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On the other hand, it is just honestly true that sometimes words don't follow standard conventions.
Still odd though, especially in a language as formulaic as Khazalid which hasn't undergone enough linguistic drift to make it unintelligible, or even that hard to understand, across a timespan of several millennia when in IRL languages without a culture with a focus on maintained tradition and consistency you start to have trouble after a few hundred years, Khazalid seems to be a very prescriptivist language where if you aren't doing it the way the Ancestors did it you're doing it Wrong and that is a linguistic deviation that should be corrected.
 
One of Luitpold's few canon traits is being overprotective of his family, which can only have gotten worse after losing his first wife and child. And Heidi being Heidi, she's assuredly taken full advantage of this to wrap him around her finger, so any such decisions are almost certainly going to be up to her.

I do think that might be part of it, but the Empire of Man just seems to care less about blood descent than the equivalent states in our world would. Adoption being much more common isn't just a thing in isolation.
 
What makes a dark age a dark age? Misery, squalor, mass deaths, widespread illiteracy, technological backsliding, cultural stagnation? Well, that's how it's generally understood, but that's actually a mash-up of three different but overlapping meanings applied by different people with different motives. In the sense most used now, the colloquial sense, it's the low point in the story arc of a nation or people or continent, the second-act nadir that the protagonists must recover from. I've referred to the history of Kislev from shortly after the Great War to approximately nowish as a dark age, and the entire Time of Three Emperors as a dark age, and the Time of Woes is often referred to as a dark age. So far, so good, but there's a couple of significant problems with this.

First, history is very rarely so neat. Centuries of the history of a country or an entire continent cannot be as neatly summed up as that bit with Frodo and Sam in the ruins of Osgiliath. But once you've got the hammer of a historical template, an awful lot of things start looking like nails. Were there lucid moments of the Vampire Tzarina's reign? Were there periods of relative peace in the Time of Three Emperors? Were there lulls in the miseries of the Time of Woes? Have all of those been flattened under the dark age steamroller?

Second, just because it's the most common meaning doesn't mean it's the only one, but it's often assumed to be. Because when something is referred to as a dark age, most people assume they mean this first meaning, when it can actually mean one of the other meanings I'm about to get to. There's a reason why very few people use the term 'dark age' any more, and those that are too insistent on doing so should be very seriously side-eyed. There's a reason why you generally hear the terms 'Middle Ages' or 'Medieval' used instead today, and there's a similar shift happening in discussions about the Greek dark age.

The next most common meaning is much more literal - it's a dark age because we can't see it. Written records are fragile, and for us to have enough written records of an era for us to feel like we have a good handle on what was going on during it, an era needs to have produced a lot of writing. The 'dark age' following the collapse of Rome was dark because it shifted the chunks of Europe that English-speaking historians tend to focus on from a lot of centralized bureaucracy with a highly literate upper class, to more local powers that had much less need to write things down and often under the leadership of Celtic or Germanic peoples who had a lot less tradition of literacy at the time. This is intended, but very often not taken, as a values-neutral descriptor. We're just measuring whether or not they created a lot of writings for future historians to find, we're not weighing in on all that human suffering no longer being created to glorify the senate and people of Rome.

(By this definition, the Viking Age could be considered a dark age, because the Norsemen didn't use writing in the way most socities we're familiar with did - they used it on monuments to record great people or deeds, and seemingly to label objects with what they were for good luck - perhaps to remind them what they were supposed to be doing? - but not to keep records about their society or their culture or their religion. It's a topic of much consternation that the main sources we have about the Norse religion weren't written by people that actually believed in them, but by their Christian descendants who had their own agendas and preconceptions and religious obligations. This sort of cultural pollution between us and the 'dark age' is what gets Loki depicted as a Satanic figure instead of as a classical trickster in some places.)

