Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
The curious thing was the fact that us manlings could visit it. Is it a sign of dwarven religious expansion to be?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'd say Dhar is pretty well understood, it's the stuff of magic, of the Aethir without order or structure, True Dhar is so called because it's actually homogenized into pure formless madness not the unbalanced sludge of 2-3 winds mingling wher ethe basence of the others gives it just enough 'order' to be horribly unstable.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
Time spent on boring admin shit is time not spent on researching magic, adventuring and figuring out a path to Ulgu ascension.
Time spent on boring admin shit is time not spent on researching magic, adventuring and figuring out a path to Ulgu ascension.
Voting closed, writing will begin shortly.
No, that part was just unspoken. That entire massive chunk of text is awkward but I couldn't find a way of breaking it up. Normally that'd be a roadblock to writing but having an audience waiting makes me accept good enough a lot better than with regular writing, which is an unexpectedly but welcome benefit of the format.
I'd have to go back through to be 100% sure, but if memory serves he first tried to befriend the Karak Izor Dwarves on his own and failed, then with Mathilde's introduction he tried the unaffiliated Dwarves, but had a falling out with them recently. He finally succeeded with one of the Clan Angrund Dwarves - most of them aren't actually warriors but have their own professions, and are only the centerpiece of the army because they have more runes per person than lesser Holds have in an entire Throng. Gratitude at success outweighed Maximilian's apparently single-digit diplomacy score.
(It's my opinion that in canon, Clan Angrund attacking K8P was basically one step below turning Slayer. They thought they'd die in the attempt, and even when they took the Citadel, they were without a supply line and only continued as long as they did because other Holds kept bailing them out. The entire Dwarven civilization is on a 'die with honour' kick with their Age of Vengeance, and I'm glad Mathilde has been able to allow a sliver of hope for a Second Silver Age - and a large part of that was not just allowing Belegar to succeed, but connecting him with younger Holds and races that still know the meaning of hope.)
Usually, but Taalite Knights are basically a perfect fit for Ambers.
An nontraditional Belegar might have headaches with diplomacy later, but for now it's paying dividends. I believe canon Belegar started his crusade at a similar age to this Belegar (not 100%, I've seen sources saying it's still decades away and others saying it was a few years ago) but by the time he appeared 'on-screen' he was firmly affiliated with older Holds and keeping to tradition.
I was basically rolling for his inventiveness, if he instantly cut it off I would have had to research how to make napalm out of early Renaissance ingredients and ended up on some government watchlist.
I rolled a D7 for their spell choices and that one still remained fixated on 'eadbutt. Sometimes I wonder if the Gods I'm writing are pulling strings through the fourth wall.
The Ulrican chapterhouse is in the Valley near the source of the Blood River, on the other end of that Underway tunnel from Death Pass. They'd still be firmly affiliated with K8P but politically independent.
That might turn into a political hot potato in the future. Knightly Orders declaring independence isn't the sort of precedent the Empire is likely to appreciate, especially if they take a few tens of thousands of taxpayers with them. That said they should focus more on the reason these guys left in the first place.
Not directly, but it does give you an impressive insight on Waaagh magic that could come in handy for writing a paper, as well as assisting with certain other greenskin research topics.
You could, yes. Grabbing a tower now means you have first choice. Grabbing it after becoming Spymaster means that all the really nice locations are taken and you're left either building your own or having an anonymous set of quarters tucked away underground somewhere... which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Dwarf Rep hasn't been updated since the Spider Incident on the way to Barak Varr. All that upkeep is going to take place over the next few updates.
Possibly, and it could very well be a bit of both, but the Throne of Power in particular makes me suspicious because it's marked with what's said to be the pinnacle of Grungni's Runecrafting and traditionally the King isn't allowed to sit down anywhere but on it.
You could, yeah. It would just count as a side-project (albeit one the Dwarves would appreciate) rather than your day job.
I am.
Depending on what Mathilde's future course will be, there's likely to be a once-and-for-all decision made on read vs donate vs destroy vs keep but Break Glass In Case Of Nagash. I'll open the floor for discussion the update before that vote.
Canon doesn't say for sure (that I've seen) but I'm certain they would. One parallel is that an actual Grudge is dammaz, whereas the concept of grudges is dammak.
Various ways to tweak the magical feng shui of Mathilde's home base will almost certainly be available, depending on exact circumstances.
Yes, but being up high doesn't make your shadow from the sun any larger so it'd just be a mount-sized shadow.
