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But then, that quote makes no sense.

There are tons and tons of old heroes. Sometimes they go bad, yes, and other times they become undesirable for the political system despite being heroic, but there are a ton of possible outcomes I can find, and which have happened either rl or in fiction, where an either used this way makes no sense.

And that is ignoring the fact that some people are controversial,heroes to some, villains to others, complicating things even further and turning this quote into something entirely stupid, rather than, well... a profound sounding thing that is less cynical than it really sounds.
Have you ever heard the phrase "what have you done for me lately?" This is a fairly straightforward concept. Gratitude is fleeting and a dead martyr is always more popular than a live politician.

Also, anyone using fictional examples to argue about the truthfulness of a real life phrase needs to back up a step.
 
Have you ever heard the phrase "what have you done for me lately?" This is a fairly straightforward concept. Gratitude is fleeting and a dead martyr is always more popular than a live politician.

Also, anyone using fictional examples to argue about the truthfulness of a real life phrase needs to back up a step.

I mean, some people and politicians think like that, yes, but for a lot of people this wasn't necessarilly the case? I fear posting examples here, because they are by definition tad recent, but I have a few people who were recognised as heroes until death , or, in some cases, were recognised as heroes making them inconvenient for some governments, imprisoning them... but still keeping their recognision later, after being released.

Also, funny that you complain about using fictional examples while defending a quote said by a fictional character in a very hero vs villain centric setting. I am capable of using fictional examples, yes, but the phrase is fictional too, no serious analyst or wise philosopher wrote it,nor "old and tested" worldy wisdom, it was a quote said by a villain in a blockbuster, made to sound pithy and to fit the story, but other than that..
 
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So, not trying to 'expert' this (I was only very, very low on the totem pole)

but I was involved with politics for a while with lobbying: and there really is a difference between a current, active relationship and old/inactive one.

if Group B is not currently and actively trading favours or working on the same side on a piece of legislation, then group B not useful for whatever is currently going down in the Kings court or Electer meet. then Group A can't help Group B over the interests of Group C. even if group B is an old friend of group A.

Group C is helping them keep Group D from passing a law that would later help them pass a few more laws down the line to give marienburg the right to buy emprie land.


"what have you done for me lately?" is not actually about fleeting gratitude, it's a comment about how there is limited time and resources you can give others while fighting your own battles, so you do have to think about how likely/if you will get a return for your investment.

if that person is actively scratching your back, then that's high chance for return just from them being around and doing well: because you can then ask them for help later.

if that person is known to go inactive for a long time, then the chance is low: so you want to know what your going to get for your help beforehand in case they disappear again and are not around to return the favour when you need it.
 
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Legit question. Has the thread ever pushed forward on something after a "try it and find out," from Boney?
There was once a question as to whether the Rune of Superior Skill on Mathilde's sword would stand up against a rune-negating enemy. The QM told the thread to try it and find out. About a year and a third later, the thread decided to pit Mathilde against a rune-negating Chaos Champion in the midst of a beari-cane, and indeed, the questers found out.
 
There was once a question as to whether the Rune of Superior Skill on Mathilde's sword would stand up against a rune-negating enemy. The QM told the thread to try it and find out. About a year and a third later, the thread decided to pit Mathilde against a rune-negating Chaos Champion in the midst of a beari-cane, and indeed, the questers found out.
It was a friendly bearicane, so it made sense :)
 
I'd like to point out that the fight with the chaos champion was calculated. We knew it was dangerous, but we also knew we had a witch and several gods on our side as reinforcements.

Okay, it cut a little close, but if those reinforcements hadn't existed, we wouldn't have attacked.

Perfectly calculated victory.
 
Oh yeah Bearicane. I voted yes from "all in bitches!" and a more calculated "wait, how do we keep this under wraps? And maybe we shouldn try returninf to Kislev with the same number of Ice Witch we left with."
 
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[X] DIPLO: Dawri

[X] LESSON: Mystic
[X] LESSON: Syncretic

Since Trucemaker ended up emphasizing/focusing on a different, er, focus than I had thought it did -- still something useful; it's for getting hostile or near-hostile figures to the negotiating table; in situations where that's a thing, that's useful! -- I figured I'd revote and include a vote for Dawri instead.