(...the modern mainstream understanding of Satan, that is. You could draw some fascinating parallels between Loki, who causes Odin's most annoying problems but solves his otherwise unsolvable ones, and, say, the Judaic depictions that have him as God's enforcer or designated naysayer, or that one biblical one making a bet about that poor bugger Job, or the Gnostic ones that have him as a righteous rebel against a tyrant, or Milton's sexy tragic rebel trying to do his best but doomed by his flaws, or the sulkily gorgeous omnisexual menace from DC Comics and then the TV show Lucifer. If you were looking for a topic for your thesis and/or historical or urban fantasy series and don't mind a little excommunication between friends you could go a step further and posit a common mythological ancestor for all 'trickster' archetypes and even all 'formally loyal servant of the head god that now rebels for some good reasons and some personality flaw reasons' archetypes.)

(Going back to before the Viking and Satan asides, these differing interpretations of the term 'dark age' interacts interestingly in 40k's 'Dark Age of Technology'. At first read with the first meaning in mind, it's a darkly ironic title loaded with the baggage of the Machine Cult - they consider an age of boundless technology and widespread peace and prosperity a 'dark age' because it does not align with their dogma, right? But it's a dark age in the second sense because in an age of so much technology, all the records were made with technology, and in an era after the AI revolt, all of that technology is destroyed or hostile, making all those records inaccessible and therefore the era is imperceivable. The third meaning ties into it too.)

The third and original meaning is pure propaganda. The dark age started when our ancestors stopped being in charge, and resumed when we got to be in charge again. The 'Renaissance' was first called the renascita approximately thirty seconds after the first smug Italian man put paint on his brush, and thirty seconds after that they were excitedly inventing new ways for yesterday to have been horrible to make today look even better in contrast, and thirty seconds after that every other country in Europe was adopting local variations on the tale, including a whole bunch of English historians that eagerly poisoned the well for the glory of Britannica, several Georges, and one Victoria. The overwhelming majority of 'medieval torture devices' you can find a million books and articles and youtube videos about were invented as a result of, and to further feed into, this dynamic. As was a lot of the reputation of the Inquisition. Don't get me wrong, they were horrific bastards, but they spent the overwhelming majority of their time being horrific in the context of religious persecution, which these eras were still largely in favour of. So the later stories of them pursuing literal and figurative witch hunts were largely invented, even though the doctrine of most of the organizations that could be called the Inquisition considered believing in the very existence of witchcraft heretical.

The relevance of all this to the topic at hand is that the Dwarves barely had one and didn't at all have the other two. The Time of Woes was bad, sure, but it was very binary - Holds either fell or they didn't, and the ones that didn't were more often strengthened by the influx of refugees than they were weakened by the overall experience. The Karaz Ankor overall could be considered to have had a Dark Age, but the only individual Hold that could really claim to have had one is Karak Azul from its period of isolation. The rest either ended or were fine. In the second sense, none of them should have had any discontinuity of written records. There's a line in Dwarven history about 'the Great Book of Grudges of Karaz-a-Karak falling silent during this period', but, uh, what? Are you saying there's no Grudge recorded for Karak Ungor? For Karak Varn? For Eight Peaks and its neighbours? Bullshit. Lazy writers just want to be ambiguous about ancient history and don't like people rightfully pointing out that the Dwarves should be able to tell you what Snorri Whitebeard had for breakfast on any given day of his life after half an hour in what surely must be their meticulously-index archives. And the third? Nah. The Age of Reckoning is at best referred to as a throwback to the glory days, not - never - an eclipsing of them. That just doesn't fit with the entire Dwarven mindset.

All this to say, where would linguistic drift even come from?

