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And yet, you are complaining that it doesn't fit the real world, and to support this you mention having examples from fiction. And were not the first to do so.

Let me be perfectly clear: If you want to talk about how this statement applies to fictional universes I'm not going to argue because that complaint is just plain silly and I don't care.

I am complaining that it does not fit the real world because people keep using it as if it applies in the real world. My position that it is an absolute that does not apply in the real world is consistent with me saying it doesn't apply to the real world. My position that it doesn't apply to the real world, logically, is not consistent with other people's positions that it does apply on the real world.

And I have clarified, twice now, that I have examples both real and fictional. I do not understand the overfixation on the "and fictional" part. For one, this quote is often used to analyse fiction just as much as it is used to analyze reality, (I disagree on both cases), an in fact, the quote that prompted this discussion was an analysis of the fictional dhar. So I have to cover all bases because, in a public forum, I am talking to more than one person, even if I am replying to one. For another, I never said I had ONLY fictional examples, so even if we agree that fictional examples are all invalid to this discussion, this does not at all invalidate any of my points, nor does it really matter to the point of the discussion that this kind of binary is, overall, either a pithy way to say someting obvious in a cynical way, or completely silly.
 
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I was really tempted by Polyglot the last time it was an option, so I'm voting for it now.

[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
 
Righto, I'm getting my next vaccine shot tomorrow morning, so I'm getting in a batch of typo-hunting before that knocks me on my ass, assuming my reaction to the first dose is anything to judge by. This goes up until the Battle of the Caldera.

Turn Twenty-Three Results Part One
faint wisps of smoke emanates constantly
emanates -> emanate
This should allow enough power for perhaps ten minutes of operation twice a day as the Ulgu waxes at dawn and dusk, and the Ulgu-rich environment of the room below altered slightly to act as a battery, and is able to retain at least a couple of hours of continuous operation.
altered -> is altered

Turn Twenty-Three Results Part Two
Anuvongeni: they who ends raids
ends -> end
The Priests spends some time
Priests -> Priest

Turn Twenty-Three Social
In the Hall of Oaths, a silent, solemn gathering watches a Cleric of Grimnir converse solemnly with a Dwarf
Repetition of "solemn"
It's more of a symbol of the Oath they intend to take, to show the Clan they think they've dishonoured that he intends to set things right.
Pronoun inconsistency: "they" for most of the sentence, "he" at the end.
Many a young lad has seen sense and washed it out before they made their way to the local Temple of Grimnir.
Similar to above, here we say "lad," but then use the gender-agnostic "they" rather than "he".
a counterrebuttal from Esbern and Seija that quite thoroughly puncture the debate
puncture -> punctures
how have the rest of you kept yourself busy
yourself -> yourselves
Orks -> Orcs

Turn Twenty-Four Results Part One
the location of your recent joints with Gretel
joints -> jaunts
your growing collection of Skaven curiousities
curiousities -> curiosities
as always his thankyou sound awkward
sound -> sounds
you're familiar enough with him to recognize that he just become significantly more tense
he just become -> "he just became" or "he has just become"

Turn Twenty-Four Results Part Two
Clan Mors situation, you discover
Mors -> Mors'
the beginnings of a lexicon starts to come together
beginnings -> beginning (or starts -> start)
thick grey clouds of billowing flog that flickers between real and unreal,
flog -> fog
flickers -> flicker

Turn Twenty-Four Social
and a no mark-up for payment
a no -> no
as soon as the attack begun
begun -> began
I'm worried that father would agree
father -> Father
the gyrocarriage flies to you Ubersreik
to you -> you to
It speaks in a surprisingly normal and very familiar voice, "dead-ends
dead -> Dead
which he apologizes for as length
as -> at

Turn Twenty-Five Results Part One
further investigation and careful mapping reveals the underlying logic.
reveals -> reveal
you and Johann prepare to taking as much advantage as you
taking -> take
the main source of light are a pair of enormous glass globes
are -> is (or source -> sources)
and more and more shouts and shattering fills your ears
fills -> fill
Infighting and the stench of chemicals spreads from the Grand Forge
spreads -> spread
 
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Pedantry: Fan-Eltharin is spoken by the Asrai of Athel Loren. The Eonir speak Yen-Eltharin.
Further Pedantry only because I respect the artform that is Pedantry and your skilled use of it: I partially recognized my mistake and made an edit to ask if it was Fan or Yen Eltharin.
Oh no, I was making a reference to the "planning the lives of your chickens before you even know if you have eggs" joke.

