While that logic would fit Nagash, the bit that settles it for me is that under these definitions what Dark Elves do with it counts as True Dark Magic, but what actual literal Daemons do with it doesn't. The only way you could make that determination is if you studied the nature of Chaos and the nature of Dhar with such clarity that you could differentiate the two of them and declare that what the Elves are doing are closer to the true nature of Dhar than what Daemons are doing. Which might actually be true, but it's not a judgement the Colleges are equipped to make themselves.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
While that logic would fit Nagash, the bit that settles it for me is that under these definitions what Dark Elves do with it counts as True Dark Magic, but what actual literal Daemons do with it doesn't. The only way you could make that determination is if you studied the nature of Chaos and the nature of Dhar with such clarity that you could differentiate the two of them and declare that what the Elves are doing are closer to the true nature of Dhar than what Daemons are doing. Which might actually be true, but it's not a judgement the Colleges are equipped to make themselves.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Actually, you can only call it Dhar if it comes from the Dhar region of Naggoroth, otherwise it's just sparkling dark magic.
Hrm, so from the Druchii perspective:
-Using Dhar - Lesser sorcerors grabbing a bunch of Dhar squashing it into a shape and then flinging it before it explodes in their face.
-Used by Dhar - Daemons and other servants of Dark Powers aren't really 'using' the power, just getting high and doing what the Dhar likes to do.
-Really using Dhar - Make the Dhar your slave, the proper Druchii way. (hint, its a technique we see advanced necromancers using after their progenitor got it off the Druchii, but not Skaven)
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Just like you can only be a Phoenix King if you are from the Line of Aenarion, otherwise you are just an Impostor.
We've cracked the code guys, turns out the Asur-Druchii war was entirely about Geographical Indicators all along.
This would be extremely in character for the Dark Elves, that they consider taking absolute control of something to be 'truer' than its actual nature.
I guess what it comes down to is whether the Winds curdling takes them closer to their origin and thus Dhar is Chaos corruption with extra steps, in which case 'True Dark Magic' is pure arrogance, or if the Winds curdling is something separate and Dhar formation is actually taking it further away from Chaos, not closer, and that the new nature of this is closer to Dark Elves than it is to Daemons. I don't actually think this is impossible, I think it's an interesting question. I think it would have a lot of repercussions about the metaphysics of the setting and raises the question of whether there's further steps along that chain of evolving magical energies, and maybe there's something out there with its own metaphysical pull to compete with that of Chaos that is drawing Dhar further away from its origin as it compresses. And while that would be really interesting to explore, if all of those falling logical dominoes were intended to be true I don't think it's the sort of thing that GW would give away in a paragraph in a WFRPG splatbook as though it was common knowledge, they'd circle around it in their usual fashion with 'it is said by some' and 'forbidden scrolls theorize' and whatnot. So it strikes me as more likely that it's a handwave to explain non-Winds, non-evil magics that was rendered redundant by those magics actually getting their own distinct Lores in other splatbooks.
Turn 33 Results - 2486 - Part 2
[*] Push on and try to improve the spell
[*] The evidence points to a framejob
[*] The evidence points to a framejob
With the date to set out drawing closer and closer, you return to the drawing board - metaphorically speaking, since you're neither a barbarian nor an artist, you use a proper drafting machine - and begin to work longer into the nights to refine the delivery mechanism for Fog Path. What you've created so far is certainly functional, but it's also exhausting and would be highly reliant on spikes of ambient Ulgu at dawn and dusk to function for extended periods. There are parts of the initial attempt that can be salvaged, but it's going to take some creativity.
[Fog Path delivery mechanism, round two: Learning, 91+28+10(learning from mistakes)+5(Library: Ulgu)=134.]
The problem is simple: you're being too literal. You're allowing the spell to billow out from you and then dissipate, which is certainly thematic but hugely wasteful. Even in the roughest terrain, there'll be individual instances of Skywalk that are unnecessary, and allowing them to disappear and take the energy with them is pure folly. You need a way to draw back and reuse them. And rather than reinventing the wheel, you'll draw from nature. Specifically, the motion of waves on a beach.
