Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
I do think that when the Waystones wrap up, it'd be good to take a sabbatical instead of immediately jumping on the next shiny job offer. I don't think there's a particular rush to wrap it up immediately, when most of the research projects being discussed aren't on any kind of timer.

I don't think Supreme Matriarch is remotely practical in the near future. Mathilde just isn't a magical duelist and having to learn a whole new style of combat is not going to happen with all the existing AP hell complaints. And frankly, people seem to want the title just for the ego boost of having it; we've literally never had a problem with Dragomas' leadership and nobody ever talks about replacing Algard when that's the logical next step up.
 
And frankly, people seem to want the title just for the ego boost of having it
That feels like an uncharitable way of putting it, considering I can name half a dozen projects people want Supreme Matriarch Mathilde to do, and the amount of posts I've seen (and written) waxing poetic about it on a narrative level.

nobody ever talks about replacing Algard when that's the logical next step up.
Mathilde has experience with magical tradition teamwork and working as a court wizard. It makes sense that people want to be Court Wizard to the Emperor, Wrangler of Eight Magical Traditions, and not the job that has far less to do with Mathilde's experience. Furthermore, we know exactly how to become Supreme Matriarch and exactly how long it would last, while no one knows how to become Grey Matriarch or how long of a responsibility it would realistically be.

Don't get me wrong, if Algard offered Mathilde the job I'd vote to accept. But I don't think there's much point in declaring that Grey Matriarch makes so much more logical sense than Supreme, or that it says something about us that we don't talk about it.
 
Last edited:
I'm doing the cardinal sin of questing here in aiming for an outcome that is dependent upon multiple random factors even outside of dice rolls for our own actions as if it's something that can just be 'decided'. That being said, the narrative payback on the story going full circle from Mathilda as advisor to Elector Count Van Hale to Mathilda as advisor to Empress Van Hale is like really high on several levels. Far more so than any action I can realistically predict us taking over the next ten turns.
 
That being said, the narrative payback on the story going full circle from Mathilda as advisor to Elector Count Van Hale to Mathilda as advisor to Empress Van Hale is like really high on several levels. Far more so than any action I can realistically predict us taking over the next ten turns.
There's a reason I mentioned "with what we know at this time" in my previous post. As things are right now, there's no big story impetus that would really push people to aim for becoming Supreme Matriarch over any other option for after-Waystone stuff. If Luitpold were to suddenly, or not-so-suddenly, bite it in the next few turns though, and Roswita ended up a fore-runner for election to replace him though? That could change things, especially since the idea of going full circle ended up getting a lot of people to go "yeah, I'd vote for that" a while back.
 
"Move over, Bitternach, this is my time to shine. My plot within plans made of schemes to deniably Fuck Marienburg at every turn is decades in the making."
 
Mathilde has experience with magical tradition teamwork and working as a court wizard. It makes sense that people want to be Court Wizard to the Emperor Wrangler of Eight Magical Traditions, and not the job that has far less to do with Mathilde's experience.
Not to dismiss your point, but Mathilde hasn't worked as a Court Wizard. She's been a Spymaster and a Loremaster, and while the latter was pretty freeform and involved magical solutions to problems, it had relatively little to do with managing wizards. The Duckling Club was fun, but there were less wizards there to manage than you'd find in an average classroom in Altdorf.

I think if people are really interested in a position of higher authority, they should focus on developing WEB-MAT for actual management experience. Mathilde started a branch college theoretically devoted to inter-college cooperation, but very little has been done with it other than stealing Egrimm out from under Alric and a couple haphazardly-planned Windherding attempts, and right now it's basically suborned beneath the Waystone Project.

There's possibilities for that in crewing an airship, but we also have an open-ended []Recruit for WEB-MAT action which, very notably, benefits from the buy-two-get-one-free effect. With the backlog of things to throw Max at thinning out, we could be using those free AP going through the rolodex and actually trying to get users of every Wind on staff. Not only would it expand Windherding options and give more opportunities to earn those free AP, but actually having consistent active contacts in every College is a must if Mathilde wants to make a play for higher office, as there's a whole layer of College politics that we only glimpse in social actions due to constantly being outside Altdorf.