They live in the same places, peopled by the same peoples, ruled by the same dynasties, with unbroken chain of written records going back to the creation of their language, with ironclad cultural and religious doctrines saying that these cannot be improved upon and should not be deviated from. They haven't been conquered, they haven't been displaced, they haven't been abandoned and rebuilt, they've never been under foreign rule, they've never had a ruler from an alien culture inherit through come quirk of a gnarled family tree. There have been diaspora but they've all gone outwards. The Hill Dwarves, those that built settlements in the flatlands to trade with the Elves? Absolutely could have introduced linguistic deviation... except they didn't come back home, they stayed behind and became the Imperial Dwarves. Ekrund, isolated in the Dragonback Mountains for so long? They helped found Karak Norn. The Middle Mountains Dwarves only sent their least influential mouths to feed back to the Karaz Ankor. The Norse Dwarves definitely had a lot of cultural interchange with the Norscans, but never reconnected with the Karaz Ankor to feed that back into the mainstream culture. The Chaos Dwarves absolutely did, but they have more cultural influence on Orcs and Kurgans than they do the Karaz Ankor. The only significant population I can think of that was isolated for long enough to start veering onto its own cultural course and then returned to the imperial core were the Mountains of Mourn colonies.

By all logic, Khazalid should follow its supposedly ironclad rules a lot more than it actually does. This would be interesting, because it would be a point where they are completely alien from the 'rules' of culture and society that we are familiar with, a string for the curious to pull on that will lead them deeper into investigating these people. Or, alternately, each time there's a variation from these rules, there should be the clear fingerprints of the ones that did it, with footprints leading back to one of these fracture points in Dwarven history - another string to pull on. 'Dawongr' should have a paragraph about how it was reintroduced to mainstream Khazalid from Norse Khazalid from, I don't know, some early pre-Chaos Norscan (Norsii, back then) who saved the life of a Norse Dwarf King and the saga of their bromance got popular enough in the vacuum before the arrival of the Imperial Tribes that the Norse Dwarf word 'Dawongr' took the place of the original 'Dawongi'. It gives you a string to pull about Norscan history for free, too! Or you could have all these variations be the effect of a rising cultural influence within the Karaz Ankor of the Young Holds, adding an extra dimension to the cultural rift between the Old and Young that might make for a really interesting dynamic between the Dwarfier Dwarfs that are richer and wiser but a pain to get along with, and the less Dwarfy Dwarfs that don't have the bottomless vaults or the fanciest runes but might actually speak your language and won't cut off business with your family for ten generations if you forget the proper way to groom your beard before a formal meeting.

But the cost of doing that means you have to do that. You lose the throwaway jokes like 'bugrit' being a Khazalid word, which wouldn't fuss me but some people do like. You can't do cute little references and directly transplant Tolkien place names. You have to do something about all the grandfathered term from the early days of the setting. You have to reign in all the Black Library writers who barely skim the setting bible and have historically been given free rein to multilaser and Egrimm van Horstmann all over the goddamn place. Maybe you just plain can't do this sort of thing in a setting like Warhammer, a collaboration between thousands of people over forty years and counting. Maybe this is the sort of thing you can only manage with a singular word nerd with a singular vision at the middle of it, either a solo project or a sufficiently stubborn auteur. But man, to me (perhaps not the most unbiased perspective the world has ever produced) it really feels like a missed opportunity.

Actually, you know what? On further thought, I retract that charitability. They're basically rebooting the setting, they absolutely could chisel the rules into rock and bring the language into line if they had the stones. I came up with a lore explanation for Cor Dum even though it ended up being a stupid wiki typo, they can come up with one for dawongr.
 
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BoneyM again makes amazingly deep comments of two thousand words, which for me appear as a new chapter to the text, how unexpected. Let's return to other news in the meantime - water is wet. :V
 
Very much a result of surviving writers' bias in that "Of course it was a Dark Age, we were miserable at that time!" after quietly ignoring how every single generation has had "The Good Old Days" fans, often paired with "Misery and woe, the current generation of children are terrible".

If my memory of a vtuber's Dark Age history lecture serves, the ones which coined (and then re-coined by someone with an agenda) the term Dark Ages was talking about very local events but obviously using grand sweeping statements to encompass everything, everywhere because surely these dark and gloomy clouds were sent by Providence to highlight the misery of the whole (civilized) world.
 
