Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
@Prime 2.0's posts convinced me to change my vote, by the by.
That is a good point I did not think of, and can easily fit into my personal theory regarding what has become of Dum.
Oh, cool. I'm new to the quest, so thanks for the vote of confidence!

This thread goes at light speed so for those who don't want to go digging: Just to reiterate, aside from the more-or-less free actions of gathering more information while we park the expedition here, the most pertinent action I can see right now for tackling the "we're not sure why, but he doesn't want us to get any closer" issue is proccing Ranald's Coin.
[ ] Attempt to intercept a Kurgan war-party en route to attack the Karag and the Beastmen
- Hopefully, this will trigger the Protector and implant the knowledge that you protected them in both the Beastmen and any remaining inhabitants of the Karak.

I've far from read the whole thread since the vote started mind, so somebody else might have come up with an applicable write-in.
 
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Committing to just sitting here for another day just seems incredibly passive in just about the worst possible situation for it, this is the furthest north we've been, while also being a major gathering point. We have no real expectation of finding out anything that will materially change our options for the better in the next 24 hours and are merely hoping something good happens to expand our options instead of hostile contact forcing us to commit to something on their terms rather than ours.

Meanwhile if we commit to speaking with a tribe we could be back here in potentially less than two hours knowing one way or the other whether staying is practical/useful or not, and either started returning south and getting out of the immediate impact zone of Dum, or have entered the mountain/whatever the information given leads us to do if indicates staying is worthwhile.

Is there a chance talking to the Kvellige prompts them to attack us? Yes, but there seems just as if not a greater chance that doing one of any number of things out of character for what they expect/desire could prompt that action (Us not immediately attacking Dum, not doing a traditional meet up to discuss attacking rights, them thinking we're the Yusak slinking back after they chased us away previously, etc.)

So I much prefer doing something to change the options on our terms rather than just passively waiting for the situation to change. Becuase in the chaos wastes it seems a long shot to hope it's going to change for the better.
 
She'd need to be an expert in about three entirely different fields that she currently knows next to nothing about to go anywhere with the idea.
Can she consider something along the lines of that they have inverted the Runes of Valaya to draw in the surrounding magical energies usually drawn in by the Waystone network and keep it insulated in Karag Dum, resulting in less Dhar in the surrounding area as it's gradually purged or something like that?

Or does it need a vote or something? Sorry, I reacted when I saw you respond to the question of her considering a new theory.


Committing to just sitting here for another day just seems incredibly passive in just about the worst possible situation for it, this is the furthest north we've been, while also being a major gathering point. We have no real expectation of finding out anything that will materially change our options for the better in the next 24 hours and are merely hoping something good happens to expand our options instead of hostile contact forcing us to commit to something on their terms rather than ours.

Meanwhile if we commit to speaking with a tribe we could be back here in potentially less than two hours knowing one way or the other whether staying is practical/useful or not, and either started returning south and getting out of the immediate impact zone of Dum, or have entered the mountain/whatever the information given leads us to do if indicates staying is worthwhile.

Is there a chance talking to the Kvellige prompts them to attack us? Yes, but there seems just as if not a greater chance that doing one of any number of things out of character for what they expect/desire could prompt that action (Us not immediately attacking Dum, not doing a traditional meet up to discuss attacking rights, them thinking we're the Yusak slinking back after they chased us away previously, etc.)

So I much prefer doing something to change the options on our terms rather than just passively waiting for the situation to change. Becuase in the chaos wastes it seems a long shot to hope it's going to change for the better.
Indeed. Standing around doing nothing when the big target everyone tests themselves against is right there is going to just draw attention to us.
 
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Can she consider something along the lines of that they have inverted the Runes of Valaya to draw in the surrounding magical energies usually drawn in by the Waystone network and keep it insulated in Karag Dum, resulting in less Dhar in the surrounding area as it's gradually purged or something like that?

Or does it need a vote or something? Sorry, I reacted when I saw you respond to the question of her considering a new theory.

She can have as many theories as you want without needing a vote. If you think a particular theory is true, then vote for the course of action that makes the most sense for that theory.
 
Actually, quick check - @BoneyM, do you consider the two leading votes (fortify in place and contact a tribe peacefully for info) contradictory / mutually exclusive? I voted for both thinking that mathlide would go off and make contact while everyone bunkered down, but I'm not sure if that's how you saw it.
 
Committing to just sitting here for another day just seems incredibly passive in just about the worst possible situation for it, this is the furthest north we've been, while also being a major gathering point. We have no real expectation of finding out anything that will materially change our options for the better in the next 24 hours and are merely hoping something good happens to expand our options instead of hostile contact forcing us to commit to something on their terms rather than ours.
At the very least sitting around allows for all the proposed experiments to haplen which BoneyM judged would take too much time to be included im the previous chapter.
 
