Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
There's gyrocopter patrols for blind spots and long distance scouting and every mountain in Karak Eight Peaks likely has its own observation posts to see in the immediate vicinity.
If something can be done just as well in a mundane fashion then we probably shouldn't bother?
Damsels do bring new stuff to the table. The question is this new stuff going to fill a gap in capabilities or is it just going to do similar stuff to what collegiate wizards can already do?
Like that's the gamble - or one of them with the other being that it'd probably be quite hard to convince Damsels to support an expedition that has nothing to do with them. Like at least with the Colleges Mathilde can rely on her impressive reputation and the benefits she brought by working with the southern holds.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't think the expedition really needs more cavalry at this point, with all the wolves and demigriffs it already has. Maybe recruit a translator/guide/diplomat for dealing with the Kurgan tribes.
Improving the rather sketchy logistics of the operation would be good, too. To that end I could be sold on recruiting Panoramia. A Jade Mage with Fat of the Land solves the 'demigriffs need to eat their own weight in meat every month' problem, and the Fieldwardens boost the capabilities of the Rangers while bringing Halfling rations too. No time for training her, though, so it seems unlikely the thread will risk her.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
A small number of lens nodes on strategic points on three or four of the other mountains could do it, but:
Would dwarves be ok with more of their mountains getting zhuf towers stuck on them?
And this is more than one tower and the action we picked is a tower, not a set of them, so like... unless lense node construction were part of a MMAPP room project...
Would dwarves be ok with more of their mountains getting zhuf towers stuck on them?
And this is more than one tower and the action we picked is a tower, not a set of them, so like... unless lense node construction were part of a MMAPP room project...
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Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
It sounds like anything not obscured by something getting in the way, is visible to this theoretical tower. So to allow it to see those blind spots anyway just set up a number of additional Magic Telescope Towers in line of sight of the main one. Have them scout areas hidden from the main tower, then project said image for the main tower to pick up:
Illustration: Green = Main tower LOS, blue = Second tower exclusive LOS
Like I'm not advocating for this idea, but I think it'd work.
.... veteran caravan driver?
...hmm, what you'd need is a giant mirror above the tower...It sounds like anything not obscured by something getting in the way, is visible to this theoretical tower. So to allow it to see those blind spots anyway just set up a number of additional Magic Telescope Towers in line of sight of the main one. Have them scout areas hidden from the main tower, then project said image for the main tower to pick up:
Illustration: Green = Main tower LOS, blue = Second tower exclusive LOS
Like I'm not advocating for this idea, but I think it'd work.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
A magic mirror above the secondaries yes. yes.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
The problem with attempting to recruit anyone else is that we might roll too badly or too well and get a pile of manpower that the steam-wagons are frankly incapable of supporting. We're already pushing my most generous estimates of the caravan's cargo capacity. I'm expecting us to have to make some really hard decisions about who gets to eat the clean food and who has to forage in the chaos wastes. Let's not make it worse.
No tricking the thread to deploying experimental Skaven superweapons. That omitting and obfuscating the hyphen was very sneaky-subtle though my Eshin-friend.
Damsels are very unlikely to be a burden like that, not least because as Ghyran casters they may be able to make food.
We know Damsels have some spells that Collegiate wizards simply can't replicate, so they do bring completely unique capabilities. They also do their magic in a different way, so may have different restrictions on what they can do in those circumstances. We also don't have any Jade wizards coming along, so the Damsels would certainly plug that gap.
As previously discussed, the Bretonnian Duchy where the Damsels' boss lives has decided to support the dwarves in the hopes of getting in their good books in the wake of Belegar's sword giving ceremony. As a result we have good reason to believe it won't be as hard as you're suggesting.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Remember the time Lahmians had us and our master over the barrel? Good times.
From my understanding Grey Collage simply does not have man power to be as omniscient as thread thinks so I would not be surprised if any redundancies we build in to its existing networks were to be a welcome addition.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
At the end of the day, there are what 50 magisters? Hardly enough to man an empire.
We're more likely to get in their way, to be honest, and we get back to the old joke about a five member terrorist cell having been infiltrated by five different spy agencies and not having any actual terrorists in.
We should be focusing our efforts where we have unique leverage, not duplicating what other Grey Wizards are fully capable of doing. For example, having the EIC expand into the trans-Dark Land caravan routes, to get better intelligence on emergent threats from the east.
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A Meeting in the Western Steppes
[*] Make contact with the Kurgan
In the end, you decide that there's no reason not to try to make contact with the locals. You figure that any tribes this close to the Chaos Wastes that react violently to wandering magical strangers won't have survived long, and you have the mobility to avoid any unfavourable meetings. The people of the Steppe are rightfully known for their prowess in the saddle, but no horse of flesh and blood can match one of shadow.