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Me being a historian looking into the Early Iron Age Greek: Wow we just got some new translations of graffiti from 900 bce Greek! I wonder what it will reveal!

The Graffiti: I LAID TRENCHES ON YOUR WIFE HERE

Sorry had to get that out of my system
 
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Always fun to see these QM effort posts. At first I thought this was going to be the first example of those intermediate writing energy outputs you alluded to having plans for. Though after reading it I expect those to turn out to be something different still.

The relevance of all this to the topic at hand is that the Dwarves barely had one and didn't at all have the other two. The Time of Woes was bad, sure, but it was very binary - Holds either fell or they didn't, and the ones that didn't were more often strengthened by the influx of refugees than they were weakened by the overall experience. The Karaz Ankor overall could be considered to have had a Dark Age, but the only individual Hold that could really claim to have had one is Karak Azul from its period of isolation. The rest either ended or were fine. In the second sense, none of them should have had any discontinuity of written records. There's a line in Dwarven history about 'the Great Book of Grudges of Karaz-a-Karak falling silent during this period', but, uh, what? Are you saying there's no Grudge recorded for Karak Ungor? For Karak Varn? For Eight Peaks and its neighbours? Bullshit. Lazy writers just want to be ambiguous about ancient history and don't like people rightfully pointing out that the Dwarves should be able to tell you what Snorri Whitebeard had for breakfast on any given day of his life after half an hour in what surely must be their meticulously-index archives. And the third? Nah. The Age of Reckoning is at best referred to as a throwback to the glory days, not - never - an eclipsing of them. That just doesn't fit with the entire Dwarven mindset.
I thought that there was a major population drop all around in this time, significantly greater than the still existing Dwarven demographic problem of having births below replacement level. So many scenes in your story talk about the relative emptiness of the Old Holds. Especially Karaz-a-Karak. And so many mention the loss of techniques due to critical things being taught first and non-critical things often ending up being taught never, especially when it comes to Runesmithing. Is considering that a type one dark age (based on your categorization) really that off target?

I came up with a lore explanation for Cor Dum even though it ended up being a stupid wiki typo, they can come up with one for dawongr.
Oh wow. Throughout reading this, though it was riveting, I kept wondering what brought it about. I couldn't remember any recent thread madness about dark age periods. Took me till the end that this was about the dawongi/dawongr thing. Kudos, Boney.
 
I always love a good quick diatribe on the propaganda of the way out history is taught. Honestly the historical tangents are some of the more enjoyable parts of worldbuilding to me.

On the case of the Dawongi vs Dawongr, my personal head cannon is that Grungi once said Dawongr and Valaya once said Dawongi and now nobody is sure which is correct, and it's been an argument between lore keepers since the golden age.
 
On the case of the Dawongi vs Dawongr, my personal head cannon is that Grungi once said Dawongr and Valaya once said Dawongi and now nobody is sure which is correct, and it's been an argument between lore keepers since the golden age.
The tragedy is that there is an actual answer that neatly resolves everything, but as is true all too often it was lost a thousand years ago.

Hmmm? oh, what, no. It didn't die out or burn with the archives or anything. It's just that when they wrote it down the last known copy vanished into the stacks at some point and they haven't been able to get hold of it since.
 
Very much a result of surviving writers' bias in that "Of course it was a Dark Age, we were miserable at that time!" after quietly ignoring how every single generation has had "The Good Old Days" fans, often paired with "Misery and woe, the current generation of children are terrible".
Don't forget the infamous tumblr chain where its 'Kids these days won't get off their phones!' to 'Kids these days won't get out of their books!'
 
Mathilde makes such frequent and good use of tool-free enchanting magic for the magnification lenses alone that it's a wonder that magic isn't codified into a spell in its own right.

