Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
We're being paid for being a Loremaster, not a wizard, so probably not.
As I recall, your rank does, actually, matter, but Belegar is already paying us as a Runelord equivalent because he believes we're worth it, the same as how Panoramia doesn't see the need to go for Magister because she's already being paid as one.
 
Basically the limitation on cannons on ships is that they are:
-Smaller, as larger cannons cannot be effectively maneuvered on board and the weight of both cannon and shot rapidly escalate with size. Remember most of them need to be pulled inside to reload, then shoved out to fire.
--Dwarf dreadnaughts as I understand it use turrets, which allows a larger cannon to be maneuvered. And with steam power they can move a lot more mass.

-Less powerful, as where a land artillery unit can be partly dug into the ground for support, and a fixed artillery unit can be far larger due to being mounted into stone and metal, a shipboard cannon is mounted on wood. Powerful recoil would break the wooden supports.
--Dwarf dreadnaughts have cannon mounted to metal brackets, which are dwarf grade metal and can handle a lot more recoil.

-Accuracy has to deal with the ship itself being an uneven surface that constantly moves. Powerful singular shots are not as useful.
--Dreadnaughts deal with this by being large enough that it actually IS semi-stable unless in extremely rough waters.

Essentially, dwarf dreadnaughts should be packing cannons equivalent to human light fixed emplacement artillery, and fired by better gunners. This would be considered wildly unrealistic by people familiar with wooden ships and ship to ship combat.
The Empire canonically has the Hellhammers, which are armed with very large cannons that just use the entire ship for support. Warhammer does not care for reality.

Also, the thing about wooden supports isn't quite true. You need space, but as long as you mount the guns on some form of wheeled carriage (which has been done for hundreds of years IRL) recoil won't break the ship, it'll just move the gun.

Dwarfen Dreadnoughts are probably not actually that large. They'll be more stable, but because they're heavier and roll less, not because of their size.

Their cannon meanwhile are probably about equivalent in size and power, although are of higher quality than human ones, which leaves them with better range and accuracy, but not more raw destructive power. And while turrets are fantastically useful, it's not because they allow larger gun mountings, it's because they allow maneuverable, protected guns, which aren't fixed into firing on one side of the ship.
 
@BoneyM, in WFRP, if you have a Best craftsmanship sword, you get +5 to WS while wielding it and if you have a Best craftsmanship gun, you get a +5 to BS while wielding it. I have to emphasise the wording: 'you get +5 WS when wielding the sword', not 'you get +5 to tests to wield the sword.' Obviously it meant the latter, but I think this is important because this wording is the same for Enchant Item: '+5 to characteristic of the wielder/bearer.'

So what I'm thinking is that Enchant Item doesn't necessarily have to interact with someone's brain meats to work. A sword under Enchant Item doesn't upload CQC information into the wielder's mind, it just makes the sword better to the point its superiority is represented by a WS bonus. For a Fellowship-enhancing circlet, it's not making the bearer more charismatic, what it's actually doing is being so pretty that it makes people happier. (This is a similar principle to carrying a puppy with you: the puppy doesn't make you more charismatic, but it nonetheless makes people like you more.)

If you were basing Enchant Item's brain meat effects in Divided Loyalties on its effects in WFRP, can you reconsider?
 
Last edited:
The Empire canonically has the Hellhammers, which are armed with very large cannons that just use the entire ship for support. Warhammer does not care for reality.

Also, the thing about wooden supports isn't quite true. You need space, but as long as you mount the guns on some form of wheeled carriage (which has been done for hundreds of years IRL) recoil won't break the ship, it'll just move the gun.

Dwarfen Dreadnoughts are probably not actually that large. They'll be more stable, but because they're heavier and roll less, not because of their size.

Their cannon meanwhile are probably about equivalent in size and power, although are of higher quality than human ones, which leaves them with better range and accuracy, but not more raw destructive power. And while turrets are fantastically useful, it's not because they allow larger gun mountings, it's because they allow maneuverable, protected guns, which aren't fixed into firing on one side of the ship.
While I don't own ManOWar, it does look like warhammer wiki in quoting it verbatim here.
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Dwarf Navy

The Dwarfs are masters of metal and technology, with steam engines installed on ships that make them independent of the wind for propulsion the dwarfs believe that they have conquered the ocean. Most dwarfholds do not have any ships, for obvious reasons. The exception is Barak Varr. Barak Varr...

The thing you are describing is an ironclad. Not a dreadnought. A dreadnaught is an enormously large vessel with enormously large cannons.
 
While I don't own ManOWar, it does look like warhammer wiki in quoting it verbatim here.
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Dwarf Navy

The Dwarfs are masters of metal and technology, with steam engines installed on ships that make them independent of the wind for propulsion the dwarfs believe that they have conquered the ocean. Most dwarfholds do not have any ships, for obvious reasons. The exception is Barak Varr. Barak Varr...

