Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Doomed Wombat]

Nah, you wouldn't need a woven sock for Deathfang, just some dark spiky armor for Asarnil.

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And ask if Deathfang wants any super spicey peppers so he's either drooling molten spittle or constantly breathing fire

@BoneyM

1. Sorry, I'm looking back through the thread, apologies if I've missed that there's an action to find out since the answer in that case is "take it and find out"/you'll find out soon, but assuming these are not the case how is the expedition taking to Anarsil?

Since on the one hand elf and Karag Dum was meant to be the uber conservative hold, and the other old holds ain't exactly known for well...elf like regardless of affiliation with the Phoenix Throne.

However, Dragon Rider is always useful + he's got very strong public opinions against the throne and has worked with Dawi in the past combined with Dum also omnifocusing on chaos.

On the third hand Caledorian pride meet Dawi Pride.

mmm...its a pity he's probably too proud to try it, but I wonder if we could talk Anarsil into asking Deathfang to provide his flame to some runesmiths, since Dragon Fire is meant to be excellent for some runes.

 

[Boney]

And ask if Deathfang wants any super spicey peppers so he's either drooling molten spittle or constantly breathing fire

@BoneyM

1. Sorry, I'm looking back through the thread, apologies if I've missed that there's an action to find out since the answer in that case is "take it and find out"/you'll find out soon, but assuming these are not the case how is the expedition taking to Anarsil?

Since on the one hand elf and Karag Dum was meant to be the uber conservative hold, and the other old holds ain't exactly known for well...elf like regardless of affiliation with the Phoenix Throne.

However, Dragon Rider is always useful + he's got very strong public opinions against the throne and has worked with Dawi in the past combined with Dum also omnifocusing on chaos.

On the third hand Caledorian pride meet Dawi Pride.

mmm...its a pity he's probably too proud to try it, but I wonder if we could talk Anarsil into asking Deathfang to provide his flame to some runesmiths, since Dragon Fire is meant to be excellent for some runes.

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They're not, yet. He's staying in Ostermark until it's time to set off. Karak Kadrin makes him uncomfortable because the Slayers keep eyeballing his dragon buddy.

 

[Dark as Silver]

I'm not simulating the careers and accomplishments of the entire Grey College.

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Not the entire Grey College... just the ones who are alive.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

They're not, yet. He's staying in Ostermark until it's time to set off. Karak Kadrin makes him uncomfortable because the Slayers keep eyeballing his dragon buddy.

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Oh yeah, thought that was just for that year. In that case different questions

1. Assuming we did a deep enough dive into his mercenary past (as well as writing his biography) to be confident we could hire him for helping the Dawi out without it instantly going wrong what has his past contracts with the dawi/interactions with them been?
2. Similarly I assume we told the expedition leaders that we hired him since dropping a dragon on their heads without telling maybe a powermove, but is also kinda...lets go with rude. What were their reactions to being told "air support acquired...also dragon support."

 

[Boney]

Oh yeah, thought that was just for that year. In that case different questions

1. Assuming we did a deep enough dive into his mercenary past (as well as writing his biography) to be confident we could hire him for helping the Dawi out without it instantly going wrong what has his past contracts with the dawi/interactions with them been?

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He's worked for them before. The details of it might come up in a future update.

2. Similarly I assume we told the expedition leaders that we hired him since dropping a dragon on their heads without telling maybe a powermove, but is also kinda...lets go with rude. What were their reactions to being told "air support acquired...also dragon support."

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Grumbling.

 

[lavanderjasmine]

I have awful idea, what if shamans of sun and moons are praying to Princes Celestia, Princes Luna and Nightmare Moon.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

He's worked for them before. The details of it might come up in a future update.



Grumbling.

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Both are good, just wanted to make sure they didn't immediately try to shoot one another.

 

[Boney]

I have awful idea, what if shamans of sun and moons are praying to Princes Celestia, Princes Luna and Nightmare Moon.

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Lord Zedd, Rita Repulsa, and the Teletubbies sun baby.

 

[Godwinson]

the Teletubbies sun baby.

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*shudders*

Truly, this is a dark world.

