Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

deathofrats0808 · Sep 18, 2020

kingreaper said:
More likely IMO, from currently being involved in writing a large RPG book: It was written by multiple people, and the compiler/publisher didn't notice the "don't play vampires" note in one author's chapter blatantly contradicting the chapter another author had written on how to play vampires.

It has two authors. Steve Darlington and Jody Macgregor. None of the 2nd Edition WFRP books have huge teams, they're from a time when Warhammer was a relatively unknown property, and were published by a company that employs a dozen people.

Briefvoice · Sep 18, 2020

Pardon, but I don't see the point in assassinating Rotfang. Some other ork would just take his place.

Assassination only makes sense if it's the prelude to making a move against the Red Fangs.

LilyWitch · Sep 18, 2020

Briefvoice said:
Pardon, but I don't see the point in assassinating Rotfang. Some other ork would just take his place.

Assassination only makes sense if it's the prelude to making a move against the Red Fangs.

Rotfang is a canon char that caused *a lot* of damage to Karak Azul in the OTL. He is probably better then the random generated warboss that would replace him. Taking him out is deff on my list but maybe not for next turn.

Jyn Ryvia · Sep 18, 2020

SuperSonicSound said:
Any reason other than the completionist itch and the comment from lightlan?

1: completionist itch
2: Cloak Activity is useful, you can do stuff like drink tea with someone as you look through their desk for blackmail.
3: Shadow of Death is actually useful in ways that Dread Aspect is not, despite what some people keep insisting. (e.g interrogation or getting someone to back the fuck down without fighting) dread aspect triggers the fight or flight response, so is no good for the times you need them to still be thinking straight while scaring them.
4: magic Rep, even if there is no mechanical bonus, in narrative the other wizards will still know that mathy mastered the spellbook.

Lupercal said:
Rotfang is a canon char that caused *a lot* of damage to Karak Azul in the OTL. He is probably better then the random generated warboss that would replace him. Taking him out is deff on my list but maybe not for next turn.

that's very much using meta-knowledge tho.

as far as mathy knows he is just a random warboss.

SuperSonicSound · Sep 18, 2020

Jyn Ryvia said:
that's very much using meta-knowledge tho.

as far as mathy knows he is just a random warboss.

Nah, we know he isn't because he managed to become warboss quickly and with little infighting, that means he's either got a very loyal and strong cadre of orcs supporting him or he's powerful as heck and no one else could stand up to him other than birdmuncha the previous warboss.

LightLan · Sep 18, 2020

picklepikkl said:
I mentioned using an overwork in my post; I think it's likely to be a point of fierce argument next turn. I do not think using our final overwork is a good idea or likely to get traction; it's literally four times as bad as the second overwork.

the real problem with overwork is, should the expedition for whatever reason run long, we'll be hit with a -10 on all rolls in the Chaos Wastes.
Considering that this would only happen if something went wrong, it'd make a bad situation worse.
I'd rather avoid that.

picklepikkl · Sep 18, 2020

SuperSonicSound said:
Nah, we know he isn't because he managed to become warboss quickly and with little infighting

Er, when did we learn that?

BoneyM said:
"Since we now know for sure that Birdmuncha is dead, I've had my Rangers prodding Karak Drazh to get the name of their new Warboss. Apparently they now answer to Warboss Gorfang the Hungry, which according to captured Skaven intelligence," he pauses as he grimaces at the thought, "was the Big Boss in charge of the Red Fang's Underway front before the Battle of the Caldera."

It's been nearly four years since Waaagh Birdmuncha. That might count as "quickly" (I don't know how quickly greenskins turn over Warbosses in general), but we didn't hear anything about how much infighting there was or was not.

Jyn Ryvia said:
1: completionist itch
2: Cloak Activity is useful, you can do stuff like drink tea with someone as you look through their desk for blackmail.
3: Shadow of Death is actually useful in ways that Dread Aspect is not, despite what some people keep insisting. (e.g interrogation or getting someone to back the fuck down without fighting) dread aspect triggers the fight or flight response, so is no good for the times you need them to still be thinking straight while scaring them.
4: magic Rep, even if there is no mechanical bonus, in narrative the other wizards will still know that mathy mastered the spellbook.

5. Learning the Polysevirric version of the MAP is smart from the perspective of doing collaborative enchanting projects with it and opens up the possibility of gaining a Mastery, which we cannot do with our own version of the spell.

