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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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The numbers of people willing to blood sacrifice to get chaos mutations would imply that there are actually quite a few people that'd take up the offer of free Dragonification.
 
I'd note that for many the Transformation IS a suicide mission...the wounds stay even after changing back, so light battle wounds for a dragon might kill you when its done.

Can't safely heal while under a powerful Ghur effect either.
 
veekie said:
I'd note that for many the Transformation IS a suicide mission...the wounds stay even after changing back, so light battle wounds for a dragon might kill you when its done.

Can't safely heal while under a powerful Ghur effect either.
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I guess they could stay Dragons until the wounds heal naturally.

Somewhat risky on the mental side, but better than death.
 
Rafin said:
Wasn't the Amber College the first to adapt it
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They ran into some roadblocks and gave up, same as the Jade college.
BoneyM said:
Both projects petered out, unfortunately. Both tended towards organic and couldn't figure out how to adapt the static structure of the Matrix. They might be picked up again some time in the future.
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primemountain said:
I have just one core problem with it. It's that the Loremaster is talking about another Loremaster. The Empire will suppress the shit out of who translated the book, but you can bet Belegar won't. "My human Loremaster did something all you Longbeards couldn't do for centuries! Bah!"

In his own mind, that kind of recognition is owed. This was done by his order, on his dime, by his Loremaster. And no one is going to forget that debt, because dwarves. Mat being human is incidental. No one is going to piss on his choice anymore, or face his wrath.

I would expect the Loremaster of Karaz-a-Karak to be disgusted at the idea of a human Loremaster, but grudgingly impressed that maybe sometimes you need a mud person to dig through Skaven shit. All the while his head hurts from trying to reconicile himself to the idea that after this, he has to accept a human Loremaster. Not because Mat's worthy of the title, in his mind, but because her contribution is undeniable.

So the grand Loremaster will probably split the difference, and since Mat doesn't have centuries of experience and knowledge, call her a shoddy Apprentice Lorekeeper as something he can stomach, while admitting that the odd King Belegar did title her Loremaster, for some reason. Probably because the silly thing keeps doing things like this, finding mines and ore in mud.

You can even draw a paralel between early humans digging out bog iron and dwarven iron mines. "I never would have dug in that ugly, diseased swamp, but I guess since she managed to find some ore, I'll respect it, even if it's disgusting and needs a lot of refinment and work to be proper, dwarf work. Shoddy manlings, but sometimes they strike true. "
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Nobody outside of the 8 Peaks council knows who wrote it. This was partly to give more credit to Belegar, given the "From an Old Hold" option that was chosen, and partially to try to avoid the inevitable Eshin hit-squads for cracking Queekish. When we publish in the Empire, we'll be Magister Grey.
 
Mopman43 said:
Nobody outside of the 8 Peaks council knows who wrote it. This was partly to give more credit to Belegar, given the "From an Old Hold" option that was chosen, and partially to try to avoid the inevitable Eshin hit-squads for cracking Queekish. When we publish in the Empire, we'll be Magister Grey.
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The cross-section of people who are Grey Magisters and people related to K8P only contains Mathilde so it's theoretically possible for someone to find out. It's just incredibly unlikely for someone to have strong connections in both the Grey College and Karaz a Karak. Especially for skaven spies.
 
Quest said:
The cross-section of people who are Grey Magisters and people related to K8P only contains Mathilde so it's theoretically possible for someone to find out. It's just incredibly unlikely for someone to have connections in both the Grey College and Karaz a Karak.
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I don't think Karak-8-Peaks' Loremaster(Mathilde) being a Grey Mage is particularly hidden for anyone who knows what that is.
 
Mopman43 said:
Right, but the Dwarfs won't know about the publication from Magister Grey, and Empire citizens won't know about the publication from K8P.
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Even if they know about both, that doesn't mean that they'll conclude that Mathilde made it.

The simple explanation is just that Mathilde acquired the Dwarven work, and translated it to Reikspiel, not that she made both.
 
