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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Redshirt Army said:
Blowing up the Dum Dwarves door doesn't seem like it would make them inclined to cooperate with us, nor would it help them last longer against the Chaos Wastes.
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If only we, the person capable of casting Smoke and Mirrors, could get through a door without blowing it up
Mopman43 said:
It'd be more like, figuring out which blank bit of wall on the whole Karag is actually the door.
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If only we, the person who managed to use Windsight through solid stone, which as we all know is an excellent insulator of magic, could figure out where the door is
 
Guile said:
If only we, the person who managed to use Windsight through solid stone, which as we all know is an excellent insulator of magic, could figure out where the door is
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Mathilde was looking at one of the biggest streams of magic in the world.

In this hypothetical, she'd be trying to see magically inert Dwarfs past the magically inert door.

If there's no Winds, her Windsight is not going to come in handy.
 
Mopman43 said:
When she's looking for magic. Giant amounts of magic, really.

She can't see Runic magic, and she's never had to find a hidden entrance into a Karag(k).
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She could find where the waystone drinking huge amounts of magic is, probably. I dunno. We'll never know what Mathilde could do to get inside, because we didn't try.
GrimTheMad said:
As far as I recall, we never actually had the option to not take the Brass Orb, or to get rid of it until we sold all the Skaven tech. Certainly no plan to study it ever got any sort of traction.

As to the Dreaded Thirteenth- Magic users among Skaven are rare, and pretty obvious to Mathilde, and then those than can use that spell are likely even rarer. I think the risk of running into that was pretty minimal, unlike the risk of mutating when around Morghur the Corrupter.
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I think it's equally as unlikely to run into one demigod in a miles-wide forest as to run into a Skaven magic user, and he'd be equally as obvious to Mathilde.
 
Do we know how a wagon failing to pass would affect the chances of the next one, or how multiple wagons failing would affect it?

I kinda want to run the numbers, but i suspect that running through that corner again, even without an facing an ambush at the same time, would be the most dangerous thing we could face if it followed the same pattern as the original crossing.
 
Guile said:
She could find where the waystone drinking huge amounts of magic is, probably. I dunno. We'll never know what Mathilde could do to get inside, because we didn't try.
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We didn't try because the risk vs. reward ratio was far more risk and less reward than most times. We'd be trying to break into a dwarfhold that we don't know the layout of and that doesn't leave the doors open, meaning that we'd be forced to gamble on Substance of Shadow getting us into a shadowy tunnel rather than either getting lost in the rock or getting splinched as we enter a lit corridor.

All to probably just confirm that yes there were dwarves in there (Borek didn't go slayer and actually went into the karag and didn't intend to come out - so he clearly expected to find living dwarves) and that no they weren't interested in talking to a Zhufi about their forbidden secrets.

And then we'd be riding through the chaos wastes solo.

Guile said:
I think it's equally as unlikely to run into one demigod in a miles-wide forest as to run into a Skaven magic user, and he'd be equally as obvious to Mathilde.
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The demigod in question specifically targets magic users on a battlefield wide range. That suggests (although it doesn't require) an ability to sense their presence within that radius. Making it far more likely that he'd actively run into us.


Ultimately Mathilde (aka the thread) decided that it wasn't worth the risk. I get that you disagree with the majority of the people in the thread, but given as the vote is over and done with perhaps you should look towards the future rather than concentrating on how we've made a horrible mistake?
 
kingreaper said:
We didn't try because the risk vs. reward ratio was far more risk and less reward than most times. We'd be trying to break into a dwarfhold that we don't know the layout of and that doesn't leave the doors open, meaning that we'd be forced to gamble on Substance of Shadow getting us into a shadowy tunnel rather than either getting lost in the rock or getting splinched as we enter a lit corridor.

All to probably just confirm that yes there were dwarves in there (Borek didn't go slayer and actually went into the karag and didn't intend to come out - so he clearly expected to find living dwarves) and that no they weren't interested in talking to a Zhufi about their forbidden secrets.

And then we'd be riding through the chaos wastes solo.


The demigod in question specifically targets magic users on a battlefield wide range. That suggests (although it doesn't require) an ability to sense their presence within that radius. Making it far more likely that he'd actively run into us.


Ultimately Mathilde (aka the thread) decided that it wasn't worth the risk. I get that you disagree with the majority of the people in the thread, but given as the vote is over and done with perhaps you should look towards the future rather than concentrating on how we've made a horrible mistake?
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I disagree with you on almost every point here, but instead of making those arguments I'm going to ask you to just stop relitigating the previous vote, please.
 
das_slash said:
Do we know how a wagon failing to pass would affect the chances of the next one, or how multiple wagons failing would affect it?

