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hmm, at what point is a unique, player-generated quest character important enough to merit recursive fanfiction?
I don't really think there's a line. I've seen fanfiction of fanfiction (including fanfiction of fanfiction of fanfiction that crossed over one of the previous levels with canon), the only thing that matters is that you care enough to write it and everyone in the situation is cool with it.
 
If we negotiate safe passage, there will be possibility that they now knew there will be steel wagons comming through and betray us.

We need more info. Speak more with this guy, gather info about his friends and enemies, what would be in his best interest...

These people are barbarians sure, but we will need guide and some intel.

Where to find water, whats the local danger.. so on and so forth
 
Finally caught up! This has been such a cool story BoneyM and I'm glad to get the chance to be apart of it
Welcome to the front lines! 🥳
If we negotiate safe passage, there will be possibility that they now knew there will be steel wagons comming through and betray us.

We need more info. Speak more with this guy, gather info about his friends and enemies, what would be in his best interest...

These people are barbarians sure, but we will need guide and some intel.

Where to find water, whats the local danger.. so on and so forth
The thing is, right now is the part of the conversation where we have to put up or shut up.
The information this Shaman has given you out of simple courtesy is already valuable, but if you could reach an accord with his people, even greater things could come of it. An agreement to allow passage would make safe what could otherwise be a very dangerous leg of the journey. If they would sell livestock to the steam-wagons, supply concerns would vanish. If they would take advantage of the weakened Yusak at the right time, the entire passage from the Dark Lands to the Chaos Wastes would be laid open, and it's likely all that would take is the Dolgan being prepared to take advantage of the Yusak being distracted by the steam-wagons and the many knights passing through their territory. Or if they could even be talked into selling military aid to the Expedition... Dolgan mercenaries would be able to live off the land and wouldn't need transporting all the way from Praag, they'd be in their element for any conflict that might need them, and they might help in dealing with any other Kurgan that might present an obstacle to the Expedition.

Or on the other hand, it might be best to leave well enough alone. Any deal would likely involve precious metals changing hands, and paying the servants of Chaos is unlikely to sit well with many - though you should be able to keep the details concealed from most. And though you'd do your best to not give away details that would leave the Expedition vulnerable to betrayal, could any deception serve if the Plotter might be involved? Then again, if the Plotter's attention does turn this way, it's very possible that no amount of secrecy would serve...

If an accord is to be reached, it should be now. The Dolgans are more likely to be amenable to a deal now than when they have giant metal behemoths on wheels show up on their lands. You're not sure whether they'd see the steam-wagons as as a threat, as prey, or as loot, but they'd probably not see them as a potential trade partner.
If we keep pushing for information without saying what it is we want, we look suspicious as hell and there's no deal. At this point, we say what our goal is, probably some dice get rolled, and depending on the result some sort of deal is possible, and then maybe we get more information out of him. But we need to decide what it is we want from these people now, with incomplete information.
 
Approval voting time!
[X] Seek passage and supplies for the Expedition
[X] Seek passage, supplies, and for the Dolgan to attack the Yusak
[X] Seek passage, supplies, and to purchase the service of Dolgan mercenaries
 
I feel like the benefit of having a source of supplies is way underestimated. I was listening to a part of the history of the first Crusade a while ago, and it would have made things unimaginably easier for the Crusaders if they had been able to negotiate resupplies (and safe passage) while on a similar trek.

Really not getting the logic of being willing to negotiate so far as to pay for passage, but not willing to buy some sheep while we're at it. I mean if nothing else, they might betray us on the safe passage but at least we'll get the food first.
 
I was listening to a part of the history of the first Crusade a while ago, and it would have made things unimaginably easier for the Crusaders if they had been able to negotiate resupplies (and safe passage) while on a similar trek.
To be fair, the Crusaders did get supplies eventually. It took them sacking and burning lots of Christian cities on their way to the Holy Land but if they were true Christians they shouldn't have been near the Crusaders when they ran out of supplies due to completely preventable lack of planning, the heretics.
 
Familiars:
[The familiar bond] gets fuzzy and unreliable with extreme distances. Unless she properly meditates and focuses, it's limited to things like checking on his general mental state.
so how much 'puppy pining for owner' is mathy going to have to deal with as the link gets fuzzier and fuzzier?

or is it Wolf thats going to have to deal with 'owner pining for puppy'?

