The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
[x] The Phoenixian
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
The entire parole modification topic feels very forced, unfortunately. "Circumstances" are making this happen far too early in the imprisonment, IMHO. But it seems like we are somehow forced to do this. Even if it it "just so," we should try to be consistent with our long term and short term goals.
Let me repeat, do not back away from any goals, because 'time' is finite.
First, what do we really want here? Save Oriko isn't a bad approximation. We must find the path that includes her interest among all the other saving we have in mind.
The most pressing need is about another month to let Homura adapt. We want to gently remove trauma and fear from her life. Unfortunately, Oriko became a trigger. How can we disarm that?
Having O&K as our partners is both useful and good. We want them to help others. It has been positive all around so far. The complication is the recent history of evil Oriko authored, and bestbuddy's morality vacuum. Admittedly, Kirika isn't unique in that, but it requires care.
The other pressing need is the implied suicide timer we think Oriko is running. Failing to keep that from running down inflicts a loss on us.
Sayaka's anger is a another complication, though in fact this is less difficult to answer than Homura's issues. If we were to focus on a longer term of arbitration and repeated contact, it seems reasonable that Sayaka could move to a rational position, even if she is unlikely to love Oriko any time this year. But it seems we need time to make this work too.
I propose we keep in mind that we can't solve this well tonight. Better for us to make preparations for the future, and gain on this incrementally. Perhaps we should accept "our minimum necessary change" for the house arrest.
I propose a move. Maybe placing O&K in a more stimulating environment, without full outdoor privileges yet, gets us there. We could try bunking them with other magical girls. We have at least three ways to do this.
I expect that to be effective for more than one week, in game, and easy for Homura to accept. More 'guards' are better. It seemingly removes luxury, so Sayaka might have less issue.
We should get there by solving the general case first. Less emotion likely, and much more future utility by working in this order. In fact, we were booking Anri into confinement with only hours of preparation, which IRL is ludicrous. So this subject is long overdue.
Further, we must keep advancing our Quest goals, and this means operating upon the Magical Girls System as a whole. Submerging our operating intent will make those goals slide back. No Good! We were offered additional 200 wishes in this update. Why would we therefore drop momentum?
Clarification of the concept of involving multiple other adults without intermediaries is what we must keep on the table. Family members and enabling allies are both in the works. Do not wait for that to finish.
We need to add the categoriy of therapists, not just for girls in crisis, but to buff most of us. We also need to begin using consultants, and opening more conduits for business utility. Running everything through one family is child-like. Sabrina has some really un-childlike features at times, and our stock-in-trade is using those to help. I see evidence that other poster also have strategic savvy at the level to attempt formation of our sub-culture, using the historical record as instruction.
Sabrina can fly to other cities. The obvious skill to combo with this is cold call salesmanship. Otherwise, we remain locked in a Magical Girl ghetto.
So, recap :
Move Oriko to communal housing, better monitoring, better social.
Work on Justice, as a needed utility.
Do Not Try to improve parole boundaries yet, unless Homura tell us to.
Get adult interaction. Plan now to hire therapists. Plan now for legal consultants.
And for proper disclosure, it isn't that Magical Girls don't have laws. Any nation where the girl lives would beg to differ! It is really, an issue of "can't use" due to Masquerade and the psychology of power. Most magical girls take the feral expedient of emancipating themselves from everything, the world at large is not rejecting them. Just as Kyuubey planned. Be less wrong? Kirika makes a great extreme example.
Let me repeat, do not back away from any goals, because 'time' is finite.
First, what do we really want here? Save Oriko isn't a bad approximation. We must find the path that includes her interest among all the other saving we have in mind.
The most pressing need is about another month to let Homura adapt. We want to gently remove trauma and fear from her life. Unfortunately, Oriko became a trigger. How can we disarm that?
Having O&K as our partners is both useful and good. We want them to help others. It has been positive all around so far. The complication is the recent history of evil Oriko authored, and bestbuddy's morality vacuum. Admittedly, Kirika isn't unique in that, but it requires care.
The other pressing need is the implied suicide timer we think Oriko is running. Failing to keep that from running down inflicts a loss on us.
Sayaka's anger is a another complication, though in fact this is less difficult to answer than Homura's issues. If we were to focus on a longer term of arbitration and repeated contact, it seems reasonable that Sayaka could move to a rational position, even if she is unlikely to love Oriko any time this year. But it seems we need time to make this work too.
I propose we keep in mind that we can't solve this well tonight. Better for us to make preparations for the future, and gain on this incrementally. Perhaps we should accept "our minimum necessary change" for the house arrest.
I propose a move. Maybe placing O&K in a more stimulating environment, without full outdoor privileges yet, gets us there. We could try bunking them with other magical girls. We have at least three ways to do this.
I expect that to be effective for more than one week, in game, and easy for Homura to accept. More 'guards' are better. It seemingly removes luxury, so Sayaka might have less issue.
We should get there by solving the general case first. Less emotion likely, and much more future utility by working in this order. In fact, we were booking Anri into confinement with only hours of preparation, which IRL is ludicrous. So this subject is long overdue.
Further, we must keep advancing our Quest goals, and this means operating upon the Magical Girls System as a whole. Submerging our operating intent will make those goals slide back. No Good! We were offered additional 200 wishes in this update. Why would we therefore drop momentum?
Clarification of the concept of involving multiple other adults without intermediaries is what we must keep on the table. Family members and enabling allies are both in the works. Do not wait for that to finish.
We need to add the categoriy of therapists, not just for girls in crisis, but to buff most of us. We also need to begin using consultants, and opening more conduits for business utility. Running everything through one family is child-like. Sabrina has some really un-childlike features at times, and our stock-in-trade is using those to help. I see evidence that other poster also have strategic savvy at the level to attempt formation of our sub-culture, using the historical record as instruction.
