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You know, it is going to be funny if we choose Waystones. I mean, Mathilde gets all these amazing job offers from extremely important people around the world, and she just goes "nah, man, I got my own shit to do, like saving the world."

Also, since we're going to have to ask people for funding and stuff, I was thinking... what if we went for Thorgrim instead of Belegar? The former has probably got even more money than the latter, and we know he has some kind of vested interest in activating Waystones and keeping them online in-character. Plus he's probably going to be showing up to talk to us soon anyways, since we missed him at Vlag. Also Thorgrim can probably throw more resources at the project than just a normal king, even aside from sheer money. His authority would certainly be greater for making wide-ranging deals.
 
The Ultimate Votedown of Ultimate Destiny
Grey Mathilde was hoppin' around
Karak Eight Peaks like a big playground
When suddenly Eonir burst from the glade
And hit Mathilde with three plot grenades
Mathilde's intrigued and started to pack
But didn't expect to be sainted by Vlag
Who proceeded to open up a college for runes
When Empress Heidi came out of the blue
And she offered up Mathilde a High Priest deal
Then she got distracted by border princess appeal
Before she could make it back to the Matcave
Abelheim nostalgia popped out of its grave
And took the deed to Sylvania out from under its hat
To distract Mathilde from managing lots of dwarf spats
But a research sabbatical started looking okay
Before the bodyguard offer now started to sway

This is the ultimate votedown of ultimate destiny,
Plot threads, bad puns, and AP hell as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive I wonder what it will be
This is the ultimate votedown of ultimate destiny

Mathilde turned down the job in Swamp Town
Because Panoramia started to frown
And then Vlag came back offering mad favor stacks
But Wissenland jumped out and landed on her back
Eonir were scandalous and down to get sweaty
When Nordland troubles chimed in with some Yheti
But suddenly something caught her leg and she tripped
The Book Clan wouldn't let her out of their grip
Then they saw Mathilde trying to sneak out the back
And they tried to grab her but were distracted by cat
Cause Ranald helped out for a chaste Shallya kiss
Then Melkoth confused everyone with his mist
Then Heidi tried to get a guard for her sprot
While Abelheim's daughter sweetened the pot
Over skaven spy hunts but they collided on the stair
Then they all got hit by a Grim Kragg glare

This is the ultimate votedown of ultimate destiny
Plot threads, bad puns, and AP hell as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive I wonder what it will be
This is the ultimate votedown...

Elgi sang out... in immaculate choir...
Down on his Deathfang... came Asarnil for hire...
Who recieved a quip... which could elicit groans...
Using some wordplay... About Dragon bones...
He fell over on the ground... writhing in pain...
As Regimand hung... His head in shame...
Asarnil fought through... the humiliation...
And made everyone cry... From an even worse pun
Then Thanquol the gray, and Thanquol the white,
And every last one of the Lady's grail knights,
And Marco do Tantavelli, and Vlad Von Carstein,
And Tusky Stompers, and Grimgar Alebelly,
Golem Bok, The Grudgebearer, Soizic, and Ironhammer,
Arbaal, Grombrindal, every single Dawi Ranger,
The Dark Omen, and Oswald Oswaldson,
Thrott, Gutrot, Crumbpot, and Jo Bugman
All came out of nowhere lightning fast
And they kicked Asarnil in his elgi ass
It was the liveliest vote that the thread ever saw
With the lurkers looking on in total awe
The vote raged on for two days or three
Many bribes were made but eventually
The champion stood the rest saw the better
<insert vote here> with a blood-stained letter

This is the ultimate votedown of ultimate destiny
Plot threads, bad puns, and AP Hell as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive I wonder what it will be
This is the ultimate votedown... (this is the ultimate votedown)
This is the ultimate votedown... (this is the ultimate votedown)
This is the ultimate votedown of ultimate destiny


Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, by Lemon Demon. Never again shall I limit myself to a single franchise to try to fit named characters into a mostly scanning rhyme scheme, that took like twenty times as long as my normal third assed word swapping
 
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Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, by Lemon Demon. Never again shall I limit myself to a single franchise to try to fit named characters into a mostly scanning rhyme scheme, that took like twenty times as long as my normal third assed word swapping
consequences out here queering the shitpost-effortpost binary

This was delightful, I sang along and had a wonderful time.
 
Also, since we're going to have to ask people for funding and stuff, I was thinking... what if we went for Thorgrim instead of Belegar? The former has probably got even more money than the latter, and we know he has some kind of vested interest in activating Waystones and keeping them online in-character. Plus he's probably going to be showing up to talk to us soon anyways, since we missed him at Vlag. Also Thorgrim can probably throw more resources at the project than just a normal king, even aside from sheer money. His authority would certainly be greater for making wide-ranging deals.
If you're saying "instead", I suspect you're underestimating our needs for funding.

Even if we assume that all the researchers we need to gather are willing to work for free or are paid by their local lords (which I find doubtful), we still need stuff like arcane materials, lodgings for the workers, food, defenses, transport to the various waystones and, if we're being honest, probably a few bribes to get to study said various waystones.

