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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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OK, so, I think doing it under a Research Institute seems strictly worse than doing it under the Grey Order; we lose Algard as a superior, but that seems a malus rather than a bonus because of how enthusiastic he is for it. So that's out.

Karak Eight Peaks is definitely in because it's our only option for doing it under Dwarven authority, which we already have lots of cred with and which gets us a lot of allies and not many enemies. For those tempted to drop it because we don't need to investigate it:
BoneyM said:
Anything that does not make the final four cut-off will not be a possibility for the final vote.
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It can't be a final option unless we investigate it.

Laurelorn is definitely worth investigating to find out what the fuck.

Middenland and Stirland are both under Imperial authority, which means no foreigners, but Middenland makes it easier to work with Eonir and Stirland makes it easier to work with dwarves. Stirland seems like a better option because we have contacts and sway there, whereas we'd be starting basically from scratch with Middenland and also have more enemies.

Praag seems worth investigating from the cred we have with the Ice Witches and with Karak Vlag.

Carcassone... I don't know, I'm really curious about Bretonnia but I'm also leery about getting involved with the Asrai.

Tobaro would be funny just to T-Pose on them for being better at dwarves than they are.

Border Princes seem like a hell no to me.

So I think my final four is:

[X] Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Laurelorn
[X] Stirland
[X] Praag

But honestly as long as we investigate both K8P and Laurelorn, I'm happy.
 
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Kai Merah said:
... Is it just me, or does it sound like dwarves are obviously the better options between empire, dwarves, and elves? We don't know too much about the elves, the Empire won't let us use foreign magic users in a project that'll probably require lots of knowledge of foreign magic, and the only downside of going dwarves is that we can't get help from Marienburg. Do we care about that place? Would they actually be useful to our project? If not, I'm honestly not seeing why going dwarves is even a question for our project.
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If you're considering who would be the most cooperative host, that's true. But not if you're considering who you might want to butter up. Authority over the project is a big card to play that could win new allies, and Mathilde's already got the Dwarves on her side.

Tealg said:
@BoneyM, a bit of confusion around the Research Institute, does it have to be in Reikland, as it's 'natural allies' suggest, or could we establish a similar institute elsewhere in the empire? Or is it more accurate to describe it as a project directly under the Supreme Patriarch's authority, and Reikland just happens to be where that infrastructure already exists?
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Reikland's under the Emperor's direct control, and an Imperial research institute would have his cooperation.
 
Border princes option would have been perfect if we had pacified and done that first since we would have been able to build up all the infrastructure we need in a region really under only our control. Bodyguard would have let us maybe change policy on magic at a latter date too due to influencing heavily future Emperor and current ones family snd views on mages. Ah missed opportunities
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Alright lads here's how we do this:
Open a Research Institute in the bad lands.
Legally register different investigations with each possible polity. And put the Badlands location as the forwarding mail address.
Whenever someone comes around to ask who's jurisdiction we're under, select the one thats most useful in that moment.

Surely there is no way this could collapse into a cluster fuck of who legally owns what.
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It's Mathilde. Mathilde owns everything. And I mean everything, including the rest of the world. :V
 
BoneyM said:
Reikland's under the Emperor's direct control, and an Imperial research institute would have his cooperation.
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So could we then establish an Imperial Research Institute elsewhere in the empire, in cooperation with the local elector and reap the benefits of both? In Stirland for Zhufbar collaboration, or Middenland for support from the Ar-Ulric and Eonir, while retaining Imperial and Collegiate support?
 
[ ] Karak Eight Peaks
[ ] Laurelorn
[ ] Research Institute
[ ] Stirland
[ ] Praag

My current inclinations in order of importance/preference to me.
 
Tealg said:
So could we then establish an Imperial Research Institute elsewhere in the empire, in cooperation with the local elector and reap the benefits of both? In Stirland for Zhufbar collaboration, or Middenland for support from the Ar-Ulric and Eonir?
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No, because then you might be physically present in their province, but you would not be under their authority. That's the opposite of a thing that would win their support.
 
Kai Merah said:
... Is it just me, or does it sound like dwarves are obviously the better options between empire, dwarves, and elves? We don't know too much about the elves, the Empire won't let us use foreign magic users in a project that'll probably require lots of knowledge of foreign magic, and the only downside of going dwarves is that we can't get help from Marienburg. Do we care about that place? Would they actually be useful to our project? If not, I'm honestly not seeing why going dwarves is even a question for our project.
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Marienburg has a super big library, a small but unique magical tradition, and close contact with Ulthuan. It's worth considering what they can bring to the table at least.

(Warhammer being a silly place, and Marienburg being a knockoff of the Netherlands in part, the Marienburg Great Library is also rumored to have a special section of secret lore, built by a van Eyck, known as the van Eyck's Files. :V)
 
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Since the nature of the Waystone Project requires the cooperation of as many groups as possible, I think we should try to avoid any locations carrying burdensome political baggage, namely those under Imperial jurisdiction. The Research Institute would be subject to the Articles of Magic, making any collaboration complicated.

