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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Thomasfoolery said:
I don't think there's really much reason to hope they attack so frequently we'll get to see it just by waiting 24 hours. Just based on how long the siege has been going on it seems implausible, as we seem to be southerly enough that demographics hold some sway still. The fact that the sand has some amount of conversion power makes it harder to tell, but that our scouts checking the area with telescopes noticed no sign of recent combat in the area or on the stone where they'd retreat to is also an indicator it's not happening all the time.
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Well, first, one of our options is 'intercept a raiding party', so it must be happening with enough regularity for that to at least be feasible.

Second:

BoneyM said:
"Ah. You seek to test yourself against the Dum?" he asks.

You consider your response for a moment. "Yes," you reply, which is true, to a certain extent.

[Rolling...]

"All are welcome against the Dum," he says. "The Kul and the Kvellige are there now, but the southern front is available to you."

"What state is Dum in?" you ask.

He gives you an odd look. "Dum is as it has always been."
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Two tribes are actively campaigning right now.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
And why would they leave the big Metal things just standing there, threatening their rear?
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"WITNESS ME!"? :V

It sounds like they do this as a kind of death or glory pilgrimage rather than an actual siege with thoughts of victory, so they might just not care.
 
Rafin said:
I thought the current prevailing theory was that this is due to Beastman cannibalism. And things like broken armor, spears amd arrows, useless ornaments and personal items, ripped cloth and saddles are all not things that Beastmen would care to eat and loot more than bones.

If the bones seem clean due to time passed then that completely makes me reconsider the frequency that anything like attrition against Chaos Marauders who try to test themselves against the Dum actually happens.

And if frequent raids do still happen and yet there is also no garbage lying around, just sand and bones, then something much more fuckybis going on. Something like the desertification field affecting everything but bone for instance.
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They gorged on the spot, they wouldn't have picked the bones clean, so flesh would have remained that has since disappeared from time or some other mechanism. Broken things can be smelted down and reforged, the Kurgan don't really mine so every scrap of useful material is reused whenever possible, and leather is edible if you're sufficiently hungry or not choosy.
 
I straight up don't think we have the data to make a definitive call on *whats going on gang*
We need to give the Beastmen the opportunity to demonstrate if they're chaos purified/ different then the regular beastmen, so it's a matter of wait and see.

We can try bringing them a nice cow if nothing happens, and see if that works.
 
GrimTheMad said:
Well, first, one of our options is 'intercept a raiding party', so it must be happening with enough regularity for that to at least be feasible.
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It's to "Attempt" to do that, all the information we have has been shown in the updates, and we've seen no raiding parties. We have no guarantees about their future availability.

GrimTheMad said:
Two tribes are actively campaigning right now.
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They're there, what they're doing we really don't know, could be they only go for it on holy days or something.
 
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If we meet with the other tribes it can be under pretext of setting up who gets to attack Col Dum first or something. We can also get more information about Morghur's abilties.

If we intecept them than, since everyone is cautious about doing magic, our army must fight without wizard support. or at the least the wizards are on counterspelling duty until the warband uses magic first, which will tell us if using magic is safe.

We can also offer the beastmen some cows, and observe the affect mockery of death has on the cow in combination with Karak Dum and Morghur. Or we can use a minor magical artifact that uses magic as a experiment.
 
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Rafin said:
If the bones seem clean due to time passed then that completely makes me reconsider the frequency that anything like attrition against Chaos Marauders who try to test themselves against the Dum actually happens.

And if frequent raids do still happen and yet there is also no garbage lying around, just sand and bones, then something much more fucky is going on. Something like the desertification field affecting everything but bone for instance.
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It was stated that there were two tribes campaigning, but that the southern front (where we are) was open at the moment. So the particular area we are looking at is probably not representative of how often raids appear. They'd be coming from a different direction, so we'd need to range a lot farther to see more recent remains.
 
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People!

I've just caught up and like every third post for the last 30 pages has been pinging Boney! Let the guy rest!

We don't really need to know any more than we already have UNLESS it leads to a different course of action, so please consider before hitting the @ button.




matvprok said:
It's really just a curiosity, seriously applying skaven numerology to strategic analysis is just silly.
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I dunno- it seems like a plausible set of quasi-stable equilibra in multi-player prisoners dilemma games. I liked it a lot, but the key to the quasi-stablility is the assurance that each player WILL choose betray if it benefits them, so there's no point in opening with cooperation in the hopes of a long-term alliance.

Aranfan said:
The thread is moving too fast, and I don't have the spoons to keep up with it.

