Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
...I don't parse this. Khornate champion uses his anti-magic aura to say no crossbow—which isn't quite how it was shown to work since it didn't even kick in till he got close and Khorne got the upper hand in a fight, but okay—so instead you want to use... magic? Huh?

my understanding is that one of our runes which was to deflect damage we receive was just noped by Khorne anti magic shenanigan's.

If we use a crossbolt with rune magic shouldn't it recieve the same roll to nope it's rune magic out of existence and thus make it a regular, good cross bolt?

Like I read people saying in discussion theirs a god that actually has magic that gives saving rolls against ranged attacks... somehow.

I don't see how turning rune magic into long range changes the dynamic with Khorne possibly saying fuck that shit.

Am i missing something here? what differentiates Khorne noping out long range magic and runic magic on a cross bolt as a long range attack?

Edit: To give a better anology, what stops Khorne from Khorne noping out a fireball at long range compared to rune magic on a cross bolt long range?
 
Last edited:
What the point of a Rune of the unknown on a ammunition for a siege weapon? when the weapon itself is still barley movable.
Or did you all meant for a rune of kragg?
 
A question, please tell me if it has already been anwered.

Is a grudge being declared against Ranald because it is known by the dwarfs that we have a intimate relation with Ranald, or is it because he is the thiefy one of the empire's gods and so presumably would be the one to do any stealing?
 
my understanding is that one of our runes which was to deflect damage we receive was just noped by Khorne anti magic shenanigan's.

If we use a crossbolt with rune magic shouldn't it recieve the same roll to nope it's rune magic out of existence and thus make it a regular, good cross bolt?

Like I read people saying in discussion theirs a god that actually has magic that gives saving rolls against ranged magic... somehow.

I don't see how turning rune magic into long range changes the dynamic with Khorne possibly saying fuck that shit.

Am i missing something here? what differentiates Khorne noping out long range magic and runic magic on a cross bolt as a long range attack?
Well his anti-magic aura didn't actually start kicking in until Khorne got the upper hand in his duel with Ranald—note how Branalhune still works fine for the first round even if the Khornate Champion was just that tought to tank a blow(it's also mentioned at the bottom in Boney's blow-by-blow of the divine fight—and that didn't even start until he noticed us and then also got within melee range. So presumably a sneak attack or even just Alpha Strike could probably work fine. Pure magic hitting him directly would still be lessened, if not outright nullified, because he still had an aura directly
I'm not sure how having a lance on hand makes that more convenient.

Kinda need the thrower.
I think the point was to shoot the lance, then summon it back to your hand and shoot it again? Presumably the lance itself is buffed with extra tunic power or something...

A question, please tell me if it has already been anwered.

Is a grudge being declared against Ranald because it is known by the dwarfs that we have a intimate relation with Ranald, or is it because he is the thiefy one of the empire's gods and so presumably would be the one to do any stealing?
A little bit of both, I think, and Boney has hinted that it may also be Ranald purposefully screwing with them by claiming to have stolen Mathilde's soul.
 
Again, it's still a single shot. It might be closer to the shotgun (well, claymore) niche- clear an area at close range.
Also the eyebrow-singing, and the backblast heat is hell on the skin.
Sure, but it's massively more lethal. It's going to do a better job at creating space in front of us, and in exchange we can't opportunistically shoot at approaching foes (see: gates of Vlag), and we can't reload it before a subsequent fight the same day; but it's pretty rare that we see Mathilde using her revolvers constantly like that, these days. Shadow knives isn't an amazing spell, but it works, and it doesn't take an inventory slot. I do agree we should get runic revolvers to try them out, or even mundane kickflip ones that we can enchant later, but I'm less convinced on keeping them.
Melee is handled by our sword, close/mid range is handled by various spells at this point - it's long range where we lack options.


Check effective range of Olympic target shooting pistols. Around that.
This in reference to our marksdwarf pistol.
The effective range of a competition gun used in the Olympics would be around 50 meters, maybe 75.
If you're using a modern competition pistol (Olympic guns do not use optical/red dot sights) then call it 100 meters, maybe 150 if they're obliging enough to be a large target standing still.

Of course, you can shoot farther than that under the right circumstances, I just mean consistently enough to deal a serious wound. Shooting pistols is very hard relative to shooting a rifle. Shooting a rifle with a bipod is another tier simpler than doing it while standing, which is why I think the Jezail is a good idea.

Once upon a time when the Pashtuns and British were having a go in that land known today as Afghanistan, the Pashtuns started building oversized Jezails using parts from Brown Bess muskets. Their oversized, rifled, black powder guns scored kills fairly reliably at 500 yards, and it created quite a bit of trouble for the British at the time for reasons one can imagine.

