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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Robotninja said:
Yeah, I know. But it can keep them from having the Elven/Dwarven issues from causing problems. Just because the war is over does not mean things are forgiven or forgotten, after all.
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It really can't. Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you, it's just that this was a subject of a lot of confusion yesterday and Boney had to make a lot of clarifying remarks. It was doing really well in the voting for a while yesterday because people interpreted it the same way you did, that it would help with the elf-dwarf issue, but it turns out that's not what the trait is for. Here's a particular Boney quote that should be illustrative:
BoneyM said:
More, 'state of hostility'. 'Would take a swing at you if they thought they'd get something out of it'. Consider Mathilde's negotiations with the Kurgan and Norscans as a model for the sort of thing it's based on.
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Trucemaker is a trait for "we didn't come out here to fight these guys, let's cut a deal and move on." It is not a trait for getting two other people to get along. That's not something we did during the Expedition.
 
Rafin said:
Are there any non-Order factions that aren't natural enemies to all other distinct factions?
I can think of two maybe.
Chaos Dwarves are barely tolerant of any non-Dwarves that don't step on their turf uninvited and are worth more as business partners than as property.
Dark Elves can on occasion have non-hostile dealings with Skaven, Chaos Dwarves, Vampires, Necromancers, Goblins and maybe even Chaos. If they happen to feel like it at the time.
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There are effectively no factions that don't have reason to kill each other. The nature of Warhammer as a wargame demands that be so. Still, neither the Tomb Kings, nor the Ogre Kingdoms are particularly inimical to anyone else.

Sir_Travelsalot said:
Ah, but Lahmia was where the vampires originally came from and ruled, and thus works better for that joke than Strygos.
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Counter-point, the Scots were originally from Ireland, so Strigos still works fine for it.
 
picklepikkl said:
It really can't. Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you, it's just that this was a subject of a lot of confusion yesterday and Boney had to make a lot of clarifying remarks. It was doing really well in the voting for a while yesterday because people interpreted it the same way you did, that it would help with the elf-dwarf issue, but it turns out that's not what the trait is for. Here's a particular Boney quote that should be illustrative:

Trucemaker is a trait for "we didn't come out here to fight these guys, let's cut a deal and move on." It is not a trait for getting two other people to get along. That's not something we did during the Expedition.
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Oh. Darn. :(
 
pucflek said:
Right, the point i failed to communicate is that the previous headquarters would have facilities. Buildings like our towers, or the rooms we had built for colleges. Those are not trivial to build and you cannot actually take them and place them elsewhere.
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Not for free. But assuming that Laurelorn is providing the real estate and office space for free the first time around, we could use the Great Deed funding for mostly portable equipment and such and then migrate the Institute to be adjacent to our Great Library of Vala-Azril-Ungol at some point in the hopeful and speculative future. We already own at least some real estate there and to be honest building more of it isn't cheap but is also not the most expensive thing in the world.

Because I personally am not expecting Laurelorn to become our permanent home. Nor do I think that the Waystone Project should be the only thing the Research Institute does with Mathilde at its head.
deathofrats0808 said:
Still, neither the Tomb Kings, nor the Ogre Kingdoms are particularly inimical to anyone else.
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Oh. I wasn't counting them as forces of Destruction, even though many are ignorant about the former's allegiance and philosophy while the latter alternate between counting or not counting depending on when the last meal was and where it came from.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Dwarf and elves tensions don't count until war of the beard 2 is declared.
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Please, use the more respectful title: Beard War 2: Electric Beardaloo.
SuperSonicSound said:
Well I'm okay with Dhar insight winning but I would have loved to see what Theologian would lead to.
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Right? I do have to say, I've been low-key fascinated to have seen multiple people say something like "man, I sure wish [something other than Dhar Insight] would win this. Anyway, here's my vote for Dhar Insight." Like... if there's something somebody would prefer to win over Dhar Insight, they need to vote for that instead of Dhar Insight, not in addition to voting for Dhar Insight.
 
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Rafin said:
Oh. I wasn't counting them as forces of Destruction, even though many are ignorant about the former's allegiance and philosophy while the latter alternate between counting or not counting depending on when the last meal was and where it came from.
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Well, Order and Destruction are not in-universe designations. And out of universe, TK and OK are non-aligned, because they don't act in in the defence or seek the destruction of civilisation, they aren't united enough polities. But even if you specify Destruction, they fight alongside each other about as often as Order factions do. They might well betray each other afterwards (the Skaven and Dark Elves are specifically called out for being so treacherous there's rules for it) but they aren't necessarily going to kill each other on sight.
 
NexusEye said:
Dhar can be used for good as Van Hal demonstrated but only for a limited time that ends when it either turns you evil or deludes you into thinking evil actions are justified. With Dhar you quite literally die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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Tangent, but that quote always seemed strrange to me. It implies something very cynical, and sounds as if trying to say something profound about human nature, but doesn't really mean that much at all.

