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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Darrenb209 said:
In complete honesty, I'm honestly surprised that breaking the blockade means breaking the cities ability to maintain a blockade instead of breaking a few important things and then negotiating with the Marienburgers from a point of strength.
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The ability to keep up the blockade is the few important things. :V
But seriously, dwarves don't mess about, they go to breack a thing, they break a thing.

killfr3nzy said:
??? Is this a joke? How have you not considered that unless this is the cleanest, nicest, least disruptive literal invasion of another nation and city where we destroy their entire ability to project force (navy, army, mages) as well as every defence against invasion they have people will die?

Somehow increasing the volume of trade on safe trade routes will lead to a massacre, while destroying a neighbouring nation's armed forces and fortifications will be 100% clean and surgical?
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Did you get a good price on all that straw?
 
Garlak said:
? So you're saying that if a Waaagh unexpectedly cropped up in the next year or two, it would cost Dawi lives? I'm... not sure how that pertains to my specific question topic. Because that's sort of an 'Well of course if a Waaagh happens, bad shit will happen.' This will remain true even in the case where Barak Varr sent its ironclads to Marienburg.
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Any land a Whaaagh occasionally marches through unstopped is land that smaller warbands raid as well.
Aranfan said:
GM has already confirmed otherwise.
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GM confirmed that it will cost less lives than a naval battle. But for the Empire a budget increase often translates into lives saved almost directly. And the vote option clearly states that both polities will be weakened to some extent.
 
Valmond said:
The ability to keep up the blockade is the few important things. :V
But seriously, dwarves don't mess about, they go to breack a thing, they break a thing.


Did you get a good price on all that straw?
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How is saying that a trade dispute will be less bloody than an armed conflict a "strawman?"

Also one thing I haven't seen mentioned in the thread: If we're trying to push diplomacy with the elves during the elfcation, why are people supporting an action that will lead to increased tension with the elves even if it doesn't break out into armed conflict? Even if it doesn't come to a fight, they're not going to be happy about an armed conflict on the site of their new world colony, with their historic ally.
 
Guile said:
Also I guess the dwarves and elves in this metaphor are Marienburg and the Empire's bigger brothers with bigger knives, and we're all kinda hoping it doesn't all turn into a quadruple homcide? Metaphors are hard.
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Nah, the Karaz Ankor and Ulthuan don't have knives, they have small nuclear arsenals. Also other options, but if it gets that point, everyone is screwed.
 
I didn't really read the last 6 pages in detail, but why are we now discussing the innocent people who would end up as collateral in Marienburg? It seems like a heavily out of character consideration for pretty much all involved IC parties. Even of Mathilde put a little X behind the "humanity" section of her loyalty list half a decade or so ago.
 
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Alratan said:
The Empire has no legal authority over any elf in their territory. The response to that is for Ulthuan to exercise their treaty right to have the people who were involved in killing the elves handed over, prosecute them for murder, and execute them. Ulthuan has full authority over any crime involving elves in the Empire, whether as alleged victims or perpetrators.

Think of this as Qing China and the British Empire.
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How do you (meaning Ulthuan) expect us to be able to capture some kind of superior Elvish (but I repeat myself) shadow assassin alive in order to ship them back to Ulthuan for trial? The very idea is absurd.

You ask too much of us, we are but harathoi. Or whatever they call humans; 'jealous youth with boundless energy' is probably too complimentary a term for humans, considering the Dwarves call us 'dirt.'
BoneyM said:
That's what invisibility is for.
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"Oh, the quiet sobbing from the third room on the right? Pay it no mind. The College is lousy with ghosts, I'm afraid."
"What?!"
"Don't worry, don't worry, we have everything under control. We're the Grey College."
 
Rafin said:
I didn't really read the last 6 pages in detail, but why are we now discussing the innocent people who would end up as collateral in Marienburg? It seems like a heavily out of character consideration for pretty much all involved IC parties. Even of Mathilde put a little X behind the "humanity" section of her loyalty list half a decade or so ago.
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Nitpicking the "lives cost" of trade distruption over military action. Where supposedly trade kills more people because civilians are stupid and nobles are heartless and greedy, and war is a game of chicken.


Also as an aside, just to be sure. If the gunboat diplomacy wins and wrecks Elven relation with Empire and Dwarves, will Mathilde's Elven Shadow Training still be possible? Are the Elven Ninjas divorced enough from the ones from Marienburg?
 
Question to the thread, what would you expect Marienburg to do if the empire tells them that the Empire can't stop the canal? That they also don't have political leverage on the dwarves. Would they still do the embargo if they are told it can't influence the dwarves?
ie If the just no option gets picked.
 
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Interesting said:
Question to the thread, what would you expect Marienburg to do if the empire tells them that the Empire can't stop the canal? That they also don't have political leverage on the dwarves. Would they still do the embargo if they are told it can't influence the dwarves?
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They'd think the Empire is lying to them, and they'd be right. While we dislike it due to both Karaz Ankor politics and showing susceptibility to blackmail, getting Thorgrim to stop the construction is a relatively cheap option for the Empire.
 
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TimEd said:
Also as an aside, just to be sure. If the gunboat diplomacy wins and wrecks Elven relation with Empire and Dwarves, will Mathilde's Elven Shadow Training still be possible? Are the Elven Ninjas divorced enough from the ones from Marienburg?
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"Was Naggaroth involved? No? Then why should we care?"

Interesting said:
Question to the thread, what would you expect Marienburg to do if the empire tells them that the Empire can't stop the canal? That they also don't have political leverage on the dwarves. Would they still do the embargo if they are told it can't influence the dwarves?
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The purpose of the canals is to facilitate trade with the Empire. That falls apart if the Empire isn't cooperating. This would also do bad things to relations between Dwarves and the Empire, which is why the Empire doesn't want to do it.
 
TimEd said:
Also as an aside, just to be sure. If the gunboat diplomacy wins and wrecks Elven relation with Empire and Dwarves, will Mathilde's Elven Shadow Training still be possible? Are the Elven Ninjas divorced enough from the ones from Marienburg?
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This wrecking Elven relations with the Empire seems unlikely, since the last time the Empire attacked Marienburg unprovoked (and the resulting Elven boot applied to Empire backside) didn't do it.
 
Guile said:
This wrecking Elven relations with the Empire seems unlikely, since the last time the Empire attacked Marienburg unprovoked (and the resulting Elven boot applied to Empire backside) didn't do it.
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Honestly I wonder if part of that may have been a somewhat violent chiding on someone, perhaps Teclis', part, at the Empire's mismanagement of their wizards by pointing out how fucked they are against magic-using opponents. Protect their interests with minimal resources involved and show the Empire to quit fucking around without grievously damaging their ability to fight the forces of destruction.

A sort of elegant brutality.
 
Interesting said:
Question to the thread, what would you expect Marienburg to do if the empire tells them that the Empire can't stop the canal? That they also don't have political leverage on the dwarves. Would they still do the embargo if they are told it can't influence the dwarves?
ie If the just no option gets picked.
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They wouldn't do anything but oh my the bandits and pirates are very active this year aren't they? Such a shame about all of your caravans really...

Edit: Nevermind GM has deployed Eshin arts
 
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