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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
I love the idea that the Ranald order is made of dragons. It's very Mathilde. Though I guess it's meta sneaky to throw dragons in the face of someone that expects a bunch of sneaky sneaks. And dragons do like to steal stuff. And they don't actually look like dragons. And it's always a gamble. So they just need to protect people, as knights do.

Huh, it actually works surprisingly well.
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All four faces in one. There's also the absolutely hilarious fact that Ranald--who I don't think actually has an Order of Knight's dedicated to him at the moment--would have both the smallest, and yet most militarily powerful Order in existence. Only twelve people, thirteen if you count the Keeper, and yet at the very least they can throw an army level threat at you with zero warning, more if we get really lucky and Boney feels nice.
 
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Using dwarf slayers for this might actually be a good idea (if they don't turn to stone).

Sure, it decreases the chance of dying to the emperor dragon, but it also boosts the chances of killing the enemy. The Slayer oath is not just a suicide oath, it's GLORIOUS HEROIC SUICIDE oath, and you get bonus honour points if you take your enemy with you.

Against an emperor dragon, a normal slayer would have 100% chance of death, 0.01% chance of success. Slayer oath fulfilled, but completely fucking outmatched.
A Slayer-turned-dragon on the other hand would still have a very good chance (80%) of death, but also a ~20% chance of taking the enemy with him.

So a slayer, when faced with an emperor dragon, would actually leap at the chance to be dragonified. After all, inflicting grievous wounds on the enemy, while dying in the process is much more glorious than being squished like a bug cos you were fighting an emperor dragon.
 
ninjafish said:
You forget, this can only be used on amber wizards, wizards who don't have an affiliation yet, and normal humans.

Wizards are pretty fucking rare, let alone any specific type of wizard.

and normal humans be scared of magic because the cult of sigmar and the cult of ulric are a cancer upon humanities progression as a species

Also GW does not think things through.
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Actually on this one they did, transformation of Kadon when dispelled turns you back into what ever you were before. BoneyM has made the change to the spell that instead dispelling it leaves you as a dragon which is a big change and part of what makes this so setting breaking, the other change is the easy availability of bound battle magic spells and that there's no limit to what can be easily enchanted into item form.

The only example in the TT for a bound spell is fireball CN 5. Otherwise you'd expect the elven armies to be filled to the brim with magical items as elven wizards live for centuries and have a very long time to be productive even if their training takes longer.


IronFist said:
Using dwarf slayers for this might actually be a good idea (if they don't turn to stone).

Sure, it decreases the chance of dying to the emperor dragon, but it also boosts the chances of killing the enemy. The Slayer oath is not just a suicide oath, it's GLORIOUS HEROIC SUICIDE oath, and you get bonus honour points if you take your enemy with you.

Against an emperor dragon, a normal slayer would have 100% chance of death, 0.01% chance of success. Slayer oath fulfilled, but completely fucking outmatched.
A Slayer-turned-dragon on the other hand would still have a very good chance (80%) of death, but also a ~20% chance of taking the enemy with him.

So a slayer, when faced with an emperor dragon, would actually leap at the chance to be dragonified. After all, inflicting grievous wounds on the enemy, while dying in the process is much more glorious than being squished like a bug cos you were fighting an emperor dragon.
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That goes against the idea of the slayer oath and what dwarven culture thinks the slayer oath is about. It's suicide against an enemy, not a heroic sacrifice, not a chance for glory. Slayers aren't even supposed to wear armour, there's no way they'll take to the idea of turning into dragons.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
That goes against the idea of the slayer oath and what dwarven culture thinks the slayer oath is about. It's suicide against an enemy, not a heroic sacrifice, not a chance for glory. Slayers aren't even supposed to wear armour, there's no way they'll take to the idea of turning into dragons.
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It's a Suicide that is meant to erase the stains of their dishonor.
They seek a great doom as a way to erase their (percieved) failures.

And even the most desperate Slayer can do the Math that dying to an emperor dragon while inflicting mortal wounds and saving thousands of dwarf lives in the process is a greater Doom than any they could achieve otherwise.

ymmv of course, but slayers, while desperate and quite insane, still have method to their madness.
 
I think it says something about the mindset of SV that when faced with the possibility of being trapped forever in a terrifying and inhuman form, the general response is, "that sounds awesome, what's the catch?"

Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
 
BoneyM said:
I think it says something about the mindset of SV that when faced with the possibility of being trapped forever in a terrifying and inhuman form, the general response is, "that sounds awesome, what's the catch?"

Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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On the other hand this is a setting where fates worse than death are not precisely uncommon, people risk them going to war and they risk them just living their every day lives and we have money to burn paying people to risk it.
 
