Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Businessmanga]

Having completed the study of the Liber Mortis it is now our sacred duty as a (technically) necromancer to continue the tradition of making janky bad copies of spellbooks layered in spiteful traps, so any uppity adventurers that kill us don't get to benefit from our boss raid drops. (No don't!!!)

Mathilde's Malicious Miniature Mortis Manual. I'm sure I could fit more Ms on there but I'm tired haha.

e: Just keep trapping watered down copies and turning them in to the College for infinite favours!

 

[minerva-n-memes]

@BoneyM Is it possible to have a chat with Ranald during a social turn?

 

[Chimeraguard]

I don't know. I think a public Ranald Order would be a very good way to rehabilitate the image of the Protector.

Like, as far as I'm aware, Religious Knightly Orders mainly serve two purposes:
1. Act in the interests and specialties of their deity
2. Increase the public renown/membership of said deity

A Knightly Order going out there, protecting peasants from Beastmen or whatever, spreading the good deeds done in the name of Ranald, could be a very useful force for Ranald.

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IIRC, the issue is that Ranald's current reputation means people/the Empire won't accept a Templar Order devoted to him.

 

[BungieONI]

To be honest, the 'Smoke Knight' idea has some legs.

Claim it to be a secular order, train them in misdirection, sabotage, and guerilla warfare, give them enchanted cloaks with shadowcloak as a Bound Spell, and light chain forged so that it makes little noise, and secretly make them a Templar Order of Ranald.

We know there's precedent for Knights who have different focuses than the standard cavalry charge (Longshanks being the poster boys for it). Congratulations, you now have a discreet order of Not!Batmans who specialize in urban warfare.

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Could also riff them off the Sisters of Battle, in that their "official" remit is to track down wizard potentiates and get them to the colleges and murder witches and Dhar users very explicitly. Separating them from the more general remit of the Witch Hunter's "cultist and conspiracy" threats to the empire, these folks, who could be men or women, would be essentially an arm for the Grey Order to act as its militant chamber as they're WHF's closest Hereticus analog.

Mathilde has excellent knowledge in regards to spotting potentiates, having been one her self and knowing quite well the signs after her two decades of experience. And with all the knowledge she's gained recently she's also well positioned to tell them how to counter Necromancers and to identify them, even if they're armed with mundane tools. One big thing being the Full and Accurate Survey of the Haunted Hills.

 

[CuttleFish2.0]

[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.

[X] The best reading chair ever.
[X] A bathtub, an even better place for reading.

 

[Lealope]

We can just dead-drop the Liber Mortis with the Amethysts now that we've read it. If we ever have a hole in our schedule that can only be filled with Dhar research, we can spend a bunch of favor once we're a trusted Magister Lord to regain access to it for research purposes entirely above-board.

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No, I don't think we should let them know about the original Liber Mortis. I largely agree with the Cult of Sigmar's decision on this, the powers of this book are too dangerous for all but the most trusted to have. The hypothetical existence of Egrimm van Horstman is sufficient to stop me because proliferation of the First Secret would be the end of the world. I'm more than glad to take Gandalf's advice on this one: keep it secret, keep it safe.

You misunderstand.

Protector means that we can afford to take all the loot opportunities when they rise.

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That's cool but it also doesn't fit with the other faces at all.

Gambler: Gives us +20 to two rolls, making us luckier.
Deceiver: Autopasses deception checks, making us better at trickery
Night Prowler: Autopasses stealth checks in cities, making us better at theft
Protector: Tells people about the things we did, making us better at looting shit.

The other three faces make us better at the things they represent. The Protector just gives additional benefits for protecting people, assuming that my instant communication interpretation is wrong.

Not every war is going to be in a town, and Protector is the only one even remotely specced towards a fight.

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Not so, even if we're not in a town, the Gambler would still be better in a fight. Hell, the Deceiver has a lot of potential applications depending on the type of enemy we face. The Protector only improves the rewards of the fighting.

 

[knight_enemy]

[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.

 

[Mr Apollo]

@BoneyM, while the Great Deed covers the favour we earned for taking down Alkharad's operation, shouldn't we also have gotten College Reputation? Like, not favours, just higher standing within the Colleges of Magic.

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I imagine the entire thing is classified need-to-know. Outside of the Patriarchs, I doubt anybody knows of our involvement.

So, uh...

What are the odds that she's also not actually a Haupt-Anderssen?

I mean, first she pretended to be Sylvanian Vampire nobility... Next, she pretends to be Stirland nobility.

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Pretty good I would bet. I imagine that a bunch of pious thieves got jobs to sneak forged records into places to build her claim.

 

[BungieONI]

Protector: Makes us better at looting? Gives us rep?

The other three faces make us better at the things they represent. The Protector just gives additional benefits for protecting people, assuming that my instant communication interpretation is wrong.

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Here's Ranald's Protector face information from the Collection of Important Information threadmark.