The whole Ulric vs. Sigmar squabble immediately disqualifies Middenland, and slightly carries over to Laurelorn too. I think Laurelorn is an option if we decide to lean heavily into Elven backing (Ulthuan), but because they approached Mathilde first, it shows a willingness to accommodate on their part.

I'd categorize the options thusly:

Unsuitable
[ ] Research Institute = Bound by Articles of Magic, thus more difficult to get collaboration going with foreign parties
[ ] Middenland = Too political
[ ] Border Princes = Hard to attract patronage

Less than ideal
[ ] Laurelorn = Slightly political, alternative option for deep-diving into Elven sponsorship
[ ] Stirland = Central location and trade-hub due to Dwarven Canals, but less attention-grabbing

Most attractive
[ ] Karak Eight Peaks = Karak-Waystone, valuable Dwarven + Sigmarite backing, Collaboration with most groups possible

Find out more
[ ] Praag
[ ] Carcassone
[ ] Tobaro
These are the exotic options to attract other groups beyond the Eonir, Dwarves, Colleges.
 
Personally feeling either K8P or Grey Order for maximum control over the project though I could be persuaded depending on what concessions we might get for locating it elsewhere.
 
Too late at night for me to think very hard, but Stirland also gets us direct access to Sylvania.

Their magical traditions have been culturally disconnected from the rest of the Empire since... before the Empire was a thing, as far as I know. Then the Necromancers and Vampires showed up and made the divide even more pronounced. Don't know what benefit that could have to us, but it is something.

They probably have a lot of waystones in need of magical unclogging. Dhar is sticky, and so are zombies. Bad for plumbing.
 
Added a note:
- Don't just consider who will be the most friendly landlord. Authority over the project is a big card you can only place once, and it can open doors that would otherwise remain closed.
 
mmh seems like having the project inside the Empire is likely untenable.

I'd order my current preference somewhat like: Laurlorn, Praag, Carcassone

The Phoenixian said:
Wow.... That logic... It's like a flavor tidbit out of a Discworld novel; Within such narrative conceits it's a brilliant way for the highest tier of master spies to operate.

I love it.
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I suspect it's a Good Omens reference xD
"The ducks in St James's Park are so used to being fed bread by secret agents meeting clandestinely that they have developed their own Pavlovian reaction. Put a St James's Park duck in a laboratory cage and show it a picture of two men -- one usually wearing a coat with a fur collar, the other something sombre with a scarf -- and it'll look up expectantly."
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I want to go for:
[ ] Research Institute
[ ] Karak Eight Peaks
[ ] Laurelorn
[ ] Carcassone

For the most likely options to win and the options we know least about in order to learn more about them. We currently don't know almost anything aboutBoneyM's take on damsels or the Eonir, and I'd like to learn more.
 
BoneyM said:
That's why he was scrutinizing them. If they're fatter than usual, he knows there's something up.
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... Huh, that's actually pretty clever.

Anyway, I think Eight Peaks or Praag are our best bets. We already have a solid working relationship with the dwarves and the elves want to work with them. Praag is kind of out there as an option, but it doesn't come with any notable downsides
 
BoneyM said:
No, because then you might be physically present in their province, but you would not be under their authority. That's the opposite of a thing that would win their support.
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There aren't concessions that can be made, or favors we can call in or boons we can offer?

Middenland I can understand, but this is (IMO) an effective compromise for Roswitta, Mathilda and her staff are on hand for any emergencies, priority one of applied waystoney stuff would be cleansing land of Dhar and banishing the taint of necromancy, and since it's partly an Imperial project the burden of finance doesn't rest entirely on her.

And this my just my read of your character, so I'm probably wrong, but does Roswitta, an (effectively) first generation countess who grew up a Witch Hunter really have the fierce pride of other electors to refuse Imperial assistance? And as a former Witch Hunter, wouldn't she have a respect for Imperial institutions and power that other electors lack? Especially after one Imperial decree has already gone so far to assisting her clear out entrenched vampires?
 
These are the ones I'm interested in investigating. Given word of boney that we already have the dwarfs on side, we might want to go with Laurelorn to get the elves more firmly on our side. Getting the elves and the dawi to work together is the main issue with waystones after all.

[ ] Research Institute
[ ] Karak Eight Peaks
[ ] Laurelorn
 
Just my opinion, but I think that Middenland is definitely the worst option by placing the project smack-dab in the middle of a highly polarizing conflict and risk inflaming tensions all over again, just when it's started to simmer down.
If we want Elven support, it's better to just go directly with Laurelorn instead of going through the Ulricans.

Also, @BoneyM Would basing the project out of Stirland run into the same problem as the Research Institute, namely that it's bound by the Articles, making foreign collaboration difficult?
 
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