The thing you are describing is an ironclad. Not a dreadnought. A dreadnaught is an enormously large vessel with enormously large cannons.
Not really? Like, it straight up says that Ironclads are the same size as ships of the line and that dreadnoughts are larger, which probably makes dreadnoughts out at the same size as most Men O' War. I believe they had smaller models than most though. And cannons larger than seen on land doesn't inherently mean "larger than everyone else's" because that was fairly common. Victory mostly mounted 32 pounders, while the Battle of Waterloo, fought some fifty years after Victory's launch, was mostly fought with 6 pounders for example.


Now that is just silly.
Well yes, but it's Warhammer. The setting isn't actually super duper serious.

How much ammo could that thing can have! I don't even...
3. In the game, it can fire three times total.
 
Even if that thing is made of bronze like the Empire's Greatcannons, how is that ship not sinking from the weight of the cannon and its ammo, let alone going to stop itself from imploding when it fires? It has to be a breechloader, otherwise reloading it would be completely impossible.
It's great because if you can get between two ships you can hit both at once, one with the shot and one with the cannon shooting out the back at the speed of sound.
Fun fact: firing it moves the entire ship backwards. No, that doesn't make sense.
 
Assuming it's a muzzle-loader, which given the Empire's tech-level it almost certainly is, how does it reload? It's mouth sticks out over the sea and if you tried to roll it back the rear of the cannon would crash into the stern of the ship. It looks like something an Orc would have designed.
 
Assuming it's a muzzle-loader, which given the Empire's tech-level it almost certainly is, how does it reload? It's mouth sticks out over the sea and if you tried to roll it back the rear of the cannon would crash into the stern of the ship. It looks like something an Orc would have designed.
Based on the side view give in the template, they very carefully roll it back so it's set against the aftcastle, reload it, and then roll it forwards again.
 
Voting closed, writing will begin after breakfast.

Officially the ten wealthiest at any given time, or more of an unofficial chicken/egg type of thing where being a Directorate House helps accumulate wealth and being wealthy allows you to exert political pressure?

The exact process for how that is determined is labyrinthine enough to be manipulated, but in practice it's wealth that does the manipulating so it usually works out as the ten actually richest.

Wait. What happened to Marienburg/Westerlands before they bought their independence?

They ramped up their independence over time, and the cash-strapped Empire was happy to let them. They raised their own militia so the Imperial garrison could be moved elsewhere, took over the burden of maintenance and operation of the Second Fleet, and operated their own much more efficient excise service. This was all great for the Empire, except for how it put Marienburg in a position to buy their independence from You Know Who.

Huh? I haven't heard of that.

Skeggi, Swamp Town, Port Reaver, Cadavo, Santa Magritta. They do tend to have less success than the Elves did.

How does this interact with disguises? Like, if we set the coin to Protector for whatever reason, disguise ourselves for intrigue purposes and act to protect people ... do we get the Rep bonus or does the Disguise get the Rep bonus, assuming we don't reveal ourselves?

The disguise gets the rep bonus. It's very good at setting up alter egos.

Also, does this activate if we try to protect people but fail?

Yes, but 'she tried' isn't usually the stuff legends are made of, no matter how many people know it.

Or they'll lose to Bretonnia. It's a possibility.

Bretonnia has eyed them in the past, and in one case only a show of force from Ulthuan dissuaded them.

I remember reading here or somewhere that the Vampire Counts' equivalent of galleons and ironclads is a flying castle. Is that true? I can't find any lore supporting it.

A big ol' castle-ship does exist in the lore, but that was in Dreadfleet where just about every faction had something equivalent to it.

This is actually a pretty good idea - we wouldn't need to strongarm the Bretonnians or whoever into not exporting food to Marienburg if we just out bid them or bought up all the food before they could get to it. It'd obviously be super expensive due to Marienburg having loads of dosh to get into bidding wars with - but it's really a question of whether this is more expensive than trying to shift the Empire's trade over land to Barak Varr.

That just might end up being cheaper, too - it'd be much more treasure up front to keep outbidding Marienburg but jacking up food prices in Marienburg an order of magnitude or so this way would produce major freaking unrest in the city really darn quick. Not to mention putting a fair bit of hurt on the oligarchs wallets to burn through their reserves real fast, as not only would they be losing money due to an embargo but they'd have a massive drain on their treasury from trying to outbid Barak Varr.

@BoneyM would this sort of offensive economic warfare be a valid option for the dwarfs to pursue rather than the more defensive option of subsidizing the Empire's shift to overland trade?

They might be convinced to do that as part of a war, but not instead of. Dwarves don't really have shades of grey between war and peace.

The weird part about this is that the question Mathilde is being asked is "which of these statements is true" while the vote looks like it is asking the questers "which of these options do you recommend". Those are very different questions, with different answers.

This is the case. It's Mathilde's chance to put her fingers on the scale of international diplomacy, if she's so inclined.

Hey @BoneyM, do we know if Hashut exists? (I mean from an IC perspective.)

The Chaos Dwarves definitely seem to have a patron by that name, but Mathilde doesn't really know anything about them.

We do, 30 dwarf coins.

60. 57 after the tithe.

Does make me wonder, will we get a pay bump from Belegar if we become a Lord Magister? After all a Runelords time is worth more than a Master Runesmith.