Of course you either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain, even if you live for a billion years as a hero. Heroism, by default, is not something that can be washed out or erased, it always remains, no matter what happens. Once a hero, always a hero, unless you deface your legacy badly, in which case there is no inbetween point but going straight to villain. If nothing but villainy can truly deface heroism, and everything less than that gets ignored as a quirk because you are a hero, well, of course you are locked into that binary after heroism is achieved.

Codex said:
Considering his military history is a list of failures about as equal to his successes, I'd believe it.
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Nagash stats:

Magic: yes
Diplomacy: No
Martial: No
Stewardship: Maybe (he did build a black pyramid)
Intrigue: Maybe (he is subtle when he wants to be, and performed some mighty intrigue when alive, but if I understand him correctly, he usually doesn't want to be)
Piety: No
Learning: Yes
 
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storryeater said:
Magic: yes
Diplomacy: No
Martial: No
Stewardship: Maybe (he did build a black pyramid)
Intrigue: Maybe (he is subtle when he wants to be, and performed some mighty intrigue when alive, but if I understand him correctly, he usually doesn't want to be)
Piety: No
Learning: Yes
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I'd give his Stewardship a no.
He ruined Khemri's wealth and reputation for its building and also got countless citizens and slaves killed in the process (the latter may have been good for the outcome, but still not good from the stewardship-side of things).

Also Piety: Yes, he fully believes in himself.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I'd give his Stewardship a no.
He ruined Khemri's wealth and reputation for its building and also got countless citizens and slaves killed in the process (the latter may have been good for the outcome, but still not good from the stewardship-side of things).

Also Piety: Yes, he fully believes in himself.
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It definitely comes across as weird how all those slaves died building his pyramid when he could have just used undead minions. It was truly pointless to waste all those lives.
 
Codex said:
It definitely comes across as weird how all those slaves died building his pyramid when he could have just used undead minions. It was truly pointless to waste all those lives.
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His endgoal was to kill literally everyone on the planet. I don't think he really cared.

More to the point, every dead slave meant another undead thrall.
 
storryeater said:
Nagash stats:

Magic: yes
Diplomacy: No
Martial: No
Stewardship: Maybe (he did build a black pyramid)
Intrigue: Maybe (he is subtle when he wants to be, and performed some mighty intrigue when alive, but if I understand him correctly, he usually doesn't want to be)
Piety: No
Learning: Yes
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I'd argue he has a very high Piety, he just uses it against the gods rather than for them.
 
picklepikkl said:
It really can't. Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you, it's just that this was a subject of a lot of confusion yesterday and Boney had to make a lot of clarifying remarks. It was doing really well in the voting for a while yesterday because people interpreted it the same way you did, that it would help with the elf-dwarf issue, but it turns out that's not what the trait is for. Here's a particular Boney quote that should be illustrative:

Trucemaker is a trait for "we didn't come out here to fight these guys, let's cut a deal and move on." It is not a trait for getting two other people to get along. That's not something we did during the Expedition.
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On the other hand, it would help if we want to get some Dawi-Zhar or Druuchi on board! :) Although, I have no idea if they even want the waystones to work properly lol.

Also, would help for what I can only assume will be our future regular shopping trips to Uzkulak!!!!
 
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Magic: Yes
Learning: Yes
Everything else: Irrelevant

Which is why he loses, despite being the most powerful individual walking around.

He dump-statted everything else, and is now seeking to render all stats useless.
Piety: Kill all the gods
Stewardship: Use undead labour for everything
Martial: If everything is dead, he can dominate them with necromancy
Diplomacy: If everything is dead, he can dominate them with necromancy
Intrigue: If everything is dead, he can dominate them with necromancy

Nagash is the kind of powergamer that has found this one exploit that just breaks the game and ruins the fun for all other players.

He is not welcome at any gaming table anymore... which is why the gods will always empower a champion with Plot Armor and Deus Ex Machina to screw his plans up.

No hackers allowed :V
 
Sparsebeard said:
On the other hand, it would help if we want to get some Dawi-Zhar or Druuchi on board! :) Although, I have no idea if they even want the waystones to work properly lol.

Also, would help for what I can only assume will be our future regular shopping trips to Uzkulak!!!!
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Canonically, the Druchii really really like Dhar. So they don't necessarily want the Waystones to work. But they are also opposed to Chaos taking over the world.
 
I just gotta say I'm so pleased that all top 4 options (and thus all 2 top options for each vote) are things I would be happy to see Mathilde focus on and that I believe will help us moving forward. Usually there is at least one option that has me concerned or that I deeply dislike.
 
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