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Er. The inverse would be Solar-Flare-is-actually-Instant-Transmission, wouldn't it? I don't think we did do that.
In Jaffur's case: Slowly pushing him to be less... murdery. And hopefully getting rid of that yandere obsession in the process
Yes, keep that second priority crossed out. He's not dangerous to Kakara; he has his father as a good example of What Not To Do. Give them a bit of time to decompress and it'll be adorable.
Point Three: Vegeta will not be able to fight during this update.
I expect more verisimilitude from @PoptartProdigy than that implies. Either he's already down for the rest of the battle, or the length of the action matters.
 
Compliant Omake: Jaffur Unsealing Negaverse
That one would be a few updates back, though. :D
And Jaffur Quest?
Slaughtermoone said:
What the ****, QM? We finally had Mama Dearest in our hands, and we couldn't bear to kill her? **** this, I'm out. I'm. Just going to go somewhere else for a while. I can't even.
Bagelist said:
I never liked the Murderous trait, but... yeah. This is the place it should have applied.
Dawn Quixote said:
This is what we get for ignoring Reflection you guys.
RickTracy said:
Everyone, calm down.
*quotes the text of Murderous, with the potential mitigating factors highlighted*
This was always a possibility; if you didn't like it, you should have voted for the upgrade. As-is, I'm actually kind of relieved - it'll be a lot easier to get answers this way, and we haven't alienated our strongest ally. Kakara Best Girl.
Tombcat said:
We have literally been OHKOed. Why did we pick the fighter again?
WafflyBrilliance said:
Because he's adorable? :p
(Seriously, I'm sorry how that turned out. That was literally the worst time you could have critfailed. Also, I may need to go over Jaffur's combat traits again - I haven't had much time to test him under the new system.)
 
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Should probably ask @PoptartProdigy to be sure, though. Is my assumption about the next update ending (and Vegeta getting back into play) after Dandelor starts his attempt at breaking the mind control rather than when he ends it (whether or not it's successful) correct? Or could it just as well end after Dandelor tells us that it's going to take, say, 10 minutes to break it?
After his first attempt, and prior to any additional ones.
 
Can I just say that between Carrick getting subverted and Dandeer subverting the Lords, it's going to be centuries before any Sorcerers or Seers are going to be trusted with any real power at this rate? Like, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a major issue that almost everybody who isn't a Sorcerer or Seer is agitating for them to have them broken into tiny cells and basically put under house arrest with guards ensuring compliance because it's the only reliable counter for exactly this sort of situation. People aren't going to just forget about this without further mind whammy-ing.
That would be an issue if the current scions that solved the problem were not a seer and a sorcerer.
 
Er. The inverse would be Solar-Flare-is-actually-Instant-Transmission, wouldn't it? I don't think we did do that.
Solar-Flare-is-actually-Instant-Transmission would probably be pretty effective, actually.

Or even, better, Solar-Flare-is-actually-Instant-Transmission-but-only-if-they-look-away.

Like:

1) Get your hands up, ready to use Solar flare.
2a) If your opponent isn't looking away, just use Solar flare, then do whatever you want to.
2b) If your opponent is looking away, Instant Transmit (either behind them, or, in this fight, to attack Dandeer). Since they're looking away, they can't actually see what you're doing, so it'll take them by surprise the first time, at least.

Maybe you should also use Solar Flare even if you're looking away to make sure they don't figure out what you're up to, though.
 
Well there we go. If swinging her around isn't working after that, we can just put her back down and try something else. Or throw her at Berra.


...If we grab her and throw her really fast, do you think Berra would try to follow and catch her?

Yassss....and he might GwenStacy her when he catches her (by the tail, of course). It would be GLORIOUS.
 
Well there we go. If swinging her around isn't working after that, we can just put her back down and try something else. Or throw her at Berra.


...If we grab her and throw her really fast, do you think Berra would try to follow and catch her?
We have ways to make her not a threat. Once she is dealt with we are not on a timer and can spirt bomb and deal with everything else.
 
I suspect the three enemy Super Saiyans might have something to say about that.

I get the feeling Apra can at minimum keep Yammar tied up for a while, Vegeta is likely to be massively debuffed by losing his tail, and we can easily outspeed Berra. A quick stop to get Jaffur to the Senzu's and we could easily Spirit Saiyan within relatively short order.
 
Yassss....and he might GwenStacy her when he catches her (by the tail, of course). It would be GLORIOUS.
I really doubt that; remember that he's so far proven a competent tactician. Plus, Protector might trip us up; Kakara isn't going to throw someone at a wall so fast it'd kill them if she wouldn't normally be willing to kill them, which she isn't.

I get the feeling Apra can at minimum keep Yammar tied up for a while, Vegeta is likely to be massively debuffed by losing his tail, and we can easily outspeed Berra. A quick stop to get Jaffur to the Senzu's and we could easily Spirit Saiyan within relatively short order.
Careful, careful.

Vegeta may very well have trained his tail.
 
Well there we go. If swinging her around isn't working after that, we can just put her back down and try something else. Or throw her at Berra.
Except that'd now we have to fight both Vegeta and Berra, and thus our chance of knocking out Vegeta is gone and it's going to be much harder to get Jaffur healed.