Sabrina can fly to other cities. The obvious skill to combo with this is cold call salesmanship. Otherwise, we remain locked in a Magical Girl ghetto.
So, recap :
Move Oriko to communal housing, better monitoring, better social.
Work on Justice, as a needed utility.
Do Not Try to improve parole boundaries yet, unless Homura tell us to.
Get adult interaction. Plan now to hire therapists. Plan now for legal consultants.
And for proper disclosure, it isn't that Magical Girls don't have laws. Any nation where the girl lives would beg to differ! It is really, an issue of "can't use" due to Masquerade and the psychology of power. Most magical girls take the feral expedient of emancipating themselves from everything, the world at large is not rejecting them. Just as Kyuubey planned. Be less wrong? Kirika makes a great extreme example.
To the White Forest pt. 14
You exhale, stomach twisting a little. Your mind churns with thoughts about your recent advances in your understanding of your magic. You're almost disappointed by what your enchantment does, really. There's got to be something more there that you haven't figured out yet, and you're kind of annoyed with the relative failure of the Banach-Tarski Grief duplication, too.
On the other hand, the multi-dimensional Grief is interesting. Very interesting. You should probably send in a chibi to explore - you're half tempted to go yourself, but you're terrified of not being able to return, for whatever reason. And it's kind of funny. Theoretical physics suggests that access to a fourth spatial dimension alone is sufficient to reverse particle chirality, and that is sufficient to create antimatter.
And yet, magical hammerspace seems to be a pretty common trick, and the planet is not swiss cheese with holes from antimatter detonations by magical girls of years gone past. There's something else at play there, and you're inclined to say that something is magic. It does, after all, seem to follow... gentler rules than physics. You remember the time the television turned on in Homura's timestop, but not the water, after all.
You're stalling. You really don't want to drop the other shoe.
It's funny, because you're usually waiting for the other shoe to drop, but this time you're the one dropping it and you're still stalling. Mami squeezes your hand gently, reassuring and warm.
"Sabrina?" Sayaka prompts. "Something wrong?"
"Nah, it's just that there's been something I've been meaning to bring up," you say slowly. "Well, dropping Anri off got me thinking about it, anyway."
"Yeah, go on?" Sayaka says.
"Yeah, well... I'm sorry, it's just that this is a heavy topic," you say.
"Just spit it out," Sayaka says, rolling her eyes. "C'mon, you're getting me worried here. Even Homura's worried too, see?"
You certainly have Homura's attention, a slight furrow on her brow the only thing giving lie to her thoughts. But on Homura? That speaks volumes.
"I... I've been thinking about meguca justice," you say, and try for a smile. "Just... it's a really heavy topic. I mean hey, legal scholars have wrestled with regular justice for a couple millennia and it's still not perfect, right?"
"Oh. Is that all?" Sayaka says, relaxing. "Sheesh. You actually got me all worked up and anxious and everything."
"No, I mean-" you shake your head. "OK, look, it's not an easy topic. Look at Airi, right? She was just one girl - with an accomplice, true, but the worst damage she did was on her own. And we're getting refugees and everything into Mitakihara soon. All it'd take is just one girl."
Aaaand you dodged the topic.
Mami squeezes your hand, silent support in the way she snuggles up against your side.
"Then we just hunt her down," Sayaka says, grinning and holding up a clenched fist. "This is our turf. No one's getting away from us."
"Yeah, no, you're right," you agree despite the stomach-twisting worry gnawing at you. "Hunting them down is a... solved problem. It might be tricky in practice, but we know we can do it. Hell, you could probably do a decent job all on your own, with your clones - not that we're gonna drop the entire thing on you. And maybe we could even get the incoming people to help with, ah, policing. The problem is what comes after."
"Yeah, I can see that." Sayaka scowls thoughtfully. "And you don't want to just toss them in jail."
"Heck no," you say. Your gaze flicks over to Homura for a split second. She's relaxing, somewhat, following your conversation. "I mean... no. I don't want to just leave them to rot - it's just... not good for anyone. For the ones imprisoned, or for the ones doing the imprisoning. I mean, it's not like we have an actual jail, or police, or lawyers or judges or anything for magical girls."
Sayaka makes a face. "I guess I see what you mean, but... do we need all that?"
"I think we do, if we're going to handle this many magical girls," you say, spreading your hands. "We can't handle everything ourselves. Which means professionals of some kind, or at least people who can handle these things."
"Yeah... I guess so," Sayaka says. "Ugh. Lawyers."
"I mean, hey, how else do we see justice done?" you says, shrugging. "And again - jail can't be our only option. We shouldn't be locking people away permanently or anything, you know?"
"So... what, therapy?" Sayaka asks, making a face.
"You have plans to return to talk to Airi, right?" Mami asks, leaning into your side.
"Yeah," you say. "I want to see what I can do for her. But I'm not a professional, and more people means more problems and more people who need to be talked to, and I... just can't be everywhere."
"Yeah... I guess we need more help," Sayaka agrees. "But don't ask me where to get that help."
"Other magical girls," you say. "And... I dunno. Do you think we could bring in the Shizukis? You know them better than I do."
"Are you sure that's a good idea, Sabrina?" Mami asks.
"I don't know," you say. "That's why I'm asking. I know Mrs Shizuki knows about magic already, and she seemed interested enough. I don't know her."
"She's always been pretty cool," Sayaka says. "And... she and her husband came through for us, after, you know. Because Hitomi asked, but our families have been friends forever, and..." Sayaka trails off into a shrug. "It could work. I dunno, I-"
Her eyebrows snap together.
"What about Mikuni?" she asks, voice suddenly hard.
