Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Madoka witched out bizarrely quickly in the loop where she became Krimhild Gretchen, Destroyer of Worlds, for reasons that aren't made clear. I'd rather not gamble the survival of the human race on whether or not we'll be able to clean her gem fast enough or frequently enough. And it's doubtful whether Homura could ever accept the idea of a contracted Madoka.
Also, I want to deny Kyubey the huge payday he's expecting to get from her just to spite the rat bastard.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Not getting into Wraith Arc, which Firn can't explicitly confirm as canon to PMAS without telling us if this is pre or post Rebellion, Firnagzen has a general real policy of going well out of his way to make PMAS consistent with expanded PMMM lore.
And while it doesn't focus on it like Wraith Arc, Homura's Revenge does note that the timelines Homura leaves continue after her.
What makes you think they're unsaveable? Madoka made a "everything can be fixed" wish, so we know that Sabrina (and others, working together) can save them too. Why should we be satisfied until we fix things on an equal scale as Madoka did?
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DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Bring all the other Doka's to this verse
Homura: Army of Madoka O. O
To the White Forest pt. 21
Homura doesn't know. She couldn't know, and that's... something you can work with.
She hates herself. Homura hates herself.
That once upon a never, where Homura Witched out. She had her Familiars, and then she had her Clara dolls. The reflections of her self, who called her Good-For-Nothing. Good for nothing, because she's made it a goal since that first loop to save Madoka. And yet, for all she's done and for all she's sacrificed, she hasn't done anything more than she did when she was a pig-tailed civilian with a heart condition.
And here you are, doing everything she Wished she could do. But leaving that aside... she hates herself for everything she's done to Madoka. And for Madoka. And everything in relation to what she's done about Madoka. If you had to guess, she blames herself for failing Madoka, for hurting Madoka, because it's her fault. If she didn't loop, Madoka wouldn't be suffering, but she is, because she's selfish, and she can't let go of Madoka.
A paradox. She wants to protect Madoka, but believes she's selfish for causing Madoka to suffer in her attempts to do so. She believes Madoka ought to be divorced from everything to do with magic, but she's protecting Madoka because Madoka asked her to.
What a mess.
You blow out the breath you didn't realise you were holding, and smile at Homura. "She dreams of you as her hero," you repeat with quiet emphasis. "She recognises you, when you show up at school... you must have noticed that. And not only that, what she picks up from those dreams, those impressions and instincts? They drive her to trust you, and get closer to you."
"She's wrong," Homura whispers. "That's- that's wrong. It- that shouldn't-"
"Hey," you say, pulling Homura into a hug again. "Homura, it's OK. It's OK."
She resists, a little, but slumps bonelessly against you a second later. You hug her close. At the end of the day, she's human, however much she tries to reject it. Human contact is comforting, and that's what she needs right now.
"She doesn't think you're a failure," you murmur. "Her dreams are... sketchy, and she doesn't get that much out of them. But from what she knows, she trusts you, Homura."
"She- how?" Homura whispers into your shoulder. Quiet and soft, nearly inaudible even in the dead silence of her timestop.
"How do I know this?" you murmur. "Well, beyond my metaknowledge... beyond the fact that she's a good person, she does trust you implicitly. She recognised you, on some level, from the very first moment you meet every loop, right? And she's asked you if you'd met before, and she's turned to you for help. It's... instinctive, for her."
Homura makes a very small noise, curling up against your hug. You can feel her shaking her head, mouthing something wordlessly against your shoulder, and you can feel your heart breaking for her. Gently, you cleanse her Soul Gem, and your own, just to be sure.
You let her recover, rubbing her back in a slow, soothing circle. Some small part of you is tempted to braid her hair, two large pigtails. It seems the thing to do, but then again, probably not. You let her have the time to regroup, as much as she needs. Here, under the aegis of her power, you have all the time she could ever need.
You look at Mami, letting the sight calm you. Even with that look of worry on her face, even with the colour-drained freeze of Homura's timestop, just looking at her still helps you to settle yourself. You've got a plan to help Homura work through this, to prop up her sense of self-worth and maybe help her hate herself a little less.
And you're banking it all on Homura's love of Madoka.