The issue I see with proccing the coin is that I don't think it'll change anything. If he's still chaos aligned somehow, then he likely will just think us foolish (because self-sacrifice is for the weak), and ignore us. And if he's either bound by the dwarves, otherwise working for/with them, or an illusion, then it's the dwarves of Karag Dum we need to convince, not Malagor. And with Borek couching for us they'll likely already be as convinced of our good intentions as they're likely to get. And if they don't contact us of their own initiative, then they'll probably not change that opinion because we helped them out with an attack that likely wasn't a real threat to them anyways.

As for potential actions, I'm of two minds. On the one hand, if Borek's talking with Karag Dum, then waiting a day gives them time to organize and send a response to us, which would be the best, lowest-risk way of figuring things out. OTOH, we don't want to stay here too long, and if we're staying the night we might want to do things like contacting people before nightfall to get more done before the rest of the expedition pushes to leave. But doing that would come with its own risks, so it might be better to wait for any Karag Dum reply that Borek might be able to get sent our way. hard to choose.
 
The issue I see with proccing the coin is that I don't think it'll change anything. If he's still chaos aligned somehow, then he likely will just think us foolish (because self-sacrifice is for the weak), and ignore us. And if he's either bound by the dwarves, otherwise working for/with them, or an illusion, then it's the dwarves of Karag Dum we need to convince, not Malagor. And with Borek couching for us they'll likely already be as convinced of our good intentions as they're likely to get. And if they don't contact us of their own initiative, then they'll probably not change that opinion because we helped them out with an attack that likely wasn't a real threat to them anyways.

As for potential actions, I'm of two minds. On the one hand, if Borek's talking with Karag Dum, then waiting a day gives them time to organize and send a response to us, which would be the best, lowest-risk way of figuring things out. OTOH, we don't want to stay here too long, and if we're staying the night we might want to do things like contacting people before nightfall to get more done before the rest of the expedition pushes to leave. But doing that would come with its own risks, so it might be better to wait for any Karag Dum reply that Borek might be able to get sent our way. hard to choose.
I don't think we'll be getting any reply. He went in there with finality. So better to get what information we can.
 
At the very least sitting around allows for all the proposed experiments to haplen which BoneyM judged would take too much time to be included im the previous chapter.

We've already picked up the low hanging fruits at this point though, I expect we'll find out a bit more. But in all likelihood quite a bit less than even the 1-2 hours of experiments have told us. Because everyone has already explored the obvious leads and possibilities available to them.

I think there's basically no chance any experiments we do will give us absolute certainty in casting magic for example (Well, unless a volunteer goes for it perhaps. but that's not within the default experiments performed).

I don't think we'll be getting any reply. He went in there with finality. So better to get what information we can.

Yeah, the fact they declined/were unable to give any acknowledgement whatsoever to the semaphore I think basically kills any hope of responses.
 
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Can we trigger the protector coin, if we frame it as save Borek from himself, get more info to persuade the other Karaks that Karak Dum has not fallen, save Karak Dum from themselves?


Fortifying allows us to wait for Borek and Karag Dum to get their acts together and maybe send a respond, It also allows us to watch any attacks the Kurgan may or may not use against the beastmen, if they use magic we can determine the consequences of using magic.
 
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The issue I see with proccing the coin is that I don't think it'll change anything. If he's still chaos aligned somehow, then he likely will just think us foolish (because self-sacrifice is for the weak), and ignore us. And if he's either bound by the dwarves, otherwise working for/with them, or an illusion, then it's the dwarves of Karag Dum we need to convince, not Malagor. And with Borek couching for us they'll likely already be as convinced of our good intentions as they're likely to get. And if they don't contact us of their own initiative, then they'll probably not change that opinion because we helped them out with an attack that likely wasn't a real threat to them anyways.
We've got multiple lines of evidence ruling out that it's chaos, and we don't know the mechanism that has Cor-Dum doing what he's doing at all - he could be like a guard dog with guard dog intelligence, for all we know. Likewise, we don't know the state of the dwarves inside, and have very recently had an example of just how strong their paranoia can be - Borek vouching for us does not mean they believe him enough to risk it.

And, more to the point, I'm pretty sure he's not vouching for us, so much as saying "I hope they leave and make it back safe", because he doesn't want any of us caught up in his shame. If he wanted us to follow him in, he'd not have said goodbyes, and he'd not have ignored Cor-Dum telling us to fuck off.