Frankly, the ability to create variable-size-and-zoom magnifying lenses in the air anywhere is so useful to spies, scouts, saboteurs, and assassins that it really should be in the standard Grey College curriculum.
since mathilde reading and internalizing Light and Its Properties was a key moment in the development in her magic, it could be that most people wouldnt have an instinctive ease at creating the more complicated lens arrays that she makes.
 
since mathilde reading and internalizing Light and Its Properties was a key moment in the development in her magic, it could be that most people wouldnt have an instinctive ease at creating the more complicated lens arrays that she makes.
Hmmm, I'm now curious if the light college or the celestials already have a copy... Or how much they would pay for one. That book shaped our understanding of magic and ulgu doesn't even do much with light!
 
One of the few ways you might be able to have an uncontroversial or at least minimally controversial Dark Age is if the people at the time consider the period they are living in a Dark Age compared to the past. By that standard I suspect that Karaz Ankor has been is a Dark Age of varying degrees of Darkness since the Golden Age or potentially since the moment the Ancestor-Gods left them. It's all been downhill since then.

posit a common mythological ancestor for all 'trickster' archetypes
On a tangentially related note but a personal hypothesis I've wanted to get off my chest and discuss with someone for quite a while, while I doubt common mythical archetypes like the trickster have a single mythological ancestor even more than I'm skeptical of the possibility that all human languages can be traced back to a single proto-human language, I do believe there's a significant possibility that common archetypes like "the Trickster God" have a common neurological origin directly or indirectly, directly in that the pareidolia of the human mind tries to make sense of the capriciousness of the world around us and one of the easiest ways to do it is to explain it as the acts of a "Trickster deity" whose acts don't make sense because it's all a series of jokes at humanity's expense, that could be the product of both mental rationalization and a tendency of the neural architecture of our brains to come to that particular conclusion, or indirectly in that our neurology results in the common creation of "silly" people who love trickery, mischief, and pranks and who serve as an inspiration for the archetype of "Tricksters". I have no firm evidence to support this and it probably can't be confirmed one way or another barring detailed neuron-level brain scans and simulation and a deeper understanding of human neurology but that's my personal gut feeling for why that archetype and many other archetypes are common across human cultures, neurological similarities common across all human brains, I know that's not really a scientifically rigorous conclusion but in the absence of science reaching the point that it can prove or disprove such hypotheses intuition and educated guesswork is all we have to work with and that's my intuitive educated guess.

At the very least if I ever write a story which happens to veer into the subject matter I have a reasonably coherent explanation for the commonality of certain archetypes across cultures that won't immediately shatter the suspension of disbelief of my readers when I give them my completely unconfirmed but vaguely plausible answer for why that is.
 
The "trickster" archetype bugs me a bit because it so often seems to have an "on your side" assumption baked in. Friends winning through false surrenders are clever tricksters (at least for the duration of the movie, after getting up you might think wait a minute...), enemies winning through false surrenders are war criminals.
 
I thought that there was a major population drop all around in this time, significantly greater than the still existing Dwarven demographic problem of having births below replacement level. So many scenes in your story talk about the relative emptiness of the Old Holds. Especially Karaz-a-Karak. And so many mention the loss of techniques due to critical things being taught first and non-critical things often ending up being taught never, especially when it comes to Runesmithing. Is considering that a type one dark age (based on your categorization) really that off target?

If they took so many casualties that they still had a net loss in population even after accounting for the influx of refugees from not just the fallen Holds but also the innumerable minor outposts that must surely have existed in a safer, Underway-linked, pre-Skaven, possibly even pre-Night Goblin world, then that's an extinction event and whatever emerged afterwards should have been completely unrecognizable. My take is that the surviving Karaks might actually have come out of the TIme of Woes with more population than they started with, and the decline only set in afterwards. I think the core tragedy of the Dwarves is that they are able to withstand the greatest of hardships but not the slow grind of a status quo where things are more or less okay but not as good as they used to be and they probably never will be again. They win the war but lose the peace. There's a visceral tragedy in closing a third of the Hold after a brutal war, but doing so one hall at a time every generation no matter what you do because nobody is able to believe that the world their children will inherit will be anything but worse than the one they were born into is a more Dwarven kind of horrible.
 
