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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
Waystones is in large part uniting the knowledge of a lot of different polities. It makes sense to consider or human groups as well.
As for how? The same way we get the dwarfs, or elves or colleges interested. The same logic applies to them as well.

Whether it'll actually turn out that way is another matter, but it's certainly plausible.
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The Damsels I understand, they are Bretonias magic experts, but since when does the cult of Manaan do anything with magic, let alone waystones?
 
Given Damsels have strategic range teleportation through the mists, the Waystone programme's physical location seems less from that perspective.
 
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storryeater said:
Are we certain they can actually do it? Maybe they are faking it with super shadowsteed or something, like us.
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We're pretty certain, given that they apparently took Knights with them. They rode into the mists at one location, travel the Fey Paths, and ride out somewhere else accompanied with special effects.
 
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Pending College Favours: Salamanders at the Altdorf Zoo, Skaven organ-vat (split credit with Gretel), Anti-Waaagh Lectures

you know, those could be easy CF for an easy-going turn.
 
I remember a brief Mass Effect quest in which the quarian protagonist was stuck eating nutrient paste on a human-dominated world day in and day out.
 
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Planning the Waystone Project, Part 1
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    [*] The Waystone Project

    Though you've so far managed to keep them from being too divided, you are a woman of many loyalties: to the Grey Order, to the Empire, to Stirland, to Karak Eight Peaks, and to Ranald. At this crossroads in your life, you were pulled in very different directions by many of them. To further support your adoptive home of Karak Eight Peaks by continuing as Loremaster and burnishing the good name of King Belegar among the Karaz Ankor; to finish the job you began seventeen years ago and bring Sylvania properly under control of Stirland and the Empire; to further the machinations of your God by ensuring his imperial gambit comes to fruition with the future ascension of Emperor Mandred II to the throne. But there's one path that has the potential to serve all those you feel loyal to, and indeed all of the Civilized Realms: the Waystone Project. Though you realize your idle daydreams of being able to fully replicate the masterworks of Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor at their respective heights is unlikely, a better understanding of the Waystones would allow them to be better protected and might allow for bolstering them in some way. They and the Great Vortex are what make life possible on this world, as otherwise the magic constantly pouring in from the poles would accumulate indefinitely and allow Daemons to freely walk the world once more, and the forces of Chaos are very aware of this and often seek to corrupt or destroy them. Before his departure, Teclis charged the Colleges to protect the Waystones of the Old World at all costs, a duty that is all too easy to neglect when one is forced to choose between protecting the lives of innocents and protecting oversized rocks in overgrown forests.

    All well and good, but much easier said than done. The reason you have any hope at all of succeeding where so many have failed is that you have the opportunity to bring together many sources of information, with a strong foundation of the Eonir, the Karaz Ankor, and the Colleges. But that comes with one major question: though you're counting on the cooperation of all three, under whose aegis will the actual project be? To make this choice, you've brought yourself once more to Altdorf to meet with a living legend of the Grey College: Provost Kurtis Krammovitch, possibly the most suborned man in the history of espionage.

    His life story is extremely classified, but also common knowledge amongst the Grey Order - such is often the case amongst the greatest of Grey Wizards. He was born to parents who were members of the Hedgefolk, an organization dedicated to a form of magic known as Hedgecraft, involving potions, talismans, and a form of magic centered around The Hedge, the conceptual border between wilderness and civilization, and between the material and the spiritual. Not to be confused with 'Hedge Magic', which is a catch-all for any form of non-Teclisean, non-Dark magic. Not quite an Order, not quite a Cult, but a powerful and ancient organization nonetheless. It's said that they date back to man's first arrival in the Reik basin, and that Sigmar was assisted by the Hedgewise during His mortal days. But with power and respect comes enemies, as the Sigmarites resent any suggestion that their God had magical assistance, the Taalites brook no competition for the conceptual territory of the wilderness, and the Ulricans oppose them because Middenlander Hedgefolk worship Ranald, whom many Ulricans despise. By the late 2200s they were almost on their last legs, and when Teclis formed the Colleges he may have sealed the fate of the Hedgefolk, as in a single stroke he poached some of their most powerful and knowledgeable magic-users as founders of the Grey Order and created a new entity that was charged with hunting the Hedgefolk as unauthorized magic-users.