The process of making contact is not difficult. You simply ride until you spot a large herd of sheep and halt your Shadowsteed atop a hill overlooking them. Despite how empty the plains around you look, no domesticated herd is ownerless in the Steppes, and somewhere nearby a watcher has a puzzle on their hands. You're clearly not attempting to steal any of the herd, but neither are you moving along, and your horse and your dress makes you impossible to place in any mundane category. The only sensible conclusion is to send word back to the tribe and make it someone else's problem.
As the time passes, you refresh your memory with one of the books on the Kurgan you'd brought with you while waiting for them to present themselves. Eventually, riding in clear view and at a speed that gives you plenty of time to notice and react to them, a party of Kurgan are approaching, all visibly carrying bows that are currently unnocked. 'We don't offer violence, but it is an option' is a solid foundation to build first contact on.
[Rolling...]
At the head of the band is a man who looks slightly younger than yourself, dressed in leathers and wearing multiple necklaces of fangs and claws. Your books say there's no one mark of a Shaman as cultural practices vary widely across the Steppes, but that he thrums with the power of Ghur seems a solid indication to you. The band pauses at the next hilltop to consider you and exchange words, and then the Shaman approaches further. You tuck your book away and grip your staff in the same way that the watchers are gripping their bows - not quite ready to use, but not far from it either. He calls out what you hope to be a greeting in a language that sounds very slightly like Kislevarin, then again in another that makes the Winds ripple unpleasantly, and then a third time, in guttural almost-Khazalid, "blood or tea, stranger?"
That he speaks the Chaos Dwarf equivalent of Khazalid makes things a great deal easier. "Today, tea," is your response, and one of only two acceptable answers. Your books tell you that the Cathayan drink is even more popular amongst the Kurgan than it is in Altdorf cafes, and is a central part of the culture of the tribes who live close enough to the trade road to steal or buy it. You carefully dismount as the Shaman does the same; the Shaman makes a show of removing the knife from his hip and placing it in a saddlebag. You normally carry no knife as you can summon them as needed, but you'd brought one for this purpose, and leave yours next to your horse as the Shadowsteed can only carry a rider, not cargo. He approaches cautiously, and holds out a flask to you; you wet your finger in it and flick some northwards before taking a sip and suppressing your grimace. If tea would be inconvenient, a guest will be offered alcohol, and for most of the Kurgan, the alcohol is fermented horse milk.
Your host seems to relax slightly. "I am a Shaman of the Dolgan Tribes. I serve the Untamed of the Eight."
"I am a Shaman of the Mountain Ring Clans. I serve the Shadowed of the Eight. I travel from the west and will travel to the south."
He nods. "You are far from the salt-water," he observes. "Your business must be important for you to travel so far."
You nod but don't elaborate, happy to leave him with the misconception that you're from Norsca. "Can you tell me of the neighbouring tribes?"
He nods. "You came through the mountains? The proud Kul are to the north of the mountains, their claim stretches all the way to the Blessed Lands. Dolgan land stretches to the Tea Road. Between Tea Road and Dwarf-Land is the Iron Wolf Tribes, who serve an Old One. East are the Kvelliges and Khazags, and north are the Yusak, who have lost favour with the Four and seek lands further from them."
You nod thoughtfully, checking that against your mental map of the Eastern Steppes. It sounds like the Expedition's route will go through Dolgan and then Yusak territory, and that Karag Dum itself would be about at the border between Yusak and Kul, and the Yusak are currently vulnerable, while the Kul... you don't know their current state, but about 180 years ago their leader Asavar united the Kurgans and was anointed as Everchosen, sparking the Great War Against Chaos. Your books had some information on the Dolgans, describing a people on the edge between civilization and barbarism to the extent that some served Kislev as mercenaries - but that described a people between Kislev and Norsca, far from here. How similar are these Dolgans to the ones your books spoke of?
The information this Shaman has given you out of simple courtesy is already valuable, but if you could reach an accord with his people, even greater things could come of it. An agreement to allow passage would make safe what could otherwise be a very dangerous leg of the journey. If they would sell livestock to the steam-wagons, supply concerns would vanish. If they would take advantage of the weakened Yusak at the right time, the entire passage from the Dark Lands to the Chaos Wastes would be laid open, and it's likely all that would take is the Dolgan being prepared to take advantage of the Yusak being distracted by the steam-wagons and the many knights passing through their territory. Or if they could even be talked into selling military aid to the Expedition... Dolgan mercenaries would be able to live off the land and wouldn't need transporting all the way from Praag, they'd be in their element for any conflict that might need them, and they might help in dealing with any other Kurgan that might present an obstacle to the Expedition.