 
Sorry for the long post but it can be hard to keep up with this thread what with work and life.
Not Warhammer vampires, even if she could find a genuine crucifix and see it as more than a macabre charm of some gruesome proscribed cult.
I am unsure whether regular hammers work for that actually. I think they have to be specifically holy symbols though. Like, you can't just use any chalice and claim it's a holy symbol of the Lady, it has to specifically be made to be a holy symbol.
The Warp goes beyond Mallus though. I just don't think that a random crucifix that Mathilde happens to hold towards a Warhammer Vampire would do much, due to Mathilde's lack of possible intent, due to how Vampires are different, and due to how even in popular perception a Vampire's own faith and believes can often matter regarding their vulnerability to holy symbols in situations where said symbols don't have direct divine backing.

The Vampires of Warhammer are interesting in that they have issues with the symbols of some gods but not others. Morr's power first and foremost along with his symbols are the most damaging to them but their issues with Sigmar and his symbols and power partly has to do with them running the hell away when Sigmar beating the stuffing out of Nagash and the first Necromancer cursed them for their corwardness with a weakness to the Hammer and his symbols. This has since mixed with the fact that Sigmar ascended to become a god to mean that his symbols and power burn the hell out of most Vampires more effectively then every god but Morr himself. The rest of the human gods symbols having a effect depends on the Vampire in question and what they were before they were turned and what they have done after they gain a dependence on human blood.

"Wonderful news my beloved birdfriend acolyte! I have a most cunning test devised for you!"

Bird man might be making plans but remember this is a rescue mission slash heist and those are the domain of our boss slash friend in the warp. I am willing to believe to god of gamblers has the advantage when things depend on the roll


Norscans are common sights at every northern port. Marienburg's fortunes were built on a foundation of Norscan fur and amber. The Gospodar were Chaos-worshipping steppe nomads before they converted to the Ancient Widow and founded Kislev, and they currently have Kurgans in their military. This is not 40k and the situation is not as black and white as you are portraying.

The Vampires of Warhammer are interesting in that they have issues with the symbols of some gods but not others. Morr's power first and foremost along with his symbols are the most damaging to them but their issues with Sigmar and his symbols and power partly has to do with them running the hell away when Sigmar beating the stuffing out of Nagash and the first Necromancer cursed them for their corwardness with a weakness to the Hammer and his symbols. This has since mixed with the fact that Sigmar ascended to become a god to mean that his symbols and power burn the hell out of most Vampires more effectively then every god but Morr himself. The rest of the human gods symbols having a effect depends on the Vampire in question and what they were before they were turned and what they have done after they gain a dependence on human blood.

So they say. The Dolgan probably have a bear spirit they could upgrade to a god and claim to have solely worshipped if they wanted to get along with the Empire, too.


Boss while I agree with the point you are making I would like to point out that the Gospador left the Great Steppe and traveled to Old World because they refused to serve the Four as the other Tribes came to and were looking for a place that was both free of their power and would give. Them saying they are cousins to the Kurgan does not mean they were just another group of Kurgan more then 1,000 years ago but simple had the same origins on the Steppes as them, a common ancestor group if Also the Gospador were very much a enemy of the Northern provinces of the Empire when they came over the High Pass and there was much conflict with them for a long time before the borders "stabilized" and the two sides started coming to accords. The Empire would not have eventually come to the point of making Allies with Kislev if it was clear they were Chaos tainted from the start. Parts of the Empire may trade with the Southern tribes of Norsca but they know that a Norscan is as likely to be coming to kill you as he is to trade with you. The level of trust that the Heirs of of Sigmar have in the Kislevites is much greater then for their old enemies north across the sea and for good reason.

I would also say that it's not a bad idea if we go and talk to Yusak Tribe because we came to scout not make deals. We could go and talk to the tribe that has fallen out with the four and are looking for a place to go which could make them useful to use in ways the Dolgan would try to kill us for bringing up because they are desperate. The Yusak might a fulcrum we could turn very much in your favor is we are smart. Though that does presuppose that they are not trying to get back in the Four's "good graces" right now though even if they were we could use that. It might be a gamble but in my mind the best choice is to try and get more information on how things stand right now

[X] Seek to make contact with the Yusak instead

No, she can't fly, so would have to ride, so the Dolgans would know she did.
Chaos 101. You go on a pilgrimage to gain the favour of the Gods. Punishing those the Gods have turned their backs on is also a great way to gain the favour of the Gods. Being able to dunk on a disfavoured tribe while pilgrimaging would be a huge stroke of luck, and would be seen as divine providence and a clear message of what the Gods want you to do.