Well.
Fuck.
The tension is an almost tangible thing, thick and cloying. Eyes lock on you, cerulean blue and amethyst purple for once united in their hatred of another. Fortunately not you, but you're the one arguing for them, here and now.
Mami squeezes your hand gently. You draw strength from the touch, straightening.
"I... did want to bring them up at some point," you admit. "I... OK. Sayaka, Homura, hear me out?"
"You- you wanted to get me to agree to all that- and then apply it to her?" Sayaka snarls, fists balling.
"No!" you protest, waving your hands. "No, not at all! I don't- I don't do that, Sayaka!"
"Then what?" Sayaka snarls. "You talk about all that justice and therapy and stuff and it's not for her? She burned my house down! She put my family in the hospital!"
"She did," you say, and grimace. "She did. Sayaka, I'm your friend, and I'm not denying that she has done you wrong." You shift your gaze, meeting Homura's unyielding glare. "Homura, you too. I know. That's why I'm talking to the both of you. I'm not going to do anything without your agreement. I just... please, hear me out?"
You can respect Sayaka's anger, and you can respect Homura's hatred. Sayaka had her house, all her material possessions, nearly everything ripped away from her by the fire. And Homura...
Homura got to see her nightmare playing out yet another time, at Oriko's hands. Just when things were seemingly going well. Oriko murdered Madoka, once upon a never. Homura's seen what Oriko can do, and built her up into a terrifying threat. It's not unjustified.
They're your friends, and you have to respect their anger and hatred and paranoia. You're willing to take the back foot, here.
"What do you want?" Homura murmurs, monotone. Blank, almost, her emotions shuttered away behind her implacable mask... but you can see the anger written in the tension of her neck and the clench of her jaw.
She's letting you speak. She's listening.
"First off?" you say, suppressing the rush of relief. That's just a beachhead, a testament to how much trust Homura extends you. And you hope you're not going to let her down. "I'm not intending to let her go. I'm not saying she should be let off without punishment."
You sigh, and meet Sayaka's eyes squarely. "I know she burned down your house," you say. "And that was horrible, and stupid, and it was wrong. In no way am I saying otherwise. But... I have a point to make here."
"Yeah?" Sayaka says. Her knuckles are white, clenched tightly into fists.
"She used her precog to ensure no one suffered lasting physical harm-" and that's as far as you get before Sayaka cuts you off at what's nearly a roar.
"We were put in the hospital!" Sayaka snarls.
"I know," you say. "And she was wrong to have tried it at all! She was doing her best to minimise the harm - you know your inside doors were shut, right?"
"What the hell does that have to do with anything?" Sayaka throws her arms out, a sharp, convulsive jerk that barely misses Homura.
"It means that Oriko took measures to make sure you didn't suffer from smoke inhalation, and it means that the fire took longer to burn," you say. "I- Sayaka, listen to me. I'm not saying she was right, or she was justified, I'm saying that she was trying to make sure she didn't kill you."
"Fine, whatever!" Sayaka says. Her voice is rising again, not quite a yell, but... she's angry. You can understand that anger, at least. "She still burned my house down!"
"And, again, she was wrong to," you say. "Sayaka, I'm agreeing with you! I'm on your side!"
"And you want to- what?" Sayaka demands.
"House arrest isn't going to work forever," you say simply. "As is, they're going stir crazy in there." You cut Sayaka off with a gesture. "Yes, it's supposed to be a punishment. But punishment is not justice, Sayaka."
Your eyes flick over to Homura, and you nod slightly.
"I'm not saying let them go or anything like that," you repeat. You want that hammered in, because if anything, it's one of Homura's deepest fears and one of Sayaka's sticking points. "I'm saying give them limited rein. Trackers, mundane and magical, maybe surveillance, maybe escorts, something. I don't know what exactly, and I'm not gonna do it without your agreement."
Sayaka sits back, seemingly a touch mollified. "Fine. Why?"
"Again, I don't want to punish them for the sake of punishment," you say, shaking your head. "They're under house arrest for what they did, fine. Let me put it to you, Sayaka: what do you want?"
"I want her to have not burned my house down," Sayaka hisses, eyes burning fierce blue.
"I know," you say. "But I can't change that. What would you accept? If they did community service under our guidance? If they paid you back?"
"How the hell is that practical?" Sayaka snaps, sweeping her hand out wide. "Suddenly money just drops magically on me?"
"Community service?" you ask. "They can do plenty of good work as extra hands when we need to leave the city."
"So like they've already been doing?" Sayaka asks, folding her arms.
The conversation lapses for a bit, Mami a warm presence at your side. She's worried, you can tell that much. So are you.
Sayaka is angry. Not furious, perhaps, but... angry. Righteous, seething... There are plenty of adjectives to use, but little enough to encompass the anger worn openly on her face and balled fists.
And Homura.
Homura is unreadable, expression perfectly blank but for the corded tension of her muscles - and she's not moving, sitting statue-still and rigidly upright, staring down at the table in front of her. She's closed off, held tight under her own self-control.
[] Sayaka
- [] Continue providing points
-- [] What?
- [] Ask Mami to calm her down
[] Homura
- [] Ask to speak to her privately
- [] Provide her with arguments
-- [] What?
[] Apologise, back down
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
Welp.
On the other hand, the multi-dimensional Grief is interesting. Very interesting. You should probably send in a chibi to explore - you're half tempted to go yourself, but you're terrified of not being able to return, for whatever reason. And it's kind of funny. Theoretical physics suggests that access to a fourth spatial dimension alone is sufficient to reverse particle chirality, and that is sufficient to create antimatter.
