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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Honestly I wonder if part of that may have been a somewhat violent chiding on someone, perhaps Teclis', part, at the Empire's mismanagement of their wizards by pointing out how fucked they are against magic-using opponents. Protect their interests with minimal resources involved and show the Empire to quit fucking around without grievously damaging their ability to fight the forces of destruction.

A sort of elegant brutality.
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"We're murdering your armies with magic to teach you a lesson; you'll thank us someday" does sound like the kind of thing an Elf would do. And then congratulate themselves on their far-sightedness and mercy.
 
LLSix said:
Historically, most polities that impose a blockade like this, blocking off one of their major trading partners, ended up hurting themselves more than anyone else. When the Confederacy self-imposed a cotton blockade, the rest of the world found other sources of cotton (most famously from Egypt). When OPEC self-imposed production limits, it raised the cost of oil so high that previously unprofitable oil reservoirs suddenly became profitable. Now the world's largest consumer of oil actually exports oil instead of buying from OPEC. Yes, the Marienburg blockade will be annoying in the short term, but even if the canal projects fail, the natural response of Empire citizens finding new trade routes and enlarging existing ones to handle the sudden increase in demand will put the Empire in a better position relative to Marienburg, and make their return more likely in the future.

There's every reason to expect the Empire to be able to weather this tempest in a teapot. Even the vote options make it clear that the Empire will survive this. It'll weaken the Empire, temporarily. Not kill it. Yes, individual Elector Counts are currently dealing with a number of problems. But the Empire is not. The Empire is not facing any immediate crises, which makes this the best possible time to go through with this. Individual Elector Counts will always be dealing with a number of crises. Having powerful Elector Counts who can be relied on to deal with local problems with no or minimal aid from the Empire is one of the few strengths of the system.

Shoot, if Marienburg really imposes a blockade, that just incentivizes all the existing river trade companies to invest in facilities to ship through the new canals when they open. Suddenly all the wealth that was flowing to a self-declared enemy of the Empire will be flowing into one of its, and our, allies.

[X] They can make up for the loss in trade

Also approval voting this because anything is less stupid than converting an economic gambit we're winning into a war we might lose.
[X] For sufficient concessions
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Ok , I am convinced changing vote

[X] They can make up for the loss in trade
 
ReImagined said:
Tbh I expect that to happen in any scenario where the canals continue, i.e both of the currently winning options.
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How much would the dwarves care about how "deniable" the assets were?
Now i doubt they would instantly go and burn down Marienburg, but everyone would know that any sudden increase in banditry and piracy would almost certainly be thanks to Marienburg, and Dwarves are not known to let things go.
 
Valmond said:
How much would the dwarves care about how "deniable" the assets were?
Now i doubt they would instantly go and burn down Marienburg, but everyone would know that any sudden increase in banditry and piracy would almost certainly be thanks to Marienburg, and Dwarves are not known to let things go.
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As an example, I'm sure Sartosa has accrued more than enough grudges on its own already. They just don't have the incentives to clear them out when there's so many other problems to deal with.
 
Both options have inherent costs in money and people.
Both options have inherent risks that could escalate the situation so even more money and people are lost.
People disagree on the exact scale of each cost, and the likelihood of the risks involved coming to pass.

I think I just summarised the last fifty-odd pages there.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
[x] They can make up for the loss in trade

Why even have all that precious metal lying around if not to use it for situations exactly like this?
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It's not just gold, it's time and manpower, which could be spent on other things-- like supporting various ongoing military campaigns against Skaven, Vampires, Ogres, etc. And if, say, a Waaagh comes along while both polities are weakened...
 
ReImagined said:
It's not just gold, it's time and manpower, which could be spent on other things-- like supporting various ongoing military campaigns against Skaven, Vampires, Ogres, etc. And if, say, a Waaagh comes along while both polities are weakened...
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Then the colleges of magic can send out battle mages to crush it with their new found understanding of how to flex all over shaman?
 
Alratan said:
The Treaty of Amity and Commerce between the Empire and Ulthuan, which Marienberg, as a successor to the Empire, is also bound by. It's based, including the name, on the unequal treaties that China signed with the European powers.

Warhammer isn't subtle about the relative statuses and relations between Ulthuan and the Old World powers. Ulthuan is very much the fantasy British Empire (just as the Empire is the fantasy HRE), and the authors haven't been shy about mining history to use bits of it in the way it's relations with the rest of the world work.
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As I said last time you brought this up, that's from the 1st edition RPG and Boney hasn't stated if it's quest-canon. Ask for clarification or stop assuming it's automatically canon.

Also, Marienburg signed that treaty when the Empire was in tatters, I see absolutely zero reason to think it would apply to more than just Marienburg and the Wasteland.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
[x] They can make up for the loss in trade

Why even have all that precious metal lying around if not to use it for situations exactly like this?
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ReImagined said:
It's not just gold, it's time and manpower, which could be spent on other things-- like supporting various ongoing military campaigns against Skaven, Vampires, Ogres, etc. And if, say, a Waaagh comes along while both polities are weakened...
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Which, as i have argued, will lead to loss of lives.
 
HanEmpire said:
Aren't they held up in Sylvania still? Vampires are still around. Plus that trick hasn't been tested using the other Winds yet.
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The Empire has more than the handful of battle mages that were seconded to Sylvania.

Valmond said:
Also theory is not the same as practice.
It would be preferable to not need to send out battle wizards to destroy waaghs, or atleastto have decent military backup to them.
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I find the idea that the Empire wont be able to field an army to fight a waaagh to be nonsensical, no matter what option is chosen here and frankly battle mages are army killers in this quest setting. Also no matter what option is taken if a waaagh is forming you do your best to destroy it before it rolls over into your territory.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Then the colleges of magic can send out battle mages to crush it with their new found understanding of how to flex all over shaman?
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What Battle Mages?


The ones in Sylvania?

Edit: The ones who were given a direct order from the Emperor and Supreme Patriarch to go and keep fucking Sylvania up until all the Vampires are gone?
 
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Did the Empire send literally all of the Battle Mages to Sylvania? I can't remember
 
If we really want to prevent a blockade .... then let's just go and burn some ships down. They can't use their navy to blockade us if they don't have a navy.

No matter how good their wizards and intrigue dudes are at preventing intrigue wizards, our coin is an advantage I'd bet they are not prepared for if used in the right way.

Alternatively, who wants to follow up the metaphysical heist of the century where we robbed Mork and Gork for their metaphysical lunch money, with the literal heist of the century and just steal all of Marienburg's money.

Can't pay for mercenaries if you broke.

The second one is much, much harder ... but who wouldn't love to go full Ocean's Eleven with our boy Ranald?

These are two longshots, I acknowledge, but Mathilde by herself is a powerful actor. Maybe she can't prevent this from kicking off .... but, I mean, she's pulled off miracles before.

Also, I'm still not entirely sure how their government works, how hard would it be to get a position of leadership there?
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
I find the idea that the Empire wont be able to field an army to fight a waaagh to be nonsensical, no matter what option is chosen here and frankly battle mages are army killers in this quest setting. Also no matter what option is taken if a waaagh is forming you do your best to destroy it before it rolls over into your territory.
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And how effective the response is will depend on what resources are available, and how fast they can be recalled.
 
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