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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Artemis1992 said:
I just hope that everyone voting for the Waystones has by now realised that it will be Mathilde leading a research-project, bringing in experts from several very stubborn factions and trying to get them to work together.

While actual research and possibly even a bit of dungeon-delving for old lore might have a place in the task, it is not the meat of it, so to say. Our further information on the topic was mostly the history of the Eonir and the War of Vengance after all, not a list of practical starts.

It would be sad if anything here wins due to wrong expectations.

Disclaimer: Written to my best understanding of the situation, might be wrong.
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I imagine that there will be an element of choice to how we approach it, as with any other job. Presumably, there will be opportunities for adventure as well, which we may or may not take personally. However, yes, this seems to be mostly about bringing Eonir and Runelords to work together, as well as anyone else that seems relevant but not immediately willing (the Colleges seem already on board)
 
Gavin Prince said:
Wiith regards to Mathilde setting up a religious institution for stopping vampires, I'd note that the first polity she tried that in, everyone working under her hated it and almost rebelled. The second polity where she set up a cult to Ranald has recently posted official notice of a Grudge against the deity signed by the High King.

Her track record on these things is so, so bad for a character with as high a piety score as she has.
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So, third time the charm, eh? :V

(More seriously, while the first case is genuine it was less Ranald that was problem and more Sigmarism suppression, and the second case has nothing to do with Ranaldism. Meanwhile, Sylvania has had historical problems with Sigmarism and the causes which made the first attempt a failure do not apply here.)
 
NSMS said:
The first. The basic idea is to have it project an image using some variant of MMAPP, IIRC. The tricky parts of the idea are creating a spell/enchantment that translates magical data into visual data, and then having a way to do it that doesn't require hundreds or thousands of individual enchantments.
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personally, I think there will need to be multiable lens to change intensity angle, depth etc etc, especially for powerful runesmiths as their natural rejection of magic will warp the image and that needs to be taken into account and created.

so less this:


more this:


not pretty or comfortable.
and Kragg is going to have to sit for hours in a chair as mathy uses inviable magic ink and paper to go 'is this better or this, what about this.... now, is this better or....

but it will work.
 
kingreaper said:
Dwarven windsense is significantly more capable then just "can feel the presence of winds around them" - Kragg could sense the vulnerability we exploited for our Waaagh-ending counterspell. He could sense something had changed after we channelled Mork.

Ultimately Runesmiths seem to have a sense in common with all other magic-users, its just thought of somewhat differently. It may be muted because of the Rune of Valaya, and it may always come through as a tactile sense, but it's far more capable than the "pressure on their magic resistance" interpretation would suggest.

EDIT: I honestly believe that Kragg has better windsense than the average journeyman wizard. But that's worlds away from being as good as Mathilde's.
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While I get your point, there's no evidence Kragg was aware of the vulnerability independently. His statement on it only came after the battle and the debrief were over, so my guess would be that he was told about it when Mathilde reported. And yes, he could tell something changed after Mathilde channelled Mork, but it's been established he can tell different Winds apart by how they're pushed away from him. I don't see why he wouldn't notice that something about Mathilde had changed, even though he clearly didn't know what specifically (because we saw how he reacted when Mathilde told him what would happen, and it wasn't "sit there and not react").
 
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Artemis1992 said:
I just hope that everyone voting for the Waystones has by now realised that it will be Mathilde leading a research-project, bringing in experts from several very stubborn factions and trying to get them to work together. And excercise in Diplomacy over learning or martial.

While actual research and possibly even a bit of dungeon-delving for old lore might have a place in the task, it is not the meat of it, so to say. Our further information on the topic was mostly the history of the Eonir and the War of Vengance after all, not a list of practical starts.

It would be sad if anything here wins due to wrong expectations.