And yet, magical hammerspace seems to be a pretty common trick, and the planet is not swiss cheese with holes from antimatter detonations by magical girls of years gone past. There's something else at play there, and you're inclined to say that something is magic. It does, after all, seem to follow... gentler rules than physics. You remember the time the television turned on in Homura's timestop, but not the water, after all.
You're stalling. You really don't want to drop the other shoe.
It's funny, because you're usually waiting for the other shoe to drop, but this time you're the one dropping it and you're still stalling. Mami squeezes your hand gently, reassuring and warm.
"Sabrina?" Sayaka prompts. "Something wrong?"
"Nah, it's just that there's been something I've been meaning to bring up," you say slowly. "Well, dropping Anri off got me thinking about it, anyway."
"Yeah, go on?" Sayaka says.
"Yeah, well... I'm sorry, it's just that this is a heavy topic," you say.
"Just spit it out," Sayaka says, rolling her eyes. "C'mon, you're getting me worried here. Even Homura's worried too, see?"
You certainly have Homura's attention, a slight furrow on her brow the only thing giving lie to her thoughts. But on Homura? That speaks volumes.
"I... I've been thinking about meguca justice," you say, and try for a smile. "Just... it's a really heavy topic. I mean hey, legal scholars have wrestled with regular justice for a couple millennia and it's still not perfect, right?"
"Oh. Is that all?" Sayaka says, relaxing. "Sheesh. You actually got me all worked up and anxious and everything."
"No, I mean-" you shake your head. "OK, look, it's not an easy topic. Look at Airi, right? She was just one girl - with an accomplice, true, but the worst damage she did was on her own. And we're getting refugees and everything into Mitakihara soon. All it'd take is just one girl."
Aaaand you dodged the topic.
Mami squeezes your hand, silent support in the way she snuggles up against your side.
"Then we just hunt her down," Sayaka says, grinning and holding up a clenched fist. "This is our turf. No one's getting away from us."
"Yeah, no, you're right," you agree despite the stomach-twisting worry gnawing at you. "Hunting them down is a... solved problem. It might be tricky in practice, but we know we can do it. Hell, you could probably do a decent job all on your own, with your clones - not that we're gonna drop the entire thing on you. And maybe we could even get the incoming people to help with, ah, policing. The problem is what comes after."
"Yeah, I can see that." Sayaka scowls thoughtfully. "And you don't want to just toss them in jail."
"Heck no," you say. Your gaze flicks over to Homura for a split second. She's relaxing, somewhat, following your conversation. "I mean... no. I don't want to just leave them to rot - it's just... not good for anyone. For the ones imprisoned, or for the ones doing the imprisoning. I mean, it's not like we have an actual jail, or police, or lawyers or judges or anything for magical girls."
Sayaka makes a face. "I guess I see what you mean, but... do we need all that?"
"I think we do, if we're going to handle this many magical girls," you say, spreading your hands. "We can't handle everything ourselves. Which means professionals of some kind, or at least people who can handle these things."
"Yeah... I guess so," Sayaka says. "Ugh. Lawyers."
"I mean, hey, how else do we see justice done?" you says, shrugging. "And again - jail can't be our only option. We shouldn't be locking people away permanently or anything, you know?"
"So... what, therapy?" Sayaka asks, making a face.
"You have plans to return to talk to Airi, right?" Mami asks, leaning into your side.
"Yeah," you say. "I want to see what I can do for her. But I'm not a professional, and more people means more problems and more people who need to be talked to, and I... just can't be everywhere."
"Yeah... I guess we need more help," Sayaka agrees. "But don't ask me where to get that help."
"Other magical girls," you say. "And... I dunno. Do you think we could bring in the Shizukis? You know them better than I do."
"Are you sure that's a good idea, Sabrina?" Mami asks.
"I don't know," you say. "That's why I'm asking. I know Mrs Shizuki knows about magic already, and she seemed interested enough. I don't know her."
"She's always been pretty cool," Sayaka says. "And... she and her husband came through for us, after, you know. Because Hitomi asked, but our families have been friends forever, and..." Sayaka trails off into a shrug. "It could work. I dunno, I-"
Her eyebrows snap together.
"What about Mikuni?" she asks, voice suddenly hard.
Well.
Fuck.
The tension is an almost tangible thing, thick and cloying. Eyes lock on you, cerulean blue and amethyst purple for once united in their hatred of another. Fortunately not you, but you're the one arguing for them, here and now.
Mami squeezes your hand gently. You draw strength from the touch, straightening.
"I... did want to bring them up at some point," you admit. "I... OK. Sayaka, Homura, hear me out?"
"You- you wanted to get me to agree to all that- and then apply it to her?" Sayaka snarls, fists balling.
"No!" you protest, waving your hands. "No, not at all! I don't- I don't do that, Sayaka!"
"Then what?" Sayaka snarls. "You talk about all that justice and therapy and stuff and it's not for her? She burned my house down! She put my family in the hospital!"
"She did," you say, and grimace. "She did. Sayaka, I'm your friend, and I'm not denying that she has done you wrong." You shift your gaze, meeting Homura's unyielding glare. "Homura, you too. I know. That's why I'm talking to the both of you. I'm not going to do anything without your agreement. I just... please, hear me out?"
You can respect Sayaka's anger, and you can respect Homura's hatred. Sayaka had her house, all her material possessions, nearly everything ripped away from her by the fire. And Homura...
Homura got to see her nightmare playing out yet another time, at Oriko's hands. Just when things were seemingly going well. Oriko murdered Madoka, once upon a never. Homura's seen what Oriko can do, and built her up into a terrifying threat. It's not unjustified.
They're your friends, and you have to respect their anger and hatred and paranoia. You're willing to take the back foot, here.
"What do you want?" Homura murmurs, monotone. Blank, almost, her emotions shuttered away behind her implacable mask... but you can see the anger written in the tension of her neck and the clench of her jaw.