    All this set the stage for Kurtis' formative tragedy, as when he was barely more than a baby his parents were burned as witches, some say by a Bright Wizard. He was raised by his uncle, also a member of the Hedgefolk, and developed the gift of magic at the shockingly tender age of eight. At the age of nineteen, he was a master at Hedgecraft and had pretensions of being a master of espionage, and attempted to infiltrate the Grey Order by pretending to be a newly-developed talent where a Grey Wizard could see him, and allowed himself to be brought to Altdorf to be taught as a Grey Wizard. Somewhere along the way he was either found out or developed actual loyalty to the Grey Order - the stories vary - and was flipped to being the Grey Order's spy on the Hedgefolk, as Article 13 requires the Grey Order to do. There are many parts of the world where the Colleges have no sway but the Hedgefolk are greatly respected, and thanks to Kurtis' influence many budding magical talents who proved unsuited to Hedgecraft were funnelled to the Colleges, where previously they would have been left to their own devices, and such stories rarely end well. But after one of these recruits came to a nasty end at the hands of the Magisters Vigilant - deservedly or otherwise, as once again different versions of the story exist - Kurtis changed allegiances once more, and became the agent of the Hedgefolk inside the Grey Order. In these years the Hedgefolk got their hands on many secrets and spells that the Colleges would prefer they not have.

    (Or not, as some versions of the story posit that spreading Teclisean teachings amongst the Hedgefolk would be in line with College doctrine. Was this a ploy by the Grey Order, to feed Teclisean teachings to the Hedgefolk in the hopes that one day they might be absorbed entirely into the Grey Order? Was Kurtis an unwilling dupe whose 'betrayal' was orchestrated by another, or did he merely pretend to be suborned in cooperation with the Grey Order's plot?)

    The next change in allegiance came shortly after Kurtis' promotion to Lord Magister, as disaster struck the Hedgefolk in a way that highlighted the disadvantages of such a splintered and varied organization. The Ostland Hedgefolk were almost entirely wiped out in a skirmish with a necromancer in the Forest of Shadows, and the few survivors refused (and, as far as you know, still refuse) any assistance in restoring their numbers as the 'foreign' Hedgefolk were not dedicated to their patron Goddess Halétha, which all but guarantees that the Hedgefolk will go extinct in Ostland within a generation or two. It's said he went to the newly-promoted Algard and confessed his actions expecting to be burned or Pacified, but instead he was promoted to Provost, enshrining his twin loyalties in his job description. It is hoped that one day the Colleges of Magic will have enough manpower and influence to cover the entirety of the Empire from the largest city to the smallest and most remote hamlet, but until that day the Hedgefolk were a lesser evil in a very long list of some very evil evils, so it was in the interest of the Empire and the Colleges that the Hedgefolk benefit from a blind eye and a backchannel. The argument being that Article 15's exhortation to oppose 'destructive and anti-Imperial machinations, practices, peoples, and creatures' does describe itself as the 'prime concern and purpose of the Colleges, their Orders and the Magisters belonging to them', and thus assisting the Hedgefolk in poaching magic-users in remote areas that might otherwise be recruited by practitioners of Forbidden Lores is in accordance with the Articles, even if in a vacuum it could be considered to breach Article 13.

    Of course, many would not see it that way, which is why that is Lord Magister Krammovitch's unofficial responsibility. His official one as Provost is to maintain the Grey Order's official relations with organizations both inside and outside the Empire, and it's to that end you've sought him out today. He more than anyone will be aware of the possibilities and pitfalls that your Waystone Project might encounter as it tries to make the transition from an idea existing entirely in your own head to an actual formal organization.

    You meet him within the Tempelgarten, a tranquil and charming park taking up a significant amount of space in one of Altdorf's wealthiest districts that nonetheless manages to fend off any attempts to build over it thanks to the combined efforts of the Taalites and Rhyans, the Jade College, and a particularly touchy resident spirit. Lord Magister Kurtis is sitting on a lakeside bench and subjecting the ducks to careful scrutiny, and you take the opportunity to subject him to the same. Many elder Wizards are able to maintain an appearance that you once heard described as 'old enough that you should respect me, young enough that I can still thump you over the head if you don't', and Kurtis slots firmly into the elder end of that bracket, with grey hair and deep lines on his leathery face.

    "Lady Magister," he says without turning as you approach.

    "Lord Magister," you reply. "Ducks behaving themselves?"

    "I've got a colleague in the Amber Brotherhood that keeps them in line." You're not sure if he's joking or not, so you simply nod as you take a seat next to him. "So. Waystones, is it?"

    You nod. "The Eonir reached out through the Cult of Ulric, they're interested in working with me and the Dwarves of Karak Eight Peaks on the matter."

