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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I believe that the expedition hasn't truly succeeded until we at least know/can deduce with confidence the precise situation at Dum. On the other hand, while I'm mostly sure Mathilde won't get turned into chaos spawn simply for casting, I also feel that it's much too risky to attempt an infiltration without magic. And as Mathilde says in the update: "but mostly sure is a good way to get killed." So I'd rather wait and see if we can't get third-party confirmation that it's safe, one way or the other.

[x] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
 
NSMS said:
Hmm... do the forest and desert actually necessarily need to be related? Could we be looking at two separate landscape-altering effects here, not just one? It's a bit of a stretch, I know, but there being a random forest and a random desert doesn't seem to fit neatly into a single cause.
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My current theory is that it's two defensive effects, yes.
Desert translocation, perhaps related to the Dhar detoxification going on. Possibly also Borek knew they'd be doing as he left, and maybe not (as) inherently shameful.
Forest full of Beastmen related to the 'Mountain Herdstone' and Cor Dum being here, and the thing that led Borek to taking the Long Walk.
ag3112 said:
Makes sense though. especially given that it's not something he can do anything about short of besmirching his crown or ... letting K8P fall even if he were inclined to be petty otherwise.
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Pretty sure his goal for the Waystone collaboration project waiting in the wings is to find some way to stop Thorgrims' theft of that magic. Sure, Belegar doesn't have any specific idea what he can use it for, but it's his.
Ericwinter said:
Funny thought, but I used to think this whole thing was basically saying they wanted Mathilde's expertise on restoring Waystones—which always struck me as unlikely to work out since she didn't actually have a hand in it—but now that I look back, they actually want her for her learning capabilities. Like, they don't expect her to actually know anything useful at the start, but expect her to be able to figure it out if given a chance. They expect her, a human, to work out Waystones where they can't. That's... flattering, actually. And funny when you realize her Windsight and Avatar trait just might make it possible.
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I'd sooner assume they identified Mathilde for her proven ability to stoop down and understand the petty, unclean Magics of inferior species, such as the Dwarves' contributions to the ancient Waystone network.
 
Hmmm... If it turns out that this sand is being transposed from Nehekhara I wonder if you could make a case to the Tomb Kings for their lands being stolen.

After all, they are rulers, so if the compulsion behind "don't steal the mummy gold, idiot!" also applies to land that's theirs, even in principle, that might get their attentions.

You know, because getting the tomb kings into a perpetual fight with Chaos over a spit of sand in the Wastes is a plan that will certainly not go wrong. :V
 
Godwinson said:
You've skipped a step with #3: "Is this actually Cor-Dum?" Considering that the most significant of observable effects attributed to that entity (over other similar entities, i.e. other beastmen) were entirely absent, it seems more than a little odd to ignore.
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You're right, added.

Would there be a good way to falsify that, short of going back home and finding more information about Cor-Dum? Talking to him, I guess.
 
Vebyast said:
You're right, added.

Would there be a good way to falsify that, short of going back home and finding more information about Cor-Dum? Talking to him, I guess.
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Honestly it's too difficult to say, Morghur is just such a unique entity. Maybe if you could somehow fleshcraft a Mutalith Vortex Beast.

I'm guessing it's a combination of being "born" a Dwarf and being in the confines of the Hold's draining (?) field contribute to the lack of insanity around him.
 
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LightLan said:
Canonically the axe isn't inside the Karak. And we aint getting it regardless.
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Canonically the Axe was there at the point they were cut off, and then canon took a very, very different path than this Karag Dum did.

Also, I think it's very notable that Grimir's Axe has another canonical name. What is that name, you ask?

The Axe of the Runemasters.

(And, of course, there's also the Hammer of Fate to consider.)

NSMS said:
Here, we don't have on-the-spot evidence that Mr Bean's aura is mutating things, but we can tell it's still existing and doing something to twist reality, and the prior knowledge we have of him indicates that he has a mutatative aura.
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We examined the trees he was near, that should have been mutated into horrors, and they aren't visibly mutated at all. Also, he touched Borek. Whatever it is, it can't be his famous hyper-mutation aura, because it was missing the key "mutation" part.
Vebyast said:
You're right, added.