Disclaimer: Written to my best understanding of the situation, might be wrong.
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That's the meat of it at first.
BoneyM said:
The more you think about it, the more it seems like the Waystone project is going to be less about pure research and more about getting all the extant information in one place and getting as many relevant organizations on board as possible, at least at first. There's no chance you'd be able to reverse-engineer the world-spanning masterpiece of the Elves and Dwarves at their heights from scratch - older and wiser than you have tried and failed. The same would likely apply to any given researcher from the Eonir or the Karaz Ankor. But together you might succeed where individually you would all fail.
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It's like a heist movie. First you assemble the crew. You have to wheedle the old brilliant-but-cantankerous guy out of retirement for One! Last! Job!, you have to keep your eye on the smug one who seems to know more than they should, you have to find an earnest youngster who's Inexperienced But By Golly Do They Have Gumption, etc. All of that takes diplomacy. Then you actually tackle the hard problems of the project; you're still exercising that diplomacy to keep the crew together, but you're also doing the actual work that you assembled the crew to do, which will be the research in this particular case.
BoneyM said:
And there's always the many libraries of the Old World and beyond, and the many arms you'd have to twist to get access to the most interesting.
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Also looting libraries. Gotta grind that Bibliothecography skill.
 
picklepikkl said:
It's like a heist movie. First you assemble the crew. You have to wheedle the old brilliant-but-cantankerous guy out of retirement for One! Last! Job!, you have to keep your eye on the smug one who seems to know more than they should, you have to find an earnest youngster who's Inexperienced But By Golly Do They Have Gumption, etc. All of that takes diplomacy. Then you actually tackle the hard problems of the project; you're still exercising that diplomacy to keep the crew together, but you're also doing the actual work that you assembled the crew to do, which will be the research in this particular case.
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Darn. Now I really want to do a "steal Marienberg" bit.
 
Best bet for action against Marienburg would be Bodyguard/Agent.

Dunno if we can manage to steal a library on the side though.
 
silentorphan said:
Darn. Now I really want to do a "steal Marienberg" bit.
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Remember when some people suggested using the Gold College payment for the Skaven stuff for floating Karag Dum back to civilized lands? Do that, but with Marienburg (no, the Wasteland doesn't count as civilized, since they are basically the Netherlands. It's a wild place populated by giants that live underwater.)
 
Just end every argument for Waystones with "...and Marienburg must be destroyed" and you'll probably pick up some spare votes. It's a time-honoured oratorical technique
 
Omegahugger said:
(and yes, I am counting her almost dying against Alkharad and the Khorne campion as mere "training", because that seems like a sentiment that'd bug both of them)
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You're so petty, I love it :D
And of course, after a write-up like that I'm sold and have to shift my votes again.

[x] The Waystone Project
[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[x] Ranaldian High Priest of Kislev
 
Omegahugger said:
So I kinda want to argue in favour of Markgraf yet again.

But first, I feel like I have to say something. Earlier in this discussion (like a hundred pages earlier, sweet Tepok this thread is fast), there were some people who argued in favour of Sylvanian Markgraf on the basis that it "a nice bookend" for Mathilde. I have to disagree with this argument. Calling it a "Bookend" implies that this is the end, that Sylvania is where Mathilde's story ends, and barr a disasterous example of Abeldice that's just not going to happen. Even if you follow the more pessimistic assesstions for how long we'll work on Sylvania, this is the Warhammer universe, it is only a matter of time before some kind of existential threat approaches the Empire/Karaz-Ankor/Karak-8-Peaks and Mathilde is exponentially more likely to die during such an event than she is in any other situation. SV dislikes to risk the life of the protagonist unless there are innocent people to save doing so, you see. A downside of many of us reading Fate/Stay Night in our mallable youth There are still many chapters to come in Divided Loyalties, so we're nowhere near close to making a thematic bow on Mathilde's story.

On the other hand, the posters were absolutely right that right now is the right time for Mathilde to return to Sylvania.

Now, veterans of the thread have probably already guessed where I'm going with this, but we have a lot of new voters coming this vote so bear with me as I explain from the beginning. This is one of those things people will miss if they only read the storyposts unless they are masters of the tiny details, after all.