    "Algard nearly had kittens over that. Not a lot of good reasons for the Cult of Ulric to single out a specific Grey Wizard and ask for a meet. We came up with a lot of guesses and none of them came close to the mark in the end."

    "That whole business took a lot of people by surprise, from what I've heard."

    "In hindsight, it shouldn't have. Nordland's been ratcheting up the pressure for centuries, whether they intended to or not. Where they see prime shipbuilding timber, the Eonir sees a residential district. Something was going to give eventually. But that's a headache for the Emperor to sort out. You want to know what official framing to give your project."

    "I suppose the easiest solution would be to just have it be a joint project between-"

    "No," he interrupts. "Definitely not. You inherit the baggage and enemies of all of them and don't garner enough gratitude from each individually to make up for it."

    You nod. "What are my options, then?"

    "Most obviously, you keep it in-house. A project of a Lord Magister of the Grey Order. That's the easiest and will mean it doesn't get as much attention, for good or ill - anyone that holds opinions about us will already hold those opinions about you for being one of us. It'll mean you'll be under Algard's jurisdiction and would make for easy relations with the other Colleges. It does mean you'll be tied to Imperial politics if that's an issue. Or if you use some of the influence you've been accumulating to found an institute or branch of some sort, it'd put you directly under Dragomas instead of Algard, but it would mean that you're starting from zero with the other Colleges. Both of these would mean that you'd be operating under the laws of the Empire, including the Articles, so you won't be able to employ foreign magic-users - it would bring them under Imperial authority, which would oblige you to recruit them into an Order, report them to the Witch Hunters, or destroy them."

    "But I could still work with them, right? I've seen foreign magic-users at College events."

    He sighs. "That's a can of worms. Legally, Damsels and Ice Witches are considered clergy under Imperial law, rather than magic-users. Properly accredited Arabyan and Tilean magic-users are overlooked by the Templars for diplomatic reasons, rather than legal ones. Same with the Ulthuan diplomats when they've been from Saphery. I doubt you have to worry about anyone trying to claim that Runesmiths should be recognized as magic-users, but technically every magic-using Eonir in Laurelorn is in violation of the Empire's laws. Anyone daft enough to try to enforce it has never emerged from Laurelorn, but it could be an ugly mess if you go that route and end up getting the wrong sort of attention." He gives a significant glance to the bulk of the Cathedral of Sigmar, visible over the trees.

    "If I did, how would that turn out?"

    "Indefinite legal limbo as it turns into one more reason for the Sigmarites and Ulricans to yell at each other, probably. So you won't end up burned over it, but it would be a headache to deal with. Though that does remind me - you could also have it under Middenland authority, they're eager to build goodwill with their new 'converts' so they'd jump at the chance. That'd mean you're under the aegis of the Graf and the Ar-Ulric, rather than Dragomas, and does mean that Middenland and the Cult of Ulric will be on your side. But, again, the Sigmarites would be likely to be a headache."

    "For the sake of argument, what are my options outside Imperial law?"

    "Firstly, Karak Eight Peaks, of course - much the same as you are already. You'd be under Dwarven law, which I assume you already know the pros and cons of. This would leave you free to bring in any magic-users recognized by them - Imperial Wizards, Ice Witches, Damsels, Tileans, Tempelwijk... not sure about Arabyan ones, you'd have to check. The Eonir ones might be a problem, though. War of the Ancients and all that."

    "I've looked into that, at least legally the Eonir are free from that baggage. In the lead-up to the War they were on the brink of open rebellion against Ulthuan's authority, and after the fifth Phoenix King withdrew his armies from the Old World, the Eonir declared independence."

    He nods. "Much the same as the Asrai, then. I've been meaning to read up on all of that, but there's always something that needs doing and at least so far nobody's dragged the Colleges into that whole mess. Being under Dwarven authority won't bring you any enemies you shouldn't have already, except perhaps Marienburg. It would mean you should be able to bludgeon the Cult of Sigmar with their 'aid Dwarf-folk' scripture to get them to cooperate, which would be a rare advantage for a magical research project to have. And the other side of the coin, under Eonir authority. I can't really tell you much of how that would operate - they're not exactly open about their society - but it would put you under their law and authority. But it would mean you'd be able to approach Marienburg without any of the baggage of current politics, and it might mean you'd be able to make overtures to Ulthuan - Finubar has been building bridges with the Asrai and Eonir ever since the Asur returned to the Old World."

    You nod, taking mental notes. "Those are my options?"

    "The ones that seem relevant to me. You could approach any province or any nation, I suppose." He shrugs and smiles. "You could always go to the Border Princes. Wouldn't be the first research project to do so, not even the first this decade. But it does mean the Witch Hunters would start sniffing around, and from what I gather the neighbours there are often unfriendly, even when they aren't green."