What have I missed?
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Not a lot. I missed a bunch too, but I read since the update and it's mostly shouting about relative riskiness.

There's a fun new apocryphal bit, which I was really touched by the opening of especially.

So thanks for that, @Exmorri , and if I could give one suggestion is would be to seperate each incident with an empty line. I found myself running a few together and getting confused for a moment.
 
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BoneyM said:
I must have missed it, that doesn't ring a bell. No clothes or equipment to be found, which isn't unexpected. Whichever side won any battle would take anything useful, and if the flesh is long gone the clothes would be too.
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@BoneyM If we vote to stay, can we go toss a yard stick across the lip of the crater to see whether the effect will eat foreign objects in its' path, or should we assume someone has already put something down and it's just a matter of waiting for results?

On another note,

JowKeen said:
Karak Zorn is old and was near Nehekara when it was still standing.

Karak Dum was known for remembering things others forgot. Perhaps pre-Ancestors knowledge?
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Yep, I think there might be a connection as well. I don't know if it's Nehekharan, but perhaps at least it's related to Karak Zorn.

Time for the nightly grind to catch up...
 
Rafin said:
If the bones seem clean due to time passed then that completely makes me reconsider the frequency that anything like attrition against Chaos Marauders who try to test themselves against the Dum actually happens.
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The two tribes besieging the place are coming from a different direction, northeast and northwest. I suppose these ones we're inspecting are from a much earlier raid.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
Right, following up on this. (original theorrizing)

[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

[X] Attempt to intercept a Kurgan war-party en route to attack the Karag and the Beastmen
-[X] With ranger support

First two are mainly because those are leading votes that don't hurt the situation. The last is my real aim: Proccing The Protector and trying to see if it will change Cor-Dum's stance towards us (and the rangers we take with us). If shit is whack down there such that it's dangerous to follow, it won't matter and we'll eventually have to pack up and leave, but if we're being told to keep our distance simply because we're outsiders, Ranald's Coin might be the foot in the door we need to change that.

[X] Propose new theory: Whatever the reason, Cor-Dum currently does not want us to approach.
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Good enough for me. A link to what convinced me to change vote.
[X] Propose new theory: Whatever the reason, Cor-Dum currently does not want us to approach.

[X] Attempt to intercept a Kurgan war-
party en route to attack the Karag and the Beastmen
-[X] With ranger support

[x] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
 
GrimTheMad said:
It sounds like they do this as a kind of death or glory pilgrimage rather than an actual siege with thoughts of victory, so they might just not care.
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Hmm. I'm curious how such a "death or glory" pilgrimage works for tribes that control vast territories adjacent to the Dum while also still having more conventional rivals at their borders and probably also their fair share of internal rivalries.

If it is anything like personal choice, reward or punishment then the actual raiding parties sent out by the encampments should be fairly small. The encampments themselves are then either also very small or they are more akin to the nomad equivalent of pilgrimage towns. If the tribes take this siege seriously then they might have gathered forces here like Abelheim did against Sylvania and we are witnessing a relatively rare event.

Or maybe Khorne is a fertility god after all.
BoneyM said:
They gorged on the spot, they wouldn't have picked the bones clean, so flesh would have remained that has since disappeared from time or some other mechanism. Broken things can be smelted down and reforged, the Kurgan don't really mine so every scrap of useful material is reused whenever possible, and leather is edible if you're sufficiently hungry or not choosy.
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Leather might be. Padded cloth might also be for Beastmen, I don't know. Wood, stone and weird Waste-derived materials though? And dyed fibers definitely rot away slower than flesh. As evident by all the banners that are still standing. If the banners on (presumably) wooden poles are still around, but neither the broken wooden armaments (bows, spears, shields) nor the sturdier cloth items (cloth armor, horse blankets, banners that were actually carried into battle and trampled) are, then I am definitely calling shenanigans at this desert.
Katahiraga said:
If we meet with the other tribes it can be under pretext of setting up who gets to attack Col Dum first or something. We can also get more information about Morghur's abilties.
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We can even do it under the pretext that we are newbs from Norsca and want to learn how this game is played.
Guile said:
The two tribes besieging the place are coming from a different direction, northeast and northwest. I suppose these ones we're inspecting are from a much earlier raid.
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Hmm. The Yusak not having done this pilgrimage since literally decades might be why they are (perceived to be) in trouble with the gods.
 
