Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Folks keep saying that staying with the dwarves is more a short-term arrangement than anything.

It's not.

It's going to take Y E A R S to reclaim all of Karak Eight Peaks. If we stay now, we're going to stay until the job is done. Leaving later, for any significant length of time, would be like leaving a job half-finished.

I don't WANT to stay here for the next couple of years.

We are NOT talking about short-term focus here. We're talking about long-term focus.

I have no idea where you're getting the idea that people are saying staying with the Dwarves is a short term thing. Most people voting to stay at K8P want to stay long term.

We fully know that staying with the dwarves options isn't a short term arrangement, we're just choosing to stay (at least those who vote for dwarf options). In fact, I'm pretty sure a while ago, we'd allocated 5 years to retaking Karak Eight Peaks, but we finished this expedition much earlier than we anticipated I think.
 
So I don't know if this has been brought up yet but
1. Since the mayor/tavern option seems to be winning, what do you guys think about building a branch of EIC here?
We kinda need supplies and stuff for either the tower or the tavern/ any other projects after all.

2. Journeymanlings

I know Esbern and Seija will be leaving and if we can't convince/don't convince them to stay, how about commissioning minor trinkets to aid them? I kinda want to see them more in the future.
Same question for the rest of our Journeymanlings should we or them decided to part ways.
Sounds like a good idea to me. All the journeymanlings should get commemorative t-shirts that say "I fought at karak Eight Peaks and I all I got was this lousy T-shirt".

An argument in favor of Undumgi:


First, I need to clarify what I see Mathilde as and what aspects of her I want to reinforce: I want Mathilde to be a quintessential grey wizard, with knowledge about events both far and near, able to tip the balance of a critical event all over the world before others even realize there is something that needs to be done, and knowledgeable in matters of arcane in the extreme (basically, Gandalf). In the same time, I really like Belegar and am enthusiastic about k8p being our new home.


Bearing that in mind, let's look at the options: the leading two, which have a very good chance of winning are getting a tower and travelling to Karaz-a-Karak and becoming Belegar's foreign intelligence service. These are conducive for my proposed vision of Mathilde, as they

lock-in k8p as her home
give her an official position in Belegar's court
give her a reason to have an occasional adventure outside of k8p, as stomping thaggaroki and grobi all day every day is bound to get old rather fast.
give her official reason and funding to start building world-wide information network, which in turn would also give access to reasons for adventures in new and interesting locales, without actually leaving k8p

Sure, she might actually do better and be more needed by Belegar as a scout/infiltrator/saboteur/assassin in k8p proper (because she is frankly amazing in that role, and he damn well knows it), but the external spymastering gives us, the players, to a greater variety of things happening, so I am okay with that.


Now, the critical question: undumgi or papers.


Undumgi:

Undumgi have extreme synergy with spymastering externally. Getting establishing them means that we get to establish security over the foreign quarter of k8p (which we need to do as a spymaster), we get immediate access about all the information passing through what is to be a major trade route and have a shoo-in in establishing information network in the nearby Ulrican settlement (again, a necessity).
Undumgi can be leveraged in an increased presence of East Empire Trading Company, as there is world of difference between one of your founders being a dwarf friend living in the hold and one of your founders being in control (for some degree) of the foreign quarter of said hold. This can not only increase EETC revenue and profits but also give us easier time in making EETC a part of our information network, which both helps our general spymastering and lets us keep an eye on Stirland just in case.
Undumgi are likely to be much less sucessful without Mathilde. While they are steadfast and skilled in arms, they are not most organised or law-abiding bunch and are unlikely to have good institutional experience in building such organisations. Anything they come up on their own is likely to be corruption-prone and extortion happy, undermining the very idea of the organisation. Which is a pity, because they can be so much more.
Undumgi do not lock us into being a full-time mayor (unless we want to), which BoneyM graciously clarified.
Undumgi are time-critical. They are being organised right now one way or another, with us or without.

Papers:

Papers are not particularly time-critical. The journemanlings (apart from amberlings) are not going anywhere, they will be staying in k8p for quite some time for reasons of their own.
Papers are a research action. We already have one, and double-dipping in research, in my opinion, is a bit excessive.

All in all, while both options are worthy, the undumgi option seems to be much superior for this round of voting.

Edit: changed uzumgi into proper undumgi. Not sure why I made that mistake. Perhaps the deathwatch meme is too strong?
Good arguments, you've got my vote.
Folks keep saying that staying with the dwarves is more a short-term arrangement than anything.

It's not.

It's going to take Y E A R S to reclaim all of Karak Eight Peaks. If we stay now, we're going to stay until the job is done. Leaving later, for any significant length of time, would be like leaving a job half-finished.

I don't WANT to stay here for the next couple of years.

We are NOT talking about short-term focus here. We're talking about long-term focus.
Who's been saying it's short term? If we're building a tower here, dealing with Belegar and generally taking positions of authority it's pretty clear we're here for the long haul.
 
