Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Semi-Autogyro]

You know, I wonder if there's any nontraditional classes at the College of Navigation & Sea Magicks Mathilde could bribe he way into attend. Ones that don't get taught at Altdorf or Or case peruse their library. If they get tetchy about being a Grey Wizard Mathilde can just shrug and say that's she's there as the Court Wizard of Karak Eight Peaks. Plus, I bet Mathilde would want to visit the Temple of Ranald at least once. I mean, in every other town there would be so much legwork to form a heist crew. In Marienburg, all she'd have to do is sit in a corner and act mysterious!

 

[picklepikkl]

I thought on an action, visit Marienburg and use The Deceiver face of the coin to spread rumours in Marienburg so that we are spreading as much discontent towards blockading the empire as possible.

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The problem is that the Coin doesn't make you supernaturally convincing, it just makes people believe you believe what you are saying.

Like, in real life, I believe that the dude who stands on street corners yelling about a conspiracy to destroy the country believes what he is saying. I do not think he is trying to trick me. But I also think he's, to put it charitably, off-base. If a complete unknown starts spreading rumors, then even if people believe she isn't lying, they still have no reason to trust her information; they'll never believe you're lying, but they might believe you're wrong, or just crazy. So I don't think we could stir up discontent in Marienburg using the Coin; at least, not without the benefit of pre-existing contacts or other avenues for disseminating information.

 

[Rafin]

Nitpicking the "lives cost" of trade distruption over military action. Where supposedly trade kills more people because civilians are stupid and nobles are heartless and greedy, and war is a game of chicken.

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Oh. I thought when people made those arguments they were mostly talking either about Dwarf lives or Empire lives.

the heads of the ten wealthiest Merchant Houses

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Officially the ten wealthiest at any given time, or more of an unofficial chicken/egg type of thing where being a Directorate House helps accumulate wealth and being wealthy allows you to exert political pressure?

Yes, the normal procedure would have been for the Electors to vote on a new Baron, but the city was such a clusterfuck of competing interests that any decision would be worse than no decision. Magnus the Pious is said to have prayed on the matter for several days before deciding to let the city form a Directorate to manage itself. Things worked out fine right up until they didn't.

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Wait. What happened to Marienburg/Westerlands before they bought their independence?

Sort of. Now it's humans poking the Slann.

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Huh? I haven't heard of that.

@DragonParadox Something in the discussion changed your mind. I haven't kept up to date, what was it?

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It was the following:

The main road is the same road the Expedition took when it first set off from the Empire. There can be trouble from the Forest Goblins, but it's usually fine, and Barak Varr is able to project power along the route with their monitors. The problem is a matter of logistics: what it takes one ship to deliver would take a lot of wagons and a lot of wagoneers and a lot of draught animals and a lot of time, and that's not something that can be scaled up easily. The other major route is the River of Echoes that goes under the Vaults between Estalia and Wissenland, but that's got a hard size limit and requires rowing.

So while there will inevitably be casualties because there's very few entirely safe roads in the setting, the main factor isn't deaths, it's the expenditure of money and resources and influence it will take to replace the near-frictionless wind-powered free energy machines that we call 'ships' with muscle power.

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a what do you call it... folk tale or myth maybe?

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Anecdote?

Why skip a vote you don't care about, when you can sell your vote or lack thereof to someone who does?

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Rich people are often busy people. And the council has to decide on all laws and policies, not just the profitable or interesting ones. So ot might often be that even the bribes involved are literally not worth the time of all 15 of them.

I kinda want to built a superweapon that makes others miscast. I think the runesmiths would enjoy that too.

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That's how you get demons.

 

[ReImagined]

The problem is that the Coin doesn't make you supernaturally convincing, it just makes people believe you believe what you are saying.

Like, in real life, I believe that the dude who stands on street corners yelling about a conspiracy to destroy the country believes what he is saying. I do not think he is trying to trick me. But I also think he's, to put it charitably, off-base. If a complete unknown starts spreading rumors, then even if people believe she isn't lying, they still have no reason to trust her information; they'll never believe you're lying, but they might believe you're wrong, or just crazy. So I don't think we could stir up discontent in Marienburg using the Coin; at least, not without the benefit of pre-existing contacts or other avenues for disseminating information.

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It could work if we Doppelganger'd into a series of reputable figures. As a Gray Wizard, this type of task is perfectly in our wheelhouse. I don't think this is really in the scope of our remit, though. We have a job and research to do.

 

[deathofrats0808]

Wait. What happened to Marienburg/Westerlands before they bought their independence?