...assuming the Warhammer sun is an actual normal star. It is, right? At least one of the moons is wonky but I don't think I've seen any discussion on the nature of the sun.
Mathilde's stats haven't changed since the statline was made. There's going to be stat changes in the next few updates as I do the updating from this arc, and if any of those would change the tabletop stats I'll update both at the same time.
These are all things the conversation and debate in the thread are for. That said, since I added to the confusion on this matter: the 'Mayor' position would be part of leading the Undumgi, which Mathilde would only do if she took that as her permanent position once that choice comes around.
A good reception at basically any Dwarfhold, your name known to any Dwarf who pays even a sliver attention to the world outside their Hold, and being mostly free of the prejudices a lot of Dwarves hold against mankind in general.
Every single time I've checked that map I've seen major differences between it and canon maps. What I've noticed this time: Blood River does not have a K8P tributary. K8P side-road is further along Death Pass. There is no road from Death Pass to Karag Dron. I've yet to encounter any canonical source for Karaz Grimstok, and last time I went looking all I found was people discussing their failing to find information on it, and fanfiction about a human having sex with a Grey Seer.
Depending on the decision Mathilde ends up making, the thread will be able to decide what level of granularity of control she has over her domain.
Disdain for Sigmar: Abelhelm Van Hal died abandoned by Sigmar. You intend to return the favour. +1 Piety due to renewed faith in other gods, will not let Sigmarism flourish in institutions she controls - penalty to institutional actions unless worship of another god is instituted.
The trait means organizations as a whole under Mathilde's control cannot be Sigmarite, either officially or unofficially, or a penalty kicks in. Mathilde won't persecute individual Sigmarites under her, as her grudge is against Sigmar, not His followers. There's a huge number of Gods both inside and outside the Empire, and installing any one of them as patron deity of a given organization would avoid any possibility of the penalty.
No, that part was just unspoken. That entire massive chunk of text is awkward but I couldn't find a way of breaking it up. Normally that'd be a roadblock to writing but having an audience waiting makes me accept good enough a lot better than with regular writing, which is an unexpectedly but welcome benefit of the format.
I'd have to go back through to be 100% sure, but if memory serves he first tried to befriend the Karak Izor Dwarves on his own and failed, then with Mathilde's introduction he tried the unaffiliated Dwarves, but had a falling out with them recently. He finally succeeded with one of the Clan Angrund Dwarves - most of them aren't actually warriors but have their own professions, and are only the centerpiece of the army because they have more runes per person than lesser Holds have in an entire Throng. Gratitude at success outweighed Maximilian's apparently single-digit diplomacy score.
(It's my opinion that in canon, Clan Angrund attacking K8P was basically one step below turning Slayer. They thought they'd die in the attempt, and even when they took the Citadel, they were without a supply line and only continued as long as they did because other Holds kept bailing them out. The entire Dwarven civilization is on a 'die with honour' kick with their Age of Vengeance, and I'm glad Mathilde has been able to allow a sliver of hope for a Second Silver Age - and a large part of that was not just allowing Belegar to succeed, but connecting him with younger Holds and races that still know the meaning of hope.)
Usually, but Taalite Knights are basically a perfect fit for Ambers.
An nontraditional Belegar might have headaches with diplomacy later, but for now it's paying dividends. I believe canon Belegar started his crusade at a similar age to this Belegar (not 100%, I've seen sources saying it's still decades away and others saying it was a few years ago) but by the time he appeared 'on-screen' he was firmly affiliated with older Holds and keeping to tradition.
I was basically rolling for his inventiveness, if he instantly cut it off I would have had to research how to make napalm out of early Renaissance ingredients and ended up on some government watchlist.
I rolled a D7 for their spell choices and that one still remained fixated on 'eadbutt. Sometimes I wonder if the Gods I'm writing are pulling strings through the fourth wall.
The Ulrican chapterhouse is in the Valley near the source of the Blood River, on the other end of that Underway tunnel from Death Pass. They'd still be firmly affiliated with K8P but politically independent.
That might turn into a political hot potato in the future. Knightly Orders declaring independence isn't the sort of precedent the Empire is likely to appreciate, especially if they take a few tens of thousands of taxpayers with them. That said they should focus more on the reason these guys left in the first place.
Not directly, but it does give you an impressive insight on Waaagh magic that could come in handy for writing a paper, as well as assisting with certain other greenskin research topics.
You could, yes. Grabbing a tower now means you have first choice. Grabbing it after becoming Spymaster means that all the really nice locations are taken and you're left either building your own or having an anonymous set of quarters tucked away underground somewhere... which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Dwarf Rep hasn't been updated since the Spider Incident on the way to Barak Varr. All that upkeep is going to take place over the next few updates.