I'm favoring Polyglot. Or Interfaith Dialogue with Mystic it'd be cool! we'd talk to people about Gods, and we'd also work on talking to the Gods themselves too. As far as magical ambitions go, I think it's a cool enough path to take. Understanding things from the God perspective. Er. Or, rather... Understanding them as people or beings you relate to. And, since Gods are beings and Gods can do stuff or make miracles... That means if you can talk to them and come to an accord, then you could wind up doing stuff potentially. i.e. Mystic is stuff like that time we went "Oh shit -- Ranald, take the wheel!" at Karag Nar, and stole from Gork and Mork. That sort of stuff is cool.

As for Polyglot though?

Well: big-ass old elven library! And Eltharin being a pain of a language! It's probably not all going to be in Eltharin, it might have other languages too -- but even if it is (all in Eltharin I mean), I think Polyglot would still be a good choice. Because, as BoneyM's example where Dwarf words and wordplay came in as a thing, well... Eltharin is a language that is even more of a pain to wrap your head around. Eltharin apparentls loves its multiple meanings and ambiguity. So, Polyglot would be good, if we've access to a library. And also, if we're talking to Elves, and want to learn and be able to speak like a native -- it'll be a neat thing to be able to do that, if nothing else.

And Karak Eight Peaks grand library too! (If we go for that. It'd be a cool thing, I'm warming up to it. Not sure what else we'd go for that would be equally cool.) We'd be able to get books in Tilean/Estalian or Arabyan or Nehekharan, and be able to learn the language much easier than normal.

I won't exactly scoff at Collegiate though. It's... okay, it doesn't exactly excite me. But being able to get along better with the Colleges of Magic and collegiate wizards? Very solid skill to have. A damn solid skill. (Collegiate + Leader or Collegiate + Mentor could be a neat combo, as I'd said. :V) And the descriptor for it reads "How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps." So, bridging gaps and getting them to all work together.

If you want to be able to talk to College of Magic wizards more easily, it's a good one. Or even if you just want to employ individual Wizards! Like we have been with our Golds.

Or the next time you want to hire, inspire, or attract, a lot of Wizards for a mission or an Expedition. Like we did for Sylvania and Karak Eight Peaks and Karag Dum, and probably will shortly for the Waystones too.

It's always a bit of a gamble -- especially if you only put in 1 AP or 2 AP into it at most, rather than a lot of AP :V -- how many and how high a quality will show up, so getting more diplomatic chops is useful. And being able to herd the resulting cats is also useful.
 
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[X] DIPLO: Dawri

[X] LESSON: Mystic
[X] LESSON: Syncretic

Since Trucemaker ended up emphasizing/focusing on a different, er, focus than I had thought it did -- still something useful; it's for getting hostile or near-hostile figures to the negotiating table; in situations where that's a thing, that's useful! -- I figured I'd revote and include a vote for Dawri instead.

I'm favoring Polyglot. Or Interfaith Dialogue with Mystic it'd be cool! we'd talk to people about Gods, and we'd also work on talking to the Gods themselves too. As far as magical ambitions go, I think it's a cool enough path to take. Understanding things from the God perspective. Er. Or, rather... Understanding them as people or beings you relate to. And, since Gods are beings and Gods can do stuff or make miracles... That means if you can talk to them and come to an accord, then you could wind up doing stuff potentially. i.e. Mystic is stuff like that time we went "Oh shit -- Ranald, take the wheel!" at Karag Nar, and stole from Gork and Mork. That sort of stuff is cool.

As for Polyglot though?

Well: big-ass old elven library! And Eltharin being a pain of a language! It's probably not all going to be in Eltharin, it might have other languages too -- but even if it is (all in Eltharin I mean), I think Polyglot would still be a good choice. Because, as BoneyM's example where Dwarf words and wordplay came in as a thing, well... Eltharin is a language that is even more of a pain to wrap your head around. Eltharin apparentls loves its multiple meanings and ambiguity. So, Polyglot would be good, if we've access to a library. And also, if we're talking to Elves, and want to learn and be able to speak like a native -- it'll be a neat thing to be able to do that, if nothing else.