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The Baron of Westerland died fighting for Magnus during the Great War Against Chaos. When Magnus got back to the Empire basically everyone wanted the title because Marienburg is worth a ton of money. Like, there was almost a civil war over it. A bunch of merchants from Marienburg went to Magnus and said he could avoid the political troubles by just allowing them to govern themselves. He thought and prayed on it and went with that solution. Which worked really really well for a bit as the new province of Westerland ran smoothly. But the Directorate spent the next century gathering power and influence and weakening the Empire's grip on the city. Then bought out Dieter IV and threw back the Empire's armies three times and won independence, which the Empire has never liked.

 

[Mopman43]

Wait. What happened to Marienburg/Westerlands before they bought their independence?

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The last baron died around the time of the Great War Against Chaos and the city was such a political clusterfuck that Magnus figured it'd be simpler to let them handle it themselves.

Edit: Weber'd.

 

[King Arthur]

The problem is that the Coin doesn't make you supernaturally convincing, it just makes people believe you believe what you are saying.

Like, in real life, I believe that the dude who stands on street corners yelling about a conspiracy to destroy the country believes what he is saying. I do not think he is trying to trick me. But I also think he's, to put it charitably, off-base. If a complete unknown starts spreading rumors, then even if people believe she isn't lying, they still have no reason to trust her information; they'll never believe you're lying, but they might believe you're wrong, or just crazy. So I don't think we could stir up discontent in Marienburg using the Coin; at least, not without the benefit of pre-existing contacts or other avenues for disseminating information.

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You could always combine it with Doppelganger.

A random stranger shouting something alarming you know they believe to be true vs one of the leaders of the city doing the same thing is a completley different story.

 

[Parzival95]

Something Mathilde could do: she could make fake but highly convincing copies of the Liber Mortis, with subtly bad information and booby traps and plant them to damage or frame her enemies.

I wouldn't want to make it completely filled with Dhar like the original, but people wouldn't necessarily know that so it'd probably be fine without it reeking of Dhar.

Like, I think it would be hilarious to put a copy in the Marienburg college and then arrange for one of our allies to "discover" it, and then have everyone freak out over the Marienburg wizards reading all about fundamental dark magic. It would be really mean, but also motivational.

 

[chocolote12]

Something Mathilde could do: she could make fake but highly convincing copies of the Liber Mortis, with subtly bad information and booby traps and plant them to damage or frame her enemies.

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I think that that'd just make it a normal copy of the Liber Mortis, then. All of the adulterated ones are trapped to heck and back.

 

[King Arthur]

- The Protector: When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger that you did not cause, they will become aware of what you have done and will believe you acted selflessly in doing so.

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I've got a weird question about this.

How does this interact with disguises? Like, if we set the coin to Protector for whatever reason, disguise ourselves for intrigue purposes and act to protect people ... do we get the Rep bonus or does the Disguise get the Rep bonus, assuming we don't reveal ourselves?

Also, does this activate if we try to protect people but fail?

 

[MooseHowl]

Something Mathilde could do: she could make fake but highly convincing copies of the Liber Mortis, with subtly bad information and booby traps and plant them to damage or frame her enemies.

I wouldn't want to make it completely filled with Dhar like the original, but people wouldn't necessarily know that so it'd probably be fine without it reeking of Dhar.

Like, I think it would be hilarious to put a copy in the Marienburg college and then arrange for one of our allies to "discover" it, and then have everyone freak out over the Marienburg wizards reading all about fundamental dark magic. It would be really mean, but also motivational.

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Keep in mind Gold wizards can easily track who made it and how, with a single spell.

Nothing stopping them, if it doesn't reek of Dhar. Even if it did, it would be worth the risk.

 

[chocolote12]

I've got a weird question about this.

How does this interact with disguises? Like, if we set the coin to Protector for whatever reason, disguise ourselves for intrigue purposes and act to protect people ... do we get the Rep bonus or does the Disguise get the Rep bonus, assuming we don't reveal ourselves?

Also, does this activate if we try to protect people but fail?

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It only works if we actually protect them; think of it as if it activated on success.

Ranald has miracles designed for obscuring the identities of his priests (because they're illegal and stuff), so I recall Boney saying that we could fairly easily get it to attune to an assumed identity instead of our main one.

 

[SaltyWaffles]

What makes you think Marienburg wont go turbo-all in on deniable assets to fuck the canals up and everything in between if we blast their city?

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It's not that they wouldn't do it (though they might not, considering that the last time they fucked with the canal projects, the dwarves sailed up with a fleet of ironclads and blasted up their fleet). It's that they'd suffer some pretty serious consequences if they did--because Grey Order. And because you can only throw so many deniable assets at the same things that only one group has both the money and the will to do before the Empire goes "two can play at that game", except that the Empire's assets include an entire order of magical assassins.

