Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The fact that it's illegal is enough, that's not a law we should break for anything less than cancelling an apocalypse.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The fact that it's illegal is enough, that's not a law we should break for anything less than cancelling an apocalypse.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Its actually really simple: Black Magisters use Dhar and spells from the Lore of Necromancy and the Lore of Dhar (Second and First secret). Mathilde really hates Black Magisters. Doing something that makes her a Black Magister would mess her up because its becoming undeniably something she hates.
Its not even about the Dhar, since that's been basically invalidated. Its the act of choosing to use it which is actually a problem for a lot of people, myself included.
No, I understood that perfectly. My point was "give me more rewards (even for actions that only incidentally helped you)" does not sound very protector themed. ESPECIALLY when it comes at the cost of using one of the coin faces that actually improve the chance of success.
If anything, I'd expect the protector to do something like ensure accusations of wrongdoing spread like wildfires
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's because its not about protecting people. It is pretty straightforwardly about self aggrandizement to the common man since that's a component of the larger Protector facet.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I could see Kislev suffering from a Yhetee problem. While they're not the best one on one fighters, they're really hard to spot in the snow and combined with the fact they're as fast as an armored horse, it'd be a pain to catch them before they've ran of. So Kislev trying to hire a Celestial/Beast/Fire mage(s) to track and kill a yhetee could be possible. That said I can't imagine a magister asked to deal with a singular Yhetee instead of a seeing if a couple of journeymen would be interested in helping out.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Might be an Ice Beast (Like some kind of big gnarly ice Thing), or a particularly intelligent Yhetee.
- Location
- California
I highly doubt it. I don't think even the Grand Theologist, Al-Ulric or equivilents can chat their patron god up on a whim. Even after mugging Mork, Ranald did not actually speak to us.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Good point.
Thanks, I'll fix this.
Fixed to 3+.
You know, I want to follow the example of Algard and his famous Screaming Towers.
We should publish an abridged version of the Liber Mortis.
Strip out the Secrets and the spells to leave a diary examining in exquisite detail just what a fantastically, incredibly, stupendously stupid idea it is to use Dhar.
Then we print 'unabridged' copies that include the spells, except subtly altered such that they invariably result in a catastrophic miscast.
…might need to use a pen name and some OpSec to avoid unwanted questions.
We should publish an abridged version of the Liber Mortis.
Strip out the Secrets and the spells to leave a diary examining in exquisite detail just what a fantastically, incredibly, stupendously stupid idea it is to use Dhar.
Then we print 'unabridged' copies that include the spells, except subtly altered such that they invariably result in a catastrophic miscast.
…might need to use a pen name and some OpSec to avoid unwanted questions.
- Location
- USA
I got that part. I'm perfectly fine with people dropping by and using our facilities.
Making an official branch, at least to me, implies additional administrative duties and maybe apprentaces. Both of those are additional commitments on our time.
Last edited:
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
He uses it for battle scenes where, well, the larger battle would make a good fit for a tabletop encounter and we're clashing with enemy units and heroes, like when we took the East Gate:
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!
As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Successfully found the relevant quotes:
So tabletop certainly seems to still be in use, we justhaven't had situations where boney would actually use them; the only 'both sides are aware of each other and only want to destroy' fights were the truly big ones like the last K8P fight, where it was frankly too large scale for the tabletop, with thousands upon thousands of troops in open battle
- Location
- Canada
Boney has been clear on this, the Second Secret is no mere dispel, it is explicitly Dhar manipulation
You are no longer chucking rocks or slashing tires to cause the vehicle that is the opposing sorcerers spell to crash, you are physically taking a hold of the wheel and guiding it, controlling it
Now you could argue that unraveling Dhar is less exposure than shaping it, but you have made contact all the same, and any manipulation of Dhar at all requires the mindset
You can hopefully circumvent the mindset by using another Wind as tongs, combining the Second Secret with the secret of Dhar manipulation using a Wind
But that's really difficult, trying to seize control of an opponents spell enough to exert control and unravel it is hard enough considering the spell is made of metaphysical evil, but now imagine trying to unravel a rope but you aren't allowed to physically touch it, and it hates you
Last edited:
[ ] Loremaster: Expert on Forest Spiders
Likely to be biased.