She's letting you speak. She's listening.
"First off?" you say, suppressing the rush of relief. That's just a beachhead, a testament to how much trust Homura extends you. And you hope you're not going to let her down. "I'm not intending to let her go. I'm not saying she should be let off without punishment."
You sigh, and meet Sayaka's eyes squarely. "I know she burned down your house," you say. "And that was horrible, and stupid, and it was wrong. In no way am I saying otherwise. But... I have a point to make here."
"Yeah?" Sayaka says. Her knuckles are white, clenched tightly into fists.
"She used her precog to ensure no one suffered lasting physical harm-" and that's as far as you get before Sayaka cuts you off at what's nearly a roar.
"We were put in the hospital!" Sayaka snarls.
"I know," you say. "And she was wrong to have tried it at all! She was doing her best to minimise the harm - you know your inside doors were shut, right?"
"What the hell does that have to do with anything?" Sayaka throws her arms out, a sharp, convulsive jerk that barely misses Homura.
"It means that Oriko took measures to make sure you didn't suffer from smoke inhalation, and it means that the fire took longer to burn," you say. "I- Sayaka, listen to me. I'm not saying she was right, or she was justified, I'm saying that she was trying to make sure she didn't kill you."
"Fine, whatever!" Sayaka says. Her voice is rising again, not quite a yell, but... she's angry. You can understand that anger, at least. "She still burned my house down!"
"And, again, she was wrong to," you say. "Sayaka, I'm agreeing with you! I'm on your side!"
"And you want to- what?" Sayaka demands.
"House arrest isn't going to work forever," you say simply. "As is, they're going stir crazy in there." You cut Sayaka off with a gesture. "Yes, it's supposed to be a punishment. But punishment is not justice, Sayaka."
Your eyes flick over to Homura, and you nod slightly.
"I'm not saying let them go or anything like that," you repeat. You want that hammered in, because if anything, it's one of Homura's deepest fears and one of Sayaka's sticking points. "I'm saying give them limited rein. Trackers, mundane and magical, maybe surveillance, maybe escorts, something. I don't know what exactly, and I'm not gonna do it without your agreement."
Sayaka sits back, seemingly a touch mollified. "Fine. Why?"
"Again, I don't want to punish them for the sake of punishment," you say, shaking your head. "They're under house arrest for what they did, fine. Let me put it to you, Sayaka: what do you want?"
"I want her to have not burned my house down," Sayaka hisses, eyes burning fierce blue.
"I know," you say. "But I can't change that. What would you accept? If they did community service under our guidance? If they paid you back?"
"How the hell is that practical?" Sayaka snaps, sweeping her hand out wide. "Suddenly money just drops magically on me?"
"Community service?" you ask. "They can do plenty of good work as extra hands when we need to leave the city."
"So like they've already been doing?" Sayaka asks, folding her arms.
The conversation lapses for a bit, Mami a warm presence at your side. She's worried, you can tell that much. So are you.
Sayaka is angry. Not furious, perhaps, but... angry. Righteous, seething... There are plenty of adjectives to use, but little enough to encompass the anger worn openly on her face and balled fists.
And Homura.
Homura is unreadable, expression perfectly blank but for the corded tension of her muscles - and she's not moving, sitting statue-still and rigidly upright, staring down at the table in front of her. She's closed off, held tight under her own self-control.
[] Sayaka
- [] Continue providing points
-- [] What?
- [] Ask Mami to calm her down
[] Homura
- [] Ask to speak to her privately
- [] Provide her with arguments
-- [] What?
[] Apologise, back down
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
=====
Welp.
Last edited:
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*inhales*
Well, this was kind of expected...
We can still salvage this? Right?
Well, this was kind of expected...
We can still salvage this? Right?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Too fast, too soon.
Muramasa
Best Girl
On the other hand, what else can you do? Walpurgisnight and the duration of the quest is probably not going to be that long. Would waiting another week have made this reaction better? Homura's fears are deep seated and Sayaka... actually is handling this better then I expected.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Extremely expected, and there's nothing in need of salvaging, everything is fine.
The initial outburst is the hardest part to get through, but we've done it and can now start making progress.
Respectfully, I disagree.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
We might want to consider that some things just won't happen over the course of a month.
Time dilation's a bitch, I know, but...arson won't seem like such a big deal after Walpurgisnacht devastates the city, and Homura...
Umm...actually...Homura might try to kill the Kures during or just after the fight. If she loses her Time Travel after Walpurgis, like some suspect...
She won't want to gamble Madoka on a permanent basis, I fear.
Why are we spending goodwill on getting them let out, when we'll need it to keep them alive?
Time dilation's a bitch, I know, but...arson won't seem like such a big deal after Walpurgisnacht devastates the city, and Homura...
Umm...actually...Homura might try to kill the Kures during or just after the fight. If she loses her Time Travel after Walpurgis, like some suspect...
She won't want to gamble Madoka on a permanent basis, I fear.
Why are we spending goodwill on getting them let out, when we'll need it to keep them alive?
- Location
- america
prrrrreeeety sure homu-homu isnt going to go murder crazy after the monster that has killed all her friends a million times is dead.
GiftOfLove
From the Heart
First, what a hypocrite Sayaka. You were all rawr, don't take justice into your own hands. Now you're all rawr, where's my justice!
That said, I wish people would have listened on this and stopped trying to weasel Oriko and Kirika out of their punishment. Just because we think they're cute is no reason to excuse attempted murder and arson.
But I do see the need to establish some kind of codex of laws and regulations. We should really put some work into curse or grass style enchantment. We should be able to do it. Witches can.