It's not romantic love, not on Homura's part. Not yet. She's scared, and traumatized, and hurting still. She's been hurting for years, and you don't think she could conceive of it. But she's been fighting for Madoka for all those years, out of love.
"It's just little bits and flashes," you murmur. "And despite that, she knows on some level you're fighting for her. You're not hurting her - you know her, right? If you were, she'd avoid you. But she thinks of you as a friend, as someone to be trusted, because you're making progress. You're making sure she doesn't get tricked again."
"She's wrong," Homura whispers, the words agonized and raw. "She- she shouldn't, I- I failed-"
"No, Homura," you say. "No, she's right to trust you. Without you, none of this would be possible. Without you, Mami, Sayaka, Mitakihara itself, Madoka... it'd all be gone for good. The only reason we have the chance to fight for a better future is because you never gave up. The only reason I exist is because you never gave up. I owe everything to you, Homura."
"I-" Homura chokes on the word, shaking her head wordlessly. "I failed. I- I only hurt Madoka."
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
Homura is, at the end of the day, a scared, traumatized girl hiding behind layers and layers of armour. You've peeked under that armour, given her someone she can confide in and somewhere she can be vulnerable. And yet, box it all up, paste her facade back on, and nobody would be able to tell.
She hates herself. Homura hates herself.
That once upon a never, where Homura Witched out. She had her Familiars, and then she had her Clara dolls. The reflections of her self, who called her Good-For-Nothing. Good for nothing, because she's made it a goal since that first loop to save Madoka. And yet, for all she's done and for all she's sacrificed, she hasn't done anything more than she did when she was a pig-tailed civilian with a heart condition.
And here you are, doing everything she Wished she could do. But leaving that aside... she hates herself for everything she's done to Madoka. And for Madoka. And everything in relation to what she's done about Madoka. If you had to guess, she blames herself for failing Madoka, for hurting Madoka, because it's her fault. If she didn't loop, Madoka wouldn't be suffering, but she is, because she's selfish, and she can't let go of Madoka.
A paradox. She wants to protect Madoka, but believes she's selfish for causing Madoka to suffer in her attempts to do so. She believes Madoka ought to be divorced from everything to do with magic, but she's protecting Madoka because Madoka asked her to.
What a mess.
You blow out the breath you didn't realise you were holding, and smile at Homura. "She dreams of you as her hero," you repeat with quiet emphasis. "She recognises you, when you show up at school... you must have noticed that. And not only that, what she picks up from those dreams, those impressions and instincts? They drive her to trust you, and get closer to you."
"She's wrong," Homura whispers. "That's- that's wrong. It- that shouldn't-"
"Hey," you say, pulling Homura into a hug again. "Homura, it's OK. It's OK."
She resists, a little, but slumps bonelessly against you a second later. You hug her close. At the end of the day, she's human, however much she tries to reject it. Human contact is comforting, and that's what she needs right now.
"She doesn't think you're a failure," you murmur. "Her dreams are... sketchy, and she doesn't get that much out of them. But from what she knows, she trusts you, Homura."
"She- how?" Homura whispers into your shoulder. Quiet and soft, nearly inaudible even in the dead silence of her timestop.
"How do I know this?" you murmur. "Well, beyond my metaknowledge... beyond the fact that she's a good person, she does trust you implicitly. She recognised you, on some level, from the very first moment you meet every loop, right? And she's asked you if you'd met before, and she's turned to you for help. It's... instinctive, for her."
Homura makes a very small noise, curling up against your hug. You can feel her shaking her head, mouthing something wordlessly against your shoulder, and you can feel your heart breaking for her. Gently, you cleanse her Soul Gem, and your own, just to be sure.
You let her recover, rubbing her back in a slow, soothing circle. Some small part of you is tempted to braid her hair, two large pigtails. It seems the thing to do, but then again, probably not. You let her have the time to regroup, as much as she needs. Here, under the aegis of her power, you have all the time she could ever need.
You look at Mami, letting the sight calm you. Even with that look of worry on her face, even with the colour-drained freeze of Homura's timestop, just looking at her still helps you to settle yourself. You've got a plan to help Homura work through this, to prop up her sense of self-worth and maybe help her hate herself a little less.
And you're banking it all on Homura's love of Madoka.