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

What makes you think Marienburg wont go turbo-all in on deniable assets to fuck the canals up and everything in between if we blast their city?

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Because at that point they'd already be under the guns of the Barak Var navy. Such efforts would be responded to via naval bombardment until they stopped.

 

[King Arthur]

so I recall Boney saying that we could fairly easily get it to attune to an assumed identity instead of our main one.

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Huh, in that case ... I sort of want to put on a disguise as a Ranaldian, like, wear a mask of Ranald and a Priest outfit or something, and go save some lives while using the Protector coin. Get him some more worshipers + positive public reception.

The last time Ranald got any amount of power he went as hard as he possibly could, making his follower the Empress, so I'm really curious what he'd do if we increased his income at all.

 

[Redshirt Army]

I've got a weird question about this.

How does this interact with disguises? Like, if we set the coin to Protector for whatever reason, disguise ourselves for intrigue purposes and act to protect people ... do we get the Rep bonus or does the Disguise get the Rep bonus, assuming we don't reveal ourselves?

Also, does this activate if we try to protect people but fail?

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IIRC, it works the way superheroes do - nobody (automatically) associates the mild-mannered Mathilde Weber with the dashing and daring Crimson Shadow, yet the heroics of the latter are sung by bards far and wide!

 

[King Arthur]

IIRC, it works the way superheroes do - nobody (automatically) associates the mild-mannered Mathilde Weber with the dashing and daring Crimson Shadow, yet the heroics of the latter are sung by bards far and wide!

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Awesome, I love it.

I really want to use this to throw some public good will Ranald's way. See what the mad lad would do with some more power.

 

[ninjafish]

Given that Boney said that the Dwarfs would make sure that they don't need to make two trips, if it gets that far, I'm pretty sure that they're razing everything that could be an issue, not just the fleet itself.

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i'd like to point out that if that happens, then with a little bit of luck, the empire may actually be able to reclaim them outright before they can finish rebuilding.

 

[Mopman43]

i'd like to point out that if that happens, then with a little bit of luck, the empire may actually be able to reclaim them outright before they can finish rebuilding.

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Or they'll lose to Bretonnia. It's a possibility.

 

[NSMS]

i'd like to point out that if that happens, then with a little bit of luck, the empire may actually be able to reclaim them outright before they can finish rebuilding.

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That, at least, is unlikely; any attack by Barak Varr would be aimed at crippling their naval capabilities, not their land armies or land-oriented defenses. Plus, there's a much higher chance of High Elf involvement in that scenario.

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

That, at least, is unlikely; any attack by Barak Varr would be aimed at crippling their naval capabilities, not their land armies or land-oriented defenses. Plus, there's a much higher chance of High Elf involvement in that scenario.

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I agree. That said, I could see Nordland deciding that picking a fight with both the Eonir and the Ulcurans is a terrible idea, and go for some border adjustments at Marienburg's expense instead.

 

[Mopman43]

That said, I could see Nordland deciding that picking a fight with both the Eonir and the Ulcurans is a terrible idea, and go for some border adjustments at Marienburg's expense instead.

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It's just swamp until you hit the city. (Well, I'm pretty sure it's still swamp in the city, but you know what I mean)

The only thing worth taking in the Wastelands is Marienburg itself. It's made sure of that.

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

It's just swamp until you hit the city. (Well, I'm pretty sure it's still swamp in the city, but you know what I mean)

The only thing worth taking in the Wastelands is Marienburg itself. It's made sure of that.

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There are still quite a few villages on the border with Nordland, and one decentish town in Aaranu. They could probably rip off a low quality barony off of Marienburg.

 

[Awetduck]

Hmm, would they be receptive? On the one hand, ancestor gods. On the other, I think Valaya at least would appreciate a defender of the hold, no matter the shape.

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I imagine Valaya as that one grandma who always has something baking and angrily tells your friends they are too skinny and beards aren't goomed enough. But also you've seen her butcher a pig and she once explained that "every animal has enough brains to cure its own hide, so if you act dumb again at least it'll be good for something"

 

[NexusEye]

Something I don't think anyone has mentioned, although I may have just missed it given how fast the thread's been moving lately, is that if Barak Varr destroys Marienburg's navy They won't have any ships left to protect their trade ships from pirates. This would mean either lost revenue from raided ships and merchants who refuse to risk their goods or having to pay for an entire fleet of mercenaries till their navy is rebuilt. Now this is Marienburg, they have enough money that I highly doubt there'll be any actual long-term damage from this but it is something to keep in mind.