NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They're kinda like human Slayers but like so many human versions of Dwarf things, worse in every way.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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I meant, I imagine that even farm hands, miners (hell, even village bakers) are probably, for reasons of survival l, closer in capabilities to real life medieval militias than being pure civilians.
This would be especially the case in villages and small towns, and gradually drop off as the settlements get bigger.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Especially the bakers, have you seen what happens when accidentally bake bread with Orc spores instead of yeast? Not to mention what happened the last time one of them escaped and became a warboss...
The Orcish Warburton was the weirdest war boss ever.
Not true they are better in one aspect the one all human things have over dwarf things and very important in the case of suicide troops, expendability.
Fitter, maybe.
Armed, probably a knife, cudgel or an axe is about routine...but the amount of combat ability you can pick up without dedicating a significant chunk of your time to isn't going to be relevant in an army clash, they are for all intents and purposes, civilians who may be able to smack down a hungry fox certainly.
Being as capable in a fight as someone who spends every weekend sparring and dueling instead of going to market, keeping in touch with the neighbors, tending to the kids?
No, not without rather massive differences in how society works. Militia can do it because its usually 1-2 healthy adults/young adults doing it while the rest of their families take up the slack on the non combat things that still needs to be done.
Most people are noncombatants in settled civilizations for a reason. The kind of all-round readiness for danger is a big part of what makes nomadic civilizations unable to actually DO much.
The actually members of the First Crusade went by sea and land and payed for supplies before they were welcomed in Constantinople were they worked out a deal with the Emperor for supplies and other things. It was only when they got to the area around the city of Acre and had been in Muslim controlled territory that they started having real troubles when it came to supplies which would be a issues until they took Jerusalem. The People's Crusade and the other groups that caused conflict in places like Hungry were not sanctioned by anyone. Still getting a semi-reliable source of supplies would be a very good thing to have in semi-hostile territory.
Among the humans they do in the Old World and its surrounding areas and I doubt the Iron Wolf Tribe would look very similar when it comes to armor or sigils. Their symbol was posted earlier and it looks nothing like the ones used by the followers of the Wolf God. Our knights are going to look different enough from Chaos knights that it would be noticed and talked about. The Dolgan might not renege on the deal we make with them but they could talk to other tribes that would have no issues attacking the possible Imperials and regular dwarfs. The only other Group who ride wolfs are Hobgoblins when it comes to the Steppes and Winter Wolfs are much bigger then the their mounts and are being ridden by humans in plate.
But we are imitating a Dragon when we use the Flask and Dragons don't care about what monkeys think is cool as they flash fry what ever was dumb enough to annoy them.
You seem to have forgotten that one of the Grey Collages jobs is finding traitors and Bird Brain has allowed one to come with in our line of sight. Through us the Gambler is going to have fun disrupting the Plotters schemes.
So considering we are going to the Dwarf Karak that has spent the most time fight the servants of the Ruinous Powers out of all of them what is making some of you guys think we won't need a dwarf who understands Arcane Khazalid for this rescue mission. Runecraft is the most effective way for the dwarfs to fight Demons so I would not be surprised if there are traps only those who see themselves as "Runemasters" could turn of. The fact that there were vaults in Karak Eight-Peaks that only Krag could open suggests to me that is the Dwarfs of Karag Dum thought they were done for they would lock on the important stuff as tight as they could. Whike I can understand not wanting to force someone to come along with us to hell I would like to point out that there is something in Karag Dum that the Dwarfs of the Karaz Ankor would consider worth the life of a Runesmith and a good portion of the expedition and that would be one of Grimnir's Axes. Their are probably other treasures that could be left behind with some one present who understands the Arcane side of Khazalid. It could also help us if we run in to Chaos Dwarf stuff and we need to have some understanding of what it might do.
@BoneyM To by pass the the issue of bringing along someone who does not want to come I have a question. While we asked Thorek and through him the Runesmiths of Karak Azul if any of them would come with us could we ask him if he knows of any radical Runesmiths who would want to come with us or at least any one who was during the schism of sorts 200 years on the side of the Runesmiths from Karag Dum during the debates that lead to it?
By the time they see it clearly its already too late to do anything other than try a suicidal assault or watch us pass.
...assuming we travel with full banners spread and taunting. Which theres no reason to.
What they would see is wolf riders traveling at speed alongside a monstrous contraption with various magics hanging around.
- Location
- Utrecht
You're assuming that Horstmann is actually a traitor using meta knowledge here. He might not be. Van Horstmann could actually very much be like us, someone who's read forbidden knowledge and is using it extract insight and turn it against the enemy.
Like us, he might not yet have crossed the line.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
It is entirely possible that is the case, yes. But the problem is, Horstmann didn't turn traitor from reading forbidden knowledge or (mis)handling a Chaos artifact. He had already made pacts with Daemons before he ever became a member of the Light Order, and expressly joined it to avenge them throwing him and a relative into a pit of snakes (WTF Hierophants). That Horstmann is still here, as a Magister of the Light Order, one who has risen to the rank with notable speed at that. Which in canon, he achieved through bolstering his powers and knowledge through summoning and binding Daemons.
Again, it is entirely possible he is very much like Mathilde, and still loyal to the Empire (or at least not in the service of Chaos). But it is not unreasonable to think he has gone down the same path as he originally did, seeing as the only point of divergence we have thus far witnessed is being on the Karak Dum expedition.