It's not romantic love, not on Homura's part. Not yet. She's scared, and traumatized, and hurting still. She's been hurting for years, and you don't think she could conceive of it. But she's been fighting for Madoka for all those years, out of love.
"It's just little bits and flashes," you murmur. "And despite that, she knows on some level you're fighting for her. You're not hurting her - you know her, right? If you were, she'd avoid you. But she thinks of you as a friend, as someone to be trusted, because you're making progress. You're making sure she doesn't get tricked again."
"She's wrong," Homura whispers, the words agonized and raw. "She- she shouldn't, I- I failed-"
"No, Homura," you say. "No, she's right to trust you. Without you, none of this would be possible. Without you, Mami, Sayaka, Mitakihara itself, Madoka... it'd all be gone for good. The only reason we have the chance to fight for a better future is because you never gave up. The only reason I exist is because you never gave up. I owe everything to you, Homura."
"I-" Homura chokes on the word, shaking her head wordlessly. "I failed. I- I only hurt Madoka."
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
-[X] Relax. Comment:
--[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
--[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
[X] O&K.
-[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
-[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
[X] Everyone.
-[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
-[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
[X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
[X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
-[X] Try using Control Magic...
--[X] On Grief.
--[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
--[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
--[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
[X] O&K.
-[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
-[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
[X] Everyone.
-[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
-[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
[X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
[X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
-[X] Try using Control Magic...
--[X] On Grief.
--[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
=====
Homura is, at the end of the day, a scared, traumatized girl hiding behind layers and layers of armour. You've peeked under that armour, given her someone she can confide in and somewhere she can be vulnerable. And yet, box it all up, paste her facade back on, and nobody would be able to tell.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
One day we're going to be able to pull something like this OUTSIDE of a timestop so everyone can pile in on the hugging.
Should point out that she may have fail Madoka in past loops but yet to fail this loop's Madoka currently.
Call the relationship and work with Sabrina a fresh start.
The Vote in abeyance thing with Kure adult as bad idea made me glad you guys head off that dumb idea.
Call the relationship and work with Sabrina a fresh start.
The Vote in abeyance thing with Kure adult as bad idea made me glad you guys head off that dumb idea.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
You know, I think I am now very much in dislike of using the terminology of "slider" and "alternate universe" when it comes to Homura.
You see, far too much about Homura's magic, her symbology, is tied to time. Not the parallel universes. So using "alternate universe" to me is dangerously misleading. For one significant reason - it gives the impression that all loops are equal. Equally independent from each other. Tied only by a single passerby, Akemi Homura, and her actions towards Kaname Madokas of these otherwise independent alternate universes.
And yet, potentialbomb exists. And yet, Homura's magic was shown to be all about time. As such, I think it's better to refer to various loops Homura has enacted as "alternate timelines". This ties them all together into a single whole, into a single universe.
But what about the differences beyond Homura looping? An entirely valid question. Well, the answer is - Homura isn't creating alternate timelines. She isn't their ultimate origin. Her magic does not make her a timeline creator - no, I feel her magic is about choosing one possibility among many. Choosing it, and making it more prevalent. And for all the changes that may or may not exist between different timelines, Homura and Madoka are the ones to retain some legacies of the previous loops. And Homura is the one who focuses her attention on Madoka. Potential of Kaname Madoka is the superimposition of Potentials of all the Kaname Madokas of varied timelines.
What does it mean for us? I think if we look at Homura's looping as bringing about and making prevalent various timelines, then the desired end is probably not going to be us making one _universe_ ending well, and then going off to mend the other ones. It will be us making one timeline ending well, and then superimposing it over all the other timelines.
You see, far too much about Homura's magic, her symbology, is tied to time. Not the parallel universes. So using "alternate universe" to me is dangerously misleading. For one significant reason - it gives the impression that all loops are equal. Equally independent from each other. Tied only by a single passerby, Akemi Homura, and her actions towards Kaname Madokas of these otherwise independent alternate universes.
And yet, potentialbomb exists. And yet, Homura's magic was shown to be all about time. As such, I think it's better to refer to various loops Homura has enacted as "alternate timelines". This ties them all together into a single whole, into a single universe.