[ ] Loremaster: Expert on weaving
Likely to be looking for profit.
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
Probably the best choice.
[+] The Wizards of Karak Eight Peaks (locked in)
[X] Francesco Caravello, proud leader of the Undumgi
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, as the new home of the Winter Wolves takes shape.
Standard check in with the locals choice.
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.
Ulthar is my favourite.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
Too interesting to ignore.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[X] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.
Spend time with our friends.
[X] Julia
Write-in. Because we've ignored her for basically forever.
Additionally, what will Mathilde end up doing with her new dragon skull?
[X] On display in the Duckling Club.
[X] Build it into the entrance to the Penthouse.
Obviously we've got to show it off.
It's definitely amusing how much people seem to want to spend time with Roswita now.
Likely to be biased.
[ ] Loremaster: Expert on weaving
Likely to be looking for profit.
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
Probably the best choice.
[+] The Wizards of Karak Eight Peaks (locked in)
[X] Francesco Caravello, proud leader of the Undumgi
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, as the new home of the Winter Wolves takes shape.
Standard check in with the locals choice.
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.
Ulthar is my favourite.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
Too interesting to ignore.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[X] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.
Spend time with our friends.
[X] Julia
Write-in. Because we've ignored her for basically forever.
Additionally, what will Mathilde end up doing with her new dragon skull?
[X] On display in the Duckling Club.
[X] Build it into the entrance to the Penthouse.
Obviously we've got to show it off.
It's definitely amusing how much people seem to want to spend time with Roswita now.
Last edited:
Okay! I have finally caught up! Time to vote!
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
Best choice in my eyes.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
Holy shit and all that but I also really want to meet this girl, we need to know if she like romance novel and will help us with our mission to find Anton a girl he can love!
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
We need to keep put almost daughter from having a mental breakdown and reverting on all the work we did helping her perception of Wizards.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
I want to meet Ungrim cause he is awesome and this is one of the few major Karaks we haven't visited yet.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
Grandpa Kragg is awesome and I want to continue our relationship with the cool old guy.
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
I have always gotten the picture we were only a little effort away from being good friends and come on! romantic gossip! That is so "Miss Romance Novel" Mathilde. especially when it is a fellow enthusiast living the dream!
[X] Write In: Give the dragon skull to Kragg as a thank you gift for crafting your sword.
I anyone deserve a dragon skull anything it is Kragg the Grim.
@BoneyM is this a valid option for the skull?
You mentioned it was entirely aesthetic but you didn't say we had to use it for ourselves and we gain no mechanical benefit from giving it to Kragg as a gift. I don't expect to win with my vote so late but I feel like giving him a respected and rare crafting material obtained in the first use of his masterwork sword from a shoddy craftsman who couldn't make proper use of it in a gesture of thank is appropriate. At least I think so?
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
Best choice in my eyes.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
Holy shit and all that but I also really want to meet this girl, we need to know if she like romance novel and will help us with our mission to find Anton a girl he can love!
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
We need to keep put almost daughter from having a mental breakdown and reverting on all the work we did helping her perception of Wizards.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
I want to meet Ungrim cause he is awesome and this is one of the few major Karaks we haven't visited yet.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
Grandpa Kragg is awesome and I want to continue our relationship with the cool old guy.
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
I have always gotten the picture we were only a little effort away from being good friends and come on! romantic gossip! That is so "Miss Romance Novel" Mathilde. especially when it is a fellow enthusiast living the dream!
[X] Write In: Give the dragon skull to Kragg as a thank you gift for crafting your sword.
I anyone deserve a dragon skull anything it is Kragg the Grim.
@BoneyM is this a valid option for the skull?
You mentioned it was entirely aesthetic but you didn't say we had to use it for ourselves and we gain no mechanical benefit from giving it to Kragg as a gift. I don't expect to win with my vote so late but I feel like giving him a respected and rare crafting material obtained in the first use of his masterwork sword from a shoddy craftsman who couldn't make proper use of it in a gesture of thank is appropriate. At least I think so?