The "trickster" archetype bugs me a bit because it so often seems to have an "on your side" assumption baked in. Friends winning through false surrenders are clever tricksters (at least for the duration of the movie, after getting up you might think wait a minute...), enemies winning through false surrenders are war criminals.

Well yeah, people need to rationalize when they break the rules, when the other side does it that is clearly them being evil. Odysseus is a trickster, (or a guile hero for technically) for tricking the Trojans into opening their gates to Greeks to get slaughtered, because Troy is the enemy. But Paris for managing to not just seduce Helen but steal Menelaus' treasure in the process is an oathbreaker who's gonna get it in the name of divine justice. The people who told each other legends around the hearth or campfire were no more free of cognitive dissonance than we are today, which is to say they were hypocrites too.
 
If they took so many casualties that they still had a net loss in population even after accounting for the influx of refugees from not just the fallen Holds but also the innumerable minor outposts that must surely have existed in a safer, Underway-linked, pre-Skaven, possibly even pre-Night Goblin world, then that's an extinction event and whatever emerged afterwards should have been completely unrecognizable. My take is that the surviving Karaks might actually have come out of the TIme of Woes with more population than they started with, and the decline only set in afterwards. I think the core tragedy of the Dwarves is that they are able to withstand the greatest of hardships but not the slow grind of a status quo where things are more or less okay but not as good as they used to be and they probably never will be again. They win the war but lose the peace. There's a visceral tragedy in closing a third of the Hold after a brutal war, but doing so one hall at a time every generation no matter what you do because nobody is able to believe that the world their children will inherit will be anything but worse than the one they were born into is a more Dwarven kind of horrible.
It would also fit with why Karak Azul and Karak Vlag are happier than the other Old Holds, they were diminishing but they were diminishing while in constant war and conflict, they had the excuse of being under constant attack for any deterioration they experienced. The other Holds didn't have that excuse, they were at relative peace and any degradation they experienced was solely their own fault for not being good enough despite being in as near as ideal a circumstance they could realistically be in the world they live in.
 
What makes a dark age a dark age? Misery, squalor, mass deaths, widespread illiteracy, technological backsliding, cultural stagnation? Well, that's how it's generally understood, but that's actually a mash-up of three different but overlapping meanings applied by different people with different motives. In the sense most used now, the colloquial sense, it's the low point in the story arc of a nation or people or continent, the second-act nadir that the protagonists must recover from. I've referred to the history of Kislev from shortly after the Great War to approximately nowish as a dark age, and the entire Time of Three Emperors as a dark age, and the Time of Woes is often referred to as a dark age. So far, so good, but there's a couple of significant problems with this.
Reading this paragraph I couldn't tell if it was Boney writing this or Mathilde., 😅
 
Well yeah, people need to rationalize when they break the rules, when the other side does it that is clearly them being evil. Odysseus is a trickster, (or a guile hero for technically) for tricking the Trojans into opening their gates to Greeks to get slaughtered, because Troy is the enemy. But Paris for managing to not just seduce Helen but steal Menelaus' treasure in the process is an oathbreaker who's gonna get it in the name of divine justice. The people who told each other legends around the hearth or campfire were no more free of cognitive dissonance than we are today, which is to say they were hypocrites too.
The big difference there, i think, is that Odysseus did not break his oath with the horse thing.
Had they sued for peace, and entered the city as guests, and then done the exact same thing succesfully, that would have been instant "piss of the gods" moment, because they would have been given guest rights, and accepted the resulting obligations.
It's the "oath broken" thing that makes the big difference.
 
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