I kinda want to run the numbers, but i suspect that running through that corner again, even without an facing an ambush at the same time, would be the most dangerous thing we could face if it followed the same pattern as the original crossing.
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Can't see any reason the chances would change - no-one managed to come up with a viable trick to help with getting down. If anything they'd be worse because we'd also be contending with the chance of kurgan raiders deciding to hit us while we're vulnerable.
 
das_slash said:
Do we know how a wagon failing to pass would affect the chances of the next one, or how multiple wagons failing would affect it?

I kinda want to run the numbers, but i suspect that running through that corner again, even without an facing an ambush at the same time, would be the most dangerous thing we could face if it followed the same pattern as the original crossing.
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Each attempt had a chance to make the following attempt riskier:

BoneyM said:
With bated breath, three hundred sets of eyes watch as the freshly-unloaded Kriestov noses its way forward. With its engine struggling to get up to steam on an incline it was always going to be slow, but given the circumstance it seems like very understandable hesitance. The remaining portion of the road seems far too narrow for the steam-wagon to slip past and you find yourself holding your breath as it slowly noses its way forward...

[Rolling...]

...and through, allowing you to finally exhale. But the wait for the Alexis to be unloaded and de-crewed allows tension to mount once more and you're just as nervous the second time...

[Rolling...]

...though, thankfully, for nothing. With the remaining steam-wagons reunited, the Dwarves scramble to reload the cargo so that the Expedition can finally get moving again and start to make up for lost time. The impact of the Urmskaladrak could have rung the dinner bell for any Kurgans or Ogres or who knows what else might be in the area, and right now your best defence against them is to be elsewhere.
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Each attempt had a chance to make the following attempt riskier:
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Yeah, but i meant, numerically, like it would turn it into 1-2=fall, 3+=pass, or 1-2= fall, 3=next Attempt riskier, 4+ =pass? because that would make a huge difference.

Anyway, at a glance, we have like 20% of all wagons making it through, which is super bad, that pass was a fucking death sentence.
 
das_slash said:
Yeah, but i meant, numerically, like it would turn it into 1-2=fall, 3+=pass, or 1-2= fall, 3=next Attempt riskier, 4+ =pass? because that would make a huge difference.

Anyway, at a glance, we have like 20% of all wagons making it through, which is super bad, that pass was a fucking death sentence.
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The roll table is in the dice roller link. It's 1 = Fall, 2 = Next Riskier, 3+ = Pass

Edit: Oh, you were referring to if we rolled a 2 first. I'd expect it to turn 50-50, tbh.
 
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Guile said:
If only we, the person capable of casting Smoke and Mirrors, could get through a door without blowing it up
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If only blind teleports weren't suicidal.
If only we, the person who managed to use Windsight through solid stone, which as we all know is an excellent insulator of magic, could figure out where the door is
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If only someone would conveniently put a magical beacon radiating "empty corridor here" in what would otherwise be empty and lifeless, with no winds to see.


Guile said:
I think it's equally as unlikely to run into one demigod in a miles-wide forest as to run into a Skaven magic user, and he'd be equally as obvious to Mathilde.
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We can counterspell the skaven magic, and probably kick his ass. We have no protection against "and suddenly casting magic turns you into chaos spawn."
 
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King Arthur said:
Hook a giant array of these up to a targeting system similar to what the Eye of Gazul has so it doesn't hit Dwarves/Humans/the We, stick it in key locations underground, and this basically makes any underground invasion, at least those that pass through those locations, an incredibly Difficult campaign for the invaders.
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I guess if you rigged them up to mounts like flood light arrays and shuffled them around they could be useful, but as static defences I think they'd flounder - all you'd need is a blackout curtain, smoke bomb, tower shield, etc, etc. If you're constantly moving them around and surprising attackers with them, then that sounds handy.

Ericwinter said:
...Guys, what would we even do with more dwarf favor? Mathilde's kind of already as beloved as she's going to get.
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Well, we could always invent the flying aircraft carrier.

Resonant said:
Huh, just noticed that the path of the Black Blood Pass goes awfully close to Clan Moulder's underground Capital of Hell Pit. Maybe Mathilde will get a chance to visit undercover and bring Qrech some souvenirs?
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Hellpit is not the kind of place you want to casually visit. Even if you're a Skaven.

Mopman43 said:
Course, they might just be dead.
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If they were still kicking in significant numbers in those locales, I think they would have managed to get some sort of message down through Kislev. Traumatized survivors hiding in cellars and mineshafts, on the other hand...

13th Fleet said:
I mean, I would not be surprised if BoneyM decides to make the fate of the Norse Dwarfs be something other than canon's "all these Dwarf holds that have stood for thousands of years are wiped out in a less than a year."
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Alternatively, Boney found a suitably horrific explanation for how that might have come to pass!

Omegahugger said:
Dwarves sacrificing Norscans to the Old Ones, good sign or bad sign?
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Honestly? There are sects of the Cult of Sotek that... can be worked with. As long as you're a Human, Elf, Lizard, or Dwarf anyway. Some of them would be plenty happy to help you out as long as you help them ritually sacrifice all the Skaven for mucking up the Great Plan.