But what about the differences beyond Homura looping? An entirely valid question. Well, the answer is - Homura isn't creating alternate timelines. She isn't their ultimate origin. Her magic does not make her a timeline creator - no, I feel her magic is about choosing one possibility among many. Choosing it, and making it more prevalent. And for all the changes that may or may not exist between different timelines, Homura and Madoka are the ones to retain some legacies of the previous loops. And Homura is the one who focuses her attention on Madoka. Potential of Kaname Madoka is the superimposition of Potentials of all the Kaname Madokas of varied timelines.
What does it mean for us? I think if we look at Homura's looping as bringing about and making prevalent various timelines, then the desired end is probably not going to be us making one _universe_ ending well, and then going off to mend the other ones. It will be us making one timeline ending well, and then superimposing it over all the other timelines.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Don't mind me. I'm just gonna listen to Never Leave You Alone on loop until I have a response for Homura...
- Location
- Canada
I'm fond of listening to Into the Breach music when reading anything PMMM-related. Which fits really well, not just because the music itself is great but that the game is a time-travel plot. It even has an "Abandon Timeline" button!
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[?] Homura, Madoka is still there. Still alive. If you had failed then she wouldn't be. It would be the last time loop and she'd be dead or a witch forever. It may take longer to succeed than you originally imagined when you became a magical girl but you had to contend with problems you weren't told about too. And we can succeed.
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Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
What a cruel and unusual way to murder Homumom.
Lethal nasal exsanguination. You, gentleperson, are terrifying.
[Q] Don't you dare! My Mother is not a failure! Who the hell are you to speak ill of her, huh?
-[Q] Who is Hameru Murderface, the Terror of Megucas? You! You are!
-[Q] Now go back there and wrestle this bitch Walpurgisnacht to the ground until she cries aunt!
I can interpret the final line on two ways.
Homura doesn't really believe that, otherwise she'd have given up already.
Homura is running out of responses, meaning it's time to wrap this session up: let Homura cry all she needs to do, allow her to compose herself and have Sabrina promise her to eventually convince Homura. It isn't like we really can fix Homura in one session, much like Mami.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[q] If you can't believe in yourself... then believe in the Madoka that believes in you!
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I wish for a time when Homura is ready to recognize she's not at fault, that there's others who are responsible for all of this.
We aren't near there yet.
Once more we must comfort Homura. And then, I wonder, what if we asked to share her thoughts, what she's thinking right now? What she's remembering right now? Could we share some of Homura's pain, or learn something new? Would it help Homura?
Ultimately, in order to actually help Homura with her deep seated issues, we would need to backtrack with her, mentally, to those points that defined her traumas. It'll hurt, and we can't just do that, even if Homu would open up like that, not when we're dealing with the pillars that are holding her up.
We can tell her she can rely on others, on us at least, so that she doesn't have to rely only on herself; we can tell her Madoka didn't mean to put her through this grinder, that she wasn't herself; but would that be nearly enough?
...
I'm here wanting to tell Homura that it's not her fault, yet I go back and think she's not ready to hear that. I'm pinching the bridge of my nose here.
OK, we're not gonna win today. We can help, prepare Homura to accept she's the one at fault in the future, we just need to work towards that, and find somewhere we can pause this conversation without Homura falling apart five seconds later.
[] Comfort Homura.
-[] Give her time.
-[] Tell her she hasn't failed yet. That you believe in her. That you believe she can fulfill her Wish.
-[] But that's not what this is about, is it?
[] You can't erase the pain she and Madoka have gone through. You can only promise that Madoka wouldn't erase it, that she would rather keep going until you all find a way to fix things, together.
[] Ask Homura if she would share what she's thinking. Anything that's on her mind, she could share with us?
We aren't near there yet.
Once more we must comfort Homura. And then, I wonder, what if we asked to share her thoughts, what she's thinking right now? What she's remembering right now? Could we share some of Homura's pain, or learn something new? Would it help Homura?
Ultimately, in order to actually help Homura with her deep seated issues, we would need to backtrack with her, mentally, to those points that defined her traumas. It'll hurt, and we can't just do that, even if Homu would open up like that, not when we're dealing with the pillars that are holding her up.