 

[Angelform]

The exact details of their take on magical theory aren't the sort of thing they share freely with outsiders.

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We should kidnap recruit someone to interrogate aid in our academic investigation. Qrech could do with a room-mate.

I have awful idea, what if shamans of sun and moons are praying to Princes Celestia, Princes Luna and Nightmare Moon.

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Then we may get a pegasus after all. Just a rather small one.

Lord Zedd, Rita Repulsa, and the Teletubbies sun baby.

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Then Wolf may get to be a Big Boy after all. If only intermittently.


On a more serious note: Assuming we have a free slot to spend on a last Recruitment action (which will likely depend on how the spell research goes) we will likely try for Damsels. However that is only half the AP, what do we want for the other half on? My first thought is 'Damsels + Pan and Halflings' as it pushes the cosmopolitan theme we are going for.

 

[Alratan]

Their migration was prompted because the Ancient Widow made them a better offer. I find it a little bit suspicious that their story is 'everything was cool, we were tight with our bear god, then chaos came and we resisted it, yada yada yada, Ancient Widow and Kislev'. That yada covers six millennia. It's a hell of a yada.

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There are some interesting mentions of the Sycthians, the ancestors of both the gospodars and kurgan, who built the ruined cities you can find in the steppes and southern chaos Wastes.

Ulric totally was a random wolf spirit before, wasn't he?

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The Empire apparently has records dating back to the period before the Cult of Ulric beat up the Cult of Lupus and stole their wolf iconography as part of assimilating his faithful. Ulric was originally just a warrior god of fire overcoming winter.

On a more serious note: Assuming we have a free slot to spend on a last Recruitment action (which will likely depend on how the spell research goes) we will likely try for Damsels. However that is only half the AP, what do we want for the other half on? My first thought is 'Damsels + Pan and Halflings' as it pushes the cosmopolitan theme we are going for.

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Bad idea. With Mathilde gone the Fieldwardens are more needed in K8Ps than ever. Panoramia also has a job that she's paid to do in K8Ps.

I'd be tempted to try to recruit some priests of Shallya, actually. We have lots of humans who will need healing. That, or, to bring in some Tileans, see if the Myrmidians are interested.

 

[Ekzentric Lohner]

Meanwhile in Kurgan Nomad Tribe Quest:

> So, who do we think Foreign Shadow Shaman works for? Probably not our neighbors, or she'd already know this stuff. Where in the mountains is there a "Mountain Ring" that clans could be living in?
> Is there a Chaos presence in Karak Eight Peaks around this time in canon? There should be Skaven and Greenskins, maybe some Chaos Dwarves.
> What if it's one of those College Mages from the Empire?
> Nah, they wouldn't deal with us, and even if they did why would a College Mage wear a looted Witch Hunter hat?

Later:

> Okay, so we can see a bunch of wolf riders and monster riders and some big war machines in the distance. That means Hobgoblins and Chaos Dwarves, right?
> Huh, maybe "Mountain Ring" was Karak Eight Peaks - a team up with some human clans might have been necessary for the Chaos Dwarves to take that clusterfuck. I guess they're after that one Dwarf hold up North in the Kul/Yusak border now.
> Are we sure this isn't Empire Knights and regular Dwarves?
> The Shadow Shaman who showed up to negotiate passage was wearing a looted witch hunter hat. They've obviously fought Order forces, they can't be part of them.

Shortly after that:

> Okay, so it was humans riding the wolves and monsters, they're looking at us funny, and there's a notable lack of daemons in the war machines. And the only magic-users are the humans in colored robes. And maybe the elf. Who's wearing notably not-spiky armor and riding a a dragon that isn't a Black Dragon.
> Fuck.
> "Can't be Order dudes" my ass.
> Look, just smile, nod, and sell them the sheep. We've got our fighters positioned for raiding the Yusak, it doesn't matter who the guys T-posing on them actually want to score points with as long as they're distracted, okay?

 

[Angelform]

Bad idea. With Mathilde gone the Fieldwardens are more needed in K8Ps than ever. Panoramia also has a job that she's paid to do in K8Ps.