And finally, there is the most thoroughly and enthusiastically suppressed face of Ranald: Ranald the Protector. He is the God of Freedom, of defending the defenceless, assisting the poor, and standing up for the rights of the common man. But when taken to extremes, he is also the God of revolution, equality, and democracy, and as such is a constant danger to the status quo of the Empire. He is worshipped by rabble-rousers, democrats, cells of would-be revolutionaries and groups of brigands that steal from the wealthy to give to the impoverished. These worshippers are much of why the worship of Ranald is outright forbidden in Bretonnia, and viewed with so much suspicion elsewhere.

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To take the Robin Hood angle, what was one of Robin Hood's traits? He was boastful and made no measure to hide what he was doing and everyone knew about him helping them.

Boney's mentioned before that it could be used while under an assumed identity, and that identity would gain the fame. This sort of thing endears the man or woman on the street to you, which is good for a Ranaldian who wants to be a local hero.

That's largely the point of the Protector face, to exemplify your heroic deeds for the sake of self-aggrandizement. To facilitate you being a Robin Hood figure. Or, just in general, a hero of high regard with the common man.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

There is also no true guarantee that even wielding Dhar with another Wind doesn't have corrupting mental effects as well, if less noticeable ones than the bugfuck madness people generally suffer from touching the bad stuff directly, we can't actually be sure that the mentality required to wield Necromancy is just Shyish mentality unless we actually try it, not even then actually since we aren't an Amethyst Wizard

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There's probably a big difference between necromancy and just poking at Dhar for experimentation or using the Second Secret.

One is sustaining Dhar spells the other is using tongs to basically fling the Dhar around a bit which seems relatively safe.


Now of course it isn't 120% safe but even regular magic isn't 120% safe.

My two cents is that between the belt and a ton of caution Mathilde can conduct research on Dhar in a sterile environment or potentially do stuff like blow up warpstone in Skaven weapons with a reasonable degree of safety, one sufficient to make the risks worth it.

This seems like a reasonable middle ground between never touching anything Dhar related and going too Dhar happy.



[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] The Amber College, to see how your donation of Lustrian eggs is going.

 

[chocolote12]

If Mathilde becomes a Black Magister, she's going to be kicked out of civilization. Ranald will probably kick us out, even, unless our reasons were really really good. Mathilde doesn't get to do that sort of thing with no consequences. Not even the slightest bit. Just using the Second Secret once is pretty much game over if anybody finds out. The Second Secret means becoming a Black Magister. It is using Black Magic directly, no takebacks.

The whole thing about being able to juggle Dhar, or throw around warpstone? That's not a get out of jail free card. It's a 'the thread will not lose control of Mathilde, who will devolve to a parody of what she once was' card.


Here it is, my take as hot as solar flame: It turns corruption from an instant game over, and thus a nonissue, into a legitimate storytelling element, because corruption that you can't take even a sip of without instantly dying is just death by another name.

Spoiler: My Rant

Look straight at Chaos. Nobody even makes jokes about becoming chaotic, because it's so grim and evil that it's just boring. It's literally the de facto and de jure corruption faction of the setting, but nobody in the thread has given it a serious first glance, much less a second, because there's simply nothing we could ever get from it. It fails instantly at every narrative point it's supposed to hit.

Remember back when we were talking about character flaws, and I got around to 'The thread feels the way Mathilde feels, so the thread is Mathilde, but Mathilde only feels the way the thread feels first, so Mathilde is the thread', this being why the thread exhibits a character flaw that our character possesses, even though in the setting it's detrimental to us?

Corruption is a thing that happens in Warhammer. People succumb to chaos, or pick up black magic and become witches and necromancers. Doing the first basically instantly kills you, you just walk around for a bit first being progressively more and more horrible. But that would never happen to a quest character. Not because they're super special or anything, but because they're not stupid. They like the evil shinies, those things are tempting, obviously, but when the choice is to live without the cool thing or grab it and instantly die it's never in doubt. This makes characters incorruptible supermen, incapable of doing that sort of evil. An entire element of roleplay is lost. Is being corrupted fun? No, it's a lose condition. But it is an interesting story element. The problem is that in Warhammer there is no nuance; if you touch it you're gone, and every player knows it.

So turn to the other corruption; Dhar. Evil on your own terms. But even then the players are canny. They know that Dhar is poison. It turns you into a shuffling troglodyte, a disgusting wretch in body and mind. And if there's one thing the characters like more than shinies, it's being able to feel good about themselves, physically and morally. We just had a vote about not getting shinies because we wanted to do our duty better, and literally hundreds of people turned out. If Dhar says you're evil, then you're crazy and evil, but the thread isn't. The thread still wants what it wants. The disparity pries the thread out of the character like a vaguely crab-ish thing out of their shell; they're no longer the thread, they're just some person the thread used to be.

Nobody wants to be forced to be evil, so Dhar is out. Or is it?

Give the thread an exception. A guarantee they can trust that they can get away with it. They can touch the badness, if they're quick, and quiet, and don't talk about it. They can have the coolness without losing the game. Temptation becomes possible again, because it's only a mindset, only a factor if we get caught. We can hold the bad thing, but still be good people, even if we know that no-one else would understand. But that's fine; we can keep secrets from others a lot easier than we can avoid being spiritually poisoned. It expands the stories BoneyM can tell, without railroading the thread into something they'd hate.