And Karak Eight Peaks grand library too! (If we go for that. It'd be a cool thing, I'm warming up to it. Not sure what else we'd go for that would be equally cool.) We'd be able to get books in Tilean/Estalian or Arabyan or Nehekharan, and be able to learn the language much easier than normal.

I won't exactly scoff at Collegiate though. It's... okay, it doesn't exactly excite me. But being able to get along better with the Colleges of Magic and collegiate wizards? Very solid skill to have. A damn solid skill. (Collegiate + Leader or Collegiate + Mentor could be a neat combo, as I'd said. :V) And the descriptor for it reads "How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps." So, bridging gaps and getting them to all work together.

If you want to be able to talk to College of Magic wizards more easily, it's a good one. Or even if you just want to employ individual Wizards! Like we have been with our Golds.

Or the next time you want to hire, inspire, or attract, a lot of Wizards for a mission or an Expeditiion. Like we did for Sylvania and Karak Eight Peaks and Karag Dum, and probably will shortly for the Waystones too.

It's always a bit of a gamble -- especially if you only put in 1 AP or 2 AP into it at most, rather than a lot of AP :V -- how many and how high a quality will show up, so getting more diplomatic chops is useful. And being able to herd the resulting cats is also useful.
On top of that Eltharin is a simplified version of the elven Arcane language of Anoqeyan that is probably what the real high level stuff is in. Also we speak the Asur dialect of Tar-Eltharin not the Fan(Or was it Yen?)-Eltharin dialect the Eonir use. It might be mutually intelligible since they are dialects not different languages but with a language a double meaning heavy as Eltharin that might be enough to cause misunderstandings.

So basically we could get a lot of mileage out of Polyglot to help the project and get better magic lore, especially given how Anoqeyan is about as close to the Old One tongue you can current get in terms of things still around to read. Saurian might be closer and is still natively spoken but Lizardmen aren't exactly easy to talk to even for us.

... I wonder if we could write an Anoqeyan language guide for the colleges?
 
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Also, funny that you complain about using fictional examples while defending a quote said by a fictional character in a very hero vs villain centric setting. I am capable of using fictional examples, yes, but the phrase is fictional too, no serious analyst or wise philosopher wrote it,nor "old and tested" worldy wisdom, it was a quote said by a villain in a blockbuster, made to sound pithy and to fit the story, but other than that..
And yet, you are complaining that it doesn't fit the real world, and to support this you mention having examples from fiction. And were not the first to do so.

Let me be perfectly clear: If you want to talk about how this statement applies to fictional universes I'm not going to argue because that complaint is just plain silly and I don't care.
 
On top of that Eltharin is a simplified version of the elven Arcane language of Anoqeyan that is probably what the real high level stuff is in. Also we speak the Asur dialect of Tar-Eltharin not the Fan-Eltharin dialect the Eonir use. It might be mutually intelligible since they are dialects not different languages but with a language a double meaning heavy as Eltharin that might be enough to cause misunderstandings.
Pedantry: Fan-Eltharin is spoken by the Asrai of Athel Loren. The Eonir speak Yen-Eltharin.
She knows Tar-Eltharin, which is contemporary Ulthuani. She'd be able to communicate to some extent with other Elves, but she doesn't speak the Asrai's Fan-Eltharin, the Eonir's Yen-Eltharin, or the Druchii's Druhir.
 
I still maintain that "look what I did to this chicken" is a valid method of academic discourse if it is presented to the Amber college. They just don't want to admit it!
Oh no, I was making a reference to the "planning the lives of your chickens before you even know if you have eggs" joke.

You're suggesting the possibility of writing an Anoqeyan guide when we don't know it, don't know if we can learn it, and don't even know for sure if the Eonir know it.
 
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Oh no, I was making a reference to the "planning the lives of your chickens before you even know if you have eggs" joke.

You're suggesting the possibility of writing an Anoqeyan guide when we don't know it, don't know if we can learn it, and don't even know for sure if the Eonir know it.

I'd be surprised if the magical texts in the Grey lords library from Caledor aren't in that language.
 
What does a boiled chicken egg taste like?

Try it and find out. You have no idea how funny I find this right now. Sometimes I crack myself up
 
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