Knocking out Vegeta/healing Jaffur and then going for Dandeer afterwards is an option. Going for Dandeer and then trying to heal Jaffur/knock out Vegeta is much, much harder.

Right now I'm convinced that knocking out Vegeta and then going for a Dandeer-flail/Dandeer-hostage is by far the best option we have, far better than just going for her immediately and significantly better than trying to heal Jaffur as well.

Since, well, if Vegeta is down and we're using a Dandeer-flail to get Berra's attention, no one will be be able to stop the Senzus from healing Jaffur, so we get the benefits from knocking out Vegeta and those from healing Jaffur.

..Like, if we compare it with both going for Dandeer immediately or trying to fight conventionally without grabbing Dandeer I think it's superior to both.

Going for Dandeer-flail immediately:

Pros:
  • If Dandelor can break the mind control quickly, the fight is immediately over.
  • Berra will have no time at all to attack any of our allies.
  • Using Dandeer as a flail will make it basically impossible for Berra to hit us, while simultaneously forcing him to focus on saving Dandeer.

Cons:
  • We've just gone for Dandeer two times in a row, Berra will be expecting this.
  • If Dandelor doesnt break the mind control immediately, Vegeta comes into play.
  • If so, it will be very hard to prevent him from taking out our allies.
  • Additionally, it will be very hard to heal Jaffur.
  • Lastly, fighting Vegeta and Berra will be much harder than just fighting Berra alone, especially since Vegeta is as fast as we are and we won't be able to use Instant Transmission while holding Dandeer.

Knocking out Vegeta, then going for Dandeer-flail:

Pros:
  • We've just gone for Dandeer twice in a row, Berra will be less likely to expect this, especially if we Instant Transmission.
  • If we succeed, Vegeta will never come into play.
  • If Dandelor can break the mind control quickly, the fight is immediately over.
  • Berra will very likely be too focused in protecting Dandeer to try to attack any of our allies, especially since we're much faster than him and can quickly go after Dandeer once we knock out Vegeta.
  • Using Dandeer as a flail will make it basically impossible for Berra to hit us, while simultaneously forcing him to focus on saving Dandeer.
  • If Berra's attention is on us and Vegeta is down, no one will be able to prevent the Senzus from healing Jaffur.
  • Once Jaffur is healed and we're holding Dandeer, we've essentially won.
  • Even if it takes a long time for Dandelor to break the mind control, we're not disadvantaged.

Cons:
  • Berra will have a very short opportunity to attack Dandelor, though he'll most likely be too focused on protecting either Dandeer (if he misreads us) or Vegeta (if he doesn't).​

In short, I believe that going for Vegeta and then Dandeer gives us both a downed Vegeta, a Dandeer-flail and a healed Jaffur while going for Dandeer immediately only gives us a Dandeer-flail and no real options if Dandelor can't remove the mind control quickly.

Going for healing Jaffur and then grabbing Dandeer gives us a healed Jaffur and a Dandeer-flail, but no downed Vegeta, and healing Jaffur will probably take more time than downing Vegeta, thus giving Berra a higher chance of downing Dandelor.

(Meanwhile, going for Vegeta and then Jaffur leaves Berra open to vaporize Dandelor once he realizes we aren't attacking Dandeer again, but no one's really advocating for that option).
 
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..Also, I've just thought of another benefit of the Dandeer-flail. Holding Dandeer (and thus hurting her) might force Yammar to come down and try to rescue her, thus giving Apra free shots at him.
 
You actually can IT with luggage, even unwilling luggage.
It's more that I we have to hold one hand on her tail and one hand on whatever non-detachable limb we're using to swing/drag her around, though I that shouldn't mean it's impossible to IT, just that't its cumbersome since we'd have to remove one hand from Dandeer every time we're doing so.

At our power level compared to hers, can we drag her by the tail at full speed without it being ripped off?
 
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and explicitly throw my vote in for the options I see that stand the best chance of evening the odds here. Dandelor & the Senzus have already somewhat mitigated the clock Dandeer was applying to us, which in my view was the main reason for immediately going after her. As such...

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
 
Can I just say that between Carrick getting subverted and Dandeer subverting the Lords, it's going to be centuries before any Sorcerers or Seers are going to be trusted with any real power at this rate? Like, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a major issue that almost everybody who isn't a Sorcerer or Seer is agitating for them to have them broken into tiny cells and basically put under house arrest with guards ensuring compliance because it's the only reliable counter for exactly this sort of situation. People aren't going to just forget about this without further mind whammy-ing.

Conversely, the overwhelmingly popular Scions are respectively a Seer and a Sorcerer. In some ways that distrust may be necessary to avoid deification of the classes.

… also it abruptly crosses my mind that the reason Jaffur wouldn't want to go to his mother over Sorcery stuff may well be rooted in that mad 'all other sorcerers are my enemies' thing Dandeer had...
 
Hey Poptart, any chance of getting those Negaverse posts formalized as Canon Omake? I'm not even certain I'd mind if Dandeer got one of the bonuses from it.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
 
It's more that I we have to hold one hand on her tail and one hand on whatever non-detachable limb we're using to swing/drag her around, though I that shouldn't mean it's impossible to IT, just that't its cumbersome since we'd have to remove one hand from Dandeer every time we're doing so.

At our power level compared to hers, can we drag her by the tail at full speed without it being ripped off?
Depends on how fast you accelerate.
 
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