That said, I wish people would have listened on this and stopped trying to weasel Oriko and Kirika out of their punishment. Just because we think they're cute is no reason to excuse attempted murder and arson.
But I do see the need to establish some kind of codex of laws and regulations. We should really put some work into curse or grass style enchantment. We should be able to do it. Witches can.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
- Location
- florida
Mmmm.
were not deciding anything either way.
We feel like they have been punished enough.
We felt that way for a while because we have spent our time talking to them and learning about what exactly they did. Why they did it. As well as how they feel about it now. Which is that it was stupid.
We just didnt bring it up because we knew it would piss them off.
We also are not willing to let the issue fester until it does become a problem.
were not deciding anything either way.
We feel like they have been punished enough.
We felt that way for a while because we have spent our time talking to them and learning about what exactly they did. Why they did it. As well as how they feel about it now. Which is that it was stupid.
We just didnt bring it up because we knew it would piss them off.
We also are not willing to let the issue fester until it does become a problem.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, hey, look! I propose a solution, and it gets completely ignored. What else is new?
But I guess I'll keep trying, because I care. How about we throw some logic into this?
[X] Since we have limited resources and people to handle this, and imprisoning meguca is expensive and difficult, meguca justice has to be about preventing further harm, not punishment. We applied that principle in Sendai, and it worked well. Like with Sendai, we don't have to like it, but it has to work, and it has proven itself so far.
-[X] Emphasize to Sayaka the harm Sendai group caused over the years, and how light their "punishment" was. But the outcome was successful.
-[X] Explain to Sayaka that, as misguided and wrong as Oriko's actions were, they were done with the intention of saving Sayaka's life from a threat she didn't understand and couldn't figure out how to deal with. One that Sayaka should already know is real and dangerous--it nearly killed her just before she contracted, after all.
[X] To mollify Homura's concerns, propose making a robust Grief Lie Detector construct, and testing it yourselves. Propose using it to question Oriko and Kirika.
[X] O&K suffering real harm right now. Meguca more vulnerable to emotional harm than anyone. Accommodations must be made, for their health.
But I guess I'll keep trying, because I care. How about we throw some logic into this?
[X] Since we have limited resources and people to handle this, and imprisoning meguca is expensive and difficult, meguca justice has to be about preventing further harm, not punishment. We applied that principle in Sendai, and it worked well. Like with Sendai, we don't have to like it, but it has to work, and it has proven itself so far.
-[X] Emphasize to Sayaka the harm Sendai group caused over the years, and how light their "punishment" was. But the outcome was successful.
-[X] Explain to Sayaka that, as misguided and wrong as Oriko's actions were, they were done with the intention of saving Sayaka's life from a threat she didn't understand and couldn't figure out how to deal with. One that Sayaka should already know is real and dangerous--it nearly killed her just before she contracted, after all.
[X] To mollify Homura's concerns, propose making a robust Grief Lie Detector construct, and testing it yourselves. Propose using it to question Oriko and Kirika.
[X] O&K suffering real harm right now. Meguca more vulnerable to emotional harm than anyone. Accommodations must be made, for their health.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
[X] Everything Oriko did was, in one way or another, an attempt to commit suicide while 'helping' the world, and being locked in her house is making things worse. Cards on the table -- the same way I knew about everyone else, I know things about Oriko.
-[X] Tell them Oriko's story, hitting major points. Emphasis on things that shape Oriko's path. Bring up how her wish gave her a vision and powers that would specifically lead to her death while "doing good". Do not bring up things specifically reliant on other loops.
[X] Bring up relocating them to house-arrest elsewhere, with monitored excursions (even prisoners get time in the yard, after all). Point is humane punishment.
-[X] Tell them Oriko's story, hitting major points. Emphasis on things that shape Oriko's path. Bring up how her wish gave her a vision and powers that would specifically lead to her death while "doing good". Do not bring up things specifically reliant on other loops.
[X] Bring up relocating them to house-arrest elsewhere, with monitored excursions (even prisoners get time in the yard, after all). Point is humane punishment.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Unrelaed to my hypothetical vote, maybe propose something more general? A policy for precog motivated crime? Needs something for Homura though.
[]Community Service is what you propose yes.
[]4 purposes of Imprisonment. Retribution is not something you can make judgments on whether not it's satisfied. News travels slowly in the meguca world, so what hope do we have of using her case for deterrence? Incapacitation of dangerous criminals? She's a precog motivated criminal who lost her precog. Rehabilitation? I managed to get it through her head her powers were leading her down pointlessly self destructive paths.
[]Should I make a grief polygraph for verifying this?
[]Looking at it from the outside, from a Citizen's perspective, if you saw a government that indefinitely detains some people for Arson but not others, what would you think? So thinking as a state actor, should the penalty for Arson be indefinite detention? If not, what should it be?
[]Community Service is what you propose yes.
[]4 purposes of Imprisonment. Retribution is not something you can make judgments on whether not it's satisfied. News travels slowly in the meguca world, so what hope do we have of using her case for deterrence? Incapacitation of dangerous criminals? She's a precog motivated criminal who lost her precog. Rehabilitation? I managed to get it through her head her powers were leading her down pointlessly self destructive paths.
[]Should I make a grief polygraph for verifying this?
[]Looking at it from the outside, from a Citizen's perspective, if you saw a government that indefinitely detains some people for Arson but not others, what would you think? So thinking as a state actor, should the penalty for Arson be indefinite detention? If not, what should it be?
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
This is going better than I expected it could.
At least on the Sayaka side; I'm far more worried about Homura right now.
OK, we partially made our pitch, we've put the idea out there, Sayaka is actually thinking about it... Homura's closing off.
Any progress is good progress.
I think this is a good moment to take a step back, allow everyone else to do so as well, and concentrate on the people in front of us.
