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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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MMKII said:
If I edit the Hana conversation in such a way so that we are merely fishing for info instead of actually trying to debate her , would people be satisifed?
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I don't really want to do that.
faflec said:
It's not that we'd tell her something identifiable, it's that Hana would pick up on the missing bits of the story and figure it out.
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I'm not sure how she could get a missing bit of a story in which we go "We were in an engagement with enemy ninja and Mari put herself in a position where she would have died and we would have gotten away, had not Keiko interceded -- which was far from guaranteed to work, as I'm sure you know as well as I do how chaotic combat gets."
 
MMKII said:
If I edit the Hana conversation in such a way so that we are merely fishing for info instead of actually trying to debate her , would people be satisifed?

I'm tempted to []Looooore Update, but I find that the current plan will accomplish more of our goals if I swap out some of the Hana stuff and go "Literally, the very next day!" in it.
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I'd be happy. I'd rather not try to argue Hana into anything right now.
 
Cariyaga said:
I don't really want to do that.
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Okay. Why? What's the thing we are trying to gain here?

As is, I am just trying to get some info from Mom while attempting to point out that "This conversation, that we are literally having right this instant, is not in fact some stupid manipulation on Mari's part."

Thats it. I'm not trying to do anything more than that.
 
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MMKII said:
Okay. Why? What's the thing we are trying to gain here?

As is, I am just trying to get some info from Mom while attempting to point out that "This conversation, that we are literally having right this instant, is not in fact some stupid manipulation on Mari's part."

Thats it. I'm not trying to do anything more than that.
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That's easy to do. The hard part is getting Hana to believe it.
 
MMKII said:
Okay. Why? What's the thing we are trying to gain here?

As is, I am just trying to get some info from Mom while attempting to point out that "This conversation, that we are literally having right this instant, is not in fact some stupid manipulation on Mari's part."

Thats it. I'm not trying to do anything more than that.
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...Wait.

I've got something.

"OK, maybe you can read her mind. But that still doesn't give you the right to say things on her behalf that she's chosen not to. No matter how messy or complicated it might get, it's a relationship between her and me. You have no place in it."

Yamanaka flinched.

When she next spoke, her words were more subdued. "So what? Are you saying I should just stand by and do nothing while some loser robs my best friend of everything she ever wanted?"

What was he saying? He was well outside the territory of his mother's advice or his paltry imitation of Noburi.

Hazō studied Yamanaka's face as he took another bite of he-didn't-even-care-what to give him time to think before speaking. What did he want Yamanaka to do? What did he want Yamanaka to be? It might have been a selfish question, but it wasn't like he could answer it from any perspective but his own.

"I want you to deal with me as Gōketsu Hazō," he decided. "Not as Akane's ex. If Akane needs you to mediate, or to act on her behalf, you know she'll ask for it. She's that kind of person. Until then, I'd rather you got to know me as me. If you have any complaints after that, I'll listen."
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"I want you to deal with her as Goketsu Mari. Not as the person who stole me from you."
 
Cariyaga said:
...Wait.

I've got something.


"I want you to deal with her as Goketsu Mari. Not as the person who stole me from you."
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It's a good thought, but imo the analogy's stretched too far. Ino's relationship with Hazou as Hazou predated this who ex-intervention thing. By contrast, Hana has been marinating in this Mari thing for years.

Keiko was able to reframe how Hana would interact with Mari, but reframing how she actually feels...I think it'll take time.

Stuff we can do now looks more like making her feel secure in her relationship with Hazou and building her trust in his judgment.
 
I'm quite tempted to just shelf the Hana talk to next Thursday, while we (in the meantime) get some chores done over the course of a day while we make sure Mari has a decent amount of (non-smothering) support: have some people eat meals with her.
 
Langevin said:
It's a good thought, but imo the analogy's stretched too far. Ino's relationship with Hazou as Hazou predated this who ex-intervention thing. By contrast, Hana has been marinating in this Mari thing for years.

Keiko was able to reframe how Hana would interact with Mari, but reframing how she actually feels...I think it'll take time.

Stuff we can do now looks more like making her feel secure in her relationship with Hazou and building her trust in his judgment.
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It's not intending to change how she feels, but rather reinforce what Keiko said.
 
MMKII said:
I'm quite tempted to just shelf the Hana talk to next Thursday, while we (in the meantime) get some chores done over the course of a day while we make sure Mari has a decent amount of (non-smothering) support: have some people eat meals with her.
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At that point we'd be way better off voting in an interlude rather than voting in a nothing-plan.
 
Cariyaga said:
At that point we'd be way better off voting in an interlude rather than voting in a nothing-plan.
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Perhaps you are more patient than I, or something, but I don't see whats wrong with us tackling the immediate problem and shelving the Hana convo til later so that we can have more information and space to map that out. Do you think 24 hours is going to matter? The important thing isn't (Get Hana to fix Mari) its (Make sure Mari has the support she needs).

faflec said:
@MMKII Could you add a note to train that super special awesome jutsu Jiraiya's promised us? Because we need a prodding to get those specs.
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Yeah sure. Just in case we get some, I suppose.