Possibly, and it could very well be a bit of both, but the Throne of Power in particular makes me suspicious because it's marked with what's said to be the pinnacle of Grungni's Runecrafting and traditionally the King isn't allowed to sit down anywhere but on it.
You could, yeah. It would just count as a side-project (albeit one the Dwarves would appreciate) rather than your day job.
I am.
Depending on what Mathilde's future course will be, there's likely to be a once-and-for-all decision made on read vs donate vs destroy vs keep but Break Glass In Case Of Nagash. I'll open the floor for discussion the update before that vote.
Canon doesn't say for sure (that I've seen) but I'm certain they would. One parallel is that an actual Grudge is dammaz, whereas the concept of grudges is dammak.
Various ways to tweak the magical feng shui of Mathilde's home base will almost certainly be available, depending on exact circumstances.
Yes, but being up high doesn't make your shadow from the sun any larger so it'd just be a mount-sized shadow.
...assuming the Warhammer sun is an actual normal star. It is, right? At least one of the moons is wonky but I don't think I've seen any discussion on the nature of the sun.
Mathilde's stats haven't changed since the statline was made. There's going to be stat changes in the next few updates as I do the updating from this arc, and if any of those would change the tabletop stats I'll update both at the same time.
These are all things the conversation and debate in the thread are for. That said, since I added to the confusion on this matter: the 'Mayor' position would be part of leading the Undumgi, which Mathilde would only do if she took that as her permanent position once that choice comes around.
A good reception at basically any Dwarfhold, your name known to any Dwarf who pays even a sliver attention to the world outside their Hold, and being mostly free of the prejudices a lot of Dwarves hold against mankind in general.
Every single time I've checked that map I've seen major differences between it and canon maps. What I've noticed this time: Blood River does not have a K8P tributary. K8P side-road is further along Death Pass. There is no road from Death Pass to Karag Dron. I've yet to encounter any canonical source for Karaz Grimstok, and last time I went looking all I found was people discussing their failing to find information on it, and fanfiction about a human having sex with a Grey Seer.
Depending on the decision Mathilde ends up making, the thread will be able to decide what level of granularity of control she has over her domain.
Disdain for Sigmar: Abelhelm Van Hal died abandoned by Sigmar. You intend to return the favour. +1 Piety due to renewed faith in other gods, will not let Sigmarism flourish in institutions she controls - penalty to institutional actions unless worship of another god is instituted.
The trait means organizations as a whole under Mathilde's control cannot be Sigmarite, either officially or unofficially, or a penalty kicks in. Mathilde won't persecute individual Sigmarites under her, as her grudge is against Sigmar, not His followers. There's a huge number of Gods both inside and outside the Empire, and installing any one of them as patron deity of a given organization would avoid any possibility of the penalty.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
IIRC they sort of 'cheat' by naturally producing Dhar like a shadow produces Ulgu.
To a degree that's true, but it's not clear whether it's like High Magic, but the opposite, ie. all eight winds working against each other, or whether it's the Winds 'crushed' together. It's regarded pretty much universally as an abomination, but exactly how it works isn't quite sure.
Plus, quest canon at least says it's not just raw Aethyr, as the Snake Juice is is supposed to be raw Aethyr.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I'm certainly hoping that the fourth option (whether sponsoring PhD research papers by Journeymanlings and harvesting reflected credit, or Mayor Matty of Manlingtown) is still considered fully open, particularly considering the nature of the two leading votes. (@BoneyM ?)
We were always going to vote to go see the High Kingdom and Victory Ceremony and Grudge-Striking, considering where Mathilde has got to.
Whatever the future route this may imply, it's too good a scene not to be part of, and we've done as much to earn it as any.
Even the Wizard tower seems less a vote for what Mathilde is going to do, than a "damn right let's justly claim our home in a place we did so much to carve out".
These two are rather different-in-kind to the Mayor and Journeymanling research and other options, which I consider much stronger statements of intent.
(Edit: kind of ninjaed by vote close
)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ok than.
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I haven't seen anything to the contrary. At least, not in fantasy battles. AoS might be a different story.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
I'd imagine that a slightly mitigating factor will be the fact that this knightly order will be spending their time keeping an incredibly valuable trade route clean.
- I think it's more than vampires have a Dhar vortex in their souls that constantly draws the stuff in not that they produce it. After all Necrarchs can subsist on magic and so can other breeds, albeit with the risk of degenerating mentally.
