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I just hope that everyone voting for the Waystones has by now realised that it will be Mathilde leading a research-project, bringing in experts from several very stubborn factions and trying to get them to work together. And excercise in Diplomacy over learning or martial.

While actual research and possibly even a bit of dungeon-delving for old lore might have a place in the task, it is not the meat of it, so to say. Our further information on the topic was mostly the history of the Eonir and the War of Vengance after all, not a list of practical starts.

It would be sad if anything here wins due to wrong expectations.

Disclaimer: Written to my best understanding of the situation, might be wrong.

Mathilde's learning is going to be useful for establishing bona fides because there's no way a snotty elven archmage will be impressed with an ignoramus (and understanding and collating all the research will be a learning based task).

That said Mathilde will have a lot of diplomatic ground to cover in basically all four leading options. Hopefully this will give an opportunity to level up diplomacy.
 
So, I know we're not allowed to buy votes... but I dont know if there's a ruling about buying elections.

I'm just saying... if everyone voting for bodyguard bought Boney a coffee... and included some kind of subtle messaging...

(Yes, I'm kidding. On the other hand, 1800 bucks is 1800 bucks.)
 
Also looting libraries. Gotta grind that Bibliothecography skill.

Is it possible to commission someone to create a spell for us?

I know we don't have the relevant traits for it, but it might be possible to create an ulgu spell that copies objects, specifically books.

We might not be able to do it, but there might be another magister, especially among the more college bound researcher type that fits and would be happy for more collage credit.

It doesn't even have to be a lasting copy, just long enough to smuggle out and make a real copy.
 
Is it possible to commission someone to create a spell for us?

I know we don't have the relevant traits for it, but it might be possible to create an ulgu spell that copies objects, specifically books.

We might not be able to do it, but there might be another magister, especially among the more college bound researcher type that fits and would be happy for more collage credit.

It doesn't even have to be a lasting copy, just long enough to smuggle out and make a real copy.
It's been floated and vetoed, I'm afraid.
No, spell creation can't be commissioned.
I assure you, I would be all about Photocopy No Jutsu if it were within our capabilities to acquire.
 
Aargh! (Again). Damn you Hugger, why did you have to bring Abel into this. I remember when he fell. I was there!

My inner nerd wants the waystones (and the books, and the magi-science), but Ranald damn it, a great hero fell, and we can perhaps finally finish what he started!

[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
 
Aww man this is a great post. The real issue with Waystone in the lead is people like me who are "anything but Loremaster" and so have approval voted it. So if you really want Markgraf maybe use your amazing effortpost skills against Loremaster too :p
Unfortunately, I swore a solemn oath not to use my powers against other voters.

I fight for causes, not against them!
 
It's been floated and vetoed, I'm afraid.

I assure you, I would be all about Photocopy No Jutsu if it were within our capabilities to acquire.

Darn.
I just thought of the cool and mysterious lady magister (explorer) mathilde pulling a librarian-type that has just the skills she needs on adventures to steal knowledge from ancient libraries Indiana Johns style.

But it won't happen 😞
 
Adhoc vote count started by Gamefreak1ed on Mar 8, 2021 at 2:20 PM, finished with 3496 posts and 632 votes.
 
Well, it seems that approval voting has finally solidified some kind of concensus. Not many are fully in favor of Waystones, but they certainly love it more than other options.

Still, we can have big changes, as the difference is minimal, if great when compared to yesterday.
 
Ok with Waystones back in the lead and with some people suggesting burning the BOON on it or downplaying how huge of an undertaking it could be, I have some thoughts/conjectures and questions to pose to anyone voting for it.

The way that I see it there are basically two ways of going about the project. Either spinning our wheel for the next dozen or so years trying to herd surly runelords, Jade mystery cultists, and pompous spellweavers and make an incremental amount of progress at best, or go to the few groups and individuals that might have a shot at actually remembering more than the absolute bare minimum.

If the Jade college knew enough about how the waystones worked then the standard procedures for dealing with a waystone wouldn't be just don't or destroy it, it would be contact so and so lord magister of the Jade.