    You smile. "I've heard the same. Thank you for your insight."

    "It was my duty to provide it. Let me know if you need any further help, whether it be making introductions or hashing out the details. Algard's very interested in this project of yours, and after your successes so far, he's willing to give you quite a lot of leeway to make it happen."

    You leave the park with a smile on your face from that last tidbit, and begin to collate your mental notes, adding on to the possibilities that Kurtis touched on with a few of your own, ranging from the obvious to the outright fanciful. Roswita seemed like she'd be happy to have you close at hand, so Stirland is one possibility. You got along well with Ljiljana and Ranald is up to something up north, so Kislev might be another - it might be nice for the Fire Spire to rule Praag's skyline once more. And while you're spitballing, your good name amongst the Dwarves could get you in the door at Tobaro in Tilea. And you've heard that Karak Norn has been working well with Carcassonne lately, so they might be a possibility too, and might open the door to working with the Damsels. And with all this talk of Marienburg... well, there's one way you could bypass the current political tension.

    Fully compiled, the list looks something like:


    Grey Order
    Jurisdiction: The Empire
    Superiors: Emperor Luitpold, Supreme Patriarch Dragomas, Magister Patriarch Algard
    Natural Allies: Colleges of Magic, Reikland, Hedgewise?
    Relevent Opposers: Marienburg

    Research Institute
    Jurisdiction: The Empire
    Superiors: Emperor Luitpold, Supreme Patriarch Dragomas
    Natural Allies: Reikland
    Relevant Opposers: Marienburg

    Karak Eight Peaks
    Jurisdiction: Karaz Ankor
    Superiors: High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer, King Belegar Ironhammer
    Natural Allies: Dwarven Kingdoms, Cult of Sigmar
    Relevant Opposers: Marienburg

    Laurelorn
    Jurisdiction: The Eonir
    Superiors: Queen Marrisith, Vicereine Cadaeth?
    Natural Allies: Middenland, Cult of Ulric, Eonir, Ulthuan?
    Relevant Opposers: Cult of Sigmar, Nordland

    Middenland
    Jurisdiction: The Empire
    Superiors: Emperor Luitpold, Graf Boris X Todbringer, Ar-Ulric Carl Valgeir
    Natural Allies: Middenland, Cult of Ulric, Eonir
    Relevant Opposers: Marienburg, Cult of Sigmar, Nordland

    Stirland
    Jurisdiction: The Empire
    Superiors: Emperor Luitpold, Grand Countess Roswita Van Hal
    Natural Allies: Stirland, Zhufbar
    Relevant Opposers: None

    Marienburg
    Jurisdiction: Marienburg
    Superiors: The Directorate
    Natural Allies: Marienburg, Baron Henryk's College of Navigation and Sea Magicks, Great Library of Verena, Ulthuan?
    Relevant Opposers: None?

    Praag
    Jurisdiction: Kislev
    Superiors: Tzar Vladimir Bokha, Z'ra of Praag
    Natural Allies: Kislev, Ice Witches, Karak Vlag
    Relevant Opposers: None

    Carcassonne
    Jurisdiction: Bretonnia
    Superiors: King Phillippe V, Duke Huebald, Morgiana le Fay?
    Natural Allies: Carcassonne, Damsels?, Asrai?
    Relevant Opposers: None

    Tobaro
    Jurisdiction: Tobaro
    Superiors: Prince Angelo de Vela
    Natural Allies: Tobaro, Estalia
    Relevant Opposers: Tilean City-States

    Border Princes
    Jurisdiction: None
    Superiors: None
    Natural Allies: Barak Varr
    Relevant Opposers: Witch Hunters, Greenskins, other Border Princes


    You won't make a decision here and now, of course. For most of them you'd have to do some research and probably meet a few key figures and discuss how a theoretical agreement might work. Now is the time to start carving down the list of possibilities to a few solid possibilities that you'll investigate further - and if they all turn out to be duds, there's always doing it as part of the Grey Order to fall back on.


    Vote for as many possibilities as appeal to you. Mathilde will seek further details of the winning four and the final decision will be made amongst those four plus 'Grey Order', which is the 'default' position and has no further details to seek. Anything that does not make the final four cut-off will not be a possibility for the final vote.

