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Aaaaaaaaa

That was... Yikes

The 6 was a direct agent of the Warlord-General of all Skavendom

The 1 was A fucking Verminlord

Thank fuck neither of those landed. We couldn't afford the 6, and the 1 would still have good odds of killing everyone in this mountain. Dragon included
Ranald: "Yo Mathilde, your temple be cool yo"
 
Aaaaaaaaa

That was... Yikes

The 6 was a direct agent of the Warlord-General of all Skavendom

The 1 was A fucking Verminlord

Thank fuck neither of those landed. We couldn't afford the 6, and the 1 would still have good odds of killing everyone in this mountain. Dragon included

I mean, if we ever have to fight a Verminlord, doing so with a Hysh using Emperor Dragon at our back would probably have been somewhat ideal.
 
GQUOTE="Neshuakadal, post: 13360276, member: 14924"]
Not a Council Member, but one of their agents.

Well obviously the Council sent someone to keep an eye on this conflict, so BoneyM rolled for what they were and we came up with a Loyal Agent of the Council (Which are really rare).
Personally, I'm super excited about their correspondence more than anything. Any insight at all into the inner workings of Skaven politics would be invaluable.
 
Aaaaaaaaa

That was... Yikes

The 6 was a direct agent of the Warlord-General of all Skavendom

The 1 was A fucking Verminlord

Thank fuck neither of those landed. We couldn't afford the 6, and the 1 would still have good odds of killing everyone in this mountain. Dragon included
You overestimate Greater Daemons.
 
ummm, what does that last roll mean exactly?


There were six potential outcomes to the last roll, about quite likely who the Eshin sorceror was about to betray.

1 Verminlord
2 Grey Seer
3 Financier
4 Council Agent
5 Council Agent (Loyal)
6 Paskrit's Agent

Rolling 1 would have been a disastrous outcome, which could have potentially increased the risk of Mathilde dying this vote from middling to extremely likely. Mathilde chances against a Verminlord, suffice to say are rather dim. 6 isn't good either, since Paskrit's direct agent (Paskrit is the strongest Warlord on the Council of Thirteen) is likely an even tougher opponent than the Eshin Sorcerer, so even if Mathilde rolls well and kills the assassin, she might be trapped in a second Elite Mob level fight, that is likely as difficult, if not more so than the Eshin Sorcerer fight.
 
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One thing I do fine hilariously Skaven is the fact that in the middle of this Thunderdome of a situation where everything is trying to kill everything else, the Skaven Sorcerer chooses now of all times to try and betray someone.
Pictured below: a typical Skaven.
 
Okay, so lets take Sigmar as a readily available example.
-Sigmar started as a barbarian warlord-smith-hammerguy devotee of Ulric, who was open minded enough to seek blessings from the other gods, tolerant of other races and had the aid of a questionably friendly witch. This guy would have been pretty bewildered by the modern take on Sigmar, especially how the church is fighting with the church of Ulric. He'd have no idea how the fuck you'd even treat a wound beyond asking Shallya or a witch for help. Heck, he'd probably have been just as mystified at the modern Ulricans objection to ranged weapons, they didn't really have much good ranged weapons back then, the modern selection is pretty cool.

-Over the course of his adventures, he united the many tribes into a single Empire, and got them all matched set of runeswords to act as a bond of brotherhood. Given the original era, he probably had his children married with their children to cement the alliance. This was early Sigmar-the-God, God-Emperor of the Empire he made.

-As God of the Empire, his priests needed powers to protect the Empire in battle, so thats what they got. Powers to heal, to smite the greenskin, the beastman, the undead, and the witch. Especially the witch, as all the rest could be handled with thews, but his proto-church were the main option for counterspelling.

-In granting these powers, he changed, his definition shifted. He went from Good Against These Enemies to Hates These Enemies. Thats just cultural drift...but its not like he liked those guys to begin with, so he wouldn't act to tell them "no, this isn't me".

-Then his Church got organized, as they were influential and powerful, and he again shifted. Maybe an earlier Sigmar might have opposed it, but Sigmar God of the Empire of Man isn't the same person, and wouldn't make the same choices as Sigmar God of The Barbarian Federation anymore than Loremaster Mathilde, who uses magic liberally to support her conventional skills, compared to Journeyman Mathilde, who would rather use practical mundane skills and equipment instead of risking miscasts.