It's not like ducking through a room, it's crossing a territory the size of a province, one that she now knows for sure includes people who can see magic.

[X] Seek passage and supplies for the Expedition


And looking like we're trying to look like we're not going to see the Yusak will make us seem infinitely more suspicious.

So would I be right in saying that we could not use your shadow magic to pass unseen be the Dolgan after this meeting. Also if the Dolgan lands are as big as say Hochland then the chances we would run in to this same group of people again would a slim one. Even if we ran into a different Shaman how would they know we are the person who talked to the Ghur Shaman unless we tell them. Is it because he would remember our disguise and tell others to be on the look out for us.

Also just what do we look like to the Wind of Beasts user if I might ask? Plus considering he said he serves the Untamed of the Eight does that mean we have to worry about running in to Sayl the faithless because that sounds like a title the Kurgan would give him and he does lead the Dolgan for a time?
You don't have to go all the way to elven parables to find wind worshiping. The Druids who became the Jade Order were 'Shamans' of the Green Wind before Teclis, only they did not perceive it as Wind but as the Green Mother because unlike the Kurgans they could not see it as a distinct stream of power howling overhead.

The Earth or Green mother is implied to be a god of the humans that lived in the Riek basin before the Tribes that would form the Empire arrived in the old worlds from what was becoming the Dark Lands in the RPG,
though, so saying they were worshipping a wind is a bit much when Teclis started working with them. It would also give perspective on their connection to the Priesthood's of Taal and Ryha. Whether the Winds are gods or just fickle streams of power flowing out of the holes in reality at the poles seems to be something that would be clear to Mathilde One way or the other as she knows what the divine looks like.

This was the case very briefly before I remembered that the timeline didn't add up (Asarnil was banished shortly after Karag Dum was lost) and edited it so he had just heard about them. But yes, he has worked for Dwarves before.

(there's a certain bitter irony to the fact that the Dwarves are willing to deal with Asarnil because he was disavowed by the Phoenix King for being a hero without permission, but the War of the Beard happened because the Phoenix King wouldn't disavow the followers of Malekith)

The thing is the High Elfs did disavow the attacks on the dwarfs as not being their actions and before the Dwarf ambassadors got to Ulthuan their were already dwarfs killing High Elf's for what they thought had happened.
Malekith use his deep knowledge of the dwarfs and both sides prejudices against them to kick of the conflict. Asarnil was not banished because he did the "right thing" , He was banished because he disobeyed direct orders from the Phoenix King and up thousands of Elf lives at risk because they expect him to take the field with Finubar's army and he did not show. His pride prevented him from acknowledging that he put others at risk by charging of with out Letting the King now why and the Elf noted for his diplomatic skill and willingness to work with humans and rebuild ties with the dwarfs was force to banish him. It is still his pride that prevents him from going back and bowing to the Phoenix throne as Finubar is not one to hold a grudge and would welcome him back. Remember pride is the flaw of Caladorians when it comes to the Elves and the Dragon Rides are the most prideful of all.


So the thing is, we can't conceal the fact that there will be some kind of group passing through if we want safe passage. That said, literally everything else about it we can lie, misdirect, and plant false information (both in the event of betrayal and to generally have the gossip about "the group that shadow wizard mentioned might be coming through" be info that will misdirect our enemies to our benefit)

The best kind of deception is one where the victim thinks they're getting one over you - so anything we "let slip" in the way of inferences that could be made would be ideal and Mathilde has plenty of experience with this from what I recall.







Hey we're pro-Ranald - tzeentch can be a secret aspect of ranald if it asks nicely.

We could not hide the passage of the large group we are going to be moving with I agree but has anyone thought about how we are going to hide the knightly Templar's we are being along because I am pretty sure the Kurgan have some basic knowledge of the Iconography of the followers of Ulric. So we will be hard pressed to make them look like servants of the Four.