And even then we know that Mathilde will never turn to evil, not in a way she'd look and scoff at in disgust. She will never be like one of these ham-handed sadists bullying poor villagers for petty scraps. But she could be the sort of villain that says 'No, you fools, you don't understand', because that's the sort of villain that BoneyM could see the thread becoming, and being okay with becoming, without us losing our eerie synchronization with her. (Also, geothermal power is very respectable, and all the skulls are so that they don't get back up again and start causing trouble, we promise.)

it's about self-aggrandizement at the cost of being less effective a protector.

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If everybody knows you protected them, they'll give you more resources to protect them better. It lets you automatically gain otherwise difficult to acquire resources that you should be spending to make yourself a better protector on your own terms.

just poking at Dhar for experimentation or using the Second Secret.

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The Second Secret is as bad as necromancy. It's the same as raising a skeleton so that you can poke its weakpoints. It is black magic, just for the record.

 

[thepsyborg]

reasonable middle ground [...] Dhar

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These two things do not belong in the same book never mind the same sentence.

 

[Abhorsen]

I figured I would make a multi-action project page for us. Strikethroughs are progress we've made.

Just @ me if I'm missing something, there's a new plan, or something changes. If anything on this seems wrong, or can be refined, especially if we have WOG, @ me then as well.

DISCLAIMER 1: Plans listed here are not guaranteed to work how we expect them to, the Prereqs listed are not necessarily correct, etc. If this happens, don't blame BoneyM. Don't whine to BoneyM about how we 'deserve X cause we did A, B, and C'. This post is NOT WOG. if this page doesn't line up with thread canon, that's on me or the posters who designed the plans. If you can point to WOG contradicting parts of plans, please @ me so I can update.

DISCLAIMER 2: I do not necessarily endorse plans listed here, or even believe some of payoffs could happen. Plans are listed here based on there being vocal proponents of the plan in the thread.

Note: I've swapped from strikethroughs for payoffs to Bolded underlined, because it's easier to read, and we have those now. Strike throughs are kept for things in a todo part, such as pre-reqs/plan, etc.

Spoiler: Requirements for me to add Project/Plan

'Some' thread buy in, by which I mean at least 3 posters talk about doing the plan, or state that they approve it. Please @ me when this happens.

This is supposed to be a comprehensive list of possible plans we COULD use, not a road map of plans we must follow.

Plans like 'get X skill' won't be specifically listed, as they're too generic.

Finally, ones that can be done right now in a single action won't be listed, as those aren't long term. Just vote for them.

Spoiler: New or Active Plans

A plan is active if it has been advanced, whether intentionally or not, in the past in-game year (usually about 6 posts over 2 turns, not counting interludes), AND not basically completed. A plan is new if it was proposed in that time frame.

Research Projects Explored:
SNEK JUICE
WAYSTONES - Active

Spoiler: Research Projects

WAYSTONES
PREREQ: Time, ability to convince many to get onboard.
PLAN: Get Permission. Choose a place to study at: Lothlorien. Recruit Groups(Eonir, Asur, Asrai, Brettonia, Hag Witches, Jades, Light Order, Hedgefolk, Ice Witches, Runesmiths, Druuchi), Get more permission, Research: Discover and understand waystone network geography of the Old World. Restore conquered nexuses (Brass Keep, etc). Create a working tributary. Create a working waystone. Create a working waystone Nexus. Exploit the Waystone system to do some megaproject.

TIME: A lot
COST: ?
PAYOFF: Understanding of Waystones. Ability to build Waystones, Fixing the Old Worlds Dhar Problem (Sylvania (in progress), Kislev (in progress), Laurelorn (in progress), etc), International agreement.

SNEK JUICE
PREREQ: Snek box
PLAN(s): In no particular order: Take powerstone class. Investigate turning into powerstone equivalent. Talk to Kragg, or another dwarf about snek juice + runes, especially recharge. Study Snek Juice with runes. Study snek juice ourselves. Weaponize it. Use it on the coin, Build 8 Orbs of Sorcery. Create a Liminal Realm, Write book
TIME: 1 Action to create the 8 orbs of sorcery. 1 action to investigate Liminal Realm. 2 Actions to write the book on Aetheric Vitae.
COST: Studying costs Snek Juice. 40 CF for buying all 8 powerstones.
PAYOFF: Recharging of Ancestor Runes, Access to Dwarf Favor, Ranald has 2 daughters (one ID'd as Haletha), Orbs of Sorcery + college favor. Liminal Realm creation. Fame from book.

ULGU ASCENSCION
PLAN: Get more Arcane Marks. Train the Arcane Marks. Mess around and find out?
TIME: Currently we have 4 arcane marks. So 4 or 8 turns I'd say.
PAYOFF: Immortality? Transforming oneself into the embodiment of Ulgu.