Granted, you've never actually been to a beach - the closest you've been to the ocean is Barak Varr, which is all forbidding cliffs - but a close search of your library uncovers a number of Dwarf-written books that describe the formation and motion of waves, albeit in the way that one describes the habits of a dangerous and implacable foe, as you suppose saltwater in eternal motion must represent to a number of Dwarven endeavours. You consider and discard the ubiquitous undertow, as it would create too much turbulence at ground level where the individual spells are supposed to be activating. What you need is a rip current: a central column of returning energy that can then be sent out again, over and over until each part of it reaches a place where it is needed. This means that the only constant draw on the caster will be to provide enough motion to keep the spell going.
This could come with its own challenges, as instead of a constant and steady outpouring of new Skywalk instances, the caster needs to provide more only as they are needed. But instead of getting caught up in the design of a feedback mechanism you decide to take what you have now into a field experiment. It's entirely possible that the spell as it exists now would have cues for a watchful Wizard to spot when it's running low, and implementing something separate would be wasted effort. So you go over your notes one more time and then adjourn to the Grey Tower for testing.
[First cast: Req 50, Learning, 29+28+20(Grey Tower)-20(first time)=57.]
Once more you're surrounded in a cloud of turbulent fog as you barely manage to finish the spell, and once more you consider yourself quite lucky to have both a staff and a testing chamber perfectly suited for this activity. The first time casting a new spell is always troublesome, but it sure beats the Elven method where a spell candidate is meditated on for decades to study it for any possible flaw. You make the requisite corrections to your casting notes, perform the spell a few more times in perfect conditions to be sure, then you move onto stage two of testing.
---
"Go!"
Under the staring eyes of a still-growing crowd of Halflings, Johann begins to push the wheelbarrow with its cargo of Grey Wizard, his golden muscles allowing him to quickly accelerate through the billowing fog. The field in question is the most broken terrain anywhere in the Eastern Valley, having been harvested, ploughed in, left fallow, frozen, snowed on, thawed, and had the snowmelt carve furrows across it. Panoramia told you it's about to be ploughed once more so even if the spell fails you'll not be doing any lasting damage, but your confidence is rewarded as the wheel of the barrow glides over pits, rifts, and furrows. As your chanting continues - a simple mnemonic for the components of the modified Skywalk, but it sounds nice and mystical - Johann reaches a speed comparable to a galloping horse over terrain that it would be difficult to walk through. That's as good a confirmation as you're going to get, and you bang the side of the wheelbarrow to signal Johann to slow.
Your audience doesn't know what to make of what they just saw, but they do know they were entertained by it, and to their polite applause you dismount your wheelbarrow and turn to look over the field. If there was no trace of your path that would be a sign that you were wasting power, but on the few flat stretches you can see the wheel marks and footprints you left in your wake, showing that the spell only activated when needed. And you could feel the spell thinning out as the amount of Skywalk instances circulating lessened, serving as a suitable indicator of when more needed to be added. You thank one Halfling for the use of her field, another for the use of his wheelbarrow, and Johann for the use of his muscles.
This version of the spell is still too energy-intensive to be anything but Battle Magic, but the sustained energy requirements are reduced based on the terrain it encounters. If you're trying to drive over quicksand or something equally ill-advised you'd still be limited to a few hours at dawn and dusk, but for any more sensible terrain you should be able to manage it through the daylight hours and still be fresh enough that a good night's sleep will have you ready to begin again the next day. There's only one remaining component of the spell that requires work - its name.
[ ] Spell name - write in
---
You normally come to Belegar when you've got news to report, but with how sensitive the matter could turn out being, he comes to you - which allows you to set up a proper display of the evidence, including indications on a map where each piece was acquired and the relevant books on hand if he wants to drill deeper into any one component. "Steel from Reikland, ammunition from Wissenland, powder from Ancestors-know-where," he summarizes once you're done laying it out. "What do you read into it?"
"My initial thought was that it indicates Marienburg. If you draw a line from Marienburg to Winter's Teeth Pass, you pass almost directly through sources for all three. If you're already primed to think of them - as anyone would be for an attack on the Skull River - it's a very easy conclusion to reach. But Marienburg isn't a continental power like the Empire or the Karaz Ankor, they're a maritime one. Their idea of a direct line circles around the Old World and drops agents off somewhere on the Black Gulf or the Lagoon of Tears, and there'd be an Estalian barrel and Tilean shot or something like that."
"You think someone wants us to think of Marienburg?"
"I don't think it's the Empire, and I don't think it's just my own allegiances talking. The Empire might hypothetically want to retake Westerland at some point, but not now, not when Stirland's occupied with Vampires, Wissenland is still licking its wounds after the attack on Under-Nuln, Ostland is dealing with Yhetees, and things between Middenland and Nordland are still tense. All they want now is for the blockade to be lifted.