It's not an insurmountable amount of money by any means, but we're not gonna make it with just a single patron.
 
You know, it is going to be funny if we choose Waystones. I mean, Mathilde gets all these amazing job offers from extremely important people around the world, and she just goes "nah, man, I got my own shit to do, like saving the world."

Also, since we're going to have to ask people for funding and stuff, I was thinking... what if we went for Thorgrim instead of Belegar? The former has probably got even more money than the latter, and we know he has some kind of vested interest in activating Waystones and keeping them online in-character. Plus he's probably going to be showing up to talk to us soon anyways, since we missed him at Vlag. Also Thorgrim can probably throw more resources at the project than just a normal king, even aside from sheer money. His authority would certainly be greater for making wide-ranging deals.

I think we'd have more success getting answers for Belegar if we went to Thorgrim with Belegar.

It tells Thorgrim that "this thing is happening" whether you want it or not, and gives him a chance to get on board. I think he's smart enough to realize the momentous possibilities and act on it for the benefit of Karaz Ankor.
 
Ok with Waystones back in the lead and with some people suggesting burning the BOON on it or downplaying how huge of an undertaking it could be, I have some thoughts/conjectures and questions to pose to anyone voting for it.

The way that I see it there are basically two ways of going about the project. Either spinning our wheel for the next dozen or so years trying to herd surly runelords, Jade mystery cultists, and pompous spellweavers and make an incremental amount of progress at best, or go to the few groups and individuals that might have a shot at actually remembering more than the absolute bare minimum.

If the Jade college knew enough about how the waystones worked then the standard procedures for dealing with a waystone wouldn't be just don't or destroy it, it would be contact so and so lord magister of the Jade.

If the one greatest and oldest runelords in all of the Karaz Ankor, Thorek Ironbrow was genuinely shocked at the reactivation of the K8P waystones what are the odds that any runesmith knows enough of the forgotten lores.

The Eonir I have the least for but if they knew a significant amount I'd say they would have tried to do it on their own rather than swallowing their famous elven pride and working with Humans and Dwarves.

We could even seek out help from the Ulthuan but even the archives of the White Tower of Hoeth post date the War of Vengence by more than two thousand years more than enough time for any records from the time of Elven and Dwarven cooperation to be lost or destroyed.

So, just how far are you willing to go?

Are you willing to return Karag Dum to seek out the Runemasters? Out of any group, they alone are actually confirmed to know more than the absolute most basic level of understanding of the waystones. And yet so many of the supporters of this Waystone vote voted against investigating Dum out of fear of Morghur.

And I'd say Dum is the least dangerous option for anyone that still remembers how the Waystones are supposed to work.

On the Elven side of things as far as I'm aware there are exactly two mages who might have worked on the project.

Ariel, Queen of Athel Loren who was the wisest and greatest mage of Athel Loren even when she was a mortal during the times of Elven colonization. And who actually meeting with would require trespassing into Athel Loren the single more isolationist polity in the whole Old World and guarded by the waywatchers one of the few groups I'd say are more or less impossible to sneak past.

And Malekith, one-time friend of High King Snorri Whitebeard and ambassador to the Karaz Ankor hell now that I think about it he was probably the one to suggest making the waystones in the first place. Now trying to meet with Malekith the Witch-King Naggaroth would probably be all but certain death and a guarantee of massive mental trauma and even in the remotest of chances that he actually helps or we steal his research notes the odds of anyone trusting anything that is done after that is basically zilch.


On top of all of this, my personal bet is that if Chaos notices an actual effort to maintain or reactivate a large number of the Waystones they would launch a preemptive Chaos Incursion to prevent the strengthening of the Order forces.
Gathering together all the disparate knowledge has explicitly never been done before (aside from maybe when many of the Waystones were first constructed); what the Lades and Runelords and Eonir know are not disconnected little factoids put potentially part of a larger more cohesive whole that has not been put together in thousands of years. Going out and talking to each and find out out what they know and maybe even garnering their interest in the project is virtually unprecedented. Certainly since the War of Vengeance.

And that's before we get into what has been lost, buried in ruins or some abandoned workshop that we might seek out, or discovered once but discarded for not being useful to the person who discovered it.

I think a lot of people arguing against Waystones have a misapprehension of how unique Mathilde's position is. Dwarfs in general do not share knowledge with outsiders, Runesmiths even less so, and Runelords even more rarely, but Mathilde has demonstrated sufficient trustworthiness and garnered enough favor that she actually has a shot at it. Elves too rarely share knowledge, but they came to Mathilde (if rather obliquely) to propose the idea in the first place because she had the aforementioned trust with dwarfs and had demonstrated a minimum competence to at least not blow things up immediately. Mathilde is the first-ever human-wizard loremaster of an karak anywhere. She has saved now, two Holds from doom (it was one when the initial idea was floated).

When is the next human wizard going to come along with the exact same circumstances to maybe have a chance of getting it done? Two more centuries? Three? Never? Will the Eonir still be around then? Kragg? Thorek?