And all this...isn't all that different from a person changing as duties and skills are honed.
And yet these things can be explained by an ascendent sigmar changing himself to suit new situations, although faith could also be part of the story.

What's a thew?

As an aside why wasn't there a god that did counter spelling before him?
Why is Verminlord & Paskritt's agent potentially more dangerous than even an Emperor Dragon?
One is a greater demon the other is a direct servant of the warlord of all skaven
 
And yet these things can be explained by an ascendent sigmar changing himself to suit new situations, although faith could also be part of the story.

What's a thew?

As an aside why wasn't there a god that did counter spelling before him?
I'm saying an ascendent Sigmar choosing to change in these ways and the faith changing him isn't necessarily distinct.

And while there were priests before that, most spellcasting priests don't join armies unless its in line with their god's will. Sigmar as God of Humanity/Empire could join every battle without further justification than I Am.

Thews already answered.
 
Muscle, as in the sword and sorcery use 'with thews of iron Conan killed the foul sorcerer' which come to think of it is rather Sigmar-like.
That explains the weird reproductive scheme of greenskins. Sigmar cannot hear the lamentations of their women if they have no women to lament. He still got to crush them though.
 
Aaaaaaaaa

That was... Yikes

The 6 was a direct agent of the Warlord-General of all Skavendom

The 1 was A fucking Verminlord

Thank fuck neither of those landed. We couldn't afford the 6, and the 1 would still have good odds of killing everyone in this mountain. Dragon included
It would be a pretty hilarious image, though - like something out of Scooby Doo. Mathilde pursues Eshin Sorcerer, runs right into a Verminlord, starts immediately running back to the dragon with Verminlord in pursuit.
Well, let's think of it this way:

If that roll did had ended up being a Verminlord? Then that's the gutsiest son of a bitch to ever have Skaven'd, if he were in the middle of betraying that!

Seriously, how gutsy do you have to be to be willing to betray a Verminlord? Though admittedly, his betraying actions would probably be shifted to make sense in light of the outcome. So that, for a Greater Daemon, the result might be something like "Sod this, I'm not dying here! Time to run like hell!" and he flees the battlefield entirely. So the betrayal is just deciding to not stick around and fight to the death on the orders of the Verminlord. Whereas for other options, it might be an actual backstab, or lying, or something.
 
There is still no good reason to stab the Eshin sorcerer.

I'm not worried about the stab part. Mathilde is master swordswoman with the closest thing to a Runefang currently existing on the Old World, an expertise in counterspelling, an belt crafted by the Runelord of the Age for when that fails and heal item for when that fails.

I'm worried about getting to the stab part, and I can't see what we gain from a successful stab?

We are a murder blender. We should have hunted down small fry, Mors and Eshin alike, leaving their Elites no choices but engaging each other, if we fought at all. This is pitching our strenght vs. the single most likely target where we are the weaker stealth character.
And if we succeed, what do we gain? A weakened Eshin, that is less trouble for Mors to crush. Meaning more Mors Elite left to charge our defense.

No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
 
There is still no good reason to stab the Eshin sorcerer.

I'm not worried about the stab part. Mathilde is master swordswoman with the closest thing to a Runefang currently existing on the Old World, an expertise in counterspelling, an belt crafted by the Runelord of the Age for when that fails and heal item for when that fails.

I'm worried about getting to the stab part, and I can't see what we gain from a successful stab?

We are a murder blender. We should have hunted down small fry, Mors and Eshin alike, leaving their Elites no choices but engaging each other, if we fought at all. This is pitching our strenght vs. the single most likely target where we are the weaker stealth character.
And if we succeed, what do we gain? A weakened Eshin, that is less trouble for Mors to crush. Meaning more Mors Elite left to charge our defense.

No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
Thats how you have the elites escaping the battle, as Skaven elites are well known for.
We WANT them to have a close fought battle, and they need mooks for the elites to stay in battle. If Sleek runs out of Stormvermin or Eshin runs out of Gutter Runners you'd see the heroes suddenly not reappearing the next time they drop from sight.
 
There is still no good reason to stab the Eshin sorcerer.