[ ] Take a step back for Homura's sake.
[ ] You won't do anything without both their consent.
-[ ] Ask if she wants to talk, talk privately, or stop?
[ ] Only go on if both Homura and Sayaka give the OK.
[ ] Mention how pushy you're being, specially bringing this up after just two weeks of imprisonment?
-[ ] Explain why you feel the need for this.
-[ ] You believe you know why Oriko is like she is.
-[ ] Offer to explain Oriko's motives, and how your actions will impact her.
At least on the Sayaka side; I'm far more worried about Homura right now.
OK, we partially made our pitch, we've put the idea out there, Sayaka is actually thinking about it... Homura's closing off.
Any progress is good progress.
I think this is a good moment to take a step back, allow everyone else to do so as well, and concentrate on the people in front of us.
[ ] Take a step back for Homura's sake.
[ ] You won't do anything without both their consent.
-[ ] Ask if she wants to talk, talk privately, or stop?
[ ] Only go on if both Homura and Sayaka give the OK.
[ ] Mention how pushy you're being, specially bringing this up after just two weeks of imprisonment?
-[ ] Explain why you feel the need for this.
-[ ] You believe you know why Oriko is like she is.
-[ ] Offer to explain Oriko's motives, and how your actions will impact her.
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- Location
- florida
Mmmm. Are there not moratoriums on these votes?
Trying to manipulate them like that. Intentional or not was wrong. We should apologize. (Thats a bad strategy to use against them anyway.)
Next up we should state our reasoning for broaching this topic.
We want to loosen up Oriko and Kirikas punishment.
Next we should explain our reasoning for setting this up, talking to them in private. Because this looks like an attempt at social combat. Rather than a respectful and friendly discussion about a thorny issue.
Next up should be... God damn. Sayaka is not even that mad guys. Its almost like Sabrina does not like it when people she cares about are upset with her.
Edit: Perhaps point out the fact that we entered a mutual defense pact with a group of mass murderers? Pfffbbblllttttt. On one hand it kind of sucks how unsympathetic Sayaka is of the harshness of meguca life. On the other hand that same harshness has a way of killing that empathy.
-[]Apologize.
-[]we want orika and kirikas punishment to be lessened.
-[]You guys dont, I know you dont.
-[]I wanted to talk to you guys about this before it became an issue.
Trying to manipulate them like that. Intentional or not was wrong. We should apologize. (Thats a bad strategy to use against them anyway.)
Next up we should state our reasoning for broaching this topic.
We want to loosen up Oriko and Kirikas punishment.
Next we should explain our reasoning for setting this up, talking to them in private. Because this looks like an attempt at social combat. Rather than a respectful and friendly discussion about a thorny issue.
Next up should be... God damn. Sayaka is not even that mad guys. Its almost like Sabrina does not like it when people she cares about are upset with her.
Edit: Perhaps point out the fact that we entered a mutual defense pact with a group of mass murderers? Pfffbbblllttttt. On one hand it kind of sucks how unsympathetic Sayaka is of the harshness of meguca life. On the other hand that same harshness has a way of killing that empathy.
-[]Apologize.
-[]we want orika and kirikas punishment to be lessened.
-[]You guys dont, I know you dont.
-[]I wanted to talk to you guys about this before it became an issue.
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- Location
- Texas
Trying to argue Sayaka and Homura into submission right now is a bad plan.
Put it all on their shoulders instead.
Ask them each to come up with a concrete list of what they think needs to happen for Oriko and Mirika to be given some more latitude, and how soon. Reconvene in a week and talk it over. Sabrina isn't go to try and go behind their backs on this, she just doesn't think house-arrest is a long-term solution to anything, and given that, they should start thinking of the actual solution.
"Sayaka, Homura, you're the two who are most opposed to letting Oriko and Kirika out. What would they need to do in order for you to be happy lifting some of the restrictions?
- Some particular period of incarceration? How long?
- Helping successfully fight Walpurgisnacht?
- Community service?
- Making restitution for their earlier crimes? How?
- Exile from Mitakihara?
- Probation measures? Tracking devices, chaperones, curfews?"
Basically, try to get Sayaka and Homura to nail down an actual concrete plan for punishment and rehabilitation, instead of leaving it at "what we're doing now seems to work, let's keep doing that forever". Then, whatever they come up with, can be negotiated if needed. Even if it looks pretty harsh, however, at least then Sabrina can go to Oriko and Kirika and tell them they have hope and a finite sentence.
Put it all on their shoulders instead.
Ask them each to come up with a concrete list of what they think needs to happen for Oriko and Mirika to be given some more latitude, and how soon. Reconvene in a week and talk it over. Sabrina isn't go to try and go behind their backs on this, she just doesn't think house-arrest is a long-term solution to anything, and given that, they should start thinking of the actual solution.
"Sayaka, Homura, you're the two who are most opposed to letting Oriko and Kirika out. What would they need to do in order for you to be happy lifting some of the restrictions?
- Some particular period of incarceration? How long?
- Helping successfully fight Walpurgisnacht?
- Community service?
- Making restitution for their earlier crimes? How?
- Exile from Mitakihara?
- Probation measures? Tracking devices, chaperones, curfews?"
Basically, try to get Sayaka and Homura to nail down an actual concrete plan for punishment and rehabilitation, instead of leaving it at "what we're doing now seems to work, let's keep doing that forever". Then, whatever they come up with, can be negotiated if needed. Even if it looks pretty harsh, however, at least then Sabrina can go to Oriko and Kirika and tell them they have hope and a finite sentence.
