Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
There are saner ways to live forever than necromancy.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
I doubt Matilda or anybody else is gunna forget that crazy miscast we induced, or our MAP, anytime in the next few years dude. We can write our paper anytime in the next year or two and it wouldn't change anything.
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- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Was finally caught up enough to vote this time.
I voted for the town option to help setup another bastion of civilization outside the Empire. I will fully admit to not understanding where we fully are in relation to it but I know we went through the Border Princes. A lot of nonsense comes from those areas.
Also well it's good to have fallbacks as the halflings said. Maybe in time this place will really grow and spread out.
I voted for the town option to help setup another bastion of civilization outside the Empire. I will fully admit to not understanding where we fully are in relation to it but I know we went through the Border Princes. A lot of nonsense comes from those areas.
Also well it's good to have fallbacks as the halflings said. Maybe in time this place will really grow and spread out.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Undumgi is the choice if we want to establish ourselves in charge of the entire thing. It's not important if all we want to do is set up a Ranald shrine and extend our spy network into the organization. We can do that without taking command. Moreover, I think it's presumptuous to think that there won't be competent humans or dwarves in charge who can organize it. Remember, Belegar has been flexing his Stewardship stat this entire campaign. There are advantages we can build on by getting in on the ground floor, but they're only good only if we want a command/mayoral position. Otherwise these are all side projects we can take later on and without putting ourselves as the head of the group.
The papers are a very time-critical action. If we write the papers together with our Journeymanlings, not only do we get it done now in this period, but we won't have any penalty due to time, we'll do it as a group project which will improve results, and submitting it now instead of years after means we get full College favor and influence. (And any stat/trait gain to boot.) I don't want to spend action after action after action trying to write papers. I want it done right now, and working on it with our peers has a good chance of getting it done in this one time period.
At the end of the day, I want this because I think our Journeymanlings are fun and I want Mathilde to interact with them more. I want to do that much more than have her establish herself as the head of a big organization, and I think may of the side projects people want to tie into helping the Undumgi get established aren't as important or time critical as people make it out to be.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Yes, I don't think anyone wants to be tied down. This vote us just to establish ourselves among the humans in the area and make sure everything goes as we would like.
The vote to potentially become Mayor will come later.
We did try to research Qaysh Juice. The problem was that we needed a full enchanting lab set up and Wizard Chic happened.
IIRC we didn't get that set up until right before our Magister training and we were busy with the K8P Expedition right after. Now is the first time we've had the chance to research it since.
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CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
Not the events themselves, no. But details? Oh, yes we will, which is what will mechanically reduce any bonuses to writing/investigating those things. Also writing the papers is what gets us a better chance of investigating Skaven tech with Johan which is something that the refounded Hold will absolutely find itself contending with in the future. It's also some of the most advanced technology on the planet (bar the dwarves) and so long as we can find ways to make it safe/reliable there's no risk of dwarven ire from employing it.
No, Wizard Chic stopped us from setting up the enchanting lab, which hampered us investigating the swords and dealing with the demon; which got us the Quaysh juice. Nothing except our own choices has stopped us from researching the juice. Remember we got it on Turn 7.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I'll be totally honest, I'm hoping the snakejuice isn't Qhaysh. Typical attempts by people who aren't Elves or Lizardmen to mess with Qhaysh seems have nasty effects.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What I could find on Boney's thoughts on the matter of the Undumgi.
In regards to it turning the quest into an empire quest. Most people don't as has been mentioned.
I have been convinced yet again to swap my vote.
So I went back and looked over the the vote that originally convinced my to vote for Undumgi and I realized the arguments aren't as convincing as I first thought.
Undumgi have extreme synergy with spymastering externally. Getting establishing them means that we get to establish security over the foreign quarter of k8p (which we need to do as a spymaster), we get immediate access about all the information passing through what is to be a major trade route and have a shoo-in in establishing information network in the nearby Ulrican settlement (again, a necessity).
I'm more interested in clearing the Eight Peaks, performing magical research and pushing for Magister Lord. Spending a lot of time messing around with a spy network of unknown utility at the expense of those doesn't actually interest me.
Undumgi can be leveraged in an increased presence of East Empire Trading Company, as there is world of difference between one of your founders being a dwarf friend living in the hold and one of your founders being in control (for some degree) of the foreign quarter of said hold. This can not only increase EETC revenue and profits but also give us easier time in making EETC a part of our information network, which both helps our general spymastering and lets us keep an eye on Stirland just in case.
Ehh, we have plenty of gold. In fact more gold than we really need so this doesn't really interest me (same for the spy network)
Undumgi are likely to be much less sucessful without Mathilde. While they are steadfast and skilled in arms, they are not most organised or law-abiding bunch and are unlikely to have good institutional experience in building such organisations. Anything they come up on their own is likely to be corruption-prone and extortion happy, undermining the very idea of the organisation. Which is a pity, because they can be so much more.
They have the knights and expertise from all over and the Dwarfs to help them out. Mathilde's organizations are all kind of corrupt and she left all these guys at the mercy of Codrin so if anything she's more likely to undermine them than anything.
Undumgi do not lock us into being a full-time mayor (unless we want to), which BoneyM graciously clarified.
Not actually an argument to take it now that I think about it.
Undumgi are time-critical. They are being organised right now one way or another, with us or without.
Us modern humans are highly resistant to the buy now or you'll lose the chance advertising.
Well I'll see if I'm swayed yet again by a new argument in the future.
I'm pretty sure no one not an elf or lizardman can even get close, but I can't think of any instances of it going badly.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
My understanding is that typically human mages who try to study more than one wind either go crazy, or accidentally create Dhar and explode themselves. You're right that there are no specific examples I can find though.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I strongly disagree. Even if we do not want full command of the organization, the easiest way of extending spy network into it is right in the start, as you can appoint your agents to key positions and/or make those getting that positions understand that they are getting those positions because of you and they should return you a favor or two if they know what's good for them. Any other time, we will need to penetrate what internal security they will set up? and we will get worse results for much more effort.
And once again, we do not need to actually take command of them if we take this option, as have been clarified by BoneyM, we merely can. We can just as well just choose who does and make sure he owes us favors.
On the topic of Belegar organising them - I doubt it. While he probably could if he had time, he is going to be very busy with turning a warcamp into a dwarfhold and I doubt that organising umgi is high in his list of priorities. I also doubt that he is going to appoint a dwarf commander - his approach to umgi matters so far has been 'let them sort their pecking order and work through whoever rises to the top'. Using this approach with a bunch of adventurers and mercenaries is going to get you results which are not that good for a law enfrorcement organisation. They will probably be very good at keeping gribblies off the roads, don't get me wrong, but I also expect more than a fair share of shaking up merchants for money.
Once again, I'd like to note that journeymanlings will be here for years and are not going anywhere whatever we choose. I acknowledge that writing these papers will be slightly harder if we do not do it now, but I expect us to overcome it, much as we did with the matrix. And the only way we are not getting full college favour is if one of the jorneymanlings writes and publishes a paper first - so yes, the action is somewhat on a time limit, but it is a much more lax timelimit that with undumgi.
Oh, you meant that, yes trying to channel different winds as