Last edited:
You! You're the one to blame for that idea.
p)Or perhaps not purely an experiment so much as a... Hm. An experiment by both Vlad and Van Hal. Midway your friends gets cancer, and you wonder whether to perform the vampirism now or let it play out fully to study cancer as much as possible, like you'd intended from the start...
"Okay. Okay. Got it. Next time I ever meet a mortal I like or think I could trust with Necromancy, I'll turn them into a Vampire before anything happens..."
I think he wasn't thinking about vampirism to solve Van Hal's problem yet, or maybe he hadn't become as close a friend to Van Hal until halfway through the process, and then he wasn't sure what he should do; should he let things play out, or should he turn him now while he still had some sanity? And then he, or perhaps they, decided to keep going and see what would happen to him as a full human.
Or, yes, he was doing an experiment and seeing what might happen.
And then...
And then he probably went a little too far all-in on Vampirism. It probably started as sounds-like-a-good-idea here and there. First, grant immortality to your loved one, because of course. Then, grant immortality to the ruling nobles because they're the government and administration of the land, it only helps, and besides this way you get political influence over them. Also, Sylvania is kind of a deathly and warpstone-tainted place sooo. And before you know it, you're raising the flag and joining the Age of Three Emperors battle royale, and you've founded a lineage that will be a blight upon Stirland for the next millennium. I'm sure this came as a surprise to everyone.
...
What gets me though, is that he concluded that no mortal would be able to handle necromancy, right? But vampires don't do so hot either, don't they? They're affected by dhar and Necromancy mindsets and sheer age and the vampiric condition too. So, if you are sane enough to care about mental effects and mental influence in the people you're going to turn... how do you end up with Mannfreds and Konrads? Or, how do you wind up with such people, but then not deal with them after they wind up showing insanity?
Did Vlad have an uncommon resistance to Necromancy and warpstone and vampiric sheer age social effects or something? Possibly the ring, or being one of the first vampires? One that ended up being shared with the one he was closest to, Isabella, due to sheer proximity? But not any of the other Von Carsteins descended from him. So maybe he was expecting people to have greater resilience to the vampiric condition -- and age; because he himself was really old, and he handled it fine, right? -- but was proved wrong because he had a bit of an advantage compared to others.
Or do he just not care, so long as people he was close to -- or who are useful as administrators and nobility and lieutenants and battle wizards -- are kept immortal?
So he winds up turning people, thinking they'll be functional. Or maybe thinking that they'll be useful; he can just maintain control over them all the time. But he only manages to keep control over them as long as he is around. And even then, those like Konrad were... yeah. And then when he shuffles off the stage, there's nobody to exert any restraint over them at all.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Yes. This isn't a legal technicality, it's a spell-typing, the same way our spells are Ulgu. We get Lore of Dhar XP for casting this thing, so it is black magic.
Ignore any metaphors about cars and tire slashing or wheel grabbing; It's the same sort of spell as raising a skeleton or shooting Space Stingy Eye Rippers, it just backstabs other Dhar users instead of doing anything actually cool.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Can anyone remind me who this one is again?
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's not that I love Roswita; it's that I value and honor Abelhelm. Part of that means respecting his values and the things that were important to him.
So I want her to be ok, because he would want her to be ok, and I want to talk to her about her father so she understands what he meant to us, and so she can feel some iota of connection to the man who hid her and her siblings away and seems to have had barely any contact with them for their protection. She should know more about what her father's devotion to his duty bought, and benefit from one of those things: our loyalty.
- Location
- Canada
Certainly, she's the woman who pretended to be a vampire, supposedly at least
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
She is the lady that pretended to be a vampire to other vampires for years. Pretended to be a vampire but on our side when we visited her town during the purging of the Haunted Hills. Now she is the empress.