Would there be a good way to falsify that, short of going back home and finding more information about Cor-Dum? Talking to him, I guess.
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The observations falsify that his aura, which he canonically cannot disable (and is literally too insane to even form the thought to do so) exists here?
 
Guile said:
Was the hungry cloud at least predator-shaped?
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No predator that Mathilde is familiar with.

ag3112 said:
@BoneyM this might be too much of an ask but does your remark about it being surprisingly hard to put the pieces together when some of them were given well before one is looking for them applicable here as well? :whistle:
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It could.

Prime 2.0 said:
@BoneyM , can we get confirmation of when exactly Cor-Dum started and stopped the bellowing/thrashing/energy displays?
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You have the timeline correct.
 
There is another thing that going to another camp might tell us, are there other Morghur's watching them. If, as some people believe, that this one is a fake why should there be only one, if there isn't one at the other camps there might be someone else in that area. On the other hand, it might just appear when a new group turns up or they attack so they wouldn't know if he was near the edge...


If someone attacks the forest, he probably would appear again to fight… well that would give an opportunity to sneak by, still a downside that we would have no idea where Dum's actual entrance is and we no longer have a guide…
 
I don't really get the making contact with tribes option.

I just ... As far as they know this is the real Morghur, evil and chaosy as a super beast man should be. I'm not saying we will learn nothing, I just think there's a zero percent chance we gain enough of an answer to know everything or even feel notably more safe in approaching Morghur.

At the end of the day, this mystery is going to be solved by one of four things.

1) getting Dum, well a representative, to come to us. Whether through sticking around for a period, throwing messages across the border, shouting for Hotel real loud, etc, etc
2) attempting direct communication with Morning
3) Sneaking in
4) leaving

Everything else is just a low risk way of attempting to gain more info to more easily make the best choice out of these 4 options.

The thing is ... The last few times we met these tribes has shown us these contact attempts are a d6 away from a fight breaking out. I just don't understand a gamble that can so easily end up in a fight if its not going to eliminate the need for us to pursue one of these four options later on.

I'm sure I'm missing something, I'm sure everyone has very good reasons for voting as they are, but from where I'm sitting, with what I know, contacting the local tribes just doesn't seem worth the risk.
 
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King Arthur said:
I don't really get the making contact with tribes option.

I just ... As far as they know this is the real Morghur, evil and chaosy as a super beast man should be. I'm not saying we will learn nothing, I just think there's a zero percent chance we gain enough of an answer to know everything or even feel notably more safe in approaching Morghur.

At the end of the day, this mystery is going to be solved by one of four things.

1) getting Dum, well a representative, to come to us. Whether through sticking around for a period, throwing messages across the border, shouting for Hotel real loud, etc, etc
2) attempting direct communication with Morning
3) Sneaking in
4) leaving

Everything else is just a low risk way of attempting to fain more info to more easily make the best choice out of these 4 options.

The thing is ... The last few times we met these tribes has shown us these contact attempts are a d6 away from a fight breaking out. I just don't understand a gamble that can so easily end up in a fight if its not going to eliminate the need for us to pursue one of these dour options later on.

I'm sure I'm missing something, I'm sure everyone has very good reasons for voting as they are, but from where I'm sitting, with what I know, contacting the local tribes just doesn't seem worth the risk.
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For me it's because not enough people are willing to try and talk to him, so I'll take what I can get that isn't leaving or standing around waiting for some tribe to attack us.
 
Vebyast said:
You're right, added.

Would there be a good way to falsify that, short of going back home and finding more information about Cor-Dum? Talking to him, I guess.
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Well, Cor-Dum's primary distinguishing characteristics are that everything around him goes haywire with corruption, to the "surrounded by fetid puddles of screaming eyeballs" level, and that anyone who is even nearby him for even the shortest span of time immediately begins to mutate horribly until turning into Chaos Spawn, and that any forests where he dwells are especially heavily corrupted...

The state of the forest, the lack of visible corruption of reality around him, and Borek not exploding with mutations from that headpat are all evidence directly counter to that.
 
Adding tabling. For style points.

But really, I want to watch some one else fight Morghur. It would answer so many questions, and give us some data on his capabilities in this not-mutating flavor.