At the very least, if Mathilde's ever going to challenge Dragomas, she needs to actually know who all the other possible challengers are, because they will immediately be challenging her even if she beats the dragon. Boney once mentioned Arburg is as prominent in Nordland as Mathilde is in Stirland, and she already made one solid go at Dragomas, but we know nothing about her.
 
While we wait for that, we could go around and try complete our collection of connections in all the parts of the old world.

We still need Bretonnia, Athel Loren, Tilea, Estalia and Marienburg.

Or our collection of council positions. Is Boris hiring? If not then I bet there's a Boyar somewhere that would hire us.
 
Not to dismiss your point, but Mathilde hasn't worked as a Court Wizard. She's been a Spymaster and a Loremaster, and while the latter was pretty freeform and involved magical solutions to problems, it had relatively little to do with managing wizards. The Duckling Club was fun, but there were less wizards there to manage than you'd find in an average classroom in Altdorf.

I think if people are really interested in a position of higher authority, they should focus on developing WEB-MAT for actual management experience. Mathilde started a branch college theoretically devoted to inter-college cooperation, but very little has been done with it other than stealing Egrimm out from under Alric and a couple haphazardly-planned Windherding attempts, and right now it's basically suborned beneath the Waystone Project.

There's possibilities for that in crewing an airship, but we also have an open-ended []Recruit for WEB-MAT action which, very notably, benefits from the buy-two-get-one-free effect. With the backlog of things to throw Max at thinning out, we could be using those free AP going through the rolodex and actually trying to get users of every Wind on staff. Not only would it expand Windherding options and give more opportunities to earn those free AP, but actually having consistent active contacts in every College is a must if Mathilde wants to make a play for higher office, as there's a whole layer of College politics that we only glimpse in social actions due to constantly being outside Altdorf.
Whatever her Dwarf title was, Mathilde described herself as Belegar's court wizard more than once. "Primary magical advisor to a ruler with some other duties tacked on" might be more technically accurate but it wasn't as pithy.

The problem with expanding Web-Mat, which I love in theory, is that Boney has been extremely clear that we have to make use of our wizards. We already slightly struggle with keeping our three employees decently busy, going around looking for even one new recruit would just eat up a lot of our AP freedom for not that much gain. I couldn't ask that of a voter.
 
I mean have you considered we could just ask Panoramia to come with us? It's not like she desperately has to be in Eight Peaks, she has been in a holding pattern for the last three or four years since about the end of the Dum expedition.
She's doing a very thorough, long-term study of basically creating a breadbasket farmland out of wasteland from Step 1 to completion. Her graduation was from publishing a paper on her masterwork, which was turning the Eastern Valley into a breadbasket, albeit with a ton of skilled labor and years of work...which is viable in some parts of the Old World. But Panoramia is aiming for something more achievable with practical levels of labor, so it may be that she's incorporating the Caldera's transformation into (possibly) grazelands into her work.

But unless this upcoming social action with Panoramia clarifies one way or another, we don't really know what Panoramia's current plans are. Just that the last we heard word on the subject, it was implied that her work with the Eastern Valley wasn't finished.
There's the possibility of learning Anoqeyån , Old Nehekharan, and Arcane Khzalid, and then trying to reverse engineer the parts of language of the Old Ones all three are probably derived from. That project is apparently a good enough justrification that we could probably persuade a Grey Lord to teach us Anoqeyån.
That's probably deeply unrealistic, given that arcane khazalid seems to be a closely-kept secret of runesmiths, Anoqeyan would require elven mages willing to teach us, and Old Nehekharan would probably require getting Tomb Kings to teach us, which, uh, good luck.
Similarly, I've been growing more in favor of taking a pure sabbatical following the Waystone Project, because it would represent an opportunity to churn through some old projects (languages! spell creation! arcane mark control!) and go on fun small adventures, on our own schedule when the mood strikes us, without duty hanging over our heads that we want to do a good job at.
That does sound appealing. We have a lot of potential for spell creation and established in-character reasons for wanting to blaze that trail for our College. Mathilde has remarked at how few options for offense Ulgu has, with Shadow Knives being pretty much the only battle-viable offensive magic that isn't deeply conditional until you delve into the risks of outright Battle Magic. Knightbringer is Mathilde's first attempt at addressing that shortcoming, but she's got potential for more.