You're suggesting the possibility of writing an Anoqeyan guide when we don't know it, don't know if we can learn it, and don't even know for sure if the Eonir know it.
Okay my mistake but I am still maintaining my position on the academic value of chickens! I am telling you somewhere in the damn forest their is a chicken viewing area the Amber brotherhood keeps secret so nobody laughs at them for being uncivilized even harder then they already do!
 
The Grand Theogonist's use of it is the ideal application: it's kept entirely under lock and key and only single-digit numbers of extremely trusted people have any idea it exists, and it's broken out only when the alternative is something like Emperor Vlad. The way to implement this is to continue what the van Hals have been doing for generations: pass it on to a single trusted person when Mathilde dies. You absolutely don't distribute it widely. Because if it does get distributed widely, it will leak out, and then you end up with everyone with a scrap of magical ability and a score to settle raising their own necromantic army with the First Secret and everyone on the side of good whacking that army back down with the Second Secret and everywhere that happens, which is everywhere, becomes a Dhar-blasted wasteland.
Fallout-Steampunk Mathilda.
Which is pretty damned cool, as she got all the techo-weapon and the magic-aether down pat. All she need is a cool round black shades.

Speaking of which, in the events of her demise is there a default will to whom her effects, secret and top secret will be granted? She manage to amass a great deal of wealth, which will and can be contested by the lawyers, but there's no doubt that her magical effects will be taken by the Greys.

If it's our old master, we can relly on him to be discreet about our top secret book, but if it's any other Magister ( or even lord magister), it's a 50-50 if the book will be use (good or bad) or get burned for good
 
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] LESSON: Theologian
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot

adding polygot to my vote because I dislike Collegiate.
 
Speaking of which, in the events of her demise is there a default will to whom her effects, secret and top secret will be granted? She manage to amass a great deal of wealth, which will and can be contested by the lawyers, but there's no doubt that her magical effects will be taken by the Greys.

If it's our old master, we can relly on him to be discreet about our top secret book, but if it's any other Magister ( or even lord magister), it's a 50-50 if the book will be use (good or bad) or get burned for good

Character Death
If Mathilde dies, the thread will have the opportunity to retroactively write her will, deciding on the distribution of her relics, treasures, and outstanding favours.

Where Mathilde's notes will end up after her death will be a part of her posthumous retroactive Will.

The thread decides who gets what. I'd assume that even if something can't be listed openly on a document, things can be arranged discretely.
 
So, uh, you've mentioned this particular tidbit about the next OP being already written up and ready to go a few times before - out of curiosity, is said OP a living document? (i.e. has Mathilde yet managed to have enough of an impact on the world that you had to edit the next OP for worldbuilding consistency?)

If not, then I definitely have a new goal for Mathilde to shoot for. /hubris

I'm avoiding giving details about the next quest. 'I want this quest to end so we can play the next one because that one sounds better to me' is a thought I don't want anyone to be able to have, and a suspicion I don't want anyone to be able to have of others.

Legit question. Has the thread ever pushed forward on something after a "try it and find out," from Boney?

A few times. It doesn't always carry the same tone, it can just mean 'the result can't be known in advance, so the way to get an answer to this question is to do it'.
 
Have you ever heard the phrase "what have you done for me lately?" This is a fairly straightforward concept. Gratitude is fleeting and a dead martyr is always more popular than a live politician.

Also, anyone using fictional examples to argue about the truthfulness of a real life phrase needs to back up a step.

