NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Also fair. I just figured someone would probably bring it up if and when the time came, and wanted to make sure before I let myself get my hopes up when the thought entered my head. It would have made me much more willing to risk even going for the slave halls if I thought we had enough money to back buying everyone there.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I have zero intention of visiting Uzkulak again.
It'd just lead to the same arguments as last time, and we'd still be incapable of actually doing anything about it.*
Feels like just digging for misery.
(*barring going full necromancer or whatever, which is completely unacceptable to me given what it'd do to the quest as a whole.)
It'd just lead to the same arguments as last time, and we'd still be incapable of actually doing anything about it.*
Feels like just digging for misery.
(*barring going full necromancer or whatever, which is completely unacceptable to me given what it'd do to the quest as a whole.)
That's right, because clearly, we need to go visit Numas on our roadtrip with Cython! The Mortuary Cult knows such interesting things, and has such a long memory...
- Location
- some computer lab
I had the thought that Karag Dum might have sealed their windows long ago to prevent insanity from staring into the chaos wastes and/or chaos taint coming in through them, in which case they could neither recieve nor send semaphore signals. We are a Thane and Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks, them refusing us entry once we get there is a Grudging, they might not be able to turn off their beastman defense system though.
This guy seems way less hardcore than Examplarius. The only thing concerning is the fear test when entering forests and terror, but with 28 piety, the brave trait, and the belt, this seems doable. I admit I haven't played tabletop warhammer in a long time, so I could be mistaken.
It really isn't. Kings have the final say in who does and does not enter their Hold. The only exception would be an explicitly an envoy of the High King, and even then their responsibility would be limited to cracking the door open enough for a message to be recited or handed over.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It...could work. Yes...Ariel first sensed Morghur as the birth of a terrible thing into the world a few centuries after the Time of Woes (I'll look up a more exact time when I can), and if anything in this theory might have allowed Morghur to escape in around that time, or at least loosened the bonds enough for him to start, it would have been that cataclysm. Or perhaps he escaped immediately following the Time of Woes, by suicide or his captured spirit (not his form) doing so and the Runemasters spent a long time holding him back until they could no longer stop him from reincarnating into some poor soul, to which Ariel sensed him. And Runemaster is an easy mix of the Runelords/Smiths and Loremaster titles from each race.
I'm not so sure about the Elven gods worship idea, but the first bit would fit quite a few things in the greater lore and the worldbuilding of this quest, as well as other plausible theories suggested.
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[x] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Leave
[x] Leave
Guile
Having a really great time right now
He's not much of a leader or a fighter for a guy who blocks you from having a general in your army, or mortals, or daemons, and might Chaos Spawn all your own dudes. He seems more like a puzzle boss that changes the nature of how his army functions.
I kinda like heroes like that, though; the big complaint about Belegar on tabletop is that he's basically just a stronger Dwarf Lord.
- Location
- some computer lab
yeah, it's also interesting that the Chaos spawn on spellcasting is only on Miscasts, makes me feel a lot more cinfident that we can get by with Illusion + invisibility + maybe smoke and mirrors without getting instagibbed.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Well, considering how scared Mathilde was, I don't know if we can count on tabletop rules.
But I admit I also felt like people were blowing his powers out of proportion.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
He's way worse. The chaos spawn isn't just a save or die, it's a save or start fighting everyone around you. It's even worse than an explosion, as the rest of your troops have to deal with killing the new chaos spawn. You can't kill him from a great distance, as projectiles just fail. You you'll lose tons of soldiers attacking him from up close, as even if you don't fail your roll, your buddy might, then attack you. And magic anywhere in the battlefield now might instagib you, with the same problem of turning into chaos spawn and attacking allies. All your troops are scared of him as well. He's an army killer by himself.
Meanwhile, the rest of the herd is also attacking, and any sort of organized line might get suddenly screwed up by a chaos spawn appearing.
If anyone thinks his powers aren't that bad, he is the equal of the
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- Location
- NYC
I think earlier in this arc I didn't realize quite how small the expedition is to be honest. And that everyone on it is on some level okay with the possibility of dying ignominiously if, say, the Dolgans or any of the other tribes decided to be particularly pissy towards us. (Well, it's already worth it for the return of Vlag it sounds like but before they knew that)
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If the High King himself showed up would they be obligated to let him all the way in?
- Location
- NYC
This reminds me of Mathilde's conversation with Gunnars about how Dwarves gain their resistances towards magic and chaos.