If the one greatest and oldest runelords in all of the Karaz Ankor, Thorek Ironbrow was genuinely shocked at the reactivation of the K8P waystones what are the odds that any runesmith knows enough of the forgotten lores.

The Eonir I have the least for but if they knew a significant amount I'd say they would have tried to do it on their own rather than swallowing their famous elven pride and working with Humans and Dwarves.

We could even seek out help from the Ulthuan but even the archives of the White Tower of Hoeth post date the War of Vengence by more than two thousand years more than enough time for any records from the time of Elven and Dwarven cooperation to be lost or destroyed.

So, just how far are you willing to go?

Are you willing to return Karag Dum to seek out the Runemasters? Out of any group, they alone are actually confirmed to know more than the absolute most basic level of understanding of the waystones. And yet so many of the supporters of this Waystone vote voted against investigating Dum out of fear of Morghur.

And I'd say Dum is the least dangerous option for anyone that still remembers how the Waystones are supposed to work.

On the Elven side of things as far as I'm aware there are exactly two mages who might have worked on the project.

Ariel, Queen of Athel Loren who was the wisest and greatest mage of Athel Loren even when she was a mortal during the times of Elven colonization. And who actually meeting with would require trespassing into Athel Loren the single more isolationist polity in the whole Old World and guarded by the waywatchers one of the few groups I'd say are more or less impossible to sneak past.

And Malekith, one-time friend of High King Snorri Whitebeard and ambassador to the Karaz Ankor hell now that I think about it he was probably the one to suggest making the waystones in the first place. Now trying to meet with Malekith the Witch-King Naggaroth would probably be all but certain death and a guarantee of massive mental trauma and even in the remotest of chances that he actually helps or we steal his research notes the odds of anyone trusting anything that is done after that is basically zilch.


On top of all of this, my personal bet is that if Chaos notices an actual effort to maintain or reactivate a large number of the Waystones they would launch a preemptive Chaos Incursion to prevent the strengthening of the Order forces.
 
It's like a heist movie. First you assemble the crew. You have to wheedle the old brilliant-but-cantankerous guy out of retirement for One! Last! Job!, you have to keep your eye on the smug one who seems to know more than they should, you have to find an earnest youngster who's Inexperienced But By Golly Do They Have Gumption, etc. All of that takes diplomacy. Then you actually tackle the hard problems of the project; you're still exercising that diplomacy to keep the crew together, but you're also doing the actual work that you assembled the crew to do, which will be the research in this particular case.
God that's just way to fitting.
Dwarves: Old cantankerous guy.
Elves: Smug one who knows to much.
Humans: Inexperienced Youngster with Gumption.
 
I can't speak for others, but I feel like tagging people who post votes without elaboration and asking them to vote for something completely unrelated and in direct competition with what they're actually voting for is kind of poor form? Like, I think it's totally fine to grab people who vote for Count of Sylvania and be like "hey, this isn't really in contention at this point, but Markgraf is!" or people who vote for High Priest and "hey, this isn't in contention either, but Bodyguard is!", since there's an obvious link between "what this person voted for" and "what you are suggesting." But if someone is just dropping in and voting for Waystones without any comment, I dunno, it feels rude to me to say "hey, I know you voted for this, but why don't you instead vote for its opponent?"
So I've barely kept up this thread/vote, outside of making like two posts on it, but... Okay, so. People are allowed to call in their friends to come vote in this thread, or to go and poke people who've posted here once and never again, or whatever, to come in and make a vote-without-elaboration. This is totally fine and kosher and the regulars in the thread just have to put up with this and not question or or gripe about it.

Like... I just question this. We just have to put up with the fact that people are going to be poking their friends and etc. And of course everybody is trying to convince everybody else and all.

But. Quoting a person who posted a vote without elaboration and going "Hey, can... etc etc" is not polite and is what gets frowned at? That is where the line gets drawn?
 