Ranald's coin is a broad spectrum poke in that it has the most reliable shot at appealing directly to Cor-Dum, which covers possibilities where he can make independent decisions, appeals directly to the natives who may not be getting a straight story from Borek or might not believe it even if they are, and presses on Borek that we haven't left yet and that the ball is very firmly in his and his karak's court to make sure that the rest of the expedition doesn't further risk death because of him.

It vouches for our character to everyone in that forest and karak, and accelerates the time table under which the people inside might consider that they're putting us in danger through their inaction. Dwarven honor will do the rest.

Nothing else in the standard options does anything close to that much, that I can see.
 
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This has probably already been mentioned, but the fact that the only corpses in the desert are horse and humanoid is weirder than just an indication that there's a lack of Morghur mutation field consequences. There should have been all kinds of critters, monsters and Chaos spawn that occasionally walked into the desert with or without an army and subsequently died there.

@BoneyM I think at some point I asked you if we found any equipment or clothing or other objects left behind in battle that aren't bones or banners. Maybe that question got lost while copy-pasting.

Actually, quick check - @BoneyM, do you consider the two leading votes (fortify in place and contact a tribe peacefully for info) contradictory / mutually exclusive? I voted for both thinking that mathlide would go off and make contact while everyone bunkered down, but I'm not sure if that's how you saw it.
Huh. I didn't even think of party composition stuff. @BoneyM is the default of all the options other than Intercept and Leave that Mathilde does it alone? Or will we be joined by whatever makes the most sense at the time, like a couple of Knights or Egrimm or whatever?
That will happen regardless.
Not if the time the action takes is considerably shorter than digging in and waiting around.
 
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[X] Attempt to intercept a Kurgan war-party en route to attack the Karag and the Beastmen
-[X] With ranger support
 
@BoneyM I think at some point I asked you if we found any equipment or clothing or other objects left behind in battle that aren't bones or banners. Maybe that question got lost while copy-pasting.

I must have missed it, that doesn't ring a bell. No clothes or equipment to be found, which isn't unexpected. Whichever side won any battle would take anything useful, and if the flesh is long gone the clothes would be too.

Huh. I didn't even think of party composition stuff. @BoneyM is the default of all the options other than Intercept and Leave that Mathilde does it alone? Or will we be joined by whatever makes the most sense at the time, like a couple of Knights or Egrimm or whatever?

Whatever makes the most sense.
 
Does the protector coin activate, if we want to genuinely prove Karag Dum is innocent, and reunite Karak Dum with the other karak dwarves, and get them acceptance, maybe help be a lisaon or something, like throwing around Mathilde's political backing to help out Karak Dum and Karak Vlag.
 
To me the primary purpose of 'wait' is to see what happens to any Kurgan raiding parties that attack, if any do.

I don't think there's really much reason to hope they attack so frequently we'll get to see it just by waiting 24 hours. Just based on how long the siege has been going on it seems implausible, as we seem to be southerly enough that demographics hold some sway still. The fact that the sand has some amount of conversion power makes it harder to tell, but that our scouts checking the area with telescopes noticed no sign of recent combat in the area or on the stone where they'd retreat to is also an indicator it's not happening all the time.
 
Does the protector coin activate, if we want to genuinely prove Karag Dum is innocent, and reunite Karak Dum with the other karak dwarves, and get them acceptance, maybe help be a lisaon or something, like throwing around Mathilde's political backing to help out Karak Dum and Karak Vlag.
That's trying to finagle an explanation of what it's "doing" into existence, so no.
To me the primary purpose of 'wait' is to see what happens to any Kurgan raiding parties that attack, if any do.
And why would they leave the big Metal things just standing there, threatening their rear?
 
and if the flesh is long gone the clothes would be too.
I thought the current prevailing theory was that this is due to Beastman cannibalism. And things like broken armor, spears and arrows, useless ornaments and personal items, ripped cloth and saddles are all not things that Beastmen would care to eat and loot more than bones.

If the bones seem clean due to time passed then that completely makes me reconsider the frequency that anything like attrition against Chaos Marauders who try to test themselves against the Dum actually happens.

And if frequent raids do still happen and yet there is also no garbage lying around, just sand and bones, then something much more fucky is going on. Something like the desertification field affecting everything but bone for instance.
 
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And why would they leave the big Metal things just standing there, threatening their rear?

Yeah, when you think about it, this scenario around Dum seems to lead rather naturally to the whole blood or tea ceremony we've been doing except writ large. Except in this case we'd be declining to make our intentions clear and just hoping they accept that rather than taking it as the hostile act it's generally viewed as.
 
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