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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Shadowhisker said:
and the dad's Madokami knows where
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He's being saved for a Post-Feathers DLC when we're properly starting up our meguca empire, in order to introduce legal and social complications for one of our founding members.

No but seriously, if we don't have to deal with him pre-Feathers, I'd be surprised if he didn't turn up sometime post-Feathers, just because that's an awful lot of time during which Awkward Sudden Relatives Turning Up can happen.
 
Yeah, the father is a non entity. Yuma's mother dated some guys, but they were as happy to see Yuma as Yuma's mother was, or thereabouts.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Why me?" Kyouko asks quietly. Yuma shifts, quiet and hunched in on herself. Scared. "Why us? The squirt needs someone t' look out for her. I don't."
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We could theoreticall challenge this. Kyouko's starved for Seeds, taking care of Yuma, I'd say there weren't enough Witches in Kasamino to sustain them, without Sabrina's help.

Firnagzen said:
"You're crazy," she says finally. "You know that, right?"

"Eh," you say. "I prefer quirky."

She sighs, digging a handful of sweets out of her pocket. She shares one with Yuma, and offers her hand to you.
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BTW, Kyouko telling us we're crazy, does that mean she accepts we're out to help, selflessly? That's crazy in her eyes., and she's giving us food.

"So what d'you know 'bout me? And Yuma?" Kyouko drawls at last, pulling you from those thoughts. "And what now?"
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So Kyouko wants to know what we know. Not sure if she wants everything, I'm sure we can spare the details, but then also wants to know what do we intend moving forward.

She's not dumb, so even if we say we're telling her just out of sheer friendship, and not in order to breach some other topic/action, she knows this being out in the open changes things.

What are we gonna do with a bombed Kyouko? Try to reconcile her with Mami? Try to therapy her? Gather all the pieces and glue her back together? Tell her her family's death is not her fault?

Are we telling them so we can meddle more into their lives, buy them an apartment and send them to school, since we care so much?

Or maybe we don't want to do anything? Which would sound like bullshit; Sabrina-pretending-to-not-know-anything is the same as Sabrina-knowing-everything?

I think we can tell Kyouko something about why we're telling them this.

- They're our friends, we've been our friends about this.
-- We don't like keeping secrets and they have a right to know we know their secrets.

- We're still figuring it out.

- KB is the enemy. We don't want it 'revealing' this at a later point in order to turn anyone against us.
-- (Pragmatic! Kyouko might even like this reason.)

I think we want to discuss and figure out what options Kyouko being metabombed opens, and whether we want to follow any of them, if any.
 
You know, I feel like Sabrina might find this song to be thought-provoking, in an introspective way. Appearing out of nowhere with no past, knowing stuff about a world that most people would think is a deranged delusion?

 
Godwinson said:
[X] Relate your metaknowledge about them. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
-[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and you'd really rather not have Kyouko as an enemy. Too skilled and mean by half.
[X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
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This is mostly great but I rather think Kyouko is asking about what now regarding herself and Yuma. Also... hm. I... actually don't like the ordering so well. And...

[X] "What now" is largely up to her.
-[X] Relate your metaknowledge about Kyouko. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
--[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
--[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and not much in between. (stress that this is a probability rather than "I see all futures!")
--[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
-[X] Between what you know about people, and the resources at your disposal, it is a fact that there is a lot you could -- and would -- do for her. What you know has been very accurate so far, and there are could-have-beens where she is-was-would-be happier than she is now. But at the moment, you've basically reached the limit of what you can do for her without her really wanting it.
--[X] Let Kyouko respond to that.

I feel that this is an inoffensive way to broach a subject that really has to be broached, given that she did honestly ask. Godwinson's vote is very general on the subject of "what now," and I do think Kyouko is asking more specifically about herself and Yuma. It's...

I brought up earlier, that Kyouko really lacks any idea that we might be able to help her much more than we have. I think this is the strongest possible way to change that, and I think that changing that is both crucial and highly desirable.

The other thing is... at the end of the day, there's a nasty parallel between Kyouko and Yuma going on in the background...

"If that's the case, then I'm all right. I've been watching my father [my big sis] since I was little and he's been doing everything to make us happy. I wanted happiness for everyone, myself included. And the first step to that was to make sure my father [my big sis] is happy." -- Kyouko, TDS [-- Yuma, PMAS]

*sighs*

That... that really has to work out. It really has to work out.