A sabbatical would also give us more time to do Windherding enchantments/studies, or even bolder possibilities like Windherding spells--the easy possibility is a combination of a flaring light and Burning Shadows done in combination to create a "Burning Shadows in any direction out to significant distance, even during the day". But the idea of creating a new spell outright using two Winds wielded by two or more wizards sounds really cool to me, provided it's actually possible.

Though I do admit that being Loremaster-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor, or the Empire's chief ambassador to the Karaz Ankor, would be a really fun time.
 
My pedantry requires me to clarify that, no, Court Wizard was explicitly the job we voted for. Loremaster came later.
Court Wizard, Magic Focus
You will be the first responder when anything inexplicable, unexpected or eldritch happens. Though this is the Learning 'slot', this is an active warzone, not an established industrial center climbing the tech tree. This will be a role focused on responding to and finding solutions for problems nobody else understands. Other candidates for the role are Prince Gotri, Engineer, and Kraggi Senior, Runesmith.
Former Titles: Spymistress of Stirland, War-Councillor of the Expedition to Karak Eight Peaks, Court Wizard of Karak Eight Peaks, Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks.
You've decided to accept the position of Court Wizard, beating out the more traditional option of a Court Runesmith or a Master Engineer, but deciding what that means is almost entirely your own decision.
And finally there was, of course, yourself. A human on the council would raise an eyebrow among the more conservative Dwarves, and a human wizard would raise the other. The Dwarves, of course, had no tradition of a Court Wizard, and normally a scholar or a Runesmith or even an engineer would round out the Council instead. There was certainly an argument to be made that when the Karak was an active warzone (or more of a simmering one, as most of the fighting had given way to scouting and the occasional probing attack from the greenskins and a worrying silence from the Skaven) it meant that a Court Wizard could definitely come in handy, but most Karaks wouldn't even want a wizard on hand to investigate magical phenomena, they'd want a Runesmith to end or at least contain it.
"Loremaster" first appeared as a term for our role on T21, which we called ourself. The first time someone else called us that was Algard on T22, and that got us this clarification from Boney:
Is this an official title we have now, or is it just our Patriarch being tongue in cheek?
The seat that Mathilde fills in the council is usually filled by a Loremaster. Conservative Dwarves that don't want to say 'Court Wizard' will say Loremaster instead.
We didn't really start being called the Loremaster of K8P until after Waaagh Birdmuncha, because we took military command of the Karak in the way that would be expected of a Dwarf Loremaster at our spot in the chain of command.
 
To serve as "Magic advisor" or "Learning advisor" without being Supreme Matriarch, i agree.

Intrigue just fine though.
Intrigue would require a cover position of some kind, because the Emperor doesn't officially have a spymaster. Also, it would have to be kept deadly secret from the wider Empire, because while the Emperor is expected to have a spymaster, that spymaster being a Grey Wizard would likely cause a great deal of alarm. I'm not sure the benefits would outweigh the risks for Roswita.
 
I do not think "The emperor's spymaster is a grey wizard" would in fact cause significantly more alarm than "The emperor has command over the entire grey order" already does.
I think it would. The Emperor theoretically ahs control over the entire Grey Order, but in practicality that relation varies between SPs, various Emperors and how the Grey Order in general feels about a given Emperor. Besides that, the Spymaster being a Grey Wizard is, I would argue, a statement of intent in a way that Grey Wizards merely existing is not.
 
I'd vote for Empress Van Hal's Spymaster if SM was out of the cards, but from what I know I don't think it's a very good narrative bookend, aside from having on paper the same job as arc one. The Imperial Spymaster isn't a council position, so I don't think it's a natural conclusion of Mathilde's time in Stirland or K8P.

There's a world I love where Mathilde ends up as Chamberlain of the Seal. A preexisting relationship with Kislev, Laurelorn and the Karaz Ankor. An excuse to talk to Bretonnia my love and Ulthuan my love. Marienburg rues the day they're an actual focus of our job.

But Diplomacy is Mathilde's dump stat, so.
 
