There is still no good reason to stab the Eshin sorcerer.
I'm not worried about the stab part. Mathilde is master swordswoman with the closest thing to a Runefang currently existing on the Old World, an expertise in counterspelling, an belt crafted by the Runelord of the Age for when that fails and heal item for when that fails.
I'm worried about getting to the stab part, and I can't see what we gain from a successful stab?
We are a murder blender. We should have hunted down small fry, Mors and Eshin alike, leaving their Elites no choices but engaging each other, if we fought at all. This is pitching our strenght vs. the single most likely target where we are the weaker stealth character.
And if we succeed, what do we gain? A weakened Eshin, that is less trouble for Mors to crush. Meaning more Mors Elite left to charge our defense.
No seriously, what could we possible get from this, excepting critical successes resulting traits, that is worth the risk?
additionally, thanks to the master/apprentice teaching style of the skaven, removing a font of experience and magical knowledge from clan eshin is a always going to be a positive for the rest of the world.
You know thinking about it, the Eshin Sorcerer betraying a Loyal Council Agent does make a lot of sense. With how chaotic the current situation is odds are that someone within Clan Eshin could probably get away with it by pinning the death on.....like half a dozen different things at this point.
As for what the Sorcerer gains, that is just a guess that I have no idea about.
You know thinking about it, the Eshin Sorcerer betraying a Loyal Council Agent does make a lot of sense. With how chaotic the current situation is odds are that someone within Clan Eshin could probably get away with it by pinning the death on.....like half a dozen different things at this point.
As for what the Sorcerer gains, that is just a guess that I have no idea about.
additionally, thanks to the master/apprentice teaching style of the skaven, removing a font of experience and magical knowledge from clan eshin is a always going to be a positive for the rest of the world.
To be precise, the authorial, narrative voice of Realms of Sorcery calls out Asuryan as being "a manifestation of Elven dignity, culture, and self-belief". (p19)
What the book says about other gods working this way is not authorial, instead with IC citations like 'ascribed to Teclis' (without date, location or context), or put in the mouth of people such as Volans, who is much more speculative:
"If all Gods and Daemons are manifestations of the mortal world's thoughts, dreams, and feelings, then could this not explain why they react so readily to the faith of those who worship them? Could it be that some or all of the Gods actually need the faith of mortals to maintain their unique identities? They could be drawn to particularly strong demonstrations of faith, both to feed off of it and to encourage even greater levels of faith in the believer." (p55, bold mine, IC citation Volans' Third Letter to the Colleges of Magic)
Thank you for tracking that down and posting it. Thank you very much. This is both helpful and illuminating, and it even gives us something to grasp with.
I think I've actually seen that bit before somewhere sometimes, actually. Or remembered it somewhat. So it's about what I thought or remembered it would be. Whereas posters usually speak with much greater surety than that... (And I usually go 'But does it really?' And get 'Yes, really.' 'Okay but where?' 'In the book.' So thanks for tracking down relevant stuff and sharing it.)
This being a loyal Council Agent... He was probably egging them on to risk their lives to finish off Mors, perhaps? To which the Eshin had finally had enough of their shit. Because they value their lives more than dying for the cause. Especially when there's a freaking Emperor Dragon about. And there are thousands more enemies in Karak Eight Peaks that might finish off Mors. So why should they die for this?
Not necessarily. The Hysh using emperor dragon is in the same mountain. "Right this way oh great-mighty-magnificent daemon yes-yes stand right there-there."
No point in relitigating a called vote whose results are still in progress. After we see the results, feel free to do an after-action analysis though. I think more votes could benefit from some hindsight.
You know, assuming we are following this correctly, we may have just saved the life of a loyal council agent. How hilarious would it be if we got a similar reward as the elves gave us? Highly unlikely, I know, but it's a funny thought.
[*] Strike against Clan Eshin
- [*] ESHIN: Attempt to assassinate their Sorcerer.
If Eshin win, you reason, they will probably leave. All well and good. But though Eshin might not seek to make Eight Peaks theirs, other factions in the Under-Empire will almost certainly seek to fill what they see as a void, and they will be a greater threat for the information that Eshin might provide to them. So despite the immediate threat that Mors might present if they win and try to return to the Trench, it's a lesser evil than Eshin arming the entire Under-Empire with what they might know of the Karak and its inhabitants. So you leave the Cavern of Stars once more to slip into Karag Yar, this time to hunt a being with a skillset very similar to your own.
You had estimated perhaps an hour left in this final desperate duel, but either you erred greatly or things went sideways in an incredible fashion the moment you took your eyes off the Skaven, because the remains of what looks like at least half of the Albino Stormvermin battalion are scattered throughout about a quarter of the Under-Karag, some half-eaten and some still sizzling as Eshin poisons burn their way through flesh. Some of those poisons are chemical in nature, while some have already begun to break down into the Dhar they were created from. Through this grim spoor you track your quarry, cloaked in as little Ulgu as possible to keep your Magesight clear. The Eshin blend of Dhar and Ulgu leaves a distinct tang in the air, but between Dhar dissolving and Ulgu dissipating it's hard to extract more information than 'he was here'. Hard, but not impossible. Not for you.
