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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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HanEmpire said:
I propose that once Mathilde becomes a Lord Magister, we use her resources to help make the Empire self-sufficient in terms of military supplies. Suffering existential crises whenever the burghers get pissy is a terrible state to be in. No more imports.
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We're pretty well off for a private citizen, but we're still one or two orders of magnitude off from being able to hire even a single top-flight mercenary company. Bankrolling Imperial military logistical self-sufficiency indefinitely (or the infrastructure to support it, really) is probably four or five orders of magnitude beyond that.
 
Ericwinter said:
Ah, okay then... still don't really need that much money. Or any, really, our existing sources of income are more than enough for our purposes, and they'll be growing exponentially soon anyways. Maybe use it for charity? The Shallyans could probably use a good chunk of gold...
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We actually do need that much money. Look at our book collection. There are a bunch of books that would've been useful and will be useful but players don't want to get them because it costs too much money for them. Stealing the Ten's wealth means we'll get all the books that are useful to us.

After getting all the useful books, though, charity sounds good.
 
Ericwinter said:
We should probably wait until we're a Lord Magister for that, or we might have trouble figuring out what to do with all the money.
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Nah, this is the one time we have an easy excuse for the money.

If Marienburg does the blockade despite us robbing them, and went peaceful ... we use Marienburgs money to help us and the Dawi not get damaged economically. If we didn't go peaceful, merc's, equipment, logistical stuff, all spent on Marienburgs dime.

Edit: this only works if we steal a true fortune, but that seems to be the case most people are assuming here?
 
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Andres110 said:
We actually do need that much money. Look at our book collection. There are a bunch of books that would've been useful and will be useful but players don't want to get them because it costs too much money for them. Stealing the Ten's wealth means we'll get all the books that are useful to us.

After getting all the useful books, though, charity sounds good.
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How much gold would it actually take to get all of said books? Because we've got a lot already, are going to start making a whole lot more, and I doubt it would take even a fraction of the money the ten wealthiest families In Marienburg have to offer. But fair enough, if there's any excessive amounts we could spend at least some on Mathilde.
King Arthur said:
Nah, this is the one time we have an easy excuse for the money.

If Marienburg does the blockade despite us robbing them, and went peaceful ... we use Marienburgs money to help us and the Dawi not get damaged economically. If we didn't go peaceful, merc's, equipment, logistical stuff, all spent on Marienburgs dime.
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... I don't really think that would be Mathilde's problem, especially since if our advice has any effect chances are the dwarves would just smash the blockade. It wouldn't take that much spending.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade

Finally, caught up after reading (well, skimming) over 100 pages (made in less than a week)!

Forgot how fast this thread could go after an update with a vote.
 
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thepsyborg said:
We're pretty well off for a private citizen, but we're still one or two orders of magnitude off from being able to hire even a single top-flight mercenary company. Bankrolling Imperial military logistical self-sufficiency indefinitely (or the infrastructure to support it, really) is probably four or five orders of magnitude beyond that.
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Plus personally once we become a Lord Magister I think we should still donate some of our income equal to the tithe voluntarily. Remember we are going to be a major shareholder in the EIC when it goes huge baring a major upset and that will make us rich. It also means we can fund the Grey Order's operation which should help our internal influence and aid the order greatly.

Yeah, we are going to have a lot of thing to spend money on once we reach that level but we are still a Grey Wizard first and frankly this was one of the reason we got into the EIC in the first place.
 
Ericwinter said:
How much gold would it actually take to get all of said books? Because we've got a lot already, are going to start making a whole lot more, and I doubt it would take even a fraction of the money the ten wealthiest families In Marienburg have to offer.
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Bretonnian Extensive The Empire (100gc), Bretonnian Extensive Trade (100gc), Dwarven Antiquarian Sevir (100gc, 2 DF), Imperial Antiquarian Divine Magic (100gc, 2 CF), Imperial Antiquarian Enchantment (100gc, 2 CF), Imperial Extensive+Esoteric Chemistry (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Chemistry (100gc), Imperial Esoteric Engineering (150gc), Bretonnian Extensive Engineering (100gc), Dwarven Extensive Engineering (100gc), Imperial Esoteric Ulric (150gc), Bretonnian Extensive Ranald (100gc), Bretonnian Extensive Ulric (100gc), Bretonnian Extensive The Eonir of Laurelorn (100gc), Imperial Esoteric+Extensive The Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive The Ten Kindgoms of Ulthuan (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Arthropods (100gc), Extensive Dwarven Aethyr (100gc), Imperial Esoteric+Extensive Agriculture (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Agriculture (100gc), Imperial Esoteric+Extensive Naval Warfare (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Naval Warfare (100gc), Dwarven Extensive Naval Warfare (100gc), Imperial Extensive Verena (100gc), Bretonnian Extensive Verena (100gc), Imperial Esoteric+Extensive Tactics (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Tactics (100gc), Bretonnian Extensive Canines (100gc), Imperial Esoteric+Extensive Druchii (250gc), Bretonnian Extensive Druchii (100gc), Dwarven Extensive Druchii (100gc)
Total cost (including discount from budget): 3950gc, 4 CF

As for why this is all useful to Mathilde...