Don't get me wrong, I don't imagine this will be easy or quick. Still, I think the original goal (turning on/rerouting a few Waystones) is eminently achievable and I also think some stretch goals are also achievable (repairing lightly damaged Waystones doesn't seem too much of a reach, maybe even learning how to more safely tap into existing ones). If we're very lucky I think we can probably even figure out how to make (cruder, less powerful) new Waystones.

And I think we can have fun along the way. Some of it will be smoothing over issues between dwarfs and elves, but more I think will be talking to them to find out what they already know that they don't necessarily know they know and putting it together with what other people know (known or not) and other bits will be traipsing about in exotic (and knot so exotic) locales for scraps of clues to find the next hint of where we need to focus. And others will be using what knowledge we've already gained to deal with problems we find along the way (maybe we figure out how to spot and fix minor clogs in Waystones and we go around with a team of Wizards/Runesmiths unmucking some scattered Waystones, or maybe we learn how to tap the network just enough to find out what parts of it are being clogged actively and send off Imperial Armies - or lead them! - to bust up a warherd or two).

We won't know what the job actually entails until we get well into it really, because Mathilde is the one in charge. This will be her show, for good and ill, with her 'bosses' defined only by who she can convince to invest and what she's willing to promise.
 
I think a lot of people arguing against Waystones have a misapprehension of how unique Mathilde's position is. Dwarfs in general do not share knowledge with outsiders, Runesmiths even less so, and Runelords even more rarely, but Mathilde has demonstrated sufficient trustworthiness and garnered enough favor that she actually has a shot at it. Elves too rarely share knowledge, but they came to Mathilde (if rather obliquely) to propose the idea in the first place because she had the aforementioned trust with dwarfs and had demonstrated a minimum competence to at least not blow things up immediately. Mathilde is the first-ever human-wizard loremaster of an karak anywhere. She has saved now, two Holds from doom (it was one when the initial idea was floated).

When is the next human wizard going to come along with the exact same circumstances to maybe have a chance of getting it done? Two more centuries? Three? Never? Will the Eonir still be around then? Kragg? Thorek?
Excellent point. The other positions can be filled by someone else, but only Mat can make the Waystones project work.
 
Even before reading through them, one can really feel how you made those awesome snippets, what with the specially selected pretty background music and such. Thank you.


@BoneyM, Who actually is Kraggi Senior and where does he live?
[ ] Runesmith Kraggi
Having graduated from an incredibly exacting apprenticeship under Thorek Ironbrow, Kraggi comes with the grudging stamp of approval from possibly the greatest Runelord of the Karaz Ankor.
 
Excellent point. The other positions can be filled by someone else, but only Mat can make the Waystones project work.
Didn't the QM specifically tell us we should not to argue like that?
- There are no wrong answers here. Mathilde has earned the freedom to choose her own path in life, and it's entirely valid for her to pick something interesting over something responsible. Other competent people exist in the world, and will take the jobs that Mathilde doesn't.
 
[ ] Princess Edda Grimbrow
Intimidatingly organized, Edda already has close ties with the Halflings and is knowledgeable in matters of contracts and Dwarf law. Putting her on the council will build ties with Karak Izor. Selecting Edda will cause an economic focus on traditional Dwarven guilds.
Huh. I completely forgot this. Doesn't that mean that, while busy with other stuff as well, Edda is actually quite adept at filling in for the legal advice and immigrant integration part of Council advice? One less reason to feel bad about Loremaster-at-Large.

@BoneyM I know over a year has passed since, but do you remember who the other posibilities for Diplomacy Advisor for Belegar were?
Didn't the QM specifically tell us we should not to argue like that?
Did he? All I see is him telling us that all options are valid and that "if Mathilde doesn't do it then bad things will happen" isn't the concern to focus on. But it is genuinely true that there won't be a Waystone Project headed by someone else anytime soon.
 
@Redshit Army, that last Omake was really cool and the first two music choices were absolutely on point (the last two seemed like references I didn't get). The Waystone one felt like the sort of situation BoneyM would write, although there might be a vote there just to make the thread sweat a bit :D
I'm not too sure that we could possibly convince Cython to travel all the way to another Karak to help us kill other Dragons (do we even have something he wants that much?) but the idea of it is really cool, and the scene was fun. Cython using tiny Mathilde as his bad cop was amusing.
 
Did he? All I see is him telling us that all options are valid and that "if Mathilde doesn't do it then bad things will happen" isn't the concern to focus on. But it is genuinely true that there won't be a Waystone Project headed by someone else anytime soon.

I'm like, 60% the Collages were willing to handle the waystone project on Mathilde's behalf. There will be people working on the waystones with or without us.
 
Did he? All I see is him telling us that all options are valid and that "if Mathilde doesn't do it then bad things will happen" isn't the concern to focus on. But it is genuinely true that there won't be a Waystone Project headed by someone else anytime soon.
Okay then, assuming nobody picks up the slack ( and I'm not sure that's the case, now that the Colleges know that there is interest from the Eonir they might try without us), it's still not an option that runs away.

I'd be perfectly fine with doing Waystones-project as an epilogue in case the quest ever finds a non-violent end and we don't choose it before that.
 
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