LightLan · Sep 18, 2020

And now for a different point of discussion:

BoneyM said:
[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (specify who)

What do we have available here?
Cult of Sigmar (problematic, they hate getting spied upon and they are keeping an eye on getting spied upon)
Other Merchants (Not really all that juicy, unless they happen to sell to Vampires. Which I doubt given what Roswita did to the last ones)
Stirland Watch (Why would we want to play spy games with Roswita?)
Some Village in Sylvania? (Does the EIC have offices inside Drakenhof, etc?)

Briefvoice · Sep 18, 2020

Speaking of votes, we voted to expand our tower.

[ ] [TOWER] Far Sight
Filled to the brim with refraction cantrips, this tower would allow anyone in it to see in detail any point within line of sight. 2 College Favours.
[ ] [TOWER] Protection (COLOUR)
Build a tower to magically reinforce or protect the others. Specify wind. 5 College favours.
[ ] [TOWER] Anti-Air (COLOUR)
Build a tower to magically attack any airborne enemies. Specify wind. 5 College favours.
[ ] [TOWER] Smoke and Mirrors
Build a tower to enable longer-range teleportation. Will require an action to set up, exact implementation will be determined by rolls and choices with that action.

College Reputation: 163
College Favours: 8

I'm opposed to taking either of the "5 College Favor" options considering that we're down to an 8 favor buffer, and this turn's paper might well be another "1 CF, net wash with the Hochlander's cost" result.

Smoke and Mirrors, though, would require an AP to set up, something that will be in short supply next turn. (Are we required to spend the AP immediately, or will the tower sit there half-completed until we find the time?)

picklepikkl · Sep 18, 2020

LightLan said:
What do we have available here?
Cult of Sigmar (problematic, they hate getting spied upon and they are keeping an eye on getting spied upon)
Other Merchants (Not really all that juicy, unless they happen to sell to Vampires. Which I doubt given what Roswita did to the last ones)
Stirland Watch (Why would we want to play spy games with Roswita?)
Some Village in Sylvania? (Does the EIC have offices inside Drakenhof, etc?)

The best idea I've seen floated for that is this:

BoneyM said:
The only other oddity is reports from Talabecland that there's been a fairly significant increase in the worship of Karnos, the local God of the Hunt. Unusual, but as he's not proscribed and seems relatively harmless, it's probably not anything to worry about.

There have been three separate hints dangled by Boney about Elvish-Imperial god crossover:

The whole "Eonir worshiping Ulric" thing
This
Gehenna mentioning the Anath Raema cult during Duckling Club when we showed off our staff

BoneyM said:
You peer at the Rune on your staff she's pointing at. "Eltharin... oh, that would be Anath Raema in Her aspect of the Stalker. Elven Goddess, like Kurnous but crankier, as I understand it."

"Huh." She frowns thoughtfully. "Bunch of things just made sense. I stamped out a Cult of Styriss on Ostermark a while back that was hitting way above its weight, this was one of the symbols they had on their shrines."

"Write a letter to the Taalites about it," you suggest. "I've got a contact or two that could pass it on for you. The major Cults take a dim view of the nastier Elven Gods trying to slip into the Old World."

"Will do. Got a scar that aches when the weather changes that would very much like put another spoke in their wheel."

The EIC has a presence in Talabecland:

BoneyM said:
Moderate presence in interstate trade in Stirland, the Moot, and Talabecland.

So getting eyes on the Karnos-cult and making sure they aren't up to something Fucky seems like a smart play to do at some point.

Briefvoice said:
I'm opposed to taking either of the "5 College Favor" options considering that we're down to an 8 favor buffer, and this turn's paper might well be another "1 CF, net wash with the Hochlander's cost" result.

Smoke and Mirrors, though, would require an AP to set up, something that will be in short supply next turn. (Are we required to spend the AP immediately, or will the tower sit there half-completed until we find the time?)

That option was chosen with the intent of picking the Far Sight tower, which is only 2CF and seems likely to be useful for any future mapping project we do for K8P.

Jyn Ryvia · Sep 18, 2020

LightLan said:
And now for a different point of discussion:

What do we have available here?
Cult of Sigmar (problematic, they hate getting spied upon and they are keeping an eye on getting spied upon)
Other Merchants (Not really all that juicy, unless they happen to sell to Vampires. Which I doubt given what Roswita did to the last ones)
Stirland Watch (Why would we want to play spy games with Roswita?)
Some Village in Sylvania? (Does the EIC have offices inside Drakenhof, etc?)

I think the best place to start would the border princes.

1: near our place of work
2: an easy place to 'get our feet wet'
3: can influence the regain of we can get our agents into a few of the mini counsels
3:... probably not as many grey networks in the area, (filling in a network gap.)

deathofrats0808 · Sep 18, 2020

LightLan said:
the real problem with overwork is, should the expedition for whatever reason run long, we'll be hit with a -10 on all rolls in the Chaos Wastes.
Considering that this would only happen if something went wrong, it'd make a bad situation worse.
I'd rather avoid that.

Overwork as a mechanic is going to be weird for the Expedition anyway. Like, unless the overwork happens during the Expedition itself, either Mathilde should have time to recover from her exhaustion through the Expedition, or it should affect the Expedition. Mechanics and reality are never cleanly aligned alas.

Briefvoice · Sep 18, 2020

picklepikkl said:
That option was chosen with the intent of picking the Far Sight tower, which is only 2CF and seems likely to be useful for any future mapping project we do for K8P.

I don't really see how it would be useful for any future mapping project in a karak that already has plenty of gyrocopters to observe things from above and at any angle and at any height. I'm much more interested in "long range teleportation", though like I said the AP cost isn't great.

Redshirt Army · Sep 18, 2020

I don't really see "assassinate the Karag Drazh warboss" as metagaming, since I was campaigning for doing it well before we learned anything about who was in charge - keeping Karag Drazh constantly off-balance massively neuters the threat they pose to K8P and softens them up for a potential reclamation some decades down the line. I can't speak for Belegar, but in a hypothetical BelegarQuest I'd absolutely be campaigning to check on Drazh orc politics at least once a decade and send Mathilde to prune it if things are heading the wrong way.

That said, I don't see much urgency in doing it before the expedition. Right now I'm strongly leaning towards doimg a self-improvement action and joining the expedition early, with an extra overwork action to finish Fog Path or the armor if they need it. I don't think more recruiting is particularly valuable at this juncture.

SuperSonicSound · Sep 18, 2020

Briefvoice said:
I don't really see how it would be useful for any future mapping project in a karak that already has plenty of gyrocopters to observe things from above and at any angle and at any height. I'm much more interested in "long range teleportation", though like I said the AP cost isn't great.

Meh, might be a chance to work on windherder though.

@BoneyM
Any chance we could do that with this tower?

Alliterate · Sep 18, 2020

The EIC also has a presence in Stirland-Reikland trade, so could probably also start collecting information from Altdorf at least. E.g. Keep an eye on what the Grand Theogonist is publically worrying about or decrying now, instead of only hearing about it when Heidi mentions it on a social.

Rafin said:
@BoneyM That is fair. But does Mathilde still know what they are doing off screen? We are after all still spending a half-action on them in order to assist them with whatever they might be doing, right?

The reason I hoped to know as we went is specifically so the results of the Golds training isn't a series of mystery boxes we open at the end.
Take the Armour of Lead spell. I'm of the opinion that it's very useful non-Battlemagic near-substitute for MMM they should learn. Yes, one or both of them might learn it, but it's (presumably) dependant on the dice. If we knew for sure they didn't learn it the first 'do as you see fit' turn, then perhaps we'd have voted to make sure the second turn. However without that prior knowledge, you might be making a redundant instruction, incentivising another 'unsupervised' action.
A one-line update to the character sheet would have done me. At least we'd have had the information to make that decision.

Alratan · Sep 18, 2020

Redshirt Army said:
I don't really see "assassinate the Karag Drazh warboss" as metagaming, since I was campaigning for doing it well before we learned anything about who was in charge - keeping Karag Drazh constantly off-balance massively neuters the threat they pose to K8P and softens them up for a potential reclamation some decades down the line. I can't speak for Belegar, but in a hypothetical BelegarQuest I'd absolutely be campaigning to check on Drazh orc politics at least once a decade and send Mathilde to prune it if things are heading the wrong way.

That said, I don't see much urgency in doing it before the expedition. Right now I'm strongly leaning towards doimg a self-improvement action and joining the expedition early, with an extra overwork action to finish Fog Path or the armor if they need it. I don't think more recruiting is particularly valuable at this juncture.

The reason to do it now is because there's a fair chance Mathidle isn't coming back from the expedition.

Redshirt Army · Sep 18, 2020

Alliterate said:
The EIC also has a presence in Stirland-Reikland trade, so could probably also start collecting information from Altdorf at least. Keep an eye on what the Grand Theogonist is worrying about now, instead of only hearing about it when Heidi mentions it on a social.

That's sort of useful to Mathilde, but not particularly useful to the Grey Order as a whole, given that they've got eyes all over Altdorf. I'm not against getting an Altdorf presence on principle, but think it should be a lower priority than places where the Grey College has less existing reach.

Sir_Travelsalot · Sep 18, 2020

Redshirt Army said:
That's sort of useful to Mathilde, but not particularly useful to the Grey Order as a whole, given that they've got eyes all over Altdorf. I'm not against getting an Altdorf presence on principle, but think it should be a lower priority than places where the Grey College has less existing reach.

It could also be said it would give the Grey Order another channel of communication with us/K8P too, which is hardly a bad thing.

Jyn Ryvia · Sep 18, 2020

Border Princes: set up a spy network in the Border Princes.

Alratan said:
The reason to do it now is because there's a fair chance Mathidle isn't coming back from the expedition.

That is an argument that can be used for every other action.

Redshirt Army · Sep 18, 2020

Sir_Travelsalot said:
It could be argued it would give the Grey Order another channel of communication with us/K8P too, which is hardly a bad thing.

I don't see it? The EIC keeping an eye on Altdorf politics doesn't give the GC another channel, and I don't see any reason to believe the GC would have any trouble getting a message to Mathilde through existing channels anyway. You're gonna have to actually make that argument.

Alratan · Sep 18, 2020

Jyn Ryvia said:
That is an argument that can be used for every other action.

And other actions that make a permeant strategic difference to the future of K8Ps in our absence should also be considered.

However, those are a tiny fraction of the potential actions we can take, so no, not every other action.

Glau · Sep 18, 2020

Redshirt Army said:
"assassinate the Karag Drazh warboss"

I would laugh hysterically if we tried to shoehorn this in as a last action before the trip and Mathilde crit-failed and died. Not that' I'd be happy about it, but I would laugh: just too much of a poetic payoff to hubris.

That said, with the possibility of reclaiming another dwarvern waystone, I am in favor of clearing out the Black Crag. We wouldn't even have to populate it, really, with K8P right there to send patrols and keep things clear.

Oh! And random further thought: Now that Kragg can get his rune of brotherhood recharged, it would be cool if he struck it over every new class of Undumgi that got accepted into the ranks, to keep that not-quite-human cultural flavor going. Ideally you'd do classes of about a thousand or so to get full effects, and for the rest of the humans in the Karak it would be a nice reinforcement dose.

Briefvoice · Sep 18, 2020

Alliterate said:
The reason I hoped to know as we went is specifically so the results of the Golds training isn't a series of mystery boxes we open at the end.
Take the Armour of Lead spell. I'm of the opinion that it's very useful non-Battlemagic near-substitute for MMM they should learn. Yes, one or both of them might learn it, but it's (presumably) dependant on the dice. If we knew for sure they didn't learn it the first 'do as you see fit' turn, then perhaps we'd have voted to make sure the second turn. However without that prior knowledge, you might be making a redundant instruction, incentivising another 'unsupervised' action.
A one-line update to the character sheet would have done me. At least we'd have had the information to make that decision.

If we wanted to have them learn Armor of Lead then we can/could vote to have them learn Armor of Lead, and Armor of Lead won't be on the gacha roll for improvements. Boney has clearly said several times he's not even going to roll for them until it's time to open the mystery box and see what they learned. If that doesn't make you happy, you had several votes to campaign for putting "Armor of Lead" into the plans.

Redshirt Army · Sep 18, 2020

Glau said:
Now that Kragg can get his rune of brotherhood recharged

> Implying Kragg would actually use Thorek's invention after Thorek showed him up with it.

There's a decent chance that Kragg, specifically, still can't (won't) recharge his runes.

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

This isn't even my nerdiest form

This isn't even my nerdiest form

Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early

Cannon Fodder

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

Cannon Fodder

Never wakes up tired.

Cannon Fodder

Cannon Fodder