[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day

[x] This is clearly some Divine non-Chaos effect. And it's fighting Chaos and the Chaos Wastes. So you are obligated to try to help, but no more. Go the the edge of the forest and set up a table to wait till nightfall. Have a Dwarf either/and or carve the name, rank and station of Loremaster of K8Ps and the Karaz Ankor, or announce you(or whatever else the procedure is for a formal envoy approaching a friendly Karak in Karaz Ankor). If anyone does show up, thank them for their service against Chaos and ask what message/assistance they require and see what knowledge they might be willing to give back, to be preserved. Do not step one foot inside the forest without an invitation.
 
King Arthur said:
I just ... As far as they know this is the real Morghur, evil and chaosy as a super beast man should be. I'm not saying we will learn nothing, I just think there's a zero percent chance we gain enough of an answer to know everything or even feel notably more safe in approaching Morghur.
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If we learn that their wind shamans can still cast normally when attacking, that makes any kind of movement forward more viable.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I personally liked the Asuryan theory, really. He's the god of flame and the giver of life, and his flame emanates from a pyramid in scripture, which isn't that far off from a mountain.

If you're going to go with a single god to explain both the desert and the forest, he's one of the better picks - and dwarves worshipping an elf god would definitely be extra-heretical.

That said, it's completely plausible that the forest and the desert have two different sources.
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No, no it wouldn't be heresy. Can you not see? This could leave to the greatest triumph in the history of the Dawi.

If Karag Dum is worshipping Asuryan, and he is accepting their worship and responding to their prayers, then they could possibly undergo his trials to be proven worthy of being his preeminent chosen. Meaning a Dwarf of Karag Dum could walk into Asuryan's fires, grit their teeth and endure them unlike those prissy Elgi, and become the Phoenix King.

A Dwarf surviving the flames without magical protections and being anointed the one true Phoenix King, and the rightful ruler of all Ulthuan would be unbelievably troll-tastic. The shame of Karag Dum and all the accumulated Grudges against the Elgi, wiped away in an instant by a t-pose of legendary proportions.

The looks on the Elves' fucking faces, holy shit.
 
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@BoneyM
1. Is shadowhorse actively channeled or a cast and forget spell? Starting communications on a fast (and fearless) horse to get away on seems prudent.
2. Or does Morghurs reported ability extends to artifacts? Than aktivating one near him would corrupt it (the robe is NEW)...
3. EXPERIMENT: Test different materials scourced from around/the expedition has spares to see what the desert consumes. (Only bones in it? what happene to the other stuff the riders carried in?)

[X] Attempt to scout the forest at the base of the Karak
[X] Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Attempt to infiltrate the Karak without magic
-[X] Abort if the trees show signs of serious mutation up close that were not visible at distance.
 
BoneyM said:
You have the timeline correct.
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Alright, that seals it.

Cor-Dum, or whatever it is, does not want us to approach. He might like us and think that us approaching would endanger ourselves due to some whackery down there. Or, he just be brushing us off as outsiders and would attack us himself. Maybe he's sapient, maybe he's following inflexible programming. Doesn't matter.

As-is, trying to openly approach Karag-Dum is the wrong move, and trying to sneak in is stupid risky. We need to change the situation first. More information might help with that, and things might change from their side without us doing anything (though with how Borek was resigned, I doubt it), but we will be going against the demi-god grizzly if we try before shifting the situation.
 
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Portec said:
@BoneyM
1. Is shadowhorse actively channeled or a cast and forget spell? Starting communications on a fast (and fearless) horse to get away on seems prudent.
2. Or does Morghurs reported ability extends to artifacts? Than aktivating one near him would corrupt it (the robe is NEW)...
3. EXPERIMENT: Test different materials scourced from around/the expedition has spares to see what the desert consumes. (Only bones in it? what happene to the other stuff the riders carried in?)
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1. Cast and forget.
2. Try it and find out.
3. Takes too long to fit in the previous update.
 
ReImagined said:
If we learn that their wind shamans can still cast normally when attacking, that makes any kind of movement forward more viable.
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I forget, does Morghur make casting impossible or just tougher?

If it's the second, would we be able to tell if Morgue is doing anything? Even if a Shaman miscasts, miscasts happen all on their own, let alone in the Wastes.

Normally I'd be more confident in our wind sight, but it hasn't been super reliable with Morghur so far.

Here's hoping we can, cause that would be good info.
 
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