Our situation is this. If we try to convince Kyouko to want to be happy we run the risk of either doing something vile that doesn't really work long-run ("Don't be like your father.") or causing her to push us away. If we try to bring up options like "I could reconcile you and Mami" we run into the brick wall of Kyouko not wanting it for the dual reasons of believing it's bad for Mami and not herself necessarily wanting to be happier. On top of all of that we haven't even gotten Kyouko to see that we can be involved in any of this stuff -- not really, just yet.

This vote... the goal is to get Kyouko to talk with us about the topic. It doesn't have to be much -- just a hand extended and not even necessarily taken, but just touched... There are options from there. Best case the sky's the limit. Worst case Kyouko says she doesn't want nothin' and we exit next vote with something like "It might be interesting for you to talk with Sayaka", just try to point her at blue and do nothing more.

*sighs again*

Getting to this point... I made clear why it was a good idea last voting cycle, really. The manner of arriving there, last time, was pretty bad. But here... I think this is safe. And being that it's safe... it should, must be taken.
 
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[X] "What now" is largely up to her.
-[X] Relate your metaknowledge about Kyouko. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
--[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
--[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and not much in between. (stress that this is a probability rather than "I see all futures!")
--[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
-[X] Between what you know about people, and the resources at your disposal, it is a factthat there is a lot you could -- and would -- do for her. What you know has been very accurate so far, and there are could-have-beens where she is-was-would-be happier than she is now. But at the moment, you've basically reached the limit of what you can do for her without her really wanting it.
--[X] Let Kyouko respond to that.
--[X] Clarifications, if applicable/necessary/seem like a good idea: what you're already doing you're going to keep doing no matter what; all of this is entirely up to her with the exception that we aren't going to just stop coming around even if she asks.

Edited just to avoid any possibility of things ending on a dumb note. Happy new years.
 
... Kyouko, I -- look, I really don't think much of your father, okay?

Oh, yeah? And why's that?

... There was something he said. "If I can't call you a witch, what can I call you?"

Kyouko... he could have called you his daughter.
 
[X] Relate your metaknowledge about them. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
-[X] Some of it is other's secrets, some of it is tragic, some could cause tragedy, but they deserve to know it exists, even if you have to avoid or talk around some stuff.
-[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or close friends --- or both, in that order --- and you wanted to provide an opportunity and a place for them to meet on good terms.
-[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
[X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
-[X] You'll admit you don't have a clear picture of specifics though. Unless Kyouko has thoughts?
-[X] At the least, you think you've reached the limit of what you can do for Kyouko without coming to an agreement or a discussion.

I think it's important to bring up that we aren't saying everything, even if we have very good reasons, and to acknowledge that a lot of what we've seen is tragic ends.

Putting a different focus on Kyouko's introduction to Sayaka, since I think this is part where I don't wholly agree with in both versions: I think we're fundamentally doing this so that the two of them can be friends, and that needs saying. (It might use a stronger wording that we're not trying to influence the outcome, just provide the time and place, but I'm not sure how else that would be put.)

Moving a variant of Kai's "what now is up to her" to the back since it seems like a strong lead in to the next vote.

Also finished off with a shortened rewording of Kai's long section just after it (I hope that works as a shortening @Kaizuki?) but I'll admit it's wedged in there a bit awkwardly due to tiredness and hurrying to bed.

Kaizuki said:
... Kyouko, I -- look, I really don't think much of your father, okay?

Oh, yeah? And why's that?

... There was something he said. "If I can't call you a witch, what can I call you?"

Kyouko... he could have called you his daughter.
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Is it just me or, when you put it like this --- That it's his fault for doing what he did, not hers for being what she is ... does this make the whole Sakura family tragedy a lot like an allegory for a parent disowning his kid after learning she's gay?
 
The Phoenixian said:
Is it just me or, when you put it like this --- That it's his fault for doing what he did, not hers for being what she is ... does this make the whole Sakura family tragedy a lot like an allegory for a parent disowning his kid after learning she's gay?
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Considering the physical purity/impossible female standards allegory with Sayaka and her lichbomb hangups with Kyousuke in canon, this is likely one of the intended readings.
 
Hunh, I see.

In other news, since it popped into my head the moment I lay down and I need to say it before I go to sleep and forget...

I have a sudden image in my mind... Sayaka doesn't get rejected by Kyousuke or wallow and get preempted by Hitomi... Because Kyouko preempts it all and confesses to Sayaka before any of those things can happen.
 
Kaizuki said:
Relate your metaknowledge about Kyouko.
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How? Are we doing another wiki dump, a very general overview, something else?
The Phoenixian said:
-[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or close friends --- or both, in that order --- and you wanted to provide an opportunity and a place for them to meet on good terms.
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--[Q] Also, full disclosure, you totally ship them, but you're trying not to let it affect your actions too much.
 