Point is, if you go big, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that we could more than triple our effective range. Taking shots from 500 yards when we can teleport, turn invisible, and enchant the gun in question to be silent, is a relatively low risk solution to a lot of potential problems.
 
Sure, but it's massively more lethal. It's going to do a better job at creating space in front of us, and in exchange we can't opportunistically shoot at approaching foes (see: gates of Vlag), and we can't reload it before a subsequent fight the same day; but it's pretty rare that we see Mathilde using her revolvers constantly like that, these days. Shadow knives isn't an amazing spell, but it works, and it doesn't take an inventory slot. I do agree we should get runic revolvers to try them out, or even mundane kickflip ones that we can enchant later, but I'm less convinced on keeping them.
Melee is handled by our sword, close/mid range is handled by various spells at this point - it's long range where we lack options.



This in reference to our marksdwarf pistol.
The effective range of a competition gun used in the Olympics would be around 50 meters, maybe 75.
If you're using a modern competition pistol (Olympic guns do not use optical/red dot sights) then call it 100 meters, maybe 150 if they're obliging enough to be a large target standing still.

Of course, you can shoot farther than that under the right circumstances, I just mean consistently enough to deal a serious wound. Shooting pistols is very hard relative to shooting a rifle. Shooting a rifle with a bipod is another tier simpler than doing it while standing, which is why I think the Jezail is a good idea.

Once upon a time when the Pashtuns and British were having a go in that land known today as Afghanistan, the Pashtuns started building oversized Jezails using parts from Brown Bess muskets. Their oversized, rifled, black powder guns scored kills fairly reliably at 500 yards, and it created quite a bit of trouble for the British at the time for reasons one can imagine.

Point is, if you go big, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that we could more than triple our effective range. Taking shots from 500 yards when we can teleport, turn invisible, and enchant the gun in question to be silent, is a relatively low risk solution to a lot of potential problems.
Yeah, this is why I've been in favor of getting a rifle for like, my entire participation of this quest. Rifles are amazing things that do wonderful stuff to targets very far away, and its so much easier to hit something with a rifle than with a pistol at rather extreme ranges. Now some have said Boney has clarified that its really world record sniping levels of range for the marksdwarf pistol, in which case the rifle wouldn't necessarily be required to do the above kind of stuff, but we'd have to get like, stupid good with the pistol, and the rifle seems like it'd be easier to achieve that level of skill with.
 
I am just speculating here but I think Randal was a major god at one time. He is a extremely old god going back to the founding of Kislev and even being in the Tomb kings still living times. Or at least the 5 th dynasty did. Ask he apparently got rid of several other gods a cording to what the ice witch told us. Also I think it be in character for Randal to hide his power and history from everyone he can.
 
Yes, Nurgle, Ranald is a major god. This isn't a secret. Exactly how many faces he's worn is unknown, but the "X gods are the same god wearing a different hat" theory is probably at least largely correct.

He did just get in a match with Khorne and not lose.
 
Last edited:
This in reference to our marksdwarf pistol.
The effective range of a competition gun used in the Olympics would be around 50 meters, maybe 75.
If you're using a modern competition pistol (Olympic guns do not use optical/red dot sights) then call it 100 meters, maybe 150 if they're obliging enough to be a large target standing still.

That was latter clarified a bit.

World record for longest effective handgun shot is about 1km.
There you go. Limiting factor will be skill, not gun.

That being said I think the general point of it naturally being significantly easier to make longer range shots with a rifle stands. The question is how often is that capability really useful to Mathilde? Generally her style makes it pretty normal and not much more troublesome to get relatively close.
 
Last edited:
I am just speculating here but I think Randal was a major god at one time. He is a extremely old god going back to the founding of Kislev and even being in the Tomb kings still living times. Or at least the 5 th dynasty did. Ask he apparently got rid of several other gods a cording to what the ice witch told us. Also I think it be in character for Randal to hide his power and history from everyone he can.
For as long as there has been laws and societies, there have been people willing to break them. It would make sense if the god who covers that stuff was really freaking old.
Yes, Nurgle, Ranald is a major god. This isn't a secret.

He did just get in a match with Khorne and not lose.
Yeah, that's actually kinda scary when you stop and think about it. Like, take away their situational bonuses and debuffs, and they seemed kinda even in strength. Were, in fact, even regardless. And while it was only a sliver of Khorne's attention present, the same could probably be said for Ranald, even if he threw a bit more oomph behind us for the whole "making amends" thing. I mean, I don't buy Ranald being anywhere near a straight match to Khorne full power to full power, but he's gotta have some power to go four rounds even at this level.
 
Last edited:
Yes, Nurgle, Ranald is a major god. This isn't a secret. Exactly how many faces he's worn is unknown, but the "X gods are the same god wearing a different hat" theory is probably at least largely correct.

