- Location
- Yes.
Don't be absurd, Kage Bunshin is much easier.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Why would this be required?
Don't worry, we're ninja. I'm sure we'll have a precious loved one die in front of Hazo at some point in his life, cross your fingers.
Jokes aside, we also have to note that while the IN has been cultivated and developed by the Kurosawa for generations, it's still a weaker offshoot of the sharingan. There's always a possibility that the "Mangekyo" Iron Nerve is actually unlocking the Sharingan.
It could also have been cultivated enough, or far enough from Uchiha blood at least, to be it's own thing. Generally you keep the abilities you had in the previous variation of the Sharingan along with the new ones, so a Mangekyo Iron Nerve also shouldn't downgrade Hazo at all, except for maybe needing to learn how to turn it off or deal with it if it's always on, but that would be a temporary inconvenience.
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- Location
- Europe
It would be hilarious if that worked.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Mmmm, consider what the 'self-focused' version of witnessing someone close to you die would be. I personally think that the Mangekyou Iron Nerve doesn't really exist in the first place, because the QMs are already perturbed about how powerful the regular Iron Nerve ended up, but if it does exist then there's probably a reason why we haven't heard of any ninjas with it.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Of course, like many Bloodline Limits, it's possible that nobody's seen it and lived to tell the tale. Mangekyō, even if they even exist in this setting in the first place, would have to be very rare because the means of acquiring them is stupid, and given the Sharingan's primary power is technically genjutsu, and that different people get different powers (cf. Kakashi and Obito's counterpart abilities, or Shisui's "rewrite somebody else's core beliefs every ten years"), and also that the Mangekyō lets you set people on fire by looking at them...
Edit: Oh, hell, you've just made me recall the Sasuke/Itachi fight. The one in which Sasuke escapes Amaterasu by running in an arc because one of the world's greatest shinobi can't lead a moving target with his eyes.
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So, Sharingan + Iron Nerve?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
No, just the Sharingan.
I don't think Iron Nerve users can evolve the Sharingan and keep the Iron Nerve.
However, this says nothing about transplants. Por que no los dos...
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
If it existed and if you had to die to acquire it, you could do the near death thing. Take a poison that mimics death and brings someone to the brink and then revive them, so they are technically dead for a few moments.
Awfully risky with primitive medicine, but maybe a mednin could make it more workable if they can do things like restart a stopped heart.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
That's the most likely yeah
Odds are Sharingan users already have access to the potential uses the IN does. IN has always felt more like a dilluted bloodline of the Sharingan, and the fact it still holds up strong says a lot about the original bloodline it comes from. The Uchiha were considered a powerful clan for a reason. Though that does bring up something worth thinking about, Is Hazo, being part of the purest branch of family's bloodline, affected by the same emotional quirks as his cousins? If so is that where his empathy comes from, some enhanced form of love, and if he is how much of his character would change if that love was ever warped into hatred?
He probably isn't and Uchiha might not even work like that in MfD but it would pretty interesting to see if true.
Besides that there probably is some high level use of IN we're not aware of that doesn't pertain to seals. Hazo's old clan saw themselves as frontliners, there has to be something that feeds that clan pride.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
If you're near death but come back, did you ever really die in the first place?
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Depends on definitions, really. In any case, the theory is that the near death is the shock to the system necessary to trigger the change in the power. If it works that way, which we have no guarantee or even evidence of.
Since the Iron Nerve is inwardly focused, perhaps it's an inward version of the illusion power of the Sharingan? The ability to create detailed inner mindscapes that feel and act completely real, useful for training or modeling what to do in a given situation by trying many different approaches or for recreation or mental escape from unpleasant circumstances to retain one's sanity, or even to entrap intruding telepaths.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
You might like this fic. Sasuke Uchiha and the Power of Lies, by Emerald Ashes (person who wrote the Seventh Horcrux, another comedy gem.)
Here's a sales pitch:
A fairly apt description given by one of the comments:
The first chapter has Kakashi explaining to Sasuke that the Sharingan doesn't actually grant any of those bullshit legendary powers. It's just really, really good at genjutsu and lets you see clearly. Thus, its strength is derived from the fact that people believe it actually can do all this bullshit, so they don't think to check for genjutsu.