To clarify this statement, they likely have the capacity to make rifles. Actually using long-arms like that would be a very niche situation requiring sniper-weapons, as standard muskets and battle rifles would be too long and unwieldy in comparatively shorter dwarf arms. As such, rifles are likely made to order for customers only, and not a part of standard issue weapons for any caliber of dwarf gunsman.
While that's certainly an argument to be made, why does no one have them? And I don't mean any unit, but why does say, Ulthar not have one? Or any of the engineers? Someone for who being able to both spot and shoot at great distances would be a massive aid. I find it more likely that it's an idea they're still testing and therefore such designs aren't presented for sale or use yet, while humans rushed into things with the HLR and got lucky.

I should also note that they have handguns, which seem to be largely analogous to muskets, being two-handed larger weapons that have greater range than pistols.
 
Clearly what we should be doing is double back to Stirland and save Roswita from the vile clutches of Sigmar.

Think of how quickly the God withdrew his aid to ensure her father Ford, and she even has Kasmir right next to her to "fail" again.

Even if you don't like the lass, at least do it to spite Sigmar!
 
While that's certainly an argument to be made, why does no one have them? And I don't mean any unit, but why does say, Ulthar not have one? Or any of the engineers? Someone for who being able to both spot and shoot at great distances would be a massive aid. I find it more likely that it's an idea they're still testing and therefore such designs aren't presented for sale or use yet, while humans rushed into things with the HLR and got lucky.

I should also note that they have handguns, which seem to be largely analogous to muskets, being two-handed larger weapons that have greater range than pistols.
Boney said we could potentially buy a multi-shot rifle at Zhufbar.

Dwarf tech is very eclectic, and many Dwarfs refuse to upgrade from crossbows and such on the basis that it works just fine for them.
 
Last edited:
With the Und-Umgi, I'd much rather be the power behind the throne so to speak. We can plant our Wizard Tower over it, set up an Inn, a branch of the EIC and make sure the guy nominally in charge answers to us or at least has an equal relationship with us.

It'd take some actions to find the right person to back and set up a good relationship with them, but we should be able to set something up.
 
Clearly what we should be doing is double back to Stirland and save Roswita from the vile clutches of Sigmar.

Think of how quickly the God withdrew his aid to ensure her father Ford, and she even has Kasmir right next to her to "fail" again.

Even if you don't like the lass, at least do it to spite Sigmar!
I thought you of all people would be happy about current vote, given that the option to deal with our 'research backlog' is handily winning. Hint hint, nudge nudge.

With the Und-Umgi, I'd much rather be the power behind the throne so to speak. We can plant our Wizard Tower over it, set up an Inn, a branch of the EIC and make sure the guy nominally in charge answers to us or at least has an equal relationship with us.

It'd take some actions to find the right person to back and set up a good relationship with them, but we should be able to set something up.

That's probably prudent, given that we would be frequently out of hold due to our duties as a spymaster for external matters. In any case, the day-to-day running would have to be heavily delegated once we set it up, and quite possibly we will have to hunt down prospective officers out of k8p.
 
Last edited:
Papers are a research action. We already have one, and double-dipping in research, in my opinion, is a bit excessive.

Research actions are good for making Mathilde a both a better Grey Wizard and a Grey Wizard that's better viewed by the Colleges though.

It's going to take Y E A R S to reclaim all of Karak Eight Peaks. If we stay now, we're going to stay until the job is done. Leaving later, for any significant length of time, would be like leaving a job half-finished.

I don't WANT to stay here for the next couple of years.

We are NOT talking about short-term focus here. We're talking about long-term focus.

Didn't Mathilde basically budget 5 years for the Expedition?

Sure things are sort of winding down now because a large part of Karak Eight Peaks has been recovered after significant battles and even Dawi need some rest but there's no reason to not try to at least clear out the greenskins and trolls from the other peaks in a couple years.
 
With the Und-Umgi, I'd much rather be the power behind the throne so to speak. We can plant our Wizard Tower over it, set up an Inn, a branch of the EIC and make sure the guy nominally in charge answers to us or at least has an equal relationship with us.

It'd take some actions to find the right person to back and set up a good relationship with them, but we should be able to set something up.
Yeah, preferable to a more official leadership position since it means less work for us.
 
Research actions are good for making Mathilde a both a better Grey Wizard and a Grey Wizard that's better viewed by the Colleges though.

I never said the option is bad - just that it is not best done right now. Had we more than three choices, I'd go for it. In fact, I'd be tempted to dump the 'getting tower option' in favour of papers, but tower is unassailable.
 
[X] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
[X] You're going to have a rough time explaining your windfall to the Bursars. Better to get that over with.

Edit: looks like you need to edit the original vote for the tally to notice
 
Last edited:
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 28, 2019 at 10:06 AM, finished with 729 posts and 271 votes.
 
Actually I think writing the papers is more time critical than anything else. Right now all of our, and the various Journeymen's, experiences and observations are fresh in our minds but the longer we wait the less recent they are and the more difficult it will be to recall specific things or potentially critical but minor details. Frankly I want to get the research options over with, and fast, so that the next shiny thing that shows up doesn't just add to a pile of interested but never visited research stuff. The Quaysh juice was first acquired on Turn 7, we're soon going to be on turn 19 so we've spent more than fully half the quest (in turns at least, in truth actually much, much more) with it sitting there without actually addressing; I suspect our observations during the campaign are likely to turn out similar unless we make a serious and concerted effort to address them right off the bat.