He did just get in a match with Khorne and not lose.
I mean it's an understandable mistake. Compared to him Ranald really is a minor god. :V
 
The solution to the coin issue to me seems to be to just say that our god went more than a bit overboard with Vlag because he thought it was funny.

Totally a Ranald thing to do. The coin just gave him an excuse and a focus.
 
A question, please tell me if it has already been anwered.

Is a grudge being declared against Ranald because it is known by the dwarfs that we have a intimate relation with Ranald, or is it because he is the thiefy one of the empire's gods and so presumably would be the one to do any stealing?
Neither. This "grudge" is an attempt to reconcile the prejudice of the old-guard with the contradiction Mathilde represents. She's a magic wielding sneak who has used surprise whenever she could, and makes it work. But for dwarfs, magic=unreliable and human=shoddy, but she's also done more for the dwarfs than just about any other dwarf. She is reliable and she is not shoddy. So the answer is to say that she could be these things because she was a dwarf soul all along! But that requires someone to steal a dwarf soul, so they look at her god of tricksters and thieves and blame him. But actually grudging a non-proscribed god and pissing off the worshipper (who you owe) is bad. So a fiction about judging the benefit from the theft and presto, a square peg goes into a round hole.
 
Speaking of the Protector -
They knew of the dangers she had risked in doing so, not just against the claws and blades of the Daemons, but also the many terrible fates that could befall someone who bends the energies of magic to their will.
Do all of the Expedition Engineers understand the difficulties involved in whipping together some Battle Magic in a year and a half, and then spending half of our waking ours casting it? Because we definitely acted to defend people from the terrain of the Wastes with Rite of Way.

Combined with the mundane gratitude associated with the massive fog road, and we might still get an A for Effort with Zhufbar on the whole bringing back the wagons intact thing.
 
Also, we've straight-up told both Kragg and Belegar that we worship Ranald. We set up a fully-paperworked licensed gambling pub Temple to Him in his Karak. (Before any of the Ancestor Gods got new temples, to boot.) A cursory conversation with the Empires' representative at KaK would let Thorgrim know just what Ranald really stands for, and we're clearly devout.

It's not a big leap, is what I think.
Speaking of the Protector -

Do all of the Expedition Engineers understand the difficulties involved in whipping together some Battle Magic in a year and a half, and then spending half of our waking ours casting it? Because we definitely acted to defend people from the terrain of the Wastes with Rite of Way.

Combined with the mundane gratitude associated with the massive fog road, and we might still get an A for Effort with Zhufbar on the whole bringing back the wagons intact thing.
Well, the criteria we've gotten tends to include words to the effect of 'if you have to explain how the Protector applies, it doesn't apply'.
 
Last edited:
@BoneyM Just to further check Mathilde level of Dwarf Infection... How well does Mathilde like Dwarf Ale and how much can she hold?

And I am not meant Dwarf Ale made to sale in the Empire, I meant true Dwarf Ale the one wich a few pints can sustain a Dwarf Warrior on the march for days or kill the liver of a regular human...

That's mostly a human myth that conflates regular Dwarven ale with ethanol. Marching ale is as nourishing to humans as it is to Dwarves, and no more dangerous to them than any other equally alcohol drink. That said, Mathilde does enjoy a flagon in lieu of meals if she's too occupied with a project to sort something more substantial out.

2) A proper schooling system for humans/halflings in K8P, all the way up to best-human-equivalent teaching for engineering and sciences for the more promising candidate, with the tuition costs being covered by K8P, and all K8P citizens are eligible to attend (and attendance is mandatory up to a certain level of education), as well as any non-K8P human willing to pay for their own tuition (either in money or a mandatory number of years of staying at/serving the Karak). Not only would this provide a pretty serious incentive for people to immigrate to K8P (giving K8P some of what it really needs: people), it'd also create a large number of well-educated people able to take up a bunch of potential professions.

This would severely reduce immigration, and possibly cause people to leave. Why would parents want to trap their children in education for much of their youth instead of them getting a head-start on employment like ten-year-olds do in the Empire?

Karak Eight Peaks is one of the most secure places in the Old World. It is a very defensible major Karak with an army destroying superweapon, a relatively friendly dragon in residence and another very defensible major Karak nearby.

There is no reason to believe that the 'relatively friendly dragon' will do more than say 'have fun' when an enemy starts banging on the doors, which is exactly what they did last time.

When is this, in comparison to the expedition turns? And is this before or after the emergency conclave?

Now. If it wasn't, it would have something to give an idea when it was taking place.

Dwarves under siege have enough food to feed 20,000 people for nearly two centuries without having to go half rations or anything? Where do they even store all this stuff?