At this point in time, we're in the year of 2486. The more timesavvy posters can probably give you you the exact month, but we're definitely in the second half of it by now. And that means that a very important anniversary is fast approaching. See, it was in the accursed time of Ulriczeit 2476 that Abelhelm van Hal died, a metaphorically earthshattering event that irrevocably changed the course of Mathilde's life for good. I have at various points, and with varying levels of whining, argued that we should do something to commemorate him, preferably something big that ensures his legacy is remembered.

Well, I'd say that becoming the Markgraf of Sylvania and helping his daughter secure what he gave his life for counts.

But it's not just that it's a nice, round number for Mathilde to return, it's fitting narratively as well. It's very easy to make the argument that her joining up with Belegar wasn't just paying back the people who helped her when things were most dire, it was also training her for this very job. No really, think about it.

In Stirland, Mathilde was an unbalanced character. Her education gave her a high Intrigue and Learning, she had a great Piety all of her own, but her Diplomacy and Stewardship were okay at best and while her Martial was good it was focused on murdering the foes in front of her. This has changed since. Mathilde has solved diplomatic situations between factions that couldn't even speak with eachother. She has a decade of experience wrangling various organisations under her. She has lead armies, armies she was intended to lead even! She has studied the art of anti-Undead tactics and spellcraft. She has acquired an armoury that protects her against the ambient Dhar and can cut through almost any foe. She's practiced fighting in one-on-one duels against superhuman foes like vampires (and yes, I am counting her almost dying against Alkharad and the Khorne campion as mere "training", because that seems like a sentiment that'd bug both of them). Her witchsight has improved to a level where Gabriella absolutely wouldn't be able to hide her humanity from us, and she's even acquired a way to bring the dead back to life just to prove to the Sylvanians that that isn't a valid reason for turning towards necromancy.

The only stat she hasn't grinded the shit out of is Stewardship, which is funny because that's the one she worked the most on while on her first job.

All of it leads towards this point. After ten years of absence, on the very day her Lord fell, Stirland's lost daughter returns to finish what Abel started. Stronger and fitter than ever, with a decade's worth of preparation towards accomplishing what no one thought could be done.

And I... Really want to see that. Really, that's it, it's a story that I'd really like to read about. An image I want featured in this Quest.

I'm not saying that you definitely should vote for Markgraf. These are highly personal reasons, and I'm a contender for the world's greatest Abelhelm Van Hal Fanboy. But I implore you, if any of the above sounds even the least bit interesting to you, would you please at least consider voting for it?

... And if you won't, can we please write a Van Hal biography once we get regular actions again? The people deserve to know just what kind of person saved them.
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Aww man this is a great post. The real issue with Waystone in the lead is people like me who are "anything but Loremaster" and so have approval voted it. So if you really want Markgraf maybe use your amazing effortpost skills against Loremaster too :p
 
Artemis1992 said:
I just hope that everyone voting for the Waystones has by now realised that it will be Mathilde leading a research-project, bringing in experts from several very stubborn factions and trying to get them to work together. And excercise in Diplomacy over learning or martial.

While actual research and possibly even a bit of dungeon-delving for old lore might have a place in the task, it is not the meat of it, so to say. Our further information on the topic was mostly the history of the Eonir and the War of Vengance after all, not a list of practical starts.

It would be sad if anything here wins due to wrong expectations.

Disclaimer: Written to my best understanding of the situation, might be wrong.
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This is, in fact, precisely why it's my second choice.
 
Darth. said:
Any way to convince you to approval vote Markgraf instead?
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I can't speak for others, but I feel like tagging people who post votes without elaboration and asking them to vote for something completely unrelated and in direct competition with what they're actually voting for is kind of poor form? Like, I think it's totally fine to grab people who vote for Count of Sylvania and be like "hey, this isn't really in contention at this point, but Markgraf is!" or people who vote for High Priest and "hey, this isn't in contention either, but Bodyguard is!", since there's an obvious link between "what this person voted for" and "what you are suggesting." But if someone is just dropping in and voting for Waystones without any comment, I dunno, it feels rude to me to say "hey, I know you voted for this, but why don't you instead vote for its opponent?"
 
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