- The skake juice is the innards of a minor daemon, that has structure and identity
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
As far as I'm aware yes the sun is normal. Though if you want an interesting End Times Plot you could always change that
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
That assumes way more sanity on behalf of Imperial authorities than they have demonstrated, unfortunately. (looking at you, Grand Theogonist and al-Ulric!)
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Yeah, that's what I meant. i thought they produced though, but that's what i was refering to.
Yes, but it's also explicitly formed of before-winds-magic. Plus there's the fact that when True Dhar manifests fully into reality, it becomes Warpstone, instead of transmuting a little part of the world into the Aethyr.
Not entirely the case, it's just that you have to go to the poles to see magic leak into reality without becoming warpstone. It could be that what Mathilde has in that box is a Chaos Waste in miniature attuned to the Wisdom's Asp not the four malignant tumors upon reality masquerading as gods.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A good vote/discussion all around, I think. The first and second place votes got locked in early, but I think the Undumgi vote was no more than 10 votes ahead of the Journeymanlings vote for the entire day. Over 200 people near-evenly splitting their votes between those two choices. Not to mention we had 293 voters total, which has got to be a record of some kind. Pretty cool, yeah?
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I don't think the gates pour out pure magic though. I always got the impression it was immediately shaped into the winds. There's also the fact that they apparently pour forth clouds of warpstone dust.
And I imagine occasionally a very angry Grimnir
.I don't think the gates pour out pure magic though. I always got the impression it was immediately shaped into the winds. There's also the fact that they apparently pour forth clouds of warpstone dust.
And I imagine occasionally a very angry Grimnir
There is definitely cross-contamination of the real and unreal up north, structures that could not exist in reality forming and being sustained, temporal and spacial paradoxes. By the time you are standing next to one of the gates you are practically half-way in the warp.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I believe it went up to 15 for about an hour. However, there were periods when the papers were ahead, up to about ten.
Why, yes, I spent way more time watching this vote than I should (or is healthy).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also, we'd need to fly pretty low for that to work.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
The White Tower is explicitly held up by magic, particularly it's position in the swirls and eddys of the Great Vortex and Saphery's geography is fricking weird anywaywhat with the rainbow skies, glowing rivers and moving hills, so it's not like that's impossible to do without raw magic.
Also nitpicky, but the warp doesn't exist in Fantasy. There's the Realm of Chaos instead. Notably it's different in that there's never been a calm time for it, and it's not got any non-chaos structures IIRC.
Hey, Mathilde was quite intentional about killing them. It's just that she didn't always realize that the greenskin she was killing was in fact the war boss.
I imagine that the Grand Theogonist shares a bit of the target area of Mathilde's grudge (Or maybe Grudge? She does seem to be absorbing some dwarfish mentalities...) with Sigmar. But yeah, if we ever get the chance, I would love to see that prick getting slapped with how he has failed to live up to Sigmar's dictates.
Perhaps, but the forests of jagged crystal that constantly reshape, rivers of blood and quivering hills of flesh, not to mention the chaos warriors fighting their own younger or older selves are something even the high elves would... struggle to replicate. The wastes like daemon world in 40K are halfway into the imeterium.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Its Chotec, of course
- Location
- Brazil
It's not rocket science:
1) The Dwarves are better at making axes than swords.
2) The Dwarves are immeasurably better at grounding magic than channeling it.
3) A magic-enhancing instrument is incompatible with an Earthing Rod.
4) Wood that's good at conducting magic is incredibly easier to procure than metal that does the same, as the later is virtually impossible for us.
5) Miscasts are terribly, horribly dangerous, and especially with battle magic, we should do everything we can to avoid them, but even common spells are no joke.
6) Dwarves can make a superbly killy axe head and attach it to a runed magic-grounding shaft without an issue. WoG.
It's not rocket science that "a super Killy axe that grounds out Miscasts is the best Mathilde could hope for". The axe's nature as a two-piece weapon heavily works in our favor here. And it would flat out be a better-made weapon than a sword, because the best axe Kragg can make certainly beats the best sword Max can smith.
No juggling anything, a simple weapon that does everything we want and need, and not only that, makes far more efficient used of favor as the dwarves would work on their two top specialties: murderous axes and grounding magic.
It's WoG that the similarities are enough that our axe skill would catch up to our greatsword skill very, very fast.
I was fine with a sword, but the possibility of an axe, which we already knew would be a better weapon in absolute terms, that also mitigates our greatest issue, i.e. the inherent danger of magic, is too good to pass up.
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