Andres110 said:
There's a very real chance this quest will never come back to this. Boney was asked if he'd reveal things if the quest ended and he said no, and I suspect that's to do with how he's got the next quest OP written up and it's set in the same universe as Divided Loyalties. This quest may never come back to the mystery of Karag Dum because it may be relevant or come up in the successor quest.
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I think the only way we're ever coming back to Dum is if we work towards building some sort of flying Ironclad. Even then, we're going to be running into the problem of advertising 'epic fight over here' the whole way. I have no idea how stealthy enchantment and battlemagic could make such a craft, so it's a big question mark.
 
Windherder Enchantment Idea List.
Confirmed possibilities are marked, everything else is speculative.

Grey+Gold:
Eye of the Beholder(RS)+Fool's Gold (MC): Target object is actually irresistibly valuable now. - Shard

Shadow Knives(FC) +Silver Arrows (MC): Enchant a crossbow to fire armour-piercing homing bolts.

Bewilder (RS) + Guard of Steel (RS) = Bronze Orbs that in addition to protecting you, also seriously disorient anyone hostile to you. Constantly. -Shard

Stoke the Forge + Burning Shadows = Target Fires burns hotly with a Burning Shadows effect. Very lethal. - Shard

Aethyric Armour + Guard of Steel = Two seperate defensive effects that can be used together. - Jyn Ryvia - Confirmed

Marksdwarf pistol from Zhufbar + Illusion(FC) + Enchant Item(FC): Silenced supergun -Picklepikkl

Grey+Jade
Shadowsteed (RS) + The Wild's Undisturbed (MC): Creates a shadowsteed leaves no trail and passes through wilderness

Shadowsteed (RS) + Tree-dweller's Step (RS) = Shadowsteed that can climb? - Shard

Take No Heed/Shroud of Invisibility/Shadowcloak + The Wilds Undisturbed (MC) = Super Sneak through forests - Shard

Grey+Celestial
Illusion(FC) + Polish-Clean-And-Gleam(RS): A self-cleaning silenced rifle - Klaus

Aethyric Armour + Wings of Heaven (MC): Robes of flight - Jyn Ryvia - Confirmed possible but inadvisable

Grey+Bright:
Bewilder(RS)+Choleric(RS): Target becomes confused, with the only clarity being their anger at one target.

Shadow Daggers(FC) + Fireball (MC) - Shadow Daggers that explode when they hit. - Confirmed

Grey+Amber
Dread Aspect(FC) + The Ox Stands (MC): Makes the user utterly terrifying, but makes their allies immune to terror.

Shadowcloak (RS) + Form of the Soaring Raven (RS): User turns into a particularly stealthy raven.

Grey+Light
Pall of Darkness (MC) + Eyes of Truth (FC): You are likely to be eaten by a Grue - creates a Pall of Darkness and lets you see through it.

Grey+Amethyst
Mantle of Mist (Arcane Mark) + Ward Against Abomination (MC): When Incense is burned within the Dämmerlichtreiter thurible the smoke that it releases carries the warding effect against the undead. a skilled user can almost blanket the walls of a small town or village in its glowing smoke - Jyn Ryvia - Confirmed


3-mage projects: Using two winds that aren't Ulgu requires three mages, one per wind+mathilde, and is thus automatically more dangerous
Bright+Jade
Barrel of Ferment(RS)+Taste of Fire(RS) - Converts any liquid, no matter how foul or brackish, into strong booze- Businessmanga

Amethyst+Jade
Death's Door(FC) + Seed of Regrowth(Battle): This would theoretically solve the problem of our opponent being able to stop us from regenerating after they kill us, by allowing us to keep fighting while we heal. - Klaus - Confirmed to be attemptable

Light+Gold
Inspiration(MC) + Law of Logic(RS): An initial boost of creativity and then Law of Logic to allow them to develop the concept to fruition. -Alratan

Things you might be surprised are possible: We can use Arcane Marks in enchantments

Things we definitely can't do: Combine Aethyric Armour with anything that makes armour stronger.
Combine Mindhole with effects of other winds to change its targeting.
 
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kingreaper said:
Eye of the Beholder(RS)+Fool's Gold (MC): Target object is actually irresistibly valuable now. - Shard
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I think we had confirmation that any sort of enchanted item which involves a willpower check from its' parent spell would have a low threshold to resist, and that's going to greatly limit the usefulness of this one in particular.

kingreaper said:
Illusion(FC) + Polish-Clean-And-Gleam(RS): A self-cleaning silenced rifle - Klaus
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kingreaper said:
Marksdwarf pistol from Zhufbar + Illusion(FC) + Enchant Item(FC): Silenced supergun -Picklepikkl
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These two interest me, especially because I'd love to investigate the possibility of using Vitae as a cleaner substitute to warpstone propellant in a gun. As a payload too, but given how well it gets along with sudden shocks I don't see there being a viable means to making that work.
 
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