SPIDER SILK
PREREQ: Education of spiders
PLAN: Get silk weaving capabilities. Teach Spiders to Trade. Then industrialize. Then trade with others.
TIME: Apparently infinite (jk?). Not our job no more.
COST: Lots of goats, though Orcs count also
PAYOFF: Crazy effects on global trade, access to spider silk for armor and wizard robes AND SHEETS, EIC makes bank, better bedsheets.

THEURGY
PREREQ: Worship of Ranald; Avatar?; Weird altar to Mannslieb
PLAN: Get a holy artifact. Study the coin. Figure out another way?
TIME: ?
COST: ?
PAYOFF: ??? In the search, we found that Ranald has daughters. One of the Daughters is Haletha.
NOTES: Stop looking at Ranald. We sacrificed a clue. Dead until we get a new divine artifact, or a willing priest, or divine energy + AV does something. We can explore the coin and the connection between us and Ranald, but no idea if it will help.

MAGIC TATTOOS
PREREQ: Learn Qhaysh for Qhaysh ones. Learn about tattooing and modifying the body. Learn about rituals.
PLAN(s): Figure out how to tattoo yourself, Figure out how to tattoo yourself with magic, then do it.
TIME: ?
COST: ?
PAYOFF: Magic bonuses of some sort?

LEARNING QUEEKISH AND RELATED THINGS
PREREQ: Captive Skaven, Stuff to Translate
PLAN(s): Continue to learn written Queekish by having Qrech translate stuff (Magic vocab is still needed). Eventually learn Spoken Queekish. Solve the scent problem, which got worse because of the smoke. Probably use Coin: Deceiver and Qrech's hatred of Mors to do this. Write up findings. Translate remaining documents. Write Dwarf Dictionary. Write Reikspiel dictionary. Learn Magic, Moulder Dialect, and Holy Dialect.
TIME: ?
COST: 0
PAYOFF: Can infiltrate Skaven settlements without sticking out badly. Can translate Queekish Documents, including Chaos Dwarf Book. Huge college payoff for translation of Queekish. Empire and Dwarves gain strategic advantage vs Skaven.

Spoiler: Small Projects

EVEN MORE AETHYRIC ARMOUR UPGRADE
PREREQ: Magic 8, maybe spider silk, better enchantment?, Battlemagic enchantment?, AV relevance?
PLAN: Get materials, then attempt to make the armor. Maybe use spider silk, AV, or windherder.
TIME: 1 turn minimum
COST: gold/favor for materials, maybe the Heldrake scales, classes on enchantment (one more available, I think), a powerstone
PAYOFF: Add extra bonuses (like fire protection or invisibility)? Upgrade our armor to always on, and including our mastery. Also upgrade protection again.
SYNERGY: With Spider Silk, it could look cooler. With Elventure, we might get Elven Armor, and look like this:

Spoiler: Elf Robes of Awesomeness

STAFF GET
PREREQ: Enchanting, Advanced Enchanting, Staff Turning Class, More Advanced Enchanting (optional), Even More Advanced Enchanting (optional), AV Enchanting (optional), Rune Class (optional)
PLAN: Get materials, then attempt to make staff.
TIME: 1 turn minimum
COST: 2/5/10 college favors for wood/metal/exotic ulgu material
PAYOFF: +1 magic, Reduced difficulty of mist/fog/miasma spells.

MATHILDE'S INSUBSTANTIAL SWORD TECHNIQUE
PREREQS: Branulhune, Shadow Dagger Mastery
PLAN: Develop sword style using the Rune of the Unknown's ability to 'blink' (momentum dump, guard bypass, quick-draw, hand switching, (improve action optional)). Then develop a new spell which is a sword variant of our Shadow Dagger Mastery that allows for a 'blinking' magic sword that can cut thru armor (has WOG approval here). Share this spell and sword style with the college.
TIME: 3ish? 1-2 Serentity turns for the paper(s) on the spell and sword style, 1 turn for teaching at the College.
COST: 0
PAYOFF: Cool sword style that's better at fighting. A new spell. College Favor. Mathilde's name on the college's signature sword style. College has a new method of fighting. Shadow Wizards really want swords with the Rune of the Unknown, so help out Dwarves more.

FINISH NON-BATTLE MAGIC SPELLS
PREREQ: Magic 5 to cast, magic 7 for reliability.
PLAN: Pay College favor to roll on every spell that's left.
TIME: 1 expected action.
COST: 2 college favor per instruction, plus extra to guarantee classes are open.
PAYOFF: The spells. We already got the completion bonus of extra magic, per WOG.

MAKE YOUR OWN MAGIC (ON PURPOSE THIS TIME)
PREREQ: Relevant Trait/Mastery, WOG approval
PLAN: Spend time working on it. See relevant info threadmark here.
TIME: Probably AP. This will be modified
COST: Probably nothing.
PAYOFF: The spell itself. College favor once shared.