The GM has noted that those books should be considered non-canon in their entirety, so it's not a matter of PoDs when it comes to most of the canon information on Horstman, it simply is not valid/relevant to this quest.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Ah, I must have missed that. Carry on, then.
Karak Azul had almost no contact with the wider Karaz Ankor until Eight Peaks was retaken. Nobody there is going to be a great resource for headhunting outside of it.
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On a seperate topic, I wonder when exactly in the war Karak Dum was cut off. Because if it was early, and there are survivors, we may need to explain that yes, chaos no longer has a monopoly on human magic.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Except that that's not how DF works here. It can be handed around and arrive at a Dwarf that never even met Mathilde. So the only chance that we get someone who doesn't want to be there is that either literally no Runesmith is willing to go and they end up drawing lots to fulfill our demand or if the Runesmith that jumps at the opportunity actually only came because he's so much in debt already and so bad at gaining generic favor despite being a Runesmith that he doesn't have other options than this crazy expedition or going Slayer and joining anyway.
In the end, Dwarf Favor seems so formalized that it is pretty much just a fiat currency. So you're not wrong that it represents debt, but so does every Dollar or Euro you have in your pocket.
How is losing our dear Ducklings no risk and only reward? Like, sure, if you treat this world purely as a game then our numbers don't go down and the future screen time filled by them will instead be filled with someone else. But do you really think that IC Mathilde cares more about a hit on her Dwarf Rep than losing, say, Hubert?
And that's not even taking into account the loss of Johann and Max. Especially the latter would probably cost us more College Favor in the long run than the one time Dwarf Rep and Favor loss is worth.
Paying with DF is not the same as conscripting. If the Dwarves allowed anyone with 6 favor to literally conscript Runesmiths to any dangerous military activity they feel like then they would be very much insane.
Actually... is it not? Like, not from a high minded and objective point of view. But I'm pretty sure that your average Dwarf in a position of authority values a single Dwarven life more highly than your average Empire human in a position of authority does the life of an Empire citizen. And Dwarf replacement value is also higher.
It's more that if we hire a Runesmith for this, it will more likely than not be one from Azul, because the pay they get is a standard one but non-Azul Runesmiths will have a higher aversion to overcome. Ignoring communication issues, jobs like this usually go to either the person most okay with doing it or the person most in need of the currency. Not ignoring communication issues, Azul Runesmiths are literally the closest and the most familiar to Mathilde.
Thorek can't justify just sending a Runesmith volunteer because he considers their current job more important. If we pay for the Runesmith's leave then presumably said currency can at least in part make up for the fact that Azul (and by extension K8P) are down one Runesmith for a while. Hell, I'd be willing to pay 50% extra, if that's what it takes.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
'Non-Chaos human Wizards' shouldn't be the biggest shock, the Ice Witches and Damsels predate the Colleges by quite a bit.
Male Wizards might be more surprising to them.
Yes, on second thought, the empire specifically having wizards may be more shocking.
Not quite that clear cut.
Spending 6 favor hires one for a job.
Not necessarily risking their lives for said job.
If we hired Melkoth to teach us the Miasma and then he died as a result...well its not our fault but we're going to have to deal with the fallout of having hired someone not necessarily to deliberately risk death but ending up doing so regardless.
- Location
- Finland
Hiring with favour is basicly us trading aid to dwarves in general, to a service by one dwarf in specific.
In theory that dorf in question could probably say no, but someone has to do it.
So by handing AV for a runesmith we are kinda making a large donation to dwarves in general, and turning around and making one dwarf to pay for it.
I'm happy to do it for stuff like the magic rooms, or help with towers, but asking someone to walk into the wastes to pay of a racial debt feels wrong.
In theory that dorf in question could probably say no, but someone has to do it.
So by handing AV for a runesmith we are kinda making a large donation to dwarves in general, and turning around and making one dwarf to pay for it.
I'm happy to do it for stuff like the magic rooms, or help with towers, but asking someone to walk into the wastes to pay of a racial debt feels wrong.
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Isn't DF more on leaning on the Dwarfs who owe Mathilde - which would primarily be Karak Eight Peaks and then Karak Azul but she's got ins with basically every dwarf royal outside of Karaz-a-Karak and the top two Runesmiths - that in turn use their own influence and power to complete whatever is requested?
Thorek is unlikely to have personally built the chambers in the College with his own hands but he took care of all the hiring and labour in exchange for the AV if I understand correctly.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Good summary. I'd still be willing to do it, if the need were sufficiently great, but we don't know that it is. Possibly stuff will turn up later in the turn to shed some light one way or another before we have to decide.
- Location
- Finland
It's leaning on dwarves we know, who then lean on dwarves they know, who will lean on dwarves they know, etc...
Until someone either volunteers, or gets volunteered, to do the thing.
Giving AV gives generin dwarf favour, so we could trade it for almost anything from dwarves, rune related or otherwise.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Giving the runesmiths AV gives us dwarf favour in general but it's favour from the Rune smiths. That's why AV lets us bypass a lot of their reticence, Spending dwarf favour for the colleges wouldnt have got us the calamity rooms, spending AV did, because with AV it's explicitly the Runesmiths that owe us, not just dwarves as a whole. Now we can cash that favour out else where because Mathilde is good at using influence and the dwarves take debt seriously.
Agreed. We took our shot and it failed (or succeeded as far as it's going to if you look at it that way).