We can tell her she can rely on others, on us at least, so that she doesn't have to rely only on herself; we can tell her Madoka didn't mean to put her through this grinder, that she wasn't herself; but would that be nearly enough?
...
I'm here wanting to tell Homura that it's not her fault, yet I go back and think she's not ready to hear that. I'm pinching the bridge of my nose here.
OK, we're not gonna win today. We can help, prepare Homura to accept she's the one at fault in the future, we just need to work towards that, and find somewhere we can pause this conversation without Homura falling apart five seconds later.
[] Comfort Homura.
-[] Give her time.
-[] Tell her she hasn't failed yet. That you believe in her. That you believe she can fulfill her Wish.
-[] But that's not what this is about, is it?
[] You can't erase the pain she and Madoka have gone through. You can only promise that Madoka wouldn't erase it, that she would rather keep going until you all find a way to fix things, together.
[] Ask Homura if she would share what she's thinking. Anything that's on her mind, she could share with us?
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DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's all fun and games until you realize you took one too many Madoka and have a Akemi with an obsession for clocks and a flair for the dramatic after you.
@Onmur is right, if I understand him correctly. This is merely the beginning of the beginning I think in the course of actions that will be needed to help Homura ... get better.
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Asking is a good way to counter. It seems that "saying there are lots of examples" could be a bit less concrete? We are at sitting at the oars now. The next section is where we put our backs into it.
Keeping in mind the plan we are on, let's get specifics listed? As a Near Term goal, I'd love to open a mode for Homura to feel the ability to share her pain.
Not only with us.
Sabrina looks over at Mami and feels... something that Firnagzen has clued us twice about?
Who can give Homura those feelings?
Had a radical notion... we fire up the world for a moment, and telepathy Madoka to excuse herself to her room... Ask Sayaka to teleport us right to Madoka, where we can wrap up our talk with both a improved support contract (Homura needs support, nocant'splain,plzhugnow) , and then some more timestop... with Madoka right there in the room.
Really, Madoka could be doing this all too.... except Sabrina is the one who is safer for Homura's most toxic episodes ATM.
More later!
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I rather suspect that originally, the writers' concept for Homura only involved alternate universes to the degree that any time travel story does, with Homura creating new branching timelines every time she went back and changed events. Then some animator accidentally drew Kamijou with the wrong musical instrument, and so they had to pull the "aberrant timeline" excuse out of their ass and make each timeline its own entity.
Probably just a reflection of the fact that the posters keep mentioning Mami from time to time, so she remains on Sabrina's mind.
Or that Sabrina's feelings for Mami are much like Homura's feelings for Madoka.
Or maybe that if we pulled Mami and Sayaka back into timestop right now to see Homura crying like this, they would both huggle her senseless.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
She's saying the same thing over and over. Stuck in a loop. I'm not sure what the right move is. I feel like we should keep going with the same thing? No need for a new argument, she's thoroughly engaged. Don't directly contradict her, just keep sharing things that she'll take as evidence that she didn't fail.
[Q] Really. If Madoka is Mado-kaa, <switch to English> then that means that Homura is Homu-mom.
[] She hasn't failed. She may not have yet succeeded, but she got here, and Everything Can Be Fixed.
[] If Homura had been hurting people, Madoka would have done something about it.
[] But she doesn't, right? So she must think that Homura's doing good.
[] In fact, didn't Madoka ask Homura to go back, at the very beginning, so they didn't end up that way? Madoka wouldn't ask Homura to hurt everyone.
[Q] Really. If Madoka is Mado-kaa, <switch to English> then that means that Homura is Homu-mom.
[] She hasn't failed. She may not have yet succeeded, but she got here, and Everything Can Be Fixed.
[] If Homura had been hurting people, Madoka would have done something about it.
[] But she doesn't, right? So she must think that Homura's doing good.
[] In fact, didn't Madoka ask Homura to go back, at the very beginning, so they didn't end up that way? Madoka wouldn't ask Homura to hurt everyone.
- Location
- Illinois
Das busted firn
- Location
- Illinois
This is where two needs to come in, if we can somehow manufacture it. We have to give her an out from the belief that whatever Madoka thinks, she has still hurt Madoka.
I'm on leave for today though. Need time off.