Through a zig-zagging path through the smallest of passages, some so narrow you have to fall back on the intangibility of Substance of Shadow to follow, the Sorcerer split from the rest of the Eshin right on the cusp of victory, which sets your suspicions ablaze.
With Aethyric Armour stealing away your fatigue you make your way through the Karag at speed without jeopardizing your stealth, sling-shotting your way around skirmishes so that the sounds of desperate combat mask your footfalls. Whatever the Sorcerer is up to, you want to know as much as you can as soon as you can. Perhaps this is something you'd need to strike early to prevent, perhaps you'd be best served by letting it play out. Most likely it will be some murky blend of the two. You make good time and it seems like the Sorcerer got held up by a battle that he decisively ended, and by the time the Sorcerer arrives at what appears to be his destination you're so close that you can practically taste the ambient Dhar clinging to him. You enter the cavern mere seconds after him and settle into a niche in the wall, your form camouflaged, invisible and intangible on the assumption that there's no such thing as too many precautions against Eshin, and let your Magesight do the work while your mundane eyes adapt to the darkness.
Flanked by a pair of Stormvermin is a robed Skaven that stands taller than either of his bodyguards, his body so festooned with warpstone jewellery that he shines like a befouled lighthouse to your Magesight, and it is to he that the Sorcerer approaches, chittering what seems like a greeting with false deference, his mind roiling with the anticipation of battle, and you curse your inability to understand spoken Queekish. A document of some sort is handed over, and the robed Skaven produces what looks like a glass bead containing a sphere of unrefined warpstone, spilling green light over the document and illuminating his form, and emblazoned upon his robe in golden thread is the thirteen-pointed wheel symbol of the Council of Thirteen.
Unable to understand their conversation, you instead pick apart their mental states. The Sorcerer is simple enough, mostly Ulgu with a little Aqshy as he savours the moment before an unexpected attack. The other Skaven is more focused, Chamon buzzing in his mind as he analyzes the document and barks questions at the Sorcerer, but underneath that is a touch of rancid divinity. His soul bears the marks of what must be the Horned Rat, and a tendril of it is rooted deep within his mind. The two bodyguards are mentally barely there, but in a way that suggests discipline instead of stupidity, as stupid Skaven would be confused by the conversation rather than very carefully ignoring it. So many unknowns. What is the agent's role here? What would best serve the Karak? Should the Sorcerer still die? Should this apparent agent of the Council die? Should you abort the entire attempt since Mors seem on the verge of extinction, or should you do your best to allow them to seize victory from the jaws of defeat?
[ ] Both must die.
- [ ] Attack them both now.
- [ ] Attack them both just as the Sorcerer strikes.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then finish off whoever survives.
[ ] The Sorcerer must die.
- [ ] Attack before the Sorcerer does.
- [ ] Attack just as the Sorcerer does.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then attack the weakened Sorcerer if he survives.
[ ] The Council Agent must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer try, and finish the job if he fails.
- [ ] Strike the Agent down before the Sorcerer has a chance to.
[ ] Both should live.
- [ ] Attack both, but let them both get away.
- [ ] Cause enough noise and chaos nearby to spook them and prevent any attacks.
[ ] Don't intervene.
- [ ] Leave immediately.
- [ ] Watch the attack play out, then leave.
[ ] Other (write in)
- I normally avoid re-litigation, but there's enough new facts on the board that it's a lesser evil compared to locking you in to a decision you made earlier. Narrative pacing and player agency were at cross-purposes and I chose the latter. If you disagree with the choice I have made, I request that you do not post that disagreement.
- There will be a two hour voting moratorium.
- Unless 'both must die' is chosen, Mathilde will attempt to leave whoever is not her target alive, but will not risk her life to do so if they press an attack.
very much so, and without the rule of 2. After all, Two Is War
Children of the Horned Rat page 77 said:
Knowledge of these spells is taught from master to apprentice, and is carefully protected amidst the ambition and treachery prevalent among all Skaven. Though a master might teach the rudiments of Warp Magic, he does so grudgingly, as his student must eventually contest his power and perhaps even try to overthrow him. Thus, Skaven mentors are careful to instil fear and respect in their apprentices and to play favourites, always working to pit one student against another to distract these treacherous pupils from betraying their master.
You know, assuming we are following this correctly, we may have just saved the life of a loyal council agent. How hilarious would it be if we got a similar reward as the elves gave us? Highly unlikely, I know, but it's a funny thought.
You know, assuming we are following this correctly, we may have just saved the life of a loyal council agent. How hilarious would it be if we got a similar reward as the elves gave us? Highly unlikely, I know, but it's a funny thought.