Possibly. Going from Master to Grandmaster is an immense deal to Dwarves, but Mathilde is being treated more as a Mathilde than as a Wizard these days, and she's already a Grandmaster at being Mathilde.

@BoneyM, in WFRP, if you have a Best craftsmanship sword, you get +5 to WS while wielding it and if you have a Best craftsmanship gun, you get a +5 to BS while wielding it. I have to emphasise the wording: 'you get +5 WS when wielding the sword', not 'you get +5 to tests to wield the sword.' Obviously it meant the latter, but I think this is important because this wording is the same for Enchant Item: '+5 to characteristic of the wielder/bearer.'

So what I'm thinking is that Enchant Item doesn't necessarily have to interact with someone's brain meats to work. A sword under Enchant Item doesn't upload CQC information into the wielder's mind, it just makes the sword better to the point its superiority is represented by a WS bonus. For a Fellowship-enhancing circlet, it's not making the bearer more charismatic, what it's actually doing is being so pretty that it makes people happier. (This is a similar principle to carrying a puppy with you: the puppy doesn't make you more charismatic, but it nonetheless makes people like you more.)

If you were basing Enchant Item's brain meat effects in Divided Loyalties on its effects in WFRP, can you reconsider?

I consider the fluff much more heavily than the raw stats, and I've decided it flat doesn't make sense for that to work without touching the brainmeats for things like 'Wizard hat of +5 Wizarding' or 'spectacles of +5 nerding'. And I've already seen a horrifying amount of creativity with how conceptual Enchant could get, and that's without giving it a foot in the door. So there's a hard rule of 'no conceptual shenanigans with Enchant' because otherwise I'll be getting things like '+5 chair of being comfier while sitting on it so you can concentrate on writing papers better' and '+5 telescope of being able to aim spells better so they hit harder without technically touching the brainmeats' every page and consulting a long menu of edge cases every time Mathilde rolls a die. So for Mathilde's purposes, Enchant is only applicable for very straightforward effects like making a sword better at chopping - effects that can be explained entirely by an increase in quality of the item.

Not really? Like, it straight up says that Ironclads are the same size as ships of the line and that dreadnoughts are larger, which probably makes dreadnoughts out at the same size as most Men O' War.

While this is absolutely accurate for Warhammer, it infuriates me because historically, 'larger than a Ship of the Line' makes no sense. The only reason a ship couldn't serve in the Line is being too small or underarmed. Whereas in this time period, a Man-o'-War was... wildly inconsistent in what it meant, but it originally meant a combat ship built for speed, which almost always meant they were too small to serve in the Line.

(not a GM note, just a nerdrant)

As an aside, this often meant that the bigger ships were the most boring, because they'd stick with a fleet and see combat once in a blue moon, and were usually too slow to force combat. The most interesting ones were the ones small and nimble enough to go looking for trouble and then chase it down. I don't think there was ever a pirate ship IRL that would qualify as a Ship of the Line.
 
Last edited:
They ramped up their independence over time, and the cash-strapped Empire was happy to let them. They raised their own militia so the Imperial garrison could be moved elsewhere, took over the burden of maintenance and operation of the Second Fleet, and operated their own much more efficient excise service. This was all great for the Empire, except for how it put Marienburg in a position to buy their independence from You Know Who.
It was Magnus who started letting them doing this in the wake of the Great War, for context.
 
It's great because if you can get between two ships you can hit both at once, one with the shot and one with the cannon shooting out the back at the speed of sound.
That sounds like...
Fun fact: firing it moves the entire ship backwards. No, that doesn't make sense.
It buttrams them

...are we sure the captain isn't a burly green dude in purple?
Based on the side view give in the template, they very carefully roll it back so it's set against the aftcastle, reload it, and then roll it forwards again.
Where'd the ammo even go...you'd need a battering ram to pack it in...
 
Geography helped no doubt, hard to actually enforce anything given the terrain, and feudal states are notoriously poor at promoting trade over using it as a piggybank

Arguably it was the right call at the time, as Magnus was picking up the pieces of the Great War Against Chaos and the Time of the Three Emperors, and Marienburg taking care of itself instead of being in a state of surly rebellion against a newly-appointed Baron was a big help. It was under the reign of the Unfahigers that they took it further and gathered enough power to make a bid for independence.
 
Last edited:
@BoneyM, in thinking of Enchant Item'd item ideas, I realised a potential problem: clutter. You may not want to deal with a plethora of little things like an enhanced version of Grimm Burloksson's telescopic sight. Are you ok with whatever or do you want us to be sparing with these purchases?
 
Assuming it's a muzzle-loader, which given the Empire's tech-level it almost certainly is, how does it reload? It's mouth sticks out over the sea and if you tried to roll it back the rear of the cannon would crash into the stern of the ship. It looks like something an Orc would have designed.
There's another ship called the Hell-Anvil whose job is to load the thing. :V
There are 15 of them, at least some of them have to be, at the very least, Not Skaven.
Two of the seats are empty with "to the greatest-best" inscribed on them. The infighting on who gets what extra seat keeps the council deadlocked, keeping the tie-breaking Staadtholder the Horned Rat relevant.
 
Back
Top