MMKII said:
Wordcount: 391
[X] Action Plan: Munch Munch Munch

Make sure Mari eats with one person accompanying her, per meal.

In order:
  • Examination
    • Hazou is to spend a significant amount of time (upwards of two hours if necessary) thinking on what Mari said, the context in which she said it, and her motivations for saying it.
    • Think particularly on what he knows of her uncle, and of Truth Lost in the Fog's 'price'.
    • His conclusions about it don't really make her actions better, but it does explain them.
    • He may not understand her, but he stands by the words he said to her.
      • After all, he'd be an awful big hypocrite to let something like that sway his care for her compared to Kagome being... well, Kagome when he first met him.
    • Have Keiko and Noburi do this independently as well
    • Do the above AGAIN together with Keiko and Noburi as a group.
      • Purpose: Get additional perspective.
      • This is important!
      • Keiko: What exactly did Mari and Hana say to you about this?
        • It's vitally important we know.
        • We won't be mad or upset, promise.
  • Talk with Hana (OPSEC OPSEC!!!)
    • Hazou will keep in mind:
      • Be considerate.
      • Hana may or may not be biased against Mari.
    • What did you say to Mari, exactly?
    • She is not currently in a state fit to perform her political duties.
      • Said duties are extremely important, and suboptimal performance on that front would not benefit Mari or the clan, in any way.
      • Note: The onus falls on Hazou to take the reigns here.
      • To reiterate:If this is some manipulation/meta-manipulation tactic, it benefits no one.
Misc:
  • Create the Vibration-Sensor seal according to the specs that Keiko suggested.
    • If there is additional time (and Kagome clears it, etc.), change it to function in a cone, such that it may be placed multiple spots on the body to keep track of enemies moving.
  • Hazou goes to the Tower:
    • Hand in Explosives Tax (if completed).
    • Check out available seal blanks/blueprints/research notes
      • Look at every single one, trace the blueprints/notes with a finger while reading.
      • Intent: Iron Nerve to memorize it all. Just in case.
      • Every seal you can (legally) get your grubby hands on .
  • Start putting into practice the Orgy Night Disinfo Campaign (as designed by Ino).
  • Give Jiraiya the package the Oyabun gave us.
  • Get an hour or two of training in with Ebisu.
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MMKII said:
Perhaps you are more patient than I, or something, but I don't see whats wrong with us tackling the immediate problem and shelving the Hana convo til later so that we can have more information and space to map that out. Do you think 24 hours is going to matter? The important thing isn't (Get Hana to fix Mari) its (Make sure Mari has the support she needs).
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Uh. My point by "nothing update" is that we're doing literally nothing of any import even by my standards. Like, sure, we make sure Mari has the support she needs. But if that's all we do then we may as well have an interlude and do that in addition to other things during the Thursday update.
 
Cariyaga said:
Uh. My point by "nothing update" is that we're doing literally nothing of any import even by my standards. Like, sure, we make sure Mari has the support she needs. But if that's all we do then we may as well have an interlude and do that in addition to other things during the Thursday update.
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'kay.

[X] Interlude: Hana since the Keiko Intercession
 
Cariyaga said:
Also, I hope I didn't come across rude calling it a nothing-plan, that was in reference to what the plan would actually actively accomplish and not at all in reference to the effort you've put into it.
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I'll note that it does have us going to the Tower and Iron-Nerving Everything We Can Get Our Grubby Little Hands On Seal-Wise, social stuff aside.

I would consider this "Actionable stuff to do" regardless of my position on the "Fix Mari" thing.

Regardless, everyone else can decide. If not, I note that its tied and so you (or BirdDuke eventually, I suppose) get to make the deciding call there
 
MMKII said:
I'll note that it does have us going to the Tower and Iron-Nerving Everything We Can Get Our Grubby Little Hands On Seal-Wise, social stuff aside.

I would consider this "Actionable stuff to do" regardless of my position on the "Fix Mari" thing.
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While that's truuuuue... like... that's the kind of thing that could very easily be able to be put under a "misc, do offscreen" section.
 
Cariyaga said:
While that's truuuuue... like... that's the kind of thing that could very easily be able to be put under a "misc, do offscreen" section.
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And, it literally is.

I find myself fundamentally confused as to what the purpose of your previous plan is, I suppose, if you don't want this one. What did you want that to do? This plan is your plan, with that particular Misc. detail added, and some editing on the details.

Meh.


If this ends up winning /is a frontruner, ping me with emergency edits throughout the night and I'll pile them in when I wake up tomorrow (before 5-6am ish EST).
 
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