Well, the only Kurgan shaman I'm immediately aware of from canon is Sayl the Faithless. He's got the same magic rating on tabletop as a Prophetess or standard Battle Wizard Lord, and can cast from both Azyr and Ulgu.

Now, he would qualify under 'occasional legendary figure', but his backstory does state that he's defeated rivals who were more powerful than him, so he's apparently not an exemplary when it comes to magical ability among the Kurgan.

He is also a full Chaos sorcerer and has been for a long time so a Mono-wind Shaman he is not. As well as being heavily mutated such that he only has one Eye and one normal hand.
 
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So would I be right in saying that we could not use your shadow magic to pass unseen be the Dolgan after this meeting.
I don't think she can hold a spell for that long, and recasting every few minutes is asking for trouble. Especially this far north.

lus considering he said he serves the Untamed of the Eight does that mean we have to worry about running in to Sayl the faithless because that sounds like a title the Kurgan would give him and he does lead the Dolgan for a time?
It means he's a Ghur shaman.

before the Tribes that would form the Empire arrived in the old worlds from what was becoming the Dark Lands in the RPG
The Wolflands are said to be the origin of some of the tribes. We don't exactly have anything concrete on their origins.
 
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But if organized education isn't needed to get battle magic and keep people from accidentally doing Dhar stuff or blowing themselves up while trying to cast anything truly difficult, then what exactly is it for?
While many of you gave insightful perspectives on why the Colleges are vital even if they didn't matter when it comes to developing, learning and successfully casting Battle Magic or achieving other feats worthy of a Lord Magister without requiring you to be a Chaos Sorcerer or an Elf, I'm still skeptical that the Kurgan actually do have mono-Wind Shamans that could rival a Lord Magister outside the occasional legendary figure.
Looking at individual accomplishments miss out on the point of institutions.
Each and every tribal shaman is either self taught or apprenticed to a previous shaman.

Each shaman's magical paradigm is entirely unique to themselves, and whatever they learn are either going to be the Wind's tendencies or the shaman's personal relationship to the Wind.
Whatever one shaman discovers would remain unique to the shaman, their overall body is not going to gain anything. While the Colleges do not always find or make their discoveries sharable, they do make an attempt and the apprentices and journeymen of each generation are stronger than the last, meaning more and more will make it to Magister as time passes

And all of them are essentially Battle Wizard track, the survival rate is not good.
Sure, their greatest champions are comparable, but its all luck, talent and the Dark Powers up there.
So would I be right in saying that we could not use your shadow magic to pass unseen be the Dolgan after this meeting. Also if the Dolgan lands are as big as say Hochland then the chances we would run in to this same group of people again would a slim one. Even if we ran into a different Shaman how would they know we are the person who talked to the Ghur Shaman unless we tell them. Is it because he would remember our disguise and tell others to be on the look out for us.
Think it mostly just means that we have to try, and that we want to disengage completely.
Mathilde does have fairly good stealth, but its hard to sneak on a shadowsteed and the Steppes are kind of massive on foot.

We'd have to disengage completely, wait out the timer, THEN ride through on another season, avoiding all contact until we clear their territory.
We could not hide the passage of the large group we are going to be moving with I agree but has anyone thought about how we are going to hide the knightly Templar's we are being along because I am pretty sure the Kurgan have some basic knowledge of the Iconography of the followers of Ulric. So we will be hard pressed to make them look like servants of the Four.
Ulricans do not have a monopoly on wolf sigils, or riding wolves.
 
[x] Seek passage and supplies for the Expedition
[X] Seek passage, supplies, and for the Dolgan to attack the Yusak
"They're gonna be hella fucking distracted in about six months time..." would do the trick.
I see no reason not to do it if this is all it costs. Also if the Dolgan are already busy fighting someone else going back on their deal with us becomes less tempting.
 
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We really should try to start a war in the north. That way the local tribes will be totally out of position and much less able to react to and attack the Expedition. There will also be les of them.

We'd be replicating the environment of mutual warfare/hostility between the local factions we so thoroughly exploited in Karak Eight Peak to such amazing success. We can also then stir the pot with things like Doppleganger before the expedition arrives to maximise Kurgan casualties and kill their most dangerous champions.

It's an amazing opportunity that we should seize with both physical and as many Shadow hands as we can.
Maximum British strat. Have the local tribes kill each other whilst we drive BFG into them and run the remains over
 
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