Last edited:
While I'd love being in the Emperor' council, honestly, I'll probably end up voting for the next arc based on how sentimental I'm feeling at that moment and how well-suited Mathilde is to it, not necessarily how prestigious the position is.

Like, if I'd been around back during the arc-choosing vote, I'd probably have pushed for becoming a tutor/bodyguard for Mandred, not the Project. I'd have thought 'hell yeah, give me an arc of Mathilde protecting/educating the future of Reikland/the Empire, probably getting a bit more familiarized with politics, and in-between we probably take self-improvement actions and the occasional adventure, that sounds fun'.

Who knows what the future will bring, and what we'll have done by the time we need to choose? I'd assume we will have done the Elfcation by the time that happens, and maybe retaken a nexus or two. Maybe the reclamation of Mount Silverspear and the Second Silver Road War will have begun, or maybe not. Who knows.
 
Like, if I'd been around back during the arc-choosing vote, I'd probably have pushed for becoming a tutor/bodyguard for Mandred, not the Project. I'd have thought 'hell yeah, give me an arc of Mathilde protecting/educating the future of Reikland/the Empire, probably getting a bit more familiarized with politics, and in-between we probably take self-improvement actions and the occasional adventure, that sounds fun'.
That job was mostly politics, with likely a large nunber of adventure arcs, because Heidi's idea was that she could get Mathilde to start lining up favours and gratitude for Mandred so that if Luitpold died earlier than would be good, he had the votes for Emperor. It wouldn't have involved much actual bodyguarding by the sound of things.
 
I think the only situation I'd support throwing Mathilde's hat into the upcoming SP duels would be if someone wholly unsuitable for the role managed to beat Dragomas. And even then, assuming we manage to beat that person, I'd support throwing the next duel if challenged by someone who's palatable.

Edit: Supremiarch does seem like an interesting gig, but I'd prefer to target the cycle after the next one. Maybe even be the Gray Matriarch for a few years beforehand.
 
Last edited:
That's probably deeply unrealistic, given that arcane khazalid seems to be a closely-kept secret of runesmiths, Anoqeyan would require elven mages willing to teach us, and Old Nehekharan would probably require getting Tomb Kings to teach us, which, uh, good luck.

Boney has confirmed in the past that the Runesmith's Guild would be willing to teach Mathilde Arcane Khazalid (it's not one of the big secrets of the cult), and the Colleges offer both High and Low Nehekaran as courses.

The only tricky one is Anoqeyan, which would require us to know a really old and powerful elven archmage, and convince them somehow to teach us. One of the Grey Lords might be able to do it, or we could try our luck with the Loremasters of Hoeth. It's the "convincing" bit that's the tricky part.
 
There's a world I love where Mathilde ends up as Chamberlain of the Seal. A preexisting relationship with Kislev, Laurelorn and the Karaz Ankor. An excuse to talk to Bretonnia my love and Ulthuan my love. Marienburg rues the day they're an actual focus of our job.

But Diplomacy is Mathilde's dump stat, so.

Yet Mathilde arguably has more experience as a Foreign Diplomacy advisor than anything else except perhaps Intrigue. She's been involving herself in the local politics of several polities, and she has contacts at the very top of the Empire's closest allies, which is honestly more important for that job than being personally a diplomatic genius - and it's not like she's incompetent at that, she has 18 Diplo and a trait (polyglot) particularly good for foreign relations stuff. She is the foremost human expert on the Karaz Ankor and one of the foremost experts on Laurelorn. She's, right now, successfully managing a Project that involves almost as much diplomacy as it does research, including elves (asur and eonir), dwarfs, kislevites and even Ulthuan.

I'd say she's even more qualified for that than for Court Wizard, given that in the Imperial Council that job comes with being Supreme Matriarch and all the duties and responsibilities that come with it, for which she is a lot less experienced than with, say, managing a magical research project. And she's absolutely more qualified than for a Stewardship or Martial position.
 
That's probably deeply unrealistic, given that arcane khazalid seems to be a closely-kept secret of runesmiths, Anoqeyan would require elven mages willing to teach us, and Old Nehekharan would probably require getting Tomb Kings to teach us, which, uh, good luck.