"If they wanted to force the issue, they've got the First Fleet in Altdorf and the Second Fleet in Nordland, they'd start attacking Norscan ships with the Second Fleet and make hue and cry to Kislev and Bretonnia when Marienburg refuses to lift the blockade and keeps the First Fleet from the battle." You phrase this as a hypothetical instead of the Chamberlain of the Seal's explicit idea, which makes it slightly less of a breaking of confidence. And besides, it's for the best of causes. "Marienburg has to be suffering from the blockade already, if they start losing business overseas as well they'd have to cave."
"Who, then? Back to Skaven?"
"It's certainly possible. Eshin were probably able to claim the credit for Mors being wiped out here, and this sort of thing would be within their usual practices. It could also be Naggaroth, they'd benefit more than anyone if the Karaz Ankor and Ulthuan go to war once more, and we know they've got contacts of some sort with the Skaven. And Chaos Cults are always a possibility. On top of that, if we consider that it might be an attempt to frame the Empire for attempting to frame Marienburg, that really opens up the suspect pool. Lahmian Vampires trying to take pressure off the Sylvanian holdouts, Chaos Dwarves trying to split the Karaz Ankor from its oldest ally, it could even be Marienburg - war between the Empire and the Karaz Ankor would definitely spike the canal project."
Belegar sighs. "So you're telling me it could be anyone."
"I'm telling you that I think someone's playing games. I think if the culprits get tracked down, they'll claim to have been put up to it by either Jan Jansen who wore silks and smelled of fish, or Max Mustermann who was munching on a sausage and had three feathers in his hat."
Belegar frowns, stepping closer to run his fingers along the map of the Empire. "This all makes someone suspect either Marienburg or the Empire," he says slowly. "But if it was Marienburg, they wouldn't have sourced the materials like that - even if they wanted to frame the Empire, they'd find it much easier to get Empire-made materials from somewhere on a coast or a major river, not that far up obscure tributaries. And if it was the Empire, they would have used Marienburg shot and barrels."
"That's my read."
"So it was either an incompetent plotter - and while nobody is short of incompetent plotters, they wouldn't be used for something so important, so if it was it must have been an independent actor who thinks they're smarter than they are - or it's someone that wants the Karaz Ankor to be weakened by war." He sighs. "Sometimes I miss the days when the enemies were right on the other side of a barricade. Thank you for taking the time to look into this."
You smile and give a short bow. "Of course."
---
Your return to the matter of the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms is a perfect opportunity to show off your Green Tower to Panoramia, who nods along as you explain the different components of it but is obviously itching to be unleashed upon the planters you set up, which occupies her for the next several days. It's certainly pleasant to have her nearby while you work on other things, but once she considers herself satisfied with the conditions that your fruit-bearing saplings are growing in (which are now significantly larger and noticeably lusher) it's time to return to the matter at hand. The central planters are set up in such a way that they can be magically isolated from each other and magical energy can be channelled in from elsewhere in your growing cluster of towers. You set up five groups of growing fungi: Ghyran, Ulgu, Aqshy, Azyr, and a magically-neutral control group.
Though Panoramia can't use magic to directly accelerate their growth, she's quickly able to identify near-ideal growing conditions and it only takes a few days for the first harvest. Careful examination within your White Tower confirms that they each possess only the Wind they were soaked in while growing, and careful experimentation reveals that once plucked their ability to absorb Winds decreases, making the danger of accidental contamination and creation of Dhar negligible if properly stored. With all that confirmed, there's nothing for it but to move on to actual testing of how useful a gutful of mushroom is.
[Casting with fungal assistance: Learning, 78+28=106.]
Yep, just as unpleasant to eat as you remembered. You grimace your way through chewing on it and wait for the odd sensation of magic being 'digested' - technically the mushroom being digested and the magic flowing into you as it becomes no longer able to cling to the substance of the mushroom. You run through a few spells and notice that you do have slightly less need to draw on ambient magical energy than normal, but it's far from a surge of power, and a surge of power is the sort of thing that the Goblins who originally grew these mushrooms would have been looking for. Panoramia tries reducing the mushroom to a powder to be mixed with water and drunk, but the drying of an Ulgu-rich mushroom causes the Ulgu to escape. The same proves true for the Aqshy and Ghyran mushrooms, but the Azyr ones retain their energy. You consider turning testing over to Hubert, but even if he hadn't already left with the Winter Wolves it probably wouldn't be a great idea.