SKILL
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Take class at college. Hire trainer. Teach yourself. Life experience (not dependable)
TIME: 2ish turns if we get a tutor (Seems like it can be 1 turn at the college)
COST: 1 favor/100gp per turn/Other trainer cost
PAYOFF: +1 in relevant stat, narrative benefit

ADVANCED SKILL
PREREQ: Basic Skill
PLAN: Take class at college. Hire trainer. Teach yourself. Life experience (not dependable)
TIME: 2ish turns if we get a tutor (We need 3 pts of 'Experience' for lack of a better term. I think we can get 2 per turn on a good roll, but am not sure. A citation would be nice.). Enchanting took 1 turn though, so maybe less?
COST: 1 favor/100gp per turn/Other trainer cost
PAYOFF: additional +1/+2 (depends) in relevant stat, narrative benefit, potential trait if core to Mathilde (rare)

Spoiler: Very Long Term Plans: Now with one that isn't insane!

YAGIGAKURE NO SATO: The Village Hidden Among Goats.
PREREQ: EIC
PLAN(s): Have the Hochlander setup a EIC headquarters there. Then build a place to teach people to spy (maybe dedicated to Ranald?)
TIME: ?
COST: Many EIC AP, probably.
PAYOFF: Ninja Village

STEAL FROM HASHUT
PREREQ: Theurgy
PLAN: Find out about Hashut Holy items, and where they are. Find a way to hide from a god. Find a way to transfer an object from one god to Ranald more safely. Get to where the holy item is, steal it, and make it to safety, then steal the power of the item for Ranald. Basically stealing power from Hashut using the aspect of Ranald the Night Prowler.
TIME: A lot.
COST: ?
PAYOFF: Loot from converted holy item. More power for Ranald. Hashut is lessened.
SYNERGIES: We've already Gambled power from Gork and Mork. This one is stealing using the Night Prowler aspect. Could we go for all four? Saving Skaven from the Horned Rat for the protector, and perhaps something else for the Deceiver?

KILL HORNED RAT
PREREQ: Theurgy?
PLAN: Figure out how to do this, or if it is even possible.
TIME: ?
COST: ?
PAYOFF: ???

Spoiler: [B]Plans Based on Major Favors/Boons/Great Deeds Owed[/B]

BOOK BOON
PREREQ: Royal Boon, Transcendent
PLAN: Get a massive library. Stock it with books (in progress). Advertise.
TIME: A while as it gets built. Time for books to trade with partner libraries.
COST: Royal Boon, Transcendent, Gold for even more books
PAYOFF: The World's Greatest Library

BECOME MAGISTER LORD
PREREQ: Become Magister, Great Deed(Optional)
PLAN: Finish learning non-battle magic (Kinda done). Then either wait for us to be considered (<5 turns is my guess, but that's been my guess for a while) or use the Great Deed.
TIME: Maybe not that long, but faster if we use a Great Deed.
COST: Maybe a Great Deed. Might have additional responsibilities.
PAYOFF: The title. Extra pay from the dwarves, as we go up a rank on their payscale. No tithe. Additional respect. Sweet access to extraplanar weirdness!

K8P MAGIC COLLEGE
PREREQ: Should have higher College Rep for this to work?, Great Deed
PLAN: Get Permission from Belegar (easy, if everything else is ready). Get Permission from College (Probably needs a Great Deed). Recruit other Magisters. Get local Wizards promoted, and convince them to stay.
TIME: The recruitment is probably the big factor. Also, the buildings. We have to do this ourselves, per WOG.
COST: A Great Deed. Many College Favors for magister recruitment and buildings. Also, probably dwarf favors.
PAYOFF: K8P has (more) wizards! Extra pay from the dwarves, as we go up a rank on their payscale as THE grandmaster, if not a grandmaster (It makes more sense in Khazalid apparently).(We hit grandmaster anyway!). An organization to run.

KNIGHTS OF RANALD
PREREQ: Become a knight, educate spiders, Great Deed
PLAN: Convert halflings to Ranald. Teach spiders and halflings to ride together. Teach them to be knights. Get permission to begin order (Great Deed).
TIME: The recruitment + training would be a number of years.
COST: A Great Deed. Many halfling favors. Many We favors.
PAYOFF: Knights of Ranald.

ELF EDUCATIONAL ADVENTURE
PREREQ: Invitation, time off work, complete spell book, get staff?, learn sword skill?, buff diplomacy?
PLAN(s): Go to Ulthuan, assist shadow warriors, kill many Druchii, learn from elves, get more invitations, earn elf Favour
TIME: 99 days (if I recall correctly), so about 3ish actions.
COST: The Invitation, and expenses to travel to Ulthuan.
PAYOFF: Learn a lot about magic and stealth. Find better teachers for magic and stealth. In with non-shadow warrior elves. Get Good.

Spoiler: Plans with a Death Sentence, and all of Omegahugger's plans just because

SECOND WIND VIA TONGS (USING DHAR)
PREREQ: Snek juice, Liber Mortis Read, Belt, Windherder
PLAN(s): See if it's possible to manipulate second wind thru Ulgu Tongs without creating Dhar. It's not possible without dhar.
TIME: ?
COST: Violating the articles.
PAYOFF: Access to second wind, probably at a lower ability than our Ulgu, which would use dhar. Eventual Madness.