The Colleges teach Old Nehekharan, we can pay Runemsiths in AV to be taught Arcane Khazalid, and a Grey Lord can probably be convinced to teach Mathilde Anoqeyan with the justification of trying to reverse engineer Old One. All of this is confirmed.

We can do two of them automatically next turn by spending an action and the required resource (CF/AV) each. We can probably do the third just by spending an action, although it may depend on a roll. We do know a Grey lord who'd probably buy some necromantic secrets in return for teaching Anoqeyan as well.

Boney has confirmed in the past that the Runesmith's Guild would be willing to teach Mathilde Arcane Khazalid (it's not one of the big secrets of the cult), and the Colleges offer both High and Low Nehekaran as courses.

The only tricky one is Anoqeyan, which would require us to know a really old and powerful elven archmage, and convince them somehow to teach us. One of the Grey Lords might be able to do it, or we could try our luck with the Loremasters of Hoeth. It's the "convincing" bit that's the tricky part.

I asked about this here:
I wonder if we could use the vault of Old One writings as justification for getting one of the Grey Lords to teach us Anoqeyån if we mention that we'll also get a Runesmith to teach us Arcane Khazalid and promise to share anything we can puzzle out from the Old One texts?

They won't expect results quickly and they'll know that they won't be able to be taught Arcane Khazalid (unless they already know it).
It's definitely a good way to start a conversation.
 
Last edited:
@Boney are wandering journeymen a thing among Karak Dwarves?

The Dwarves have a Toolmakers Guild, but it's a young guild, and in times past tradesmen would make their own tools. Having specialized craftsmen do it makes a lot of sense for most guilds. Better tools makes for better goods, and a Master Toolmaker could make a better saw or hoe than your average forester or farmer. But it didn't catch on for the Metalsmiths because they can make their own metal tools for much cheaper while being better off for having made it exactly to their needs instead of to a standard template. But a century or so back the High King made a decree that if a Journeyman made their own tools, they still had to pay dues to the Toolmakers. So it's becoming more and more the norm for a smith to have a set of standardized tools made by a Toolmaker, instead of everyone making their own set for their own specific set of needs and hands."

You frown as you consider that. "That sounds... uncharacteristic of Dwarves, actually."

He gives a bashful chuckle. "I'm describing it as someone who takes pride in their own unpractically wide selection of hand-made tools. It does make sense if you consider that it allows a crafter to do their best work with someone else's tools, instead of only being able to operate at their peak within their own workshop. They can work to full effectiveness in a mine, or an outpost, or on a battlefield. It's what made the Okral possible, that the same tools could be found in just about every workshop throughout the Karaz Ankor, and that they could be used to full effect by just about every crafter to be found within it. From the perspective of Dwarves that have embraced that approach, needing specialized tools is a crutch of the insufficiently skilled.
I completed a Thorek campaign just yesterday (my first Dwarfs campaign) and I have to say, I'm very impressed you derived all that from a single sentence in the tech tree (I'm assuming you did based on this post).

For those who don't know, the description of the Toolmakers' Guild technology is "The August Toolmakers are a young but powerful Guild, as all Dawi that practise a craft need tools".

Is this supposed to be "impractically"?


There are two Total Warhammer technologies that make me wonder about how things are in Divided Loyalties.

The first is Assembly Lines - "Automated Assembly lines increase production but also safeguard quality, according to the Guilds anyway", which makes it cheaper and quicker to recruit gyrocopters. I'm wondering if assembly lines - automated assembly lines no less - are compatible with dwarf artisanship, or if it's just some radical engineering nonsense.

The second technology is Heavy Armour Plating - "Combining runes of lifting with heavy armour plate increases protection without compromising a 'copter's ability to fly!", which gives gyrocopters better armour. This is the second time I've seen reference to dwarves putting runes on mechanical devices (third if you count Thorek putting Master Runes of Disguise on a pair of organ guns) - the first time was in Dwarfs 8e page 62, where we're told the Rune of Impact (an armour rune) was first designed to enhance drilling apparatus.

Speaking of, @Boney, I've found a lot of references to runesmiths designing/inventing runes dating from the 1990s all the way to the modern day, which contrasts with Divided Loyalties, where all possible runes were discovered by the ancestor gods. If it's not a spoiler, what gave you the impetus to go in that direction?
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top