God that's just way to fitting.
Dwarves: Old cantankerous guy.
Elves: Smug one who knows to much.
Humans: Inexperienced Youngster with Gumption.
I'm glad someone Saw What I Did There.
The way that I see it there are basically two ways of going about the project. Either spinning our wheel for the next dozen or so years trying to herd surly runelords, Jade mystery cultists, and pompous spellweavers and make an incremental amount of progress at best, or go to the few groups and individuals that might have a shot at actually remembering more than the absolute bare minimum.
I disagree with your post because I strongly disagree with this assumption. It is a level of pessimism I think is totally unwarranted by the actual text of the quest. Mathilde isn't that pessimistic; she thinks that by collating what humans, Eonir, and dwarves remember, there's chance for real progress:
The more you think about it, the more it seems like the Waystone project is going to be less about pure research and more about getting all the extant information in one place and getting as many relevant organizations on board as possible, at least at first. There's no chance you'd be able to reverse-engineer the world-spanning masterpiece of the Elves and Dwarves at their heights from scratch - older and wiser than you have tried and failed. The same would likely apply to any given researcher from the Eonir or the Karaz Ankor. But together you might succeed where individually you would all fail.
"Forget the in-character assessment of the project from someone who actually exists in this universe and is a high-powered researcher, we're gonna have to go seek out forbidden knowledge from Karag Dum and dark elves" is... A Take. And I'll grant you that those are probably sources of information that would be very rich if we could mind them! But I strongly object to "oh, we're doomed to spinning our wheels and getting nowhere unless we embrace extreme measures."
So I've barely kept up this thread/vote, outside of making like two posts on it, but... Okay, so. People are allowed to call in their friends to come vote in this thread, or to go and poke people who've posted here once and never again, or whatever, to come in and make a vote-without-elaboration. This is totally fine and kosher and the regulars in the thread just have to put up with this and not question or or gripe about it.

Like... I just question this. We just have to put up with the fact that people are going to be poking their friends and etc. And of course everybody is trying to convince everybody else and all.

But. Quoting a person who posted a vote without elaboration and going "Hey, can... etc etc" is not polite and is what gets frowned at? That is where the line gets drawn?
FWIW, I think the bolded behavior is not fine. I don't do it. Hell, I did the opposite of that; my friend whom I invited to actually come out and vote on this because she's a long-term reader is voting in opposition to my preferences. But I also can't stop anyone from doing it, and I can't call anyone on it because it doesn't happen here in the thread. But I think jumping on a new voter and being like "hey, could you change your vote" is bleh, and that it makes the thread a tenser and more uncomfortable place, and I don't think it was wrong to say so.
 
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So I've barely kept up this thread/vote, outside of making like two posts on it, but... Okay, so. People are allowed to call in their friends to come vote in this thread, or to go and poke people who've posted here once and never again, or whatever, to come in and make a vote-without-elaboration. This is totally fine and kosher and the regulars in the thread just have to put up with this and not question or or gripe about it.

Like... I just question this. We just have to put up with the fact that people are going to be poking their friends and etc. And of course everybody is trying to convince everybody else and all.

But. Quoting a person who posted a vote without elaboration and going "Hey, can... etc etc" is not polite and is what gets frowned at? That is where the line gets drawn?
I don't approve of any of that but there's not really anything that can be done about the other ones.
 
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We don't know what the Jade know, because Jade keep it secret, also standard practice is what it is because even if Jade being experts was widely known, there is not always time to find a Jade, so we have the knowledge to do basic maintenance, and strict rules to not fuck with the scary explodey magic stones.
We do not know what the Runelords know, because while Thorek might be surprised that K8P waystones reactivated, that could easily be because he is not aware of what the crown does (though after studying it he might).
Elves are the best bet to having some information, but we do know they are unable to do the reactivation on their own for reasons we do not know.

Hoeth canonically has books in Khazalid, wether they are about anything useful to waystone research is up in the air, and they are unlikely to loan them.
Trying to get anything out of Malekith is a stupid idea and i can't see anyone seriously suggesting it.
Same for Dum, that door is closed now that their actions have become known.
 
Gods damnit how did Bodyguard fall behind by nearly twenty votes?

Gah, approval votes are the worst.

C'mon Bodyguard voters!
You don't know how many people would not have voted for Bodyguard in the first place without approval voting. I might for instance not have.
Yeah... if Waystones win you can say goodbye to Book-boon. We'll need that thing to ensure cooperation between secretive Runelords and the Elgi. Like, no Runelord is going to trust those secrets to an Elgi, but with Mat's reputation and standing, as well as position as Loremaster, she might convince someone like Thorek to tell her about the Waystones, especially if Belegar has her officially working on it.