Agriculture - To help Panoramia with the Waaaghsoak mushrooms. (Bonus: Helps Panoramia with her personal agricultural efforts.)
Arthropods - Writing the book on the We. (Bonus: Helping Kazrik talk to one of Karak Eight Peaks' allies.)
Canines - Teaching Wolf stuff.
Chemistry - Helps with the Moulder chemicals and may help with the AV safety action through info on handling hazardous materials.
Divine Magic - Studying the Coin, plus follow up actions.
Druchii - For the elfcation.
Enchantment - For enchanting stuff.
Engineering - To study and write books on the plethora of our skaven artefacts. (Bonus: Helps Adela and Maximilian with their personal engineering efforts.)
Naval Warfare - To set up the paramilitary river navy.
Ranald - Studying the Coin, plus follow up actions.
Sevir - AV plus various other stuff.
Tactics - If we join the war in Sylvania it's not a small chance we'll wind up in command of an army. With her Martial and bonuses, Mathilde's probably better than all of Stirland's generals at fighting undead.
The Empire of Man - Lots of general use given the nation we're part of, but of greater relevance with the Marienburg situation.
The Eonir of Laurelorn - We've had to do diplomacy there and we may have to do so again.
The Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan - For the elfcation and possibly (though IMO unlikely) relevant with Marienburg.
Trade - To deal with the peat problem and possibly of relevance with Marienburg. (Bonus: Helps Wilhelimna with the EIC.)
Ulric - We've had to do diplomacy there and we may have to do so again.
Verena - For the book-sharing action.

EDIT: Plus there's all the Estalian and Tilean books we can buy after we learn Classical.
 
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Andres110 said:
I remember reading here or somewhere that the Vampire Counts' equivalent of galleons and ironclads is a flying castle. Is that true? I can't find any lore supporting it.
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Mopman43 said:
I don't think the Vampire Counts ever had anything in Man O' War? I suppose the closest would be Dreadfleet, where Count Noctilus' ship is basically a small Black Ark made from his own Sylvanian castle, but that's a rather special case rather than something they'd all do.

Edit: Yep, just checked, and there's info for the Empire, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Orcs, but no Vampires.
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There was an Undead fleet that did actually get rules in Citadel Journal #6, although GW never made them models. Their equivalent to Ironclads were Ghostships, which were vaguely ethereal, and their knockoff Black Arks (actually called a Floating Necropolis) were their equivalent to dreadnoughts.

MonkeyTypewriter said:
They don't have a coastline, so anything that that minor tabletop game says is basically irrelevant.
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Sylvania doesn't have a coastline, but the Vampire Coast exists and Mousillon has a coast and Galleon's Graveyard is in the middle of the ocean. And not every vampire lives in one of those locations.

ninjafish said:
So... Tip the odds and rig the game?
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Deal another hand and play!

veekie said:
Naw, more practically they just don't believe in ironclads and their prowess until they take a cannon up the ass.
Think from the perspective of a renaissance/medieval person being told about ships made of steel and cannon that can hit a target from miles away.

Everyone knows steel doesn't float.
Everyone knows that you can't fit a cannon that powerful on a ship. Why it'd tear through the wooden brackets with the recoil if it didn't just explode.
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Eh, Warhammer seems to have gone with "much bigger guns on the ocean" as standard. So the latter at least is probably untrue. Also, I'm unsure how much better Dwarfen guns actually are. They're certainly better gunners, but Dwarfen cannon and human ones seem much the same.

HanEmpire said:
This makes me wonder where the Merchant Princes source their timber from. If it's Bretonnia, what are the chances that the Bretonnians are going to price gouge the hell out of Marienburg and take near monopolistic control of the Ulthuan trade routes?
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Marienburg has enough money to pay the costs of rebuilding stuff, and Ulthuan has no real reason to reroute its trade.

Andres110 said:
Lord Magister means we no longer have to tithe any of our earnings, but we're still bound to the Vow of Poverty.

However, I have to remind people that the Vow of Poverty does not prohibit us from making money. What it forces us to do is spend that money on practical uses. So long as we're not hoarding it or spending it on impractical things, it is entirely ok to do things with the explicit goal of making money.
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While that's technically true, IIRC the real point of the Vow of Poverty is so that Greys have less incentive to go around being conpeople or thieves. It's not so much about the money as how you obtain it.
 
Andres110 said:
175gc per turn from the EIC after our debt's paid off. I don't believe we get a salary for our Loremaster job.
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We don't? That sucks. Anyways, some very rough math says we could get that in about thirty turns or so? Of course then we couldn't spend money on anything else, which would be hard, so it's even worse. Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to spending a chunk of any future windfalls on that, such as the proposed theft. Though considering just how rich Marienburg is, I still would expect much more money even if we only stole a fraction of Marienburg's riches.
 