BoneyM said:
I think it says something about the mindset of SV that when faced with the possibility of being trapped forever in a terrifying and inhuman form, the general response is, "that sounds awesome, what's the catch?"

Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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Technically I think this is more a product of decades of pro-dragon propaganda in pop culture.

If we were permanently trapping people as gelatenous cubes I think you'd see a different level of enthusiasm.
 
I mean, if there is a spell is developed that could transform a dragon into a human to solve the problems that Kadron has, why wouldn't we just build a battle alter of that and target enemy dragons? Solves the problem. A human that is confused because they used to be a dragon is a lot easier problem than a dragon.
 
Neshuakadal said:
I mean, if there is a spell is developed that could transform a dragon into a human to solve the problems that Kadron has, why wouldn't we just build a battle alter of that and target enemy dragons? Solves the problem. A human that is confused because they used to be a dragon is a lot easier problem than a dragon.
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I'm thinking such a spell would be difficult to nigh impossible to make, mostly because of a lack of willing test subjects. Transformed people might work, but the slight difference between them and trueborn dragons might be the difference between the spell succeeding or failing.
 
Neshuakadal said:
I mean, if there is a spell is developed that could transform a dragon into a human to solve the problems that Kadron has, why wouldn't we just build a battle alter of that and target enemy dragons? Solves the problem. A human that is confused because they used to be a dragon is a lot easier problem than a dragon.
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It's not invented yet and would take extra effort to have be invented, since we can't really do it ourself? Although if it ever is invented for whatever reason, that would be a really good combination with the current planned battle altar. Well, it would if there were anybody around who could conceivably field a dragon and the army that could use applications of our own dragon, but I don't think any of those hang out in this part of the world.
 
BoneyM said:
Your assignment for the remainder of this year is a light one, as Belegar knows you've still got to finish the Reikspiel version of the translation - to create, commission, devise, or otherwise see to some sort of plan for if the Ice Dragon turns hostile, ideally something that could also come in handy against other dragons or any other variety of enormous flying beast
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[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
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Belegar: I didn't think this through
BoneyM said:
Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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I mean, this is Warhammer, where fate worse than death happens often. After transforming and getting couple of dragons, I bet fate worse than death will happen even more often!
 
Whassup said:
Belegar: I didn't think this through
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You would think he learned the last time we got an "easy assignment".
Whassup said:
I mean, this is Warhammer, where fate worse than death happens often. After transforming and getting couple of dragons, I bet fate worse than death will happen even more often!
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...I'm pretty sure that's just lots of death, actually. Unless it's somehow worse that you're being killed by a dragon?
 
BoneyM said:
I think it says something about the mindset of SV that when faced with the possibility of being trapped forever in a terrifying and inhuman form, the general response is, "that sounds awesome, what's the catch?"

Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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Those people are stupid.

Literally, most of them are probably very poorly educated.



Zero Gravitas said:
I don't know - Nagash as well as Neferata and her bunch were pretty gung ho about ditching humanity.
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I mean humanity is a shitty thing to have in warhammer, you get to be weaker than almost everyone else, shorter lived than almost everyone else, dumber than the elves and dwarves, less magically capable than the elves or dwarves, you always have to rely on gods or elder races to make any sort of progress or advancement, have to rely on your own enemies self destructive tendencies to have any real victories against them... Humans are generally just inferior in every way really.

Can't blame Nagash and co for wanting off that shitty wagon.

Thankfully the one good thing humanity has going for it is its extreme malleability and the ease with which it can be made into things that are no longer shitty humans.

The upsides of being an unfinished/failed god toad project I guess, you can make your own destiny!
 
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@Neshuakadal All Dawi viewpoint stories are essentially translated into Umgi languages on here. And the Umgi language of English doesn't have that many different dictionary meanings for the same word as Khazalid. So replacing completely straight-forward sentences that (by an outsider) could just be read in multiple ways, one seemingly related to mining, earth and metal, into a mining metaphor that combines both readings is a completely expected thing to do for an Umgi scholar.

In other words, I liked your omake.
 
BoneyM said:
Please keep in mind that this is a mindset shared by about 0% of the people in the setting, who would instead see it as a fate worse than death.
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I dunno...if there's one thing I've learned from reading Warhammer stuff it's that the well of dumb people who think really bad ideas are actually super cool and unproblematic is very very very deep.
 
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ninjafish said:
Those people are stupid.

Literally, most of them are probably very poorly educated.
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...no, no they are not. Permanently being stuck as something completely foreign and unknown to the body you know, forever being outcast by society out of fear and having a massive target painted on your back for every power that wants to control (Or harvest) a young, inexperienced dragon is not my idea of a fun time either. And that's not even getting into the entirely justified fear of mutation and magic itself that permeates the setting.
 
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