But that kind of support is going to cost us, so say goodbye to the dreams of unlimited book-works. Even if we don't need it for the Runelords, we'll probably need it for something else related to the Waystones, and a large, eternal, general library just doesn't serve that purpose.

If Waystones wins, voting to spend the Boon on Books is foolish and wasteful. It's too generalised for the job, and that job is too important. I could see it as spending to Boon of Belegar trying to get us everything he can get on Waystones, but diluting the Boon further would be irresponsible.

EDIT: Book-boon is most compatibile with Loremaster at large, Sinecure, and a Research Hiatus most of all. A Research Hiatus vote would all but demand a Book Boon for it.
Hard disagree. Belegar has no power over Runelords. He doesn't even have any native to K8P. Thorek is the Runelord of Karak Azul and we will or won't recruit him based on our own relationship with him. And the idea that Kragg will be swayed to do something he disagrees with by anyone is ludicrous to the extreme.

If Waystones wins but Book Boon loses over something more Waystone related I will buy a hat and eat it.
- Bodyguard: it's unclear if BOOKBOON is suitable if we live in Altdorf. We might want to organize something analogous in Altdorf perhaps? Belegar can't give us anything that would really help with this job, but a Deed may be useful for Empire politics.
For some personal ambition perhaps, but we don't need a favor we earned from the Empire, as administrated by the Emperor Luitpold, in order to help us strengthen the reputation and political capital of the Emperor's own family.
Sevir is the word for magic in general, from Eltharin for "wind." Scope from the standard English suffix originating in Greek. -o- in the middle to make it flow better.
I didn't even notice that it was an -o-. I've been pronouncing it Seviriscope all this time. And I think I prefer my pronunciation and spelling, so I'll just stick to it :p.
Just end every argument for Waystones with "...and Marienburg must be destroyed" and you'll probably pick up some spare votes. It's a time-honoured oratorical technique
I don't understand. That's true no matter which job we take.
 
But. Quoting a person who posted a vote without elaboration and going "Hey, can... etc etc" is not polite and is what gets frowned at? That is where the line gets drawn?

I mean...

Please do not mass ping people who have made a valid vote to try to get them to change it under any circumstances.
Please don't mass ping people to try to swing votes.
No, but that does not mean that anyone should be pinged to try to get them to change one or the other. It's a valid vote and I'll combine the votes of the two when it comes time to sort the results out.

Yes. As long as a vote is valid, people can vote for whatever reason they want. Breaking site rules, of course, makes a vote invalid.
 
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Border Princess of the Howling River
 
So I know I said that Pickle's reasoning convinced me to approval Waystones over Markgraf if both are in the top two, but Omegahugger's effort post was too good, too heartwarming to allow myself to stand in his way. So instead I'll just continue voting for my top four choices and not place myself on either side of the Waystone/Markgraf conflict.
 
So I've barely kept up this thread/vote, outside of making like two posts on it, but... Okay, so. People are allowed to call in their friends to come vote in this thread, or to go and poke people who've posted here once and never again, or whatever, to come in and make a vote-without-elaboration. This is totally fine and kosher and the regulars in the thread just have to put up with this and not question or or gripe about it.

Like... I just question this. We just have to put up with the fact that people are going to be poking their friends and etc. And of course everybody is trying to convince everybody else and all.

But. Quoting a person who posted a vote without elaboration and going "Hey, can... etc etc" is not polite and is what gets frowned at? That is where the line gets drawn?

I would argue that actively seeking to draw support from people with no actual interest in the quest would also be poor form, but it's (a) impossible to detect (maybe people have been lurking the thread but still follow the story, which is a perfectly valid mode of engagement) and (b) impossible to enforce (we're not gonna be fucking auditing people's Discord conversations or w/e) so it's, like, not exactly relevant here?

Whereas yeah, pinging someone to change their vote to something unrelated is an action we can see occurring in the thread & ask the responsible party to not do.
 
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