Andres110 said:
Where'd you get this information? It's not in the character sheet and it's not on the main turn.
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It's in organizations.
BoneyM said:
Niter Factory: With dwarven help, the waste collected undergoes a series of arcane and disgusting processes to produce crystals of pure niter, of great value as a fertilizer and as an ingredient in gunpowder. These are currently sold to the dwarves of Zhufbar. +50 gc / turn, profits last collected 2478.5.
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BoneyM said:
Estate Coffers: 196 crowns as of the beginning of 2482
Estate Profits: 50 crowns / turn
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deathofrats0808 said:
There was an Undead fleet that did actually get rules in Citadel Journal #6, although GW never made them models. Their equivalent to Ironclads were Ghostships, which were vaguely ethereal, and their knockoff Black Arks (actually called a Floating Necropolis) were their equivalent to dreadnoughts.
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Thanks. Also them being necropolises lets me realise how they can fly. Flying castles doesn't sound like something necromancy does.
 
BoneyM said:
Pay is 57, which lines up with what I remembered (60 minus tithe) but I was doing the tithe wrong. Expenditures have been coming out of ingots so it looks like Mathilde missed a payday on Turn 27 too.
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Boney has touched on it a few times throughout the thread but this is the most recent one iirc, but yeah our salary is 60 minus our tithe.
 
Does make me wonder, will we get a pay bump from Belegar if we become a Lord Magister? After all a Runelords time is worth more than a Master Runesmith.
 
On the Marienburg heist idea, I have a plan.

1. We get someone to learn how to hire a gyrocarrier, or preferably, hire someone who already knows, though I doubt anyone who can pilot a gyrocarrier wants to be part of a heist.
2. Buy a gyrocarrier with gold or favour.
3. We finally make use of that largely useless Windherder trait that I hate. With shadow magic, we enchant the gyrocarrier so it's completely silent, and with celestial magic, we also ensure that it doesn't create any kind of downdraft. We also paint the gyrocarrier dark colours so that it's harder to see at night.
4. We fly the gyrocarrier over to the Marienburgers' treasure vault and land it on the roof.
5. We surgically cut a hole into the roof with Branulhune.
6. The crew loads up all the gold and jewels and promissory notes and the like into the gyrocarrier.
7. Fly away with all our ill-gotten goods.
8. Repeat steps 3, 5, and 6 until the vault is empty.
9. Celebrate.
 
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Andres110 said:
On the Marienburg heist idea, I have a plan.
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I imagine Boney would probably figure out the specifics himself, though if we're doing enchanting it might take a few actions. On the other hand, this really depends on whether said heist would be officially sanctioned or not. Because if we've got Permission from Belegar, Algard, or maybe even Heidi since she has a vested interest in seeing Marienburg back in the fold, we could probably use more resources.
That said, having a dedicated stealth gyro would be really useful, I have to admit.
 
Ericwinter said:
I imagine Boney would probably figure out the specifics himself, though if we're doing enchanting it might take a few actions. On the other hand, this really depends on whether said heist would be officially sanctioned or not. Because if we've got Permission from Belegar, Algard, or maybe even Heidi since she has a vested interest in seeing Marienburg back in the fold, we could probably use more resources.
That said, having a dedicated stealth gyro would be really useful, I have to admit.
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If we have permission from Belegar, that solves the issue of a gyrocarrier pilot. And with Algard's help, we may be able to use his pocket dimension magic to store more loot on the gyrocopter.

NexusEye said:
We're being paid for being a Loremaster, not a wizard, so probably not.
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No, we're Court Wizard. The 'Loremaster' title is largely for the sake of conservative dwarves who are otherwise uncomfortable with the idea of court wizards in dwarf holds.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Eh, Warhammer seems to have gone with "much bigger guns on the ocean" as standard. So the latter at least is probably untrue. Also, I'm unsure how much better Dwarfen guns actually are. They're certainly better gunners, but Dwarfen cannon and human ones seem much the same.
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Basically the limitation on cannons on ships is that they are:
-Smaller, as larger cannons cannot be effectively maneuvered on board and the weight of both cannon and shot rapidly escalate with size. Remember most of them need to be pulled inside to reload, then shoved out to fire.
--Dwarf dreadnaughts as I understand it use turrets, which allows a larger cannon to be maneuvered. And with steam power they can move a lot more mass.

-Less powerful, as where a land artillery unit can be partly dug into the ground for support, and a fixed artillery unit can be far larger due to being mounted into stone and metal, a shipboard cannon is mounted on wood. Powerful recoil would break the wooden supports.
--Dwarf dreadnaughts have cannon mounted to metal brackets, which are dwarf grade metal and can handle a lot more recoil.

-Accuracy has to deal with the ship itself being an uneven surface that constantly moves. Powerful singular shots are not as useful.
--Dreadnaughts deal with this by being large enough that it actually IS semi-stable unless in extremely rough waters.

Essentially, dwarf dreadnaughts should be packing cannons equivalent to human light fixed emplacement artillery, and fired by better gunners. This would be considered wildly unrealistic by people familiar with wooden ships and ship to ship combat.
 
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