I'm not worried about the stab part. Mathilde is master swordswoman with the closest thing to a Runefang currently existing on the Old World, an expertise in counterspelling, an belt crafted by the Runelord of the Age for when that fails and heal item for when that fails.

I'm worried about getting to the stab part, and I can't see what we gain from a successful stab?

We are a murder blender. We should have hunted down small fry, Mors and Eshin alike, leaving their Elites no choices but engaging each other, if we fought at all. This is pitching our strenght vs. the single most likely target where we are the weaker stealth character.
And if we succeed, what do we gain? A weakened Eshin, that is less trouble for Mors to crush. Meaning more Mors Elite left to charge our defense.

No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
extend the mors/eshin stalemate, with greater chance of a Mors victory, which is easier for the dwarfs to deal with, as Mors are straightforward to fight.
 
So, Realms of Sorcery and the Chaos Books and taken as canon gospel again, more or less like I was expecting. =/

Specifics would be nice though I'd still be skeptical, because if it's Manfred going on about how much he knows about magic and the soul, or other in-character documents, or from that guy visiting all the Chaos Realms (hope he doesn't go mad and vanish mysteriously) just... yeah. Somebody stating a fact as if they believe it to be totally true, is indeed unambiguous. But that just means that their statement, or their belief, is unambiguous.

There's also the simple fact that world-building, story-telling, and canon itself is kind of... eh. Call it malleable if you want. But like. Everybody brings up everything from every edition, of RPG and TT, and argues over it, and... Overall, there's a very use-it-as-a-toolbox approach to things.

How to put this... ... I'd put a lot of weight on stuff like "The Empire exists" and "The War of Vengeance happened, and Elves and Dwarfs are on pretty tough terms" and "There's High, Dark, and Wood Elves" and "The Old World nations that're around are..." as being hard strong canon; things that the setting not only revolves around, but always works with. Always mentions or brings up. It's the sort of thing that, when you read or play or write a story or quest in it, you're probably basing it on and working with.

Stuff about metaphysics and such, is always more questionable and theoretical and so on. Because it's an academic question and not one that is always relevant to most games or daily life. Except, by being an obscure academic question, it's super-popular among people for always bringing it up again and again and again...
To be precise, the authorial, narrative voice of Realms of Sorcery calls out Asuryan as being "a manifestation of Elven dignity, culture, and self-belief". (p19)

What the book says about other gods working this way is not authorial, instead with IC citations like 'ascribed to Teclis' (without date, location or context), or put in the mouth of people such as Volans, who is much more speculative:

"If all Gods and Daemons are manifestations of the mortal world's thoughts, dreams, and feelings, then could this not explain why they react so readily to the faith of those who worship them? Could it be that some or all of the Gods actually need the faith of mortals to maintain their unique identities? They could be drawn to particularly strong demonstrations of faith, both to feed off of it and to encourage even greater levels of faith in the believer." (p55, bold mine, IC citation Volans' Third Letter to the Colleges of Magic)
 
No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
We remove a magical asset from the board of our opponents. This evens the odds more towards Mors and makes it more likely that Mors succeeds in beating Eshin which means that should we eliminate the rest of Mors, no skaven clan will be leaving these mountains.
 
No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
It's because Mors were on the back foot, and with a Dragon already breathing down their necks they could be dangerously close to routing. With evening the odds a bit we're hoping that they'll be pushing for Eshins shelter and not back to the under-caldera.
Though I will admit I voted to cordon the mountain off and wash our hands of this.
 
Well, let's think of it this way:

If that roll did had ended up being a Verminlord? Then that's the gutsiest son of a bitch to ever have Skaven'd, if he were in the middle of betraying that!

Seriously, how gutsy do you have to be to be willing to betray a Verminlord? Though admittedly, his betraying actions would probably be shifted to make sense in light of the outcome. So that, for a Greater Daemon, the result might be something like "Sod this, I'm not dying here! Time to run like hell!" and he flees the battlefield entirely. So the betrayal is just deciding to not stick around and fight to the death on the orders of the Verminlord. Whereas for other options, it might be an actual backstab, or lying, or something.

Not necessarily. The Hysh using emperor dragon is in the same mountain. "Right this way oh great-mighty-magnificent daemon yes-yes stand right there-there."
 
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