(They then go on to talk about genjutsu users a bit and how one should never specialize in just genjutsu. Sakura asks "What about Kurenai?" and Kakashi responds "What? Kurenai doesn't use genjutsu, she uses the Mokuton." The levels of insanity only tend in the upwards direction from there. )
The first chapter has Kakashi explaining to Sasuke that the Sharingan doesn't actually grant any of those bullshit legendary powers. It's just really, really good at genjutsu and lets you see clearly. Thus, its strength is derived from the fact that people believe it actually can do all this bullshit, so they don't think to check for genjutsu.
(They then go on to talk about genjutsu users a bit and how one should never specialize in just genjutsu. Sakura asks "What about Kurenai?" and Kakashi responds "What? Kurenai doesn't use genjutsu, she uses the Mokuton." The levels of insanity only tend in the upwards direction from there. )
I believe "the Mangekyou Iron Nerve is just the Sharingan" because it fits with the same Pokemon-esque evolution of bloodlines into better bloodlines that already happens in the Sharingan-Rinnegan family tree in canon.
This would fit in with some mechanical interpretations of how the IN would possibly morph into another bloodline. There is still that "death saving throw" thing , and I can't think of a better time for you to have a bloodline evolution.
You'll notice "You have to kill someone else to unlock the MS, so logically you have to kill yourself to unlock the MIN." seems to align with that somewhat.
Be careful now, only mostly dead is also somewhat alive, but it is still only mostly dead so there could be health complications...
[X] Return to the Tipserator Timeline.
- Location
- Italy
In short.
1)Don't fight Itachi
2)Don't let Jiraya fight Itachi
3)Let our enemies fight Itachi.
4)Don't bother Itachi.
Right?
(Because seriously, how the hell can someone dodge an Amaterasu?)
For Power...normally it's "Stab yourself for SCIENCE!", this time it's for power.
Or technically it's both?
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
If there's one thing I trust ninja to be good at, it's knowing the exact effects of poisons. There's probably something that makes someone pass as basically dead for a short time without harming them in the long term if they get the antidote in time or whatever.
IIRC, that one's actually justified in that Itachi only has one half of the Amaterasu eyeballs -- he has the eye needed to create the flames but his second eye had Tsukuyomi instead of the power to move and direct the flames like Sasuke had.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is entirely accurate. During the fight with Sasuke, it was a long, long duel, then Sasuke used his trump card (using up all his remaining chakra), Itachi shrugged it off with Susano-o, and then he finally let himself die of whatever terminal illness he'd been suppressing.
Itachi was able to move the flames well enough to make Sasuke have to dodge them. If he just looked where Sasuke was going instead of where he was, he wouldn't have needed to move/direct them. But of course, he didn't actually want Sasuke dead (or at best maimed like A was).
- Location
- Why would this be required?
I had a couple questions about some things in the setting
1) how exactly are the Sannin viewed in MfD. I assume the obvious level of awe and respect like they had in canon, but with some differences noted though. For example in canon Jiraiya and Tsunade were both so well respected that Jiraiya was offered up the position of Hokage almost immediately after the attack on the village and Tsunade was given the job no questions asked.
In the quest though, Orochimaru being an antisocial traitor is a bigger issue, Tsunade is a violent, depressed drunk, and Jiraiya's lecherous, somewhat crazy nature(even if it seems to partially be a front to manuever situations he gets in easier) is more well known and frowned upon.
With all that in mind, are the Sannin in general still seen as great heroes that deserve genuine respect, or does the village give them their dues out of respect and fear for the most part. I know there would be a range of thoughts and views that the people of Konoha have about the Sannin and they don't all agree with each other like some hivemind, but there would be some clear thread to the positive or negative. Public opinion on Jiraiya being Hokage definitely showed a lot of the village isn't into it or Jiraiya specifically taking office.
2) Is the Rasengan a known signature technique of the 4th Hokage? If so, let's just Hazo asked some one off questions at some point earlier about this, is it still a technique that's more a representative of a high level of charka control or is it just seen as a highl piercing attack jutsu? Would learning to do it help with training chakra control or would it just be like learning any other jutsu?
1) how exactly are the Sannin viewed in MfD. I assume the obvious level of awe and respect like they had in canon, but with some differences noted though. For example in canon Jiraiya and Tsunade were both so well respected that Jiraiya was offered up the position of Hokage almost immediately after the attack on the village and Tsunade was given the job no questions asked.
In the quest though, Orochimaru being an antisocial traitor is a bigger issue, Tsunade is a violent, depressed drunk, and Jiraiya's lecherous, somewhat crazy nature(even if it seems to partially be a front to manuever situations he gets in easier) is more well known and frowned upon.