- Location
- Australia
She was Countess of a city beseiged by undead during the Purge, who was all "I'm totally not a Vampire, wink wink." but actually turned out to not be a vampire and had some involvement in the conspiracy that caught our Master and thus us, sending us to Stirland in the first place. I think she was on the list of people to be purged that Abelhelm left to us, but she disappeared in the aftermath and this is the first time she has popped back up, and as a favoured of Ranald to boot. Part of why I voted for a private chat with her is to find out how she goes from fleeing the Grey Wizards to the Emperor's consort.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Oh come on. That's such a collosal cop out that doesn't change the actual facts. We're currently skating by on such a technicality that we'd be executed anyways and we had other methods to remove the Liber Mortis from play, that doesn't change the fact it's a breach of trust we knowingly went into. We read the Liber Mortis because we considered the breach in trust and the price of discovery worth the information and our ability to do good with it. Full Stop. Trying to argue that there's a difference just because we haven't cast a single spell is cowardice. We betrayed the standards Imperial Wizards are meant to be held to because we thought it was worth it to do our job. That's okay. Trying to ignore that fact by hiding on technicality when every single time Boney has acknowledged it he's also said no one would defend it or acknowledge it.
In the eyes of our family, the people who trust us to do the right thing, as far as they're concerned we didn't. We didn't in such a way that if it ever comes to light fuels the condemnation that our kind face every day and declares the Greys aren't capable of policing themselves. Something they're immensely invested in. Refusing to acknowledge that because of a piece of paper Mathilde has always paid lip service to is a disservice to her character. Our choices if caught are going to hurt a lot of people who don't deserve it anyways, refusing to go further is one thing, acting like the consequences have been in any real way been mitigating by not going further is another.
If we get found out, we'd at the very least have betrayed our Guild and lord. The only assumption I'm willing to make when it comes to Dwarfs and us getting outed is that they might be inclined to let us take the Slayer Oaths. Technicalities aside, we will still have shamed and betrayed our College, that took us in, taught us what we knew and raised us. People who explicitly by dint of us existing trusted us are going to have to live with the consequences of our choices. Of increased scrutiny and discrimination. Of giving every single person in power in power with a distaste for magic yet another excuse. I expect the Dwarfs to see the nuance in our actions, and to not be particularly appreciative of them.
Any expectation of remaining Dawongr needs to be tempered by that.
I argued she's alien to you or I- which by virtue of literally warping her mind towards an increasingly alien perspective is part of how her magical powers work is fundamentally a given. A wizard's thought processes become less and less human and Boney has in fact called out that she's not entirely human by this point. Moreover- the argument that no human can demonstrate sufficient judgement to observe themselves for biases and shifts in mental processes is an enormous statement to make you have yet to actually present evidence for.
Frederick literally casted for years on end and as he started to go he caught on to it. A far less intensive case of casting, with an understanding of the mental effects of Dhar that wasn't in existence at the time spread even further apart should let us be able to observe such changes and simply stop casting Dhar while exposing ourselves to environments counter to Dhar induced thought. Your insistence on reality's bearing on this without providing evidence or acknowledging to be a Warhammer Wizard is to literally adopt an inhuman mindset to channel magic does your argument no credit.
Edit: I'm done arguing this- I don't give a shit about using Dhar without immense pressure and need for it specifically. What I care about is a refusal to acknowledge the extent of our existing transgressions and use that as an excuse to hide it. We don't need to be Darth Mathilde to wronged others, regardless of our reasons.
Last edited:
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My take is that the important distinction is "mortal" in that line.
Vlad was already into the vampires are superior line of thought given where he came from and that line, so it may well have just not occurred to him that Vampires could be harmed by Dhar exposure. Mannfred and Konrad were thus in my mind cases of him either not caring or misjudging their character or simply not accounting for Dhar exposure making them cookoo kazoo.
- Location
- USA
I honestly don't think he considered his own death at all and, arguably, that's a justified line of thinking when you're as strong as he was with the ability to return from the dead every time you die. He was an amazing talent scout, whatever you say about Mannfred and Konrad you can't say they were not good at what they did. So long as Vlad lives, their other issues are not a problem because he can just shove them back in line.