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Fair point on Pan but I don't get what you mean about the Fieldwardens. K8P's overland scouting is gyrocopters and rangers. The underground scouting is miners and rangers.
Neither Mathilde nor (to the best of our knowledge) the Fieldwardens are actually employed as part of the standard defences.

I'd be tempted to try to recruit some priests of Shallya, actually. We have lots of humans who will need healing. That, or, to bring in some Tileans, see if the Myrmidians are interested.

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I would sooner go to the Jade College if we need healing. Shallya priests tend to be both underpowered and anti-authoritarian.

 

[Rafin]

I'm not simulating the careers and accomplishments of the entire Grey College.

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Of course not. But rolling once every decade or so to see if some interesting cantrip or niche spell gets added to the list could be an option. Either that or we join as rare members of a prestigious and exceptional club alongside the likes of Melkoth if we manage to teach Fog Path to someone after we manage to complete the spell, which would probably make it easier if you want to preserve the limited spell lists.

Though maybe I started this discussion prematurely. We haven't actually completed our first full and serious spell. Even if our two cantrips are exceptionally useful ones, they are still cantrips. Maybe there's many more like these, just dumber or at least not worth teaching to anyone who isn't somehow specialized.

That said, our toolless enchantment cantrip collection is also hella useful and wasn't on some list either. Maybe the problem is that there is actually a failure of updating the standardized curriculum? I mean even the most niche replicatable spell that doesn't need to be classified and kept secret should be valuable enough to be put on some official list in the Grey College library and be taught by at least one attending professor.

 

[Alratan]

Fair point on Pan but I don't get what you mean about the Fieldwardens. K8P's overland scouting is gyrocopters and rangers. The underground scouting is miners and rangers.
Neither Mathilde nor (to the best of our knowledge) the Fieldwardens are actually employed as part of the standard defences.

I would sooner go to the Jade College if we need healing. Shallya priests tend to be both underpowered and anti-authoritarian.

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The Fieldwardens have their own capabilities that the Rangers don't duplicate. For example, I wouldn't expect the Rangers to be able to do much to defend against Marienberg agents trying to mess around, but I'd expect that the Fieldwardens would. The Fieldwardens are also the internal police of the halfling community, from what I can tell, settling disputes and the like.

The headquarters of the Shallyan Cult is in Couronne, in Bretonnia. They're very unlikely to be institutionally anti-authoritarian. They're also not dependent on the Winds, which might be a bit unreliable or dangerous in the far north.

 

[Angelform]

The Fieldwardens have their own capabilities that the Rangers don't duplicate. For example, I wouldn't expect the Rangers to be able to do much to defend against Marienberg agents trying to mess around, but I'd expect that the Fieldwardens would. The Fieldwardens are also the internal police of the halfling community, from what I can tell, settling disputes and the like.

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Marienberg… how? K8P is on the outer edge of civilisation. The only secured access is through a tunnel that ends in an Ulrican fortress, which is itself only reached by a river held by the Barak Var navy. All the trade is either EIC or caravans on the silk road. Even if they cared about K8P there isn't really a viable avenue for Marienberg to mess around.

I wasn't planning to bring all the Fieldwardens, any more than we are bringing all the wolf boys.

The headquarters of the Shallyan Cult is in Couronne, in Bretonnia. They're very unlikely to be institutionally anti-authoritarian. They're also not dependent on the Winds, which might be a bit unreliable or dangerous in the far north.

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Anti-authoritarian as in 'refuse to take orders or instructions' rather than 'trying to destabilise authority'. In the middle of civilised lands that is fine. On an expedition to the boarders of hell it is very much not. More critically it means they are much less likely to want to come at all.

Citation needed on them not being subject to local magicalogical conditions. Kasmir was.

 

[kingreaper]

That said, our toolless enchantment cantrip collection is also hella useful and wasn't on some list either. Maybe the problem is that there is actually a failure of updating the standardized curriculum? I mean even the most niche replicatable spell that doesn't need to be classified and kept secret should be valuable enough to be put on some official list in the Grey College library and be taught by at least one attending professor.