Torgamous said:
How? Are we doing another wiki dump, a very general overview, something else?

--[Q] Also, full disclosure, you totally ship them, but you're trying not to let it affect your actions too much.
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Full disclosure, my original:

Kaizuki said:
[X] "What now" is largely up to her.
-[X] Your background knowledge... it's focused closely in on a few certain moments and completely bereft of anything about others. The best-defined moments, you even know what some of the people were thinking. Those tend to be the most pivotal, joyous or terrible. In her case, certain conversations with Mami, a late conversation with her father... a few other moments in less detail...
--[X] A number of could-have-beens, as well, and then that's it. They tend to have some amount of bearing on the present, but you don't exist in them, among other inconsistencies... you did have an ulterior motive asking Kyouko to train Sayaka -- they tend to become friends or enemies with little middle ground.
---[X] Yuma... everything you know about her boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl.
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There's one more line to the original but it ended up heavily edited. I went with Brina's stuff for the first bits instead because I felt it was basically the same thing but more general, but... IDK. Do you feel it needs more fleshing out? Cuz I can always just replace it to my version if people want that. Not like I'd exactly object.

The Phoenixian said:
-[X] Some of it is other's secrets, some of it is tragic, some could cause tragedy, but they deserve to know it exists, even if you have to avoid or talk around some stuff.
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I'm of the mind that this is implied, tbh. Thoughts?

The other change you suggested -- sure.

The shortening of that last section doesn't work at all. You omitted some really key parts outright, among other things.

[X] "What now" is largely up to her.
-[X] Relate your metaknowledge about Kyouko. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
--[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
--[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka -- they could have been enemies or close friends -- or both, in that order -- and you wanted to provide an opportunity and a place for them to meet on good terms. (stress that this is a probability rather than "I see all futures!")
--[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
-[X] Between what you know about people, and the resources at your disposal, it is a fact that there is a lot you could -- and would -- do for her. What you know has been very accurate so far, and there are could-have-beens where she is-was-would-be happier than she is now. But at the moment, you've basically reached the limit of what you can do for her without her really wanting it.
--[X] Let Kyouko respond to that.
--[X] Clarifications, if applicable/necessary/seem like a good idea: what you're already doing you're going to keep doing no matter what; all of this is entirely up to her with the exception that we aren't going to just stop coming around even if she asks.
 
Might it be useful to point out that we only see possible futures in which we're completely absent? So we have no idea how our influence ends up effecting things?

Edit: It also might ensure she still feels like she has free will which might be important maybe?
 
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blast flame said:
Might it be useful to point out that we only see possible futures in which we're completely absent? So we have no idea how our influence ends up effecting things?

Edit: It also might ensure she still feels like she has free will which might be important maybe?
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Honestly, the best way to phrase it is probably "I know your story, and some stories of how things might have gone without me."
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Lord Chungus on Jan 1, 2019 at 6:33 PM, finished with 148872 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] "What now" is largely up to her.
    -[X] Relate your metaknowledge about Kyouko. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
    --[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
    --[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka -- they could have been enemies or close friends -- or both, in that order -- and you wanted to provide an opportunity and a place for them to meet on good terms. (stress that this is a probability rather than "I see all futures!")
    --[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
    -[X] Between what you know about people, and the resources at your disposal, it is a fact that there is a lot you could -- and would -- do for her. What you know has been very accurate so far, and there are could-have-beens where she is-was-would-be happier than she is now. But at the moment, you've basically reached the limit of what you can do for her without her really wanting it.
    --[X] Let Kyouko respond to that.
    --[X] Clarifications, if applicable/necessary/seem like a good idea: what you're already doing you're going to keep doing no matter what; all of this is entirely up to her with the exception that we aren't going to just stop coming around even if she asks.
    [X] Relate your metaknowledge about them. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
    [X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
    -[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and you'd really rather not have Kyouko as an enemy. Too skilled and mean by half.
    [X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
    [X] Relate your metaknowledge about them. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
    [X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
    -[X] Some of it is other's secrets, some of it is tragic, some could cause tragedy, but they deserve to know it exists, even if you have to avoid or talk around some stuff.
    -[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or close friends --- or both, in that order --- and you wanted to provide an opportunity and a place for them to meet on good terms.
    -[X] Everything you know about Yuma boils down to her being better off with Kyouko, even if that means being a magical girl. Elaborate as best you can if asked.
    [X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
    -[X] You'll admit you don't have a clear picture of specifics though. Unless Kyouko has thoughts?
    -[X] At the least, you think you've reached the limit of what you can do for Kyouko without coming to an agreement or a discussion.
Click to expand...
 
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