Or on the other hand, it might be best to leave well enough alone. Any deal would likely involve precious metals changing hands, and paying the servants of Chaos is unlikely to sit well with many - though you should be able to keep the details concealed from most. And though you'd do your best to not give away details that would leave the Expedition vulnerable to betrayal, could any deception serve if the Plotter might be involved? Then again, if the Plotter's attention does turn this way, it's very possible that no amount of secrecy would serve...
If an accord is to be reached, it should be now. The Dolgans are more likely to be amenable to a deal now than when they have giant metal behemoths on wheels show up on their lands. You're not sure whether they'd see the steam-wagons as as a threat, as prey, or as loot, but they'd probably not see them as a potential trade partner.
[ ] Only seek passage for the Expedition
[ ] Seek passage and supplies for the Expedition
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and for the Dolgan to attack the Yusak
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and to purchase the service of Dolgan mercenaries
[ ] Do not seek any accord with the Dolgans
[ ] Seek to make contact with the Yusak instead
[ ] Other (write in)
- There will be a two hour moratorium.
- If Mathilde seeks to make contact with the Yusak, she can't safely fly into Yusak territory, so would have to ride. This means the Dolgan would know she went out of her way to speak to the Yusak.
This represents Mathilde's estimation instead of being necessarily accurate. For reference, these six territories make up an area about half the size of the Empire.
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Safe passage seems like a good bet, it is a minimal accord that does not require us interacting with the tribe, quite the opposite. Anything more is a no go IMO.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I like the idea of buying passage at least. Besides being helpful it is also just polite. It could also be an inroad to a future deal further down the line on the return journey with the first deal goes well. Does Mathilde think that something like a small inital deal to test the waters followed by a more encompassing one later when we have more knowledge about Karak Dum would work @BoneyM?
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
What was it the Ice Witches wanted us to grab, again? I don't suppose we could make inquiries into which tribe possesses it?
- Location
- Earth
[ ] Do not seek any accord with the Dolgans
Get while the going is good.
Neither dwarves nor our Taal-Order would like to deal with them.
Our Ice Witch also didn't like the Kurgans.
Seeking passage tells them that someone is seeking passage. I'd rather not.
Get while the going is good.
Neither dwarves nor our Taal-Order would like to deal with them.
Our Ice Witch also didn't like the Kurgans.
Seeking passage tells them that someone is seeking passage. I'd rather not.
They did say some Tribe around Dum.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They are going to know that someone is there when the steam wagons arrive. If they attack then that is a fight we could have avoided.
There's a lot of unpredictable variables between now and then, including the giant metal behemoths rolling around the place. It might not be impossible to sort out a deal later, but it could very easily turn out to be trickier than it would be to nail one down right now.
They said near Dum, so it'd be Kul or Yusak. Mathilde suspects that if it was the weak, vulnerable, out-of-favour tribe, the Ice Witches wouldn't have been vague about it.
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Can we try to do both of these:
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and for the Dolgan to attack the Yusak
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and to purchase the service of Dolgan mercenaries
I wonder if we can persuade Asarnil and Deathfang to wear Doppleganger items and come and provide air support in a war between the Dolgan and the Yusak, as s already hired. We might also want to join the war to keep an eye on them, and maybe stealthily assassinate anyone who looks like they might grow into a future threat.
They don't need to know who we're seeking passage for until much later.
Also, we might want to trade favours rather than gold, offering to soften up the Yusak instead, for example.
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and for the Dolgan to attack the Yusak
[ ] Seek passage, supplies, and to purchase the service of Dolgan mercenaries
I wonder if we can persuade Asarnil and Deathfang to wear Doppleganger items and come and provide air support in a war between the Dolgan and the Yusak, as s already hired. We might also want to join the war to keep an eye on them, and maybe stealthily assassinate anyone who looks like they might grow into a future threat.
They don't need to know who we're seeking passage for until much later.
Also, we might want to trade favours rather than gold, offering to soften up the Yusak instead, for example.
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
If we don't go for an accord, I'd propose as a write-in to make an exchange of minor gifts. May as well get a souvenir for the penthouse.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Would the Ice Witches have known about that, though? From the way this Shaman spoke about it, it seemed their loss of favour with Chaos is something of a recent development.
Thinking about that must look rather odd. Because of her Mastery Mathilde 'rides' embedded into her shadowsteed as if half centaur. If she leaves the steed intact (rather than dismissing it and floating down as it dissipates) then she is pulling herself out of it rather than off of it.
…?
Moderately useful.
Ha! No.
No agreement with chaos barbarians can be trusted. To say nothing of how our various allies would react to such dealings.