- Location
- Russia
Perhaps, but numerology fails to account for any other strategic variables and could be easily misinterpreted - see Qrech's opinion on Mors-Moulder-Drazh Orcs-Dwarves conflict - Moulder (IIRC) thought this was "4 for feed", but actually it was two threes because of dispositions and by their attack they exposed themselves. These are interesting shortcuts for "conflict of spheres in vacuum" situation, but trying to fit reality into them often would become more tedious than just conducting analysis from scratch.
I'm too late for the vote discussion, but still:
That wizards only spawnify on miscast instead of about every spell is very significant and making me willing to risk consequences by experimenting with casting casting here.
Of course it's purely OOC knowledge, and I wouldn't imply that Boney's world works exactly like in wargame, but I have two theories as to how this effect might work:
1) Wizards draw ambient energies of their Wind(s) and with them Chaos energies from Morghur, destabilising magic within them and inducing spawndom.
2) Morghur's aura vastly amplifies magic gone chaosy, i.e. miscasts, inducing spawndom.
Second theory seems more plausible to me overall (any surviving wizard filtrates their magic from Dhar/Chaos energies/whatever). Actually this may include escalating magic chaosiness overall, therefore inducing more miscasts, which is something to be worried still, especially considering this:
is basically description of a (handled) miscast, that potentially could be from Morghur's aura, as well as from shock as Mathilde thought.
Still, the important consequence would be that spawndom is only possible when miscasting is possible. Therefore, cast-and-forget spells - like Shadowsteed - wouldn't induce spawndom by merely existing effect, and enchanted items would be safe to use. Therefore checking this theory, by testing how our enchanted items and cast-and-forget spells' effects behave among other things, is important to enable using some of the important Mathilde's abilities (Shadowsteed) and more free use of spellcasting in general. Considering that this "Morghur" lacks any other manifestations of his Chaos aura, I'm willing to risk here.
@BoneyM would testing enchanted items fall under "volunteer to test Morghur's ability" vote, and I presume Mathilde would test cast-and-forget spells' behaviour if this option (somehow) would win?
[x] Volunteer to test Morghur's reputed ability to turn anyone using magic nearby into Chaos Spawns
[x] Approach the Kul camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[x] Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with
[x] Attempt to scout the forest at the base of the Karak
[x] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak with magic
[x] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak without magic
[x] Attempt to intercept a Kurgan war-party en route to attack the Karag and the Beastmen
[x] Ask for a volunteer to test Morghur's reputed ability to turn anyone using magic nearby into Chaos Spawn
- Location
- some computer lab
Well yeah, in terms of armies it is probably worse, although beastmen don't have great leadership themselves IIRC. I was just confused as to why people were acting like he would instakill mathilde if he caught her, no questions asked, while the actual stats make it seem like as long as she does not rout she can just kill him, heck, according to these stats he is not normally even cognizant enough to move in the right direction, much less catch up to us reliably if he spots us.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
He doesn't have to even notice us to instagib us. If Mathilde miscasts anywhere that would be considered on the same battlefield as him, she's instagibbed. He also, lorewise (the game is designed to be balanced), can't be injured permanently by normal means. In lore, killing him was beyond the Avatar of Isha, who had to draw on the forest's power to do so, and even that wasn't permanent. None of the elves weapons could even harm him.
Also, given that the winds look like a kaleidoscope, the chances of us miscasting seem even higher than normal. And note that we probably are usually okay with slight miscasts occasionally, but even a slight miscast is insta death.
Casting magic is stupid under such conditions. Don't do it until we are sure that it is safe. Fortunately, by waiting a day, we can see what happens to spellcasters from the hopefully attacking other tribes. If we don't see magic cast, that also tells us that they had good reason not to bring the shaman, or the shaman knew not to cast, so that's evidence it's not safe.
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The right of the High King is to travel freely within the Karaz Ankor, but the responsibility of the High King is to preserve the rights of the Kings of the Karaz Ankor, including their right to say who can and cannot enter their Hold. So it's a grey area.
She'll do everything in her power to maximize information gained while minimizing risks.
In a one-on-one fight Mathilde might kill Morghur. Or her lungs might mutate into new legs first. Or her arm could fall off, mutate into a Chaos Spawn, and try to kill her. Or one of the skulls in his beard could gibber brain-scorching secrets and she stands their paralysed while Morghur tears her apart.
Seriously considering a threadwide ban on posting any tabletop statlines because this is the kind of thing it leads to, people disregarding everything said IC and OOC and looking at the raw numbers and saying 'our number is bigger than his number, what's the problem?'
Luckily we brought a spare.
For what it's worth I think it would improve the tone of the discussion. It's one thing to talk about lore, that can come up with interesting theories, this is just a glorified versus debate using a system we are not using for this quest.