SCREWING AROUND WITH DHAR/WARPSTONE/NECROMANCY
PREREQ: Liber Mortis Read
PLAN: Screw around with dhar. It's no big deal. Nothing bad can happen. We promise.
TIME: Anytime you want.
COST: Violating the articles, maybe getting caught, exile from the empire and maybe K8P. So nothing major.
PAYOFF: Power! Unlimited Power!
SYNERGY: With Abelhelm waifu plan

ABELHELM WAIFU
PREREQ: Screwing around with necromancy
PLAN: Confess our love. Marry him. Live happily ever after. After we resurrect his corpse.
TIME: Probably, and hopefully, quite a while.
COST: No cost is too great for true love!
PAYOFF: Abelhelm is best waifu!

Spoiler: Conquest Progress

RETAKE KARAK EIGHT PEAKS

RETAKE SYLVANIA

Last update 01/09/24

 

[adaer]

I imagine the entire thing is classified need-to-know. Outside of the Patriarchs, I doubt anybody knows of our involvement.

Click to shrink...

I'd imagine that it's pretty well known that we took down a vampire that was bothering Roswita. What that vampire was up to is likely the part that's classified.

 

[BungieONI]

If Mathilde becomes a Black Magister, she's going to be kicked out of civilization. Ranald will probably kick us out, even, unless our reasons were really really good. Mathilde doesn't get to do that sort of thing with no consequences. Not even the slightest bit. Just using the Second Secret once is pretty much game over if anybody finds out. The Second Secret means becoming a Black Magister. It is using Black Magic directly, no takebacks.

The whole thing about being able to juggle Dhar, or throw around warpstone? That's not a get out of jail free card. It's a 'the thread will not lose control of Mathilde, who will devolve to a parody of what she once was' card.


Here it is, my take as hot as solar flame: It turns corruption from an instant game over, and thus a nonissue, into a legitimate storytelling element, because corruption that you can't take even a sip of without instantly dying is just death by another name.

Spoiler: My Rant

Look straight at Chaos. Nobody even makes jokes about becoming chaotic, because it's so grim and evil that it's just boring. It's literally the de facto and de jure corruption faction of the setting, but nobody in the thread has given it a serious first glance, much less a second, because there's simply nothing we could ever get from it. It fails instantly at every narrative point it's supposed to hit.

Remember back when we were talking about character flaws, and I got around to 'The thread feels the way Mathilde feels, so the thread is Mathilde, but Mathilde only feels the way the thread feels first, so Mathilde is the thread', this being why the thread exhibits a character flaw that our character possesses, even though in the setting it's detrimental to us?

Corruption is a thing that happens in Warhammer. People succumb to chaos, or pick up black magic and become witches and necromancers. Doing the first basically instantly kills you, you just walk around for a bit first being progressively more and more horrible. But that would never happen to a quest character. Not because they're super special or anything, but because they're not stupid. They like the evil shinies, those things are tempting, obviously, but when the choice is to live without the cool thing or grab it and instantly die it's never in doubt. This makes characters incorruptible supermen, incapable of doing that sort of evil. An entire element of roleplay is lost. Is being corrupted fun? No, it's a lose condition. But it is an interesting story element. The problem is that in Warhammer there is no nuance; if you touch it you're gone, and every player knows it.

So turn to the other corruption; Dhar. Evil on your own terms. But even then the players are canny. They know that Dhar is poison. It turns you into a shuffling troglodyte, a disgusting wretch in body and mind. And if there's one thing the characters like more than shinies, it's being able to feel good about themselves, physically and morally. We just had a vote about not getting shinies because we wanted to do our duty better, and literally hundreds of people turned out. If Dhar says you're evil, then you're crazy and evil, but the thread isn't. The thread still wants what it wants. The disparity pries the thread out of the character like a vaguely crab-ish thing out of their shell; they're no longer the thread, they're just some person the thread used to be.

Nobody wants to be forced to be evil, so Dhar is out. Or is it?

Give the thread an exception. A guarantee they can trust that they can get away with it. They can touch the badness, if they're quick, and quiet, and don't talk about it. They can have the coolness without losing the game. Temptation becomes possible again, because it's only a mindset, only a factor if we get caught. We can hold the bad thing, but still be good people, even if we know that no-one else would understand. But that's fine; we can keep secrets from others a lot easier than we can avoid being spiritually poisoned. It expands the stories BoneyM can tell, without railroading the thread into something they'd hate.

And even then we know that Mathilde will never turn to evil, not in a way she'd look and scoff at in disgust. She will never be like one of these ham-handed sadists bullying poor villagers for petty scraps. But she could be the sort of villain that says 'No, you fools, you don't understand', because that's the sort of villain that BoneyM could see the thread becoming, and being okay with becoming, without us losing our eerie synchronization with her. (Also, geothermal power is very respectable, and all the skulls are so that they don't get back up again and start causing trouble, we promise.)