Real life does not have anything like clear cut heroes, because it is messy like that. You are as likely to find that the 'hero' you are talking about was made a dead martyr after the fact to support some cause. So the question of can you die a hero of old age is answered 'who is writing the story and what is in it for them'. Also even if one posits that heroism fades with time that does not make you a villain it just makes you 'not a hero' . It is not a dual thing.
 
This metadiscussion about the concept of heroism has gone quite some distance from being on-topic for this thread. Let's wrap it up or take it elsewhere.
 
This metadiscussion about the concept of heroism has gone quite some distance from being on-topic for this thread. Let's wrap it up or take it elsewhere.

Ok, fair enough it is pretty off topic, especially to Mathilde who does not seen to have much of an opinion on her own heroism other than instrumental. Actually that is an interesting point, for someone with as many accolades as she has gathered Mathy does not seem to grave approval of many so much as that of those closest to her. It is about headpats not cheers, she does not even know what to do with her newfound fame in Vlag for instance. Part of me wonders what this mix of modesty and desire for recognition looks like from the outside.
 
Fallout-Steampunk Mathilda.
Which is pretty damned cool, as she got all the techo-weapon and the magic-aether down pat. All she need is a cool round black shades.

Dangit now that would be a cool post-End Times quest!

To the town of Nachthafen
Rode a witch one fine day
Hardly spoke to folk around her
Didn't have too much to say
No one dared to ask her business
No one dared to make a slip
'fore the stranger there among them
Had a staff of mistery on her hip [Alternatively dawi iron :coolbeans:]
Staff of misteryyyy on her hip!

...

It was early in the morning
When she rode into the town
Came riding from the twillight
Slowly looking all 'round
"She's a warlock loose and running"
Came the whisper from each lip
"And she's here to do some business
with the staff of mistery on her hip"
Staff of misteryyyy on her hip!

In this town there lived a countess
By the name of Gabriell'
Many men had tried to take her
and that many men were dead
...

Or something. 😅
 
Ok, fair enough it is pretty off topic, especially to Mathilde who does not seen to have much of an opinion on her own heroism other than instrumental. Actually that is an interesting point, for someone with as many accolades as she has gathered Mathy does not seem to grave approval of many so much as that of those closest to her. It is about headpats not cheers, she does not even know what to do with her newfound fame in Vlag for instance. Part of me wonders what this mix of modesty and desire for recognition looks like from the outside.
I think one of our later chats with Horstmann gave us a pretty good look at what Mathilde's modesty looks like from the outside:
"There's a line for their history books. 'The Mathilde Age: She liked us, so she made the world a better place for us'." You roll your eyes at his teasing, but can't help smiling. "Why do you like them? Dwarves aren't exactly fans of magic."
 
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[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
[X] DIPLO: Mentor

I don't really have a preference for the lesson, but I have very much enjoyed dealing with other wizards.
 
Eh... Horstman was trying to be complementary there, that is not I think the best objective perspective.
It's not about how Horstmann sees Mathilde, but how Horstmann thinks the world is going to see Mathilde's actions.

She talks about making the world better for Dwarfs as if it's a small thing. But if she succeeds and does make the world better (which admittedly, she already did), the dwarfs might see it as "The Mathilde Age".

Maybe tongue in cheek. But if we look at Vlag, I don't think it's so far out there as to be implausible.
 
It's not about how Horstmann sees Mathilde, but how Horstmann thinks the world is going to see Mathilde's actions.

It's how Horstman thinks he should say the world sees Mathy's actions in order to get on her good side. He was trying to be flattering so not really even a wholly trustworthy measure of what he thinks, never mind the rest of the world. The only true outside pespective we had of Mathy ws her scarring the daylights out of that noble envoy after the hiatus without meaning to.
 
Mathilde never really gets to make a first impression in a vacuum. People that don't know Wizards are comparing her to what they think they know about Wizards, and people that do know Wizards are comparing her to stereotypes about Grey Wizards. That's probably at least part of why she values the opinion of people who already know her a lot more than she does the opinions of strangers.

That said, she was rather chuffed about the Dammerlichtreiter thing.
 
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