Plus, while Pan and Johan are likely to stick around, Max and the two Amber wizards probably won't past a turn or two (if we're lucky on the last). That means a limited amount of time to easily get their imput. Also, Kragg isn't likely to be here permanently. As a very important Runepriest he's probably heading back to the Everpeak soon, it's chancy to expect much help form him, but I'd like it if he's willing to offer with his own observations.

So yeah, Writing is is in my opinion more time critical than anything else.
 
>Go to sleep
>Trying to start NEW Research is about to overtake being Mayor.

Why? We don't need MORE research projects on our hands. We can write the papers latter whenever, but we've been sitting on our current research for YEARS already, and if we want to set up that Ranald Tavern Gambling Hall Temple, this is our best chance at doing so! The fucking Skaven will always be there, its no rush, and we can just make a paper later!
 
I have no idea where you're getting the idea that people are saying staying with the Dwarves is a short term thing. Most people voting to stay at K8P want to stay long term.

We fully know that staying with the dwarves options isn't a short term arrangement, we're just choosing to stay (at least those who vote for dwarf options). In fact, I'm pretty sure a while ago, we'd allocated 5 years to retaking Karak Eight Peaks, but we finished this expedition much earlier than we anticipated I think.
Is there an official timeline for the Expedition? Because it feels like once we'd actually gotten here, we wrapped things up in under a week.

Actually I think writing the papers is more time critical than anything else. Right now all of our, and the various Journeymen's, experiences and observations are fresh in our minds but the longer we wait the less recent they are and the more difficult it will be to recall specific things or potentially critical but minor details. Frankly I want to get the research options over with, and fast, so that the next shiny thing that shows up doesn't just add to a pile of interested but never visited research stuff. The Quaysh juice was first acquired on Turn 7, we're soon going to be on turn 19 so we've spent more than fully half the quest (in turns at least, in truth actually much, much more) with it sitting there without actually addressing; I suspect our observations during the campaign are likely to turn out similar unless we make a serious and concerted effort to address them right off the bat.

Plus, while Pan and Johan are likely to stick around, Max and the two Amber wizards probably won't past a turn or two (if we're lucky on the last). That means a limited amount of time to easily get their imput. Also, Kragg isn't likely to be here permanently. As a very important Runepriest he's probably heading back to the Everpeak soon, it's chancy to expect much help form him, but I'd like it if he's willing to offer with his own observations.

So yeah, Writing is is in my opinion more time critical than anything else.
But muh tavern tho
 
[X] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
 
Actually I think writing the papers is more time critical than anything else. Right now all of our, and the various Journeymen's, experiences and observations are fresh in our minds but the longer we wait the less recent they are and the more difficult it will be to recall specific things or potentially critical but minor details. Frankly I want to get the research options over with, and fast, so that the next shiny thing that shows up doesn't just add to a pile of interested but never visited research stuff. The Quaysh juice was first acquired on Turn 7, we're soon going to be on turn 19 so we've spent more than fully half the quest (in turns at least, in truth actually much, much more) with it sitting there without actually addressing; I suspect our observations during the campaign are likely to turn out similar unless we make a serious and concerted effort to address them right off the bat.

Plus, while Pan and Johan are likely to stick around, Max and the two Amber wizards probably won't past a turn or two (if we're lucky on the last). That means a limited amount of time to easily get their imput. Also, Kragg isn't likely to be here permanently. As a very important Runepriest he's probably heading back to the Everpeak soon, it's chancy to expect much help form him, but I'd like it if he's willing to offer with his own observations.

So yeah, Writing is is in my opinion more time critical than anything else.
Max is unlikely to get from k8p any time soon, as he is being trained in dwarven metalsmithing by a clan Angrund smith, who is going to be living here. And that is a very much multi-turn thing. Kragg is 50/50 I'd say - Kragg does what Kragg wants, and right now he likely wants to explore the lost runecraft of k8p.

Not writing the papers will cost us, true - but not much, about a -10 penalty to the roll for each turn we do not take it if our previous research options are any indication. Not taking this action now makes it slightly harder. Not taking the undumgi now makes that action closed and replaced by another, inferior, action (getting influence in an already established organization).
 
Is there an official timeline for the Expedition? Because it feels like once we'd actually gotten here, we wrapped things up in under a week.
An official timeline? I don't believe there is. When we voted for the expedition though we set aside about five years, which the expedition clearly didn't take. So... meh.
 
Is there an official timeline for the Expedition? Because it feels like once we'd actually gotten here, we wrapped things up in under a week.


But muh tavern tho
Business are one of those things which we can exclusively use money to buy. Like buying property and getting it set up does not actually need us to seriously invest our own personal time into it, but research is something only WE can do at least on these specific things.
 
[X] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
 
I want to do the mayor thing so we can set up a casino along the home stretch of a major trade route as a shrine to Ranald. That way we will never want for money ever again.
 
Back
Top