With all that in mind, are the Sannin in general still seen as great heroes that deserve genuine respect, or does the village give them their dues out of respect and fear for the most part. I know there would be a range of thoughts and views that the people of Konoha have about the Sannin and they don't all agree with each other like some hivemind, but there would be some clear thread to the positive or negative. Public opinion on Jiraiya being Hokage definitely showed a lot of the village isn't into it or Jiraiya specifically taking office.
2) Is the Rasengan a known signature technique of the 4th Hokage? If so, let's just Hazo asked some one off questions at some point earlier about this, is it still a technique that's more a representative of a high level of charka control or is it just seen as a highl piercing attack jutsu? Would learning to do it help with training chakra control or would it just be like learning any other jutsu?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Ah, let's see... it'd give Hazou control over punching, making Keiko cry, and necromancy, right? (damn, OliWhail needs more memes around him...)
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
We know that there tend to be a lot of grand tales about ninjas in the general population. Can't remember the chapter itself, but I recall something about Jiraiya's life having as many tragedies written about it as comedies. The general impression I've got is that people view the Sannin as larger-than-life people (not really untrue) as well as some of the greatest champions of Leaf (because when it comes down to it they did fight in world wars for Leaf and, being S-rankers, meaningfully affected Leaf's fate in them).
We don't know much about the Rasengan, so I can only speculate, but I'd imagine it's learned like any other jutsu.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
A couple other things I was wondering about, this isn't to go into detail on things Hazo couldn't possibly know, I just want a cursory common knowledge of these things to get a better idea of the ninja caste in general
Is Hanzo of Rain still believed to be alive and running his nation? I think you might have touched on rain but I can't remember the details.
Flight is considered a holy grail of ninjutsu, is Onoki from Stone not known for flight or dust release? Not asking if they exist, just if the tshuikage line is known for any bloodlines or powers.
Is Hanzo of Rain still believed to be alive and running his nation? I think you might have touched on rain but I can't remember the details.
Flight is considered a holy grail of ninjutsu, is Onoki from Stone not known for flight or dust release? Not asking if they exist, just if the tshuikage line is known for any bloodlines or powers.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I could see Onoki being able to fly... if it wasn't something he could teach others, like a bloodline. If he could teach others then all of Rock would be flying and the world would not look like it does. If it's a fancy schmancy bloodline that he has, well, Sharingan exists so there isn't much room to complain that the bloodline's OP.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
True, though if it was known then his family must have some of the best security around. Dust release would also be a pretty big stick for Stone to have.
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- Location
- Potato land
I know I promised this earlier, but this was a very rough week at work thus far. Please forgive me, @Velorien, and may your quill be light as you spell out our doom flawless victory tonight.
Well, thankfully we're not in fiction, and narrative holds no sway over these happenings.
Man, on one hand this intimidating aura of Keiko's is clearly a coping strategy for situations she's uncomfortable with, and as such, not healthy to overuse. On the other, it's so fun to read.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 1
Well, this is more or less business as usual. Hazou has a lot of forward momentum with his anger, but rational arguments aren't enough to punch through Keiko's shell of self-loathing.
herewego.jpg
You have the power, Hazou! Tear down this wall!
Hazou Awesome Counter: 2
I honestly don't think the clan thing is that unhealthy for everyone; Noburi and Kagome are doing fine, and Mari was as well before Hana got to her. Jiraiya, in spite of how adversarially Hazou regards him this update, seems to be slowly moving from "This is a convenient way of getting what I want." to "Maybe I can have an actual family?".
It is, however, definitely unhealthy for Keiko, and it doesn't sit well with Hazou, with his experiences so clearly demonstrating that "Clan" and "Family" aren't the same thing. And Akane definitely suffered as a result of our transition to a clan.
Hazou is ultimately right, though. The clan is a tool, a scaffolding to anchor our power to. It's not an end in itself. In this, I think Hazou's mindset is very well aligned with that of the players'.
Eh, you've had one for a decent while now, girl. Just refused to accept it with your typical mulish stubbornness.
Damn. What a line.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 3
Akane turning out to have been killed by Tsunade right after Hazou makes a vow to bring her back in the fold would make for some heartrending drama and painful character growth for Hazou...
She's actually dead, isn't she? Is that the other shoe, @Velorien? You monster.
Hazou's somewhat adversarial attitude towards Jiraiya shows itself again here. It's not that he's wrong, but it's much better to include people rather than exclude them. We might have to clear the air between them a bit. Maybe reinstate "Better Left Unsaid" in a friendlier setting?