    [ ] Research Institute
    [ ] Karak Eight Peaks
    [ ] Laurelorn
    [ ] Middenland
    [ ] Stirland
    [ ] Marienburg
    [ ] Praag
    [ ] Carcassone
    [ ] Tobaro
    [ ] Border Princes


    - There will be a three hour moratorium.
    - If you have an idea for another host - that is, somewhere that would bring an advantage that nowhere already present has, not 'I want to see if Boney will add Kleinkleckersdorf to the list' - please let me know.
    - Stirland does not mean being Markgraf, Praag does not mean being High Priestess, and Border Princes does not mean being Barak Varr's nation-builder. It would be happening on the side and getting involved in it would be an option, but someone else would be in charge of it.
    - Research Institute would not necessarily require Mathilde to expend a Great Deed or a Boon - she has the resources to make it happen with money and favour, though doing so would be expensive. If that option wins, Mathilde would explore the possible expenditures to make it happen.
    - Don't just consider who will be the most friendly landlord. Authority over the project is a big card you can only place once, and it can open doors that would otherwise remain closed.
    - Yes, Carcassonne is misspelled in the voting options. It wasn't brought to my attention until voting had already begun. The correct spelling will be used in the future.
     
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    • BoneyM said:
    Though you've so far managed to keep them from being too divided, you are a woman of many loyalties
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    lel
    BoneyM said:
    Lord Magister Kurtis is sitting on a lakeside bench and subjecting the ducks to careful scrutiny
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    Ah, yes. The classic place for professional spies to meet: in a park feeding the ducks.
    BoneyM said:
    And you've heard that Karak Norn has been working well with Carcassone lately
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    Oh hooray! That Christmas boon paid off in the background.
    BoneyM said:
    Kleinkleckersdorf
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    That cannot possibly be a real Warhammer thing (he says reflexively, then remembers the existence of the Holswig-Schliesteins, and sighs).

    Anyway: hrm. I'd been preparing for a Boon and Deed-off and so need to start from scratch when thinking about this. I guess it makes sense that we have to do this first, though. Not really sure what's promising and worth further investigation other than [ ] Karak Eight Peaks, yet.
     
    Certainly want to investigate Laurelorn, we kinda know what to expect from the other two sponsors. Laurelorn on the other hand is a massive blank that kinda needs to be filled in to understand what we're getting into.

    Karak eight peaks I don't think really needs investigation. Though learning how much input Thorgrim would want would be useful.

    Brettonia could be useful and I also kinda want to lay to rest the question of how Boney would approach them.

    Praag would be cool. Though I imagine that under the surface Prague is teeming with cultists of one flavour of chaos or another,
     
    taovkool said:
    Seriously, fuck Marienburg. That place is nothing but trouble.

    Anyway, obvious votes for me would be the Empire Research Center. If not, I wanted to try going to the Elves for this.
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    I guess makes a sort of sense. We have no natural contracts with them, but we need to get information out of them. It would be the most straight forward way to bring them to the table. I just don't like all the unknowns.
     
    8 peaks seems best option just for the fact we could probably have all the room we need in The Mountains/empty Karaks for experiments and personal rooms and labs and such to attract highly skilled personnel, plus opportunity for many to be able to be close to high level sources of materials, giant port down river after all. And be able to test them on the various bad things in the area.. Plus cuts out middleman of the Empire. Only downside is harder to get elves but even then it's fixable and doable. We also might, I stress might, be able to try and understand the dwarf side of the Waystones and work on a solution from both sides of the spectrum and not Just the magic side.
     
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    ... Is it just me, or does it sound like dwarves are obviously the better options between empire, dwarves, and elves? We don't know too much about the elves, the Empire won't let us use foreign magic users in a project that'll probably require lots of knowledge of foreign magic, and the only downside of going dwarves is that we can't get help from Marienburg. Do we care about that place? Would they actually be useful to our project? If not, I'm honestly not seeing why going dwarves is even a question for our project.
     
    Alright lads here's how we do this:
    Open a Research Institute in the bad lands.
    Legally register different investigations with each possible polity. And put the Badlands location as the forwarding mail address.
    Whenever someone comes around to ask who's jurisdiction we're under, select the one thats most useful in that moment.

    Surely there is no way this could collapse into a cluster fuck of who legally owns what.
     
    @BoneyM, a bit of confusion around the Research Institute, does it have to be in Reikland, as it's 'natural allies' suggest, or could we establish a similar institute elsewhere in the empire? Or is it more accurate to describe it as a project directly under the Supreme Patriarch's authority, and Reikland just happens to be where that infrastructure already exists?

    Because ideally I'd like to combo it with Stirland, still have the college connections and protections it already has while partnering with Roswitta.
     
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