TMTM™
Your New Waifu
- Location
- In Your Mind-Fuzz
[X] Since we have limited resources and people to handle this, and imprisoning meguca is expensive and difficult, meguca justicehas to be about preventing further harm, not punishment. We applied that principle in Sendai, and it worked well. Like with Sendai, we don't have to like it, but it has to work, and it has proven itself so far.
-[X] Emphasize to Sayaka the harm Sendai group caused over the years, and how light their "punishment" was. But the outcome was successful.
-[X] Explain to Sayaka that, as misguided and wrong as Oriko's actions were, they were done with the intention of saving Sayaka's life from a threat she didn't understand and couldn't figure out how to deal with. One that Sayaka should already know is real and dangerous--it nearly killed her just before she contracted, after all.
[X] To mollify Homura's concerns, propose making a robust Grief Lie Detector construct, and testing it yourselves. Propose using it to question Oriko and Kirika.
[X] O&K suffering real harm right now. Meguca more vulnerable to emotional harm than anyone. Accommodations must be made, for their health.
-[X] Emphasize to Sayaka the harm Sendai group caused over the years, and how light their "punishment" was. But the outcome was successful.
-[X] Explain to Sayaka that, as misguided and wrong as Oriko's actions were, they were done with the intention of saving Sayaka's life from a threat she didn't understand and couldn't figure out how to deal with. One that Sayaka should already know is real and dangerous--it nearly killed her just before she contracted, after all.
[X] To mollify Homura's concerns, propose making a robust Grief Lie Detector construct, and testing it yourselves. Propose using it to question Oriko and Kirika.
[X] O&K suffering real harm right now. Meguca more vulnerable to emotional harm than anyone. Accommodations must be made, for their health.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Sayaka refuses to them "Kures". That's how much she hates them. She's Superman to their Lex Luthor, God-Emperor to their Chaos Gods, Brina to Sakura...
Except there are two of them, aren't there. Eh, close enough.
It saddens me a little that Kirika isn't even discussed, even in passing, like she's some living, breathing, hugging attachment to the "Oriko Question". Well, mostly because that's exactly-
No trivializing, right.
I think emotional approach won't work. Sayaka and Homura have a clear advantage here, i.e. "She burned my house down!" and "She murdered Madoka."
I don't believe we can beat that. That is, we won't get them to agree with anything from the emotional standpoint. "They can change" or "They will help" or whatever just isn't enough. Moreover, Homura can and will break up with us, Sayaka, Mami, our cute little chibis and their cute little puppy eyes if she believes we are jeopardizing Madoka's chances to survive this month. She has done that before many, many times. It's not even about Oriko herself at this point, it's about the precedent.
Well, if they weren't Sabrina's friends and fellow human beings, I guess, I'd suggest cajoling, playing on their fears, trap them in legally and/or metaphysically binding agreements, but as it's clearly not an option, I instead offer to use cold, hard logic to address both Sayaka's and Homura's points.
For Homura, well. The argument with her is obstructed by her secrets and the exact reason why Homura hates Oriko so much. I wonder if Sayaka noticed. Whatever. The only logical argument I could offer to her is that:
1) Timelines differ. Therefore,
2) These Oriko and Kirika are not exactly Oriko and Kirika she's met before.
3) They, however, are close enough that they will behave similarly under specific circumstances.
4) Like, for example, locking them up in a mansion without an opportunity to even go buy their groceries, which would make anyone cranky.
5) As it was already deduced, we can tell Homura that we pretty much know she's stalking Oriko. ( without telling anything about us or Madoka. )
6) Call it a reasonable precaution, cause it is. Say that we don't ask Homura to trust Oriko, much less to be friends with her. Instead, tell her as she obviously will continue to stalk Oriko, Oriko is lacking precog, ( which we can reasonably prove, I think ) if Oriko abuses her freedom to create some convoluted plan that could result in Madoka's death, we will hunt her down. Oriko is just a very intelligent teenager with money and a very bad public reputation, so I'm not really sure she can do that much without precog, btw.
7) If we allow Oriko and Kirika to leave the house, it will not be unconditional. Trackers, both mundane and magical, protective grids along the places Madoka frequently visits, at least passive observation.
8) And here comes a downer for Kures. They must tell us where and when they are going, in the second half of the day, for no more than two-three hours a day. It's less than what they hoped for and more than Homura would ever allow them instead of just killing them out of hand if she was doing it on her own. A perfect compromise, I say. Bleh.
Everything in timestop, unfortunately.
As for Cardcaptor Sayaka. Well, good luck?
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Prrrrreeetty sure it's possible. Not saying she WILL, but we need to recall she isn't just our friend/mother, also being an emotionally unstable teenager with a history of mercilessly eliminating threats. Deciding to clean house after the biggest threat is gone is...not likely, with good influence on our part, but far more likely if we lose her trust.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[X] Look after Homura.
-[X] Ask if she wants to talk privately.
-[X] Ask what she wants to do.
[X] Reassure Homura and Sayaka you won't do anything without their consent.
-[X] Continue with their permission.
[X] Explain why you feel the need for this. Oriko's motives.
-[X] Suicidal feelings, a Wish made under such feelings.
-[X] The root of those feelings. The betrayal from Oriko's father, family, and the people.
-[X] How your actions will impact her.
[X] Propose relocation.
[X] Bring up Oriko confessing her crime to the Mikis.
-[X] Ask if she wants to talk privately.
-[X] Ask what she wants to do.
[X] Reassure Homura and Sayaka you won't do anything without their consent.
-[X] Continue with their permission.
[X] Explain why you feel the need for this. Oriko's motives.
-[X] Suicidal feelings, a Wish made under such feelings.
-[X] The root of those feelings. The betrayal from Oriko's father, family, and the people.
-[X] How your actions will impact her.
[X] Propose relocation.
[X] Bring up Oriko confessing her crime to the Mikis.