Hmmm, and here's a hook for actually interacting with the Kurosawa. I have in mind a scene, where Hazou eventually obtains a private audience with Kurosawa Ginrei, and asks the man point blank what kind of calculation led to Hana's exile. What do you think, @Velorien?
"an ambiguous ratio of instruction to personal amusement" - well, that's pretty optimistic in the sense that I'd prefer if Ami was amused by jerking Hazou around, as opposed to just going through the motions for their utility.
Hey, Hazou did very well on that meeting! Growth mindset! Don't worry Hazou, the hivemind sees and appreciates your progress.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 4
Right, need to take the edge off this anti-Jiraiya sentiment.
Ironically, Hazou's criticism of Jiraiya here looks very similar to what Keiko thought of Hazou recently - that he was sacrificing her wants and needs on the altar of the greater good. So, maybe Jiraiya isn't quite so heartless either?
Oh? Will Orochimaru turn out to be another one of Velorien's "favourite to write" characters? I can see why he'd leave society to hide out in the wilderness, The Evil One's attention is a horrible curse to bear.
In all seriousness, we must be improving if Jiraiya is willing to say this to Hazou and not be afraid of the whole world exploding within the hour. I think we got this "clan heir" thing locked down, my friends.
Well, thankfully we're not in fiction, and narrative holds no sway over these happenings.
Man, on one hand this intimidating aura of Keiko's is clearly a coping strategy for situations she's uncomfortable with, and as such, not healthy to overuse. On the other, it's so fun to read.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 1
Well, this is more or less business as usual. Hazou has a lot of forward momentum with his anger, but rational arguments aren't enough to punch through Keiko's shell of self-loathing.
herewego.jpg
You have the power, Hazou! Tear down this wall!
Hazou Awesome Counter: 2
I honestly don't think the clan thing is that unhealthy for everyone; Noburi and Kagome are doing fine, and Mari was as well before Hana got to her. Jiraiya, in spite of how adversarially Hazou regards him this update, seems to be slowly moving from "This is a convenient way of getting what I want." to "Maybe I can have an actual family?".
It is, however, definitely unhealthy for Keiko, and it doesn't sit well with Hazou, with his experiences so clearly demonstrating that "Clan" and "Family" aren't the same thing. And Akane definitely suffered as a result of our transition to a clan.
Hazou is ultimately right, though. The clan is a tool, a scaffolding to anchor our power to. It's not an end in itself. In this, I think Hazou's mindset is very well aligned with that of the players'.
Eh, you've had one for a decent while now, girl. Just refused to accept it with your typical mulish stubbornness.
Damn. What a line.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 3
Akane turning out to have been killed by Tsunade right after Hazou makes a vow to bring her back in the fold would make for some heartrending drama and painful character growth for Hazou...
She's actually dead, isn't she? Is that the other shoe, @Velorien? You monster.
Hazou's somewhat adversarial attitude towards Jiraiya shows itself again here. It's not that he's wrong, but it's much better to include people rather than exclude them. We might have to clear the air between them a bit. Maybe reinstate "Better Left Unsaid" in a friendlier setting?
Hmmm, and here's a hook for actually interacting with the Kurosawa. I have in mind a scene, where Hazou eventually obtains a private audience with Kurosawa Ginrei, and asks the man point blank what kind of calculation led to Hana's exile. What do you think, @Velorien?
"an ambiguous ratio of instruction to personal amusement" - well, that's pretty optimistic in the sense that I'd prefer if Ami was amused by jerking Hazou around, as opposed to just going through the motions for their utility.
Hey, Hazou did very well on that meeting! Growth mindset! Don't worry Hazou, the hivemind sees and appreciates your progress.
Noburi Awesome Counter: 4
Right, need to take the edge off this anti-Jiraiya sentiment.
Ironically, Hazou's criticism of Jiraiya here looks very similar to what Keiko thought of Hazou recently - that he was sacrificing her wants and needs on the altar of the greater good. So, maybe Jiraiya isn't quite so heartless either?
Oh? Will Orochimaru turn out to be another one of Velorien's "favourite to write" characters? I can see why he'd leave society to hide out in the wilderness, The Evil One's attention is a horrible curse to bear.
In all seriousness, we must be improving if Jiraiya is willing to say this to Hazou and not be afraid of the whole world exploding within the hour. I think we got this "clan heir" thing locked down, my friends.