If everybody knows you protected them, they'll give you more resources to protect them better. It lets you automatically gain otherwise difficult to acquire resources that you should be spending to make yourself a better protector on your own terms.

The Second Secret is as bad as necromancy. It's the same as raising a skeleton so that you can poke its weakpoints. It is black magic, just for the record.

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Yeah, this says everything about my own opinions about a billion times better.

 

[kitsune9]

Scouting went really well and in fact everything went really well, I do kind of want a dragon bone beer mug but I also like the idea of a reading chair or bed. I'm going to vote for a bank vault though because where better to hide your valuables then with a dragon.

I'm interested in the forest spiders and this option will give us a better understanding of the cave spiders as a species and society if we wind up needing to switch teachers in the future. Also they should be willing to work with us on academic papers as well.

I'm interested in a lot of people

[X] Loremaster: Expert on Forest Spiders

[+] The Wizards of Karak Eight Peaks (locked in)
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Titus Muggins, who's returned to farming with every avenue of attack defended.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[X] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.
[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.

My add in's

[X] Gloat in a smug way talk to Julia about trade and surprises
[X] Visit Biderhoof to check on how they are doing
[X] Visit Heideck of the thieves guild to talk

Julia Dreams of Stirland as the trade nexus, guess what we've done, The Biderhoof elder all but adopted us and we like it there and I want to see in Heideck has anything planned for the shrine now that we've moved out.

[X] Canopy bed, except skull instead of canopy.
[X] The best reading chair ever.
[X] Seasoned Beer Keg
[X] Vault for special items
[X] A display case for vampire skulls

 

[Redshirt Army]

I figured I would make a multi-action project page for us.

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Very, very well done. I'll be referencing this when making turn plans.

 

[Alliterate]

That's largely the point of the Protector face, to exemplify your heroic deeds for the sake of self-aggrandizement. To facilitate you being a Robin Hood figure. Or, just in general, a hero of high regard with the common man.

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Or indeed "Loremaster Dawongr Mathilde Weber, acting on behalf of King Belegar of Karak Eight Peaks, please forward your gratitude accordingly"

 

[Garlak]

On the one hand, beekeeper would know how to deal with eusocial beings. On the other hand, beings are unintelligent; these are very much not. Would be approach them from the perspective of 'handling' or herding them?

The weaver could focus on the "they are crafters and working their craft" aspect of things. It's focusing on a craft, or guild, basically. And so, that might be really interesting.

And I actually agree with those who say that it would be un-Dwarflike to screw us over based on that. In fact if anything, maybe this could be an attempt to strike an economic alliance/partnership with Karak Eight Peaks weaving efforts and Karak Hirn's weaving efforts? If all goes well, that is.

The description of the tumors make me think of them warpstone 'pearls', though I don't think they will be useful apart from giving the answer on how the We handles warpstone.

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I wonder how they'd interact with Quintessence-filled prey. i.e. If we'd wind up with some kind of weird snakejuice 'pearls' instead.

...

@BoneyM, does this mean that you're confirming that Kasmir has fallen in the line of duty of safeguarding Stirland after all? Him being not part of Social List is now just apparent to me.

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Iiiit's possible that Kasmir deliberately went deep into eastern Stirland to remain incommunicado so that he couldn't receive orders from the Grand Theogonist to pull out of Stirland.

That he's, in short, remaining distant so that he can remain and do good, and to avoid receiving any orders to leave... It's also possible he was reassigned.

After all, he's under the same spoilered category as Regimand and Julia and the Amber journeywizards; former, fallen, and distant characters.

 

[ChronOblivion]

Can't find the original post, but the one about the narrative impact of "yeah sure, let's breach the Articles and practice the most forbidden uber-corrupting art because we have a shiny that makes us immune to the mystical consequences" being bleh is on point. Honestly, Kragg's Belt giving us a free ticket to do what Frederick did without the allegedly unavoidable insanity is just meh.

Violating the Articles for realsies is something I don't wanna do. Our legacy must be secure, not to be tainted with Oathbreaker Black Magister Mathilde that will ruin this quest for me, not when we haven't deliberately decided to break the seals and fall on the knife in order to take out a larger threat.

Sorry, but this isn't true. Its like saying that racists can't ever try and stop being so racist. Noticing your own biases is an important part if character growth and introspection. It doesn't always prevent mistakes, but it sure helps notice them after. And with enough training the prevention part also becomes more frequent.

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Preach it. Noticing and adjusting for biases is super important for true growth.

 

[Guile]

Not so, even if we're not in a town, the Gambler would still be better in a fight. Hell, the Deceiver has a lot of potential applications depending on the type of enemy we face. The Protector only improves the rewards of the fighting.

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The Gambler works over the course of months. So yes, if we have six months to sabotage a Karak, Gambler is better. If we're invaded or if we go into a mini-turn where the fight to retake a Karak is over in a couple of days? No dice.

 

[BungieONI]

SNEK JUICE
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN(s): Turn into power stone after taking powerstone class. Talk to Kragg, or another dwarf about runes . Study ourselves.
TIME: ?
COST: Talking to Kragg requires a roll OR 10 dwarf favor. Also, studying costs Snek Juice.
PAYOFF: ???