Mopman43 said:
Nobody outside of the 8 Peaks council knows who wrote it. This was partly to give more credit to Belegar, given the "From an Old Hold" option that was chosen, and partially to try to avoid the inevitable Eshin hit-squads for cracking Queekish. When we publish in the Empire, we'll be Magister Grey.
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I'd be surprised if the Dwarves who read it won't notice that it was written by an Umgi. And from there putting two and two together should be possible enough at least for the majority of kings.
 
Rafin said:
I'd be surprised if the Dwarves who read it won't notice that it was written by an Umgi. And from there putting two and two together should be possible enough at least for the majority of kings.
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The kings aren't a concern. If they put it together, then that might be helpful. We just don't want it in wider circulation so the Skaven pick up on it.
 
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me to see Prince Ulthar send the 'Loremaster of Vala-Azril-Ungol' a Khazalid-Asrai (sic The Loony Wood Elves) dictionary or his collected captured Rakilid writings or something else 'entirely coincidentally.'
 
NuclearConsensus said:
I'm thinking such a spell would be difficult to nigh impossible to make, mostly because of a lack of willing test subjects. Transformed people might work, but the slight difference between them and trueborn dragons might be the difference between the spell succeeding or failing.
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I think a "turn into human" spell might solve a lot of problems if we can make one, but I don't think we'll be weaponizing it against dragons, no matter how funny it would be. Ultimately it depends on how it works when it's created, but I'd expect it wouldn't be ranged, and might not have much power against an unwilling target.
 
BoneyM said:
Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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veekie said:
I'd note that for many the Transformation IS a suicide mission...the wounds stay even after changing back, so light battle wounds for a dragon might kill you when its done.
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This, ultimately, is the reason I want an order of knights, not just because dragon knights are cool.

I want a group of people fully informed of the risks, willing to do it anyways, and honored for the sacrifices made. Who know it is magic and what to expect. It seems like a powerful foundation for a unit, and future heroic sacrifice is something I think knights will build their identity around. Knights praise eachother for bravery in the face of fates worse than death- but that doesn't mean most of them will step up.

Better to have someone who knows what is about to happen, is still committed to it, and ideally has some experience with it already. Make it exclusive and honored so you aren't stuck soliciting volunteers the hour of.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
I don't know - Nagash as well as Neferata and her bunch were pretty gung ho about ditching humanity.
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ninjafish said:
Those people are stupid.

Literally, most of them are probably very poorly educated.





I mean humanity is a shitty thing to have in warhammer, you get to be weaker than almost everyone else, shorter lived than almost everyone else, dumber than the elves and dwarves, less magically capable than the elves or dwarves, you always have to rely on gods or elder races to make any sort of progress or advancement, have to rely on your own enemies self destructive tendencies to have any real victories against them... Humans are generally just inferior in every way really.

Can't blame Nagash and co for wanting off that shitty wagon.

Thankfully the one good thing humanity has going for it is its extreme malleability and the ease with which it can be made into things that are no longer shitty humans.

The upsides of being an unfinished/failed god toad project I guess, you can make your own destiny!
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Andres110 said:
I dunno...if there's one thing I've learned from reading Warhammer stuff it's that the well of dumb people who think really bad ideas are actually super cool and unproblematic is very very very deep.
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DreamerGhost said:
The numbers of people willing to blood sacrifice to get chaos mutations would imply that there are actually quite a few people that'd take up the offer of free Dragonification.
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Ya know, I kind of pity the QM. He has to make sense of a setting whose worldbuilding has more holes than a swiss cheese.

Thinking rationally, even if turning into a dragon=dying for everyone (statistically impossible, and even 0,01% of people wanting to turn into dragons gives you enough dragons to matter), there are a lot of people willing to sacrifice themselves in desperate circumstances in Warhammer, for whom dragon=death would be heroic sacrifice with good chance of success vs heroic sacrifice with bad chance of success in a whole lotta situations. At this point I think that the simplest explanations is that "ghur magisters are not the kind of people that naturally think of how to break things, and the rest of the college never had the resources to make them experiment with this".
 
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