Dwarves have crops that thrive in low-light conditions and Runes that can stand in for the sun. They grow crops on the surface when they can because it's more efficient, not because it's mandatory.

@BoneyM is that a viable spell idea?

It says revealing or concealing troop movements. Not facilitating. It could make a vehicle stealthier but it can't create it from scratch.

How did the Empire help the Dwarves, actually? Did they send troops to assist them in battle despite being horribly fractured most of the time? Or was it just the fact that their presence secured one flank and provided opportunity to trade for food and sundry supplies?

It made trade relatively safe, not just with the humans but with other Dwarfholds. It made travel and prospecting and outposts much safer. It meant that much of the Reik basin was populated with humans instead of breeding a steady stream of gribblies, and the gribblies living in the rest of it focused on the humans instead of the Dwarves. It meant trade that wanted to go through Dwarf-controlled passes, causing a stream of passive income. The rise of organized human polities completely changed the Old World, and the largest of them had a religious commandment to be buddies with the Dwarves.

despite some people for some strange reason are adamant in saying, even though it is literally Hidi's end game to change it : Ranald is not an official god of the empire.

He is. His representatives show up to Grand Conclaves and everything. Even when they aren't invited. Even when they move the Grand Conclave without telling anyone to try to prevent them from showing up.

@Boney do dwarves have a concept of life-debts? I.e "i shall serve you all my life?"

No. Debts without a set value are anathema to Dwarven thought, and they believe debts can be inherited, so the whole 'life debt' thing wouldn't make any sense to them.

hey @BoneyM

What level of things would Mathy need to accomplish at this point to eclipse Sigmar in Dwarf rep?

Like is it for instance outright neccesary for Mathilde to kill a everchosen (assuming Archaon or someone else still shows up at some point in the future) or Nagash when he eventually comes back (as he has done like what, 5 times already? Or some shit like that)

Or would it be sufficient if Mathilde somehow reclaimed like, I dunno another 6 major holds?

Save the High King, the Throne of Power, and by extension the entire Karaz Ankor, defeat two separate threats to the entire world, completely redraw the geopolitical landscape of the continent to be much friendlier to the Karaz Ankor, found an extremely widespread religion that has being friendly to the Karaz Ankor as a central tenet. That would get you close to even with Sigmar, from where you'd have to come up with something new to outstrip Him.

By the way, would it be worthwhile to give Kragg an after action report on this? I wonder if he could make use of the information on rune function somehow.

'Cannot trump a Chaos God' is a limitation he's probably already aware of.

@BoneyM What did get written into that letter and/or the messenger knight's oral message?

As head of the Expedition, Borek wrote it. Presumably it said something like 'Vlag's back but doesn't believe it, they could use protection and convincing until they do'.

@BoneyM Whenever I do a reread of the early chapters I notice some typos. Would it be appreciated if I pointed those out, or would you rather I not?

Please do. I correct what I notice when I do a reread but there always seems to be more somehow.

@BoneyM Is mathilde good enough with handguns so that she could use the marksdwarf gun as a sniper tool at her actual level of skill, or will she require more action to train with guns before pulling that off?

If she had time to line up a shot against a stationary target.

Question, but... doesn't the Chaos Cup need daemon blood to function? It occurs to me that that might be the only reason why there was a Daemonette present, As a functional aide for the cup.

It's found full and breaks when it's emptied, so the user doesn't need to supply anything except their thirst.

Do all of the Expedition Engineers understand the difficulties involved in whipping together some Battle Magic in a year and a half, and then spending half of our waking ours casting it? Because we definitely acted to defend people from the terrain of the Wastes with Rite of Way.

No, too abstract.
 
It is worth noting that while they don't worship him hard or as sincerely as other deities, most citizens of the Empire drop a prayer to Ranald at least semi-regularly, and he's also worshipped in other nations as well.

There's a reason random Ranaldian neighborhood watch groups have a genuinely solid track record against inner city Skaven, Vampire rings, Chaos/Khaine cults.

Ranald doesn't fight great, and he's not a solid counter to an evil faction like Morr and Shallya are to Necromancers and Nugle, so its harder to notice his contributions ..... but Ranald is a serious deity.
 
He is. His representatives show up to Grand Conclaves and everything. Even when they aren't invited. Even when they move the Grand Conclave without telling anyone to try to prevent them from showing up.
*snrk*

If anything, I could imagine actually inviting them would cause them to not show up.

Kinda spoils the fun at that point.
 
He is. His representatives show up to Grand Conclaves and everything. Even when they aren't invited. Even when they move the Grand Conclave without telling anyone to try to prevent them from showing up.

This is pretty hilarious. I does change my conception of their status a bit though. I guess it's more along the lines that legally they can't be denied entry, but in practice the other cults try to cut them out as much as feasible?
 
Voting is open
Back
Top