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Part of the powerstone class is also to make sure Mathilde has the most current theories on Wind condensation processes since she seemed to get tripped up a bit while studying it and working through the idea of it condensing from raw Aethyr.

BECOME MAGISTER LORD
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Finish magic. Then either turns for us to have enough history to get it normally, or use the Great Deed.
TIME: Probably a while if we don't use a Great Deed
COST: Maybe a Great Deed. Might have additional responsibilities.
PAYOFF: The title. Extra pay from the dwarves, as we go up a rank on their payscale. Lower tithe? Additional respect. Oh yeah, also battle magic.

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I think we stop paying a tithe at that rank but don't quote me on that one.

 

[Guile]

I figured I would make a multi-action project page for us. Tell me what I am missing.

BIG PROJECTS

SNEK JUICE
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN(s): Turn into power stone after taking powerstone class. Talk to Kragg, or another dwarf about runes . Study ourselves.
TIME: ?
COST: Talking to Kragg requires a roll OR 10 dwarf favor. Also, studying costs Snek Juice.
PAYOFF: ???

THEURGY
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Study the coin.
TIME: ?
COST: ?
PAYOFF: ???

SPIDER SILK
PREREQ: Education of spiders?
PLAN: Get silk weaving capabilities. Then industrialize.
TIME: ?
COST: Lots of goats
PAYOFF: Crazy effects on global trade, access to spider silk for armor and wizard robes, EIC makes bank

BECOME MAGISTER LORD
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Finish magic. Then either turns for us to have enough history to get it normally, or use the Great Deed.
TIME: Probably a while if we don't use a Great Deed
COST: Maybe a Great Deed. Might have additional responsibilities.
PAYOFF: The title. Extra pay from the dwarves, as we go up a rank on their payscale. Lower tithe? Additional respect. Oh yeah, also battle magic.

K8P Magic College
PREREQ: Should have higher College Rep for this to work
PLAN: Get Permission from Belegar (easy). Get Permission from College (Probably needs a Great Deed). Recruit other Magisters.
TIME: The recruitment
COST: A Great Deed. Many College Favors for magister recruitment and buildings. Also, probably dwarf favors.
PAYOFF: K8P has wizards! Extra pay from the dwarves, as we go up a rank on their payscale as THE grandmaster, if not a grandmaster. An organization to run.

SCREWING AROUND WITH DHAR/WARPSTONE
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Screw around with dhar. It's no big deal. Nothing bad can happen. We promise.
TIME: Anytime you want.
COST: Violating the articles, maybe getting caught, exile from the empire and maybe K8P. Nothing really bad, all in all.
PAYOFF: Power! Unlimited Power!, Start of Abelhelm resurrection

SMALL PROJECTS

Finish non-Battle Magic Spells
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Fastest is to spend favor on the college gacha.
TIME: About 3ish actions (min 2), with the fastest method probably being gacha-ing until done. We could decide to save some favors at the end by doing partials by ourselves.
COST: 2ish college favors (last action could be us just finishing the partial spells without favor)
PAYOFF: The spells and +1 magic.
SYNERGIES: +1 magic helps with the armor.

AETHYRIC ARMOUR UPGRADE
PREREQ: 8 Magic, maybe spider silk
PLAN: Get materials, then attempt to make staff. Try to incorporate mastery, maybe use spider silk.
TIME: 1
COST: gold for materials, maybe the drake scales
PAYOFF: 2+ Armor, armor becomes more narratively effective, maybe armor includes mastery spell.

STAFF GET
PREREQ: Materials, maybe advanced enchanting
PLAN: Get materials, then attempt to make staff.
TIME: 1 turn minimum
COST: 2/5/10 college favors for wood/metal/exotic ulgu material
PAYOFF: +1 magic, maybe other bonuses.
SYNERGIES: +1 magic helps with the armor.

SKILL FROM COLLEGE
PREREQ: NONE
PLAN: Take class at college
TIME: 2ish turns
COST: 1 favor/100gp per turn
PAYOFF: +1 in relevant stat, narrative benefit

ADVANCED SKILL FROM COLLEGE
PREREQ: Basic skill
PLAN: Take class at college
TIME: 2ish turns
COST: 1 favor/100gp per turn
PAYOFF: additional +2 in relevant stat, narrative benefit, potential trait if core to Mathilde (rare)

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I'd add Retaking the Karak and Retaking Sylvania there.

 

[Nix's Warden]

Part of the powerstone class is also to make sure Mathilde has the most current theories on Wind condensation processes since she seemed to get tripped up a bit while studying it and working through the idea of it condensing from raw Aethyr.


I think we stop paying a tithe at that rank but don't quote me on that one.

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I think it drops to only a 5% tithe but I'm not sure.

 

[HavocKeeper]

K8P Magic College

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I might be in the minority here, but I really don't want this. It's a big project that will probably consume all of our time and as mich as I enjoyed the duckling lesson, I enjoy sneaking around doing spy things more.