It's common knowledge that cooked mushrooms sit easier in the stomach than raw ones, so your hope is that the magic inside would be more easily unleashed as well. So you and Panoramia take advantage of an often underappreciated resource: the cooking skills of the Halflings, who turn out to know of more ways to prepare and preserve mushrooms than you could have begun to guess. Hluodwica appears to take the mushrooms as a personal challenge, and when unleashed upon the control group manage to find ways to perform the impossible: making the mushrooms not only palatable, but actually tasty.
You turn the techniques that Hluodwica has created onto the Wind-rich mushrooms and are able to find ones that work for each of them: smoking for Aqshy, pickling for Ghyran, and for Ulgu, mincing, spicing, lightly cooking in butter, and being reduced to a paste that is placed inside a bite-sized pie. Careful study confirms that it still contains the magical energies, and further study confirms that it is delicious. The magic inside flows into you much faster, and while it's not really enough to tip the scales for someone at your level of spellcasting ability, it could make a significant difference to those not yet able to easily draw on large amounts of ambient Winds - which could be a very useful resource for Journeymen. You prepare a significant amount of the Azyr specimens for Hubert to use on the Expedition.
[New papers available: Windsoak Mushrooms - Ulgu, Aqshy, Ghyran, Azyr.]
Thus concludes the work Mathilde performed these past months, but not every waking moment was filled with work. With whom did she spend her free time? The three with the most votes will be chosen, not counting those locked in.
[+] Panoramia (locked in)
Expedition
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
[ ] Join Hubert and the Winter Wolves for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
[ ] Join Esbern, Seija, and the Knights of Taal's Fury for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
Fellow Wizards
[ ] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[ ] Adela, to see how her gradual nepotistic takeover of the Karag Nar Gunnery School is going.
Karak Eight Peaks Notables
[ ] Francesco Caravello, proud Viceroy of the Undumgi.
[ ] Spend some time exploring the Karak now that everyone has spread out into their hopefully permanent Clan Halls.
Foreign Relations
[ ] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
Friends Abroad
[ ] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[ ] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
Following Up
[ ] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[ ] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[ ] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[ ] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
- There will be a two hour moratorium.
- Panoramia is a lock-in for this turn only. You're about to go voyaging into hell's front yard, if she wasn't a lock-in she'd be coming for your Initiated By Someone Else slot that would be there instead.
- There'll be a run-down of all the practice and advancement people have made in their preparations for the Expedition separate to the social turn.
- Other suggestions for social actions are welcome.
- My current plan for the Expedition is that I'll be switching to a Karak Kadrin avatar for the duration of it, as they're the primary sponsors of it and as far as I'm aware there's no canonical Karag Dum flag or insignia. If anyone's feeling creative, a fan-created Karag Dum flag or insignia would fit much better.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Personally, I've thought that the difference between Qhaysh, Dhar, and True Dhar is simply a matter of how you assembled the conflicting energies, with both Qhaysh and True Dhar exploiting something akin to the First Secret of Dhar but on a deeper level (deeper in the sense of "I wrote this program in Assembly")
Thinking of:
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
[ ] Join Hubert and the Winter Wolves for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
[ ] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
[ ] Join Hubert and the Winter Wolves for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
[ ] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Nice! Looks like our cram session was worth it!
Elf/Dwarf Loremaster/Runelord: [Synchronized Spitting of Blood]
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Nice. That worked out well, praise Ranald. So does this mean that we can deploy it tactically as well as strategically, not as limited by time of day? It's not clear to me which restrictions we were actually able to solve.
This is basically the thing I wanted us to communicate, so I'm happy we did. "Someone is playing silly buggers."
Excellent. This was a good choice of wizard action.
[ ] Spell name - Rite of Way
@Alliterate's idea is great and needs no improvement.
That's new, and I'm very curious about it, especially given the Celestials' warning.
So we now have the option to write Mathildes Magical Cookbook? Nice!
Ah I have the perfect name: Mathildes Magical Munchies!
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
*whistles* The mushrooms went better then I was expecting. It will be well worth publishing those.
Ambit
Help me
- Location
- Third Circle of Hell
I literally let out a sigh of relief when I saw this. Thank goodness the overwork wasn't wasted.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
My vote will be good the following:
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
Met everyone, establish authority, focus on the new kids rather than the people we already know and trust.
[ ] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
I'd like to see Roswita one more time before the war is concluded.
[ ] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
She's our favorite Duckling, and she is working with a merc unit who will be keeping a kid on things around the Karak while we are gone. Giving her a rundown on what we think is up should help her help us
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
Met everyone, establish authority, focus on the new kids rather than the people we already know and trust.
[ ] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
I'd like to see Roswita one more time before the war is concluded.
[ ] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
She's our favorite Duckling, and she is working with a merc unit who will be keeping a kid on things around the Karak while we are gone. Giving her a rundown on what we think is up should help her help us
Added:
This version of the spell is still too energy-intensive to be anything but Battle Magic, but it's able to dial back the sustained energy requirements based on the terrain it encounters. If you're trying to drive over quicksand or something equally ill-advised you'd still be limited to a few hours at dawn and dusk, but for any more sensible terrain you should be able to manage it through the daylight hours and still be fresh enough that a good night's sleep will have you ready to begin again the next day.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Yesss, that's more like it, 'thilde.
And here we have a gamechanger. We can have cavalry charge across a bog, and that's
Excellent work in working in all the "subconscious of Mathilde" that we are. I think we got the point across to Belegar pretty clearly. I'm not regretting my change of vote to this.
Okay, that was a clutch time for a +90 roll. @BoneyM could you give us what you intend to be the "Fog Path" spell's final spellbook description, complexity, etc? Knowing the details might make it easier to make sure the name fits.
EDIT: Though I see you already explained some of that in a reply.
EDIT: Though I see you already explained some of that in a reply.
- Location
- Europe
Now this, this I like to see.
Also, the mushrooms look like a fascinating resource to cultivate for the colleges. It might even help them teach apprentices and Journey-manlings.
- Location
- Sweden, Europe, Earth, Sol
Fffffffiiiiiinnnnaaaaalllllyyyyyy!!!!
Fog Path, aka "Mathilde's Rite of Way" is gonna be so amazingly useful, not just for us. Like holy shit the logistical benefits alone... if this can be taught en masse to some of the better Grey Wizards I think that the Grey College is gonna fucking soar in importance.
EDIT: Oh, and it's not even properly refined at the moment xD
Fog Path, aka "Mathilde's Rite of Way" is gonna be so amazingly useful, not just for us. Like holy shit the logistical benefits alone... if this can be taught en masse to some of the better Grey Wizards I think that the Grey College is gonna fucking soar in importance.
EDIT: Oh, and it's not even properly refined at the moment xD
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- Location
- Goose Land
[] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
This might be our last time to check in on them, so better to make sure any last business is sorted.
[] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
We haven't seen Julia is literal decades I think. A pop in to say hello before Hell feels good to me.
[] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
We'll see who exactly is there, get a sense of the players, and know where to spot trouble.
This might be our last time to check in on them, so better to make sure any last business is sorted.
[] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
We haven't seen Julia is literal decades I think. A pop in to say hello before Hell feels good to me.
[] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
We'll see who exactly is there, get a sense of the players, and know where to spot trouble.
Travler66
Let her name echo in song!
- Location
- Beyond
Are we finally going to check on Julia now?
Something along the lines of: Battle Magic. For as long as the Wizard sustains the spell, all terrain encountered by them, their steed, and anyone alongside or behind them feels as flat and steady as the most well-maintained road. Its only limitation is that it must hug the physical terrain, so it will still curve with hills and will not be able to bridge deep gorges or chart a route into the sky. The Wizard cannot cast other spells while sustaining [insert name].
[ ] Greet and get to know the Wizards joining the Expedition as they arrive at Praag.
Only sensible.
[ ] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
I'm genuinely curious about their culture...and I kind of feel the jawdrop would be more fun if we knew them as more than some random faces.
That leaves a third in the air and I'm struggling between these:
[ ] Join Esbern, Seija, and the Knights of Taal's Fury for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
Its been a while since we chatted with them, so more would be pleasant.
[ ] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
Or if we wanted to line up the death flags...
Only sensible.
[ ] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
I'm genuinely curious about their culture...and I kind of feel the jawdrop would be more fun if we knew them as more than some random faces.
That leaves a third in the air and I'm struggling between these:
[ ] Join Esbern, Seija, and the Knights of Taal's Fury for the final leg of their journey to Praag.
Its been a while since we chatted with them, so more would be pleasant.
[ ] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
Or if we wanted to line up the death flags...