Hmm, well... The other really interesting thought about the roll result, looking at it in a low-bad-high-good view? Low is not just 'Holy shit dangerous' and high 'Not dangerous'... It can also be a measure of 'Does this person make for a good source of intel?'
To which: a Verminlord would be impossible to capture. A Grey Seer would be really hard, because it's a powerful spellcaster. A Financier might not know all that much. An unloyal Council Agent would not be as trusted and would be more out for himself. A loyal Council Agent or a personal Agent of Paskrit? They would know more and more.
So, the higher roll is not just 'You are not utterly boned in this fight', it might also be a question of 'How much intel opportunity is there here?'
... Wait. Hah. Didn't we steal some intel on the Civil War? It'd be amusing if, due to the roll results, BoneyM decides to tie those things together!
The Council Agent is confronting the Sorcerer because he thinks he or she, or somebody, stole the papers. And the Sorcerer naturally did steal them for a bit once and is panicking because he thinks he's being found out... and so thinks he has to get his strike in first.
And all this because Mathilde wanted to loot some books.
I think we should let the sorcerer attack and then kill whoever lives. They are going to be weakened. To use Skaven numerology, they think 'two is war' but Mathilde is the hidden third.
So... do we actually have any reason to let either of them live? My first instinct is to let the Sorcerer make his move and then gank whoever's left, but if someone has a compelling argument not to I'm open to being convinced.
A document of some sort is handed over, and the robed Skaven produces what looks like a glass bead containing a sphere of unrefined warpstone, spilling green light over the document and illuminating his form,
An important document of some sort. My guess would be that it has something to do with the Mors-Pestilens partnership. A contract perhaps, stolen from Sleek, or simply a summary of Eshin's findings?
[ ] Both must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then finish off whoever survives.
[ ] Don't intervene.
- [ ] Watch the attack play out, then leave.
either or.
Mors is finished there's fuck all we can do to Eshin now as Mors crit failed out of existence. So we can't mop them up easily. We should probably just leave.
Woof... Somehow I'm really grateful that we chose this option. The opportunity to take out a Council Agent, or rather, ensure that a Council Agent is taken out, could be worth it.
Council Agent die > Eshin held responsible > Council "censured" Eshin > One less clan in K8P
Rather optimistic prediction and I have no idea if we should leave the Sorcerer alive or not, but for fuck's sake kill the Council Agent. Horned Rat's zealot needs to die fast.
All in all, I'm leaning more on this option:
[ ] Both must die.
- [ ] Attack them both just as the Sorcerer strikes.
Better chance of whatever ritual it was fucking up if Mathilde interrupt it as soon as it's in progress. At the right place, at the right time as Ranald would say.
[ ] Both must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then finish off whoever survives.
[ ] Don't intervene.
- [ ] Watch the attack play out, then leave.
either or.
Mors is finished there's fuck all we can do to Eshin now as Mors crit failed out of existence. So we can't mop them up easily. We should probably just leave.
Should you abort the entire attempt since Mors seem on the verge of defeat, or should you do your best to allow them to seize victory from the jaws of defeat?
Actually, if we let the Sorcerer attack and then mop up the survivors, it'll look like Eshin betrayed the Council and murdered their official agent. This is how you drag out civil wars. If they're unlucky, the Council might assume that Eshin is trying to side with Pestilens and Mors, in a bid for power.
You had estimated perhaps an hour left in this final desperate duel, but either you erred greatly or things went sideways in an incredible fashion the moment you took your eyes off the Skaven, because the remains of what looks like at least half of the Albino Stormvermin battalion are scattered throughout about a quarter of the Under-Karag, some half-eaten and some still sizzling as Eshin poisons burn their way through flesh.
[ ] Both must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then finish off whoever survives.
Reasoning unchanged. We're trying to prevent information from going out to the Skaven, and whatever report was delivered to the Council Agent is unlikely to be beneficial to us.
But no reason to take the risk when we can have the sorceror take the risk then kill the winner.
[ ] The Sorcerer must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer's attack play out, then attack the weakened Sorcerer if he survives.
On the other hand, if the report was just that Mors is broken, then it might be useful to let them get away with that information so the Underempire has no reason to come back.
[ ] The Council Agent must die.
- [ ] Let the Sorcerer try, and finish the job if he fails.
Council involvement can't be good, so denying them information and resources is in our favor generally.
[ ] Both should live.
- [ ] Attack both, but let them both get away.
- [ ] Cause enough noise and chaos nearby to spook them and prevent any attacks.
Umm...well I suppose its technically a valid option. Beats me WHY though.
[ ] Don't intervene.
- [ ] Watch the attack play out, then leave.
Cold feet.
But I think if the Sorceror thinks he can kill the Agent, then odds are good that we could too, especially if they're weakened.