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I feel like there should probably be multiple levels of spell-crafting:

1) I know how to do it in my paradigm, and could probably teach my own apprentice, my master or maybe another apprentice of my master.
2) I have a good understanding of how it works, and could probably work with someone personally in order to get it to work for them - but they'll have to work on it a while before they can pass it onward.
3) It's been formalized and can now be generally taught to anyone trained in the college by anyone whose learnt it.

Adding it to the curriculum would be a minimum of 3+it's valuable for the standard job of an imperial wizard (of that wind).

Cantrips only considered useful for enchanting aren't part of the standard job of an imperial wizard, because a lot of wizards don't learn to enchant at all. It might be better for the Empire if more of them did, because enchanted items are hella useful, but until the system changes to recognise that it won't happen (and, of course, it's possible that enchanting is the sort of thing that many wizards are simply incapable of learning).

Meanwhile Mathilde's MAP despite being a spell so simple that Mathilde invented it for herself in a matter of minutes, in a fit of annoyance at 2-D maps, is massively useful for military operations and may well have been incorporated, in part because the sheer simplicity of it made it easy to reach stage 3.

 

[DragonParadox]

A thought on the matter of Kurgan mono-Wind users and how they might differ from both Imperial magisters and the Druid precursors of the Jade Order, I think we might be forgetting that these are Chaos-touched mages. Just as Dhar does not necessarily mean Chaos (Hello there Nagash), so too Chaos does not necessarily mean Dhar.

Our friend Beast Boy was speaking Dark Tongue, presumably as a arcane lingua franka of Chaos worshipers. It's a good bet he uses either it or Arcane Daemonic in his casting. Ghur seen through the framework of that tongue is unlikely to be as helpful and prosocial as what the Amber Order uses, but it is no doubt powerful like all Chaos magics are powerful, how could they not be when the caster has 'friends on the other side'?

 

[Mopman43]

Maybe we should disguise the expedition.

*Mathilde waving around an exceptionally huge woven sock to use as a mock second head for Deathfang*
*Mathilde distributing Green Facepaint to the Knights of the White Wolf so they look like big Hobgoblins Wolfriders*
*Mathilde mounting black cardboard spikes and skulls on the steam wagons*
*Mathilde... Never mind, Demigryphs are mean enough already to count as creatures of Chaos.*

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Demigryphs are creatures of Chaos. As are Griffons, Hippogryphs, Pegasi, etc. All the mix-and-match critters started off as animals mutated by Chaos. They're not considered under Chaos' sway any more because they breed true- two Griffons mating will always get you a Griffon, with a creature still under the sway of Chaos, that's not a certainty.

 

[Rafin]

3) It's been formalized and can now be generally taught to anyone trained in the college by anyone whose learnt it.

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@BoneyM How many of the spells we know could we actually teach someone in a reasonable amount of time, assuming that the student is not some kind of genius or specifically Regimand?
Also, where would the toolless enchantment cantrips fit into kingreaper's paradigm?

Adding it to the curriculum would be a minimum of 3+it's valuable for the standard job of an imperial wizard (of that wind).

Cantrips only considered useful for enchanting aren't part of the standard job of an imperial wizard, because a lot of wizards don't learn to enchant at all. It might be better for the Empire if more of them did, because enchanted items are hella useful, but until the system changes to recognise that it won't happen (and, of course, it's possible that enchanting is the sort of thing that many wizards are simply incapable of learning).

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There already isn't a standard curriculum of spells that everyone is supposed to know. Journeymen seem to leave the Colleges (and cease to attend any and all forms of standard classes) knowing only a small amount of Wind-specific spells. Mathilde is actually rare even for a young Magister for having learned almost all available spells below battle magic.

The "standard list" is just a list of spells they can request either tutoring or self-learning material for. And such a list should also include less useful or more niche spells, provided that they are standardized enough that finding a tutor with free time is not an issue or, better yet, that it can literally be learned from a piece of paper with a little luck and brains.

Which by the way probably adds a "4)" to your list. Standardized enough to be learned without any additional tutoring. Maybe those are actually the only spells on the official list because Journeymen aren't allowed to come back home for classes.