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BoneyM said:
They gorged on the spot, they wouldn't have picked the bones clean, so flesh would have remained that has since disappeared from time or some other mechanism. Broken things can be smelted down and reforged, the Kurgan don't really mine so every scrap of useful material is reused whenever possible, and leather is edible if you're sufficiently hungry or not choosy.
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This actually makes me thinK, but... are there any banners in the desert itself? Or only outside of it?
 
Oh! And question to those who are familiar with the stat lines of the characters:

Assuming Mathilde walked up to Morghur, and did not mutate, would the Rune of Superior Skill shut down the battle-field wide you cast=you mutate field? And if so, are we in a position to win a fight with Morghur sans magic suppression and mutation field?

Assuming we'd just force him into respawn, and possible disrupt what's keeping him here, and possibly cost the dwarves a protector, but... Is it a winnable fight?
 
Glau said:
Oh! And question to those who are familiar with the stat lines of the characters:

Assuming Mathilde walked up to Morghur, and did not mutate, would the Rune of Superior Skill shut down the battle-field wide you cast=you mutate field? And if so, are we in a position to win a fight with Morghur sans magic suppression and mutation field?

Assuming we'd just force him into respawn, and possible disrupt what's keeping him here, and possibly cost the dwarves a protector, but... Is it a winnable fight?
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Probably not to the first. I wouldn't try it to the others.

We'd have to try it to find out anyway. TT is an idea of capabilities at best, not a guideline, certainly not here.
 
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Rereading, looking into experiences we've had with runic construction.
Kragg talking with Mathy about the preparation to fire the doom tower.

"Suitable," he admits after long scrutiny. "Not how I prefer things, but suitable. All this requires is to be as perfect a channel as can be made between the Rune below and the magics above, and all that makes it tricky is the volume of power that it needs to be able to bear. These Runes will do the job, you can be certain."

"But?" you prompt, checking the wooden beams yourself. They are currently inert, but you can feel the energy contained in the room below, pressure pushing against a sealed door that will be opened when the moment is right.

"But that's only a third of the picture," he says, rapping his knuckles on the steel plate. "The Runes are as good as I can make them, and Gazul can be depended upon. But the rest is up to your magic." He looks at you seriously, or as seriously as one can when both parties are lying on their back in a crawlspace and looking sideways at each other. "You're a reliable sort, more so than some Dwarves I've known. But the source of your power is unfettered and whimsical. It's why you've power despite barely entering your fourth decade, and it's why you've been able to do as much as you've done. But-" he looks to the lantern that flickers uneasily in his grip, and then to your shadow cast by his lantern, or what little he can see of it as it peaks out from behind you, hiding from the Runelord's scrutiny. "It's betrayed you in the past, and it will in the future."

You fight back a frown at his words. As much as you consider Ulgu to be yours, he's not wrong, and your recent forays into even the simplest of Battle Magics reinforce his point. You have not tamed Ulgu, you have merely made yourself a conduit to its liking, and all energies born of the Aethyr are capable of capriciousness. "It's the weapon I have," you say simply. "And I will use it to defend this Karak."
-Birdmuncha pt 3.
 
Glau said:
Oh! And question to those who are familiar with the stat lines of the characters:

Assuming Mathilde walked up to Morghur, and did not mutate, would the Rune of Superior Skill shut down the battle-field wide you cast=you mutate field? And if so, are we in a position to win a fight with Morghur sans magic suppression and mutation field?

Assuming we'd just force him into respawn, and possible disrupt what's keeping him here, and possibly cost the dwarves a protector, but... Is it a winnable fight?
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Assuming his abilities are the same as they've always been, Mathilde has no way to know what parts of what he does are him and what parts are any accoutrements he may have. But even if you shut down the anti-magic thing, you still have the 'people nearby turn into spawn' and 'people touching him suffer often-fatal mutations' to contend with. And by all accounts Morghur is better able to recover from being killed than Mathilde is to recover from mutation. So it'd be basically down to chance whether Mathilde can kill him before she suffers something irreversible.
 
Just some thoughts before I go to sleep. Currently Karag Dum is silent, they must know that we can not stay here forever. If Karag Dum decides to start signalling back to us then I say we listen. If they do not attempt to make contact we'll leave. We are not here to act as their advocates, if what they are doing is as righteous and unambiguously good as some people seem to think, then maybe they'll try to communicate.

On the other hand trying to infiltrate Karag Dum to find evidence that what they're doing is actually fine is a bit like a lawyer breaking into a prospective clients home to find evidence they are innocent of a crime. It won't endear us to them if we survive. I would just like to plead with people to manage their expectations and also look at the situation from Dum's point of view rather than our out of universe one.
 
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