@BoneyM Would "Try and get tutored in niche magic that might help with X" be a valid action? Rolls of course would include, in order, "does something usable exist", "how useful and how specific is it", "can someone teach it now or later", "what would it cost us", "attempt to learn", and "attempt to cast for the first time".

 

[ChronOblivion]

[X] Only seek passage for the Expedition

 

[veekie]

There already isn't a standard curriculum of spells that everyone is supposed to know. Journeymen seem to leave the Colleges (and cease to attend any and all forms of standard classes) knowing only a small amount of Wind-specific spells. Mathilde is actually rare even for a young Magister for having learned almost all available spells below battle magic.

The "standard list" is just a list of spells they can request either tutoring or self-learning material for. And such a list should also include less useful or more niche spells, provided that they are standardized enough that finding a tutor with free time is not an issue or, better yet, that it can literally be learned from a piece of paper with a little luck and brains.

Which by the way probably adds a "4)" to your list. Standardized enough to be learned without any additional tutoring. Maybe those are actually the only spells on the official list because Journeymen aren't allowed to come back home for classes.

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I'd note that said standard spells can be learned with written instructions alone. Thats kind of big considering how different everyone's experience of magic is.

 

[Alratan]

Marienberg… how? K8P is on the outer edge of civilisation. The only secured access is through a tunnel that ends in an Ulrican fortress, which is itself only reached by a river held by the Barak Var navy. All the trade is either EIC or caravans on the silk road. Even if they cared about K8P there isn't really a viable avenue for Marienberg to mess around.

I wasn't planning to bring all the Fieldwardens, any more than we are bringing all the wolf boys.

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An agent of Karak Eight Peaks just stole what's probably one of their most important strategic assets. There are plenty of ways that a Marienberg agent can cause trouble, from paying off the wolf riding goblin tribes of the Badlands to cause trouble, or messing around with the eastern trade caravans.

We're massively reducing Karak Eight Peak's intrigue capabilities by taking Mathilde away, and we shouldn't double down on that

I'd note that said standard spells can be learned with written instructions alone. Thats kind of big considering how different everyone's experience of magic is.

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And can be cast by rote without actually understanding the language that defines the spell.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Meanwhile in Kurgan Nomad Tribe Quest:

> So, who do we think Foreign Shadow Shaman works for? Probably not our neighbors, or she'd already know this stuff. Where in the mountains is there a "Mountain Ring" that clans could be living in?
> Is there a Chaos presence in Karak Eight Peaks around this time in canon? There should be Skaven and Greenskins, maybe some Chaos Dwarves.
> What if it's one of those College Mages from the Empire?
> Nah, they wouldn't deal with us, and even if they did why would a College Mage wear a looted Witch Hunter hat?

Later:

> Okay, so we can see a bunch of wolf riders and monster riders and some big war machines in the distance. That means Hobgoblins and Chaos Dwarves, right?
> Huh, maybe "Mountain Ring" was Karak Eight Peaks - a team up with some human clans might have been necessary for the Chaos Dwarves to take that clusterfuck. I guess they're after that one Dwarf hold up North in the Kul/Yusak border now.
> Are we sure this isn't Empire Knights and regular Dwarves?
> The Shadow Shaman who showed up to negotiate passage was wearing a looted witch hunter hat. They've obviously fought Order forces, they can't be part of them.

Shortly after that:

> Okay, so it was humans riding the wolves and monsters, they're looking at us funny, and there's a notable lack of daemons in the war machines. And the only magic-users are the humans in colored robes. And maybe the elf. Who's wearing notably not-spiky armor and riding a a dragon that isn't a Black Dragon.
> Fuck.
> "Can't be Order dudes" my ass.
> Look, just smile, nod, and sell them the sheep. We've got our fighters positioned for raiding the Yusak, it doesn't matter who the guys T-posing on them actually want to score points with as long as they're distracted, okay?

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> MoneyB? whats with the Hat? that makes no sense lore-wise and completely throw off the thread!
> belonged to a former love interest, not my fault you all fell for the red-herring and so didn't do any of the 6 investigation action.

 

[Valmond]

There is such a limited amount of spells because nobody has time for that.
It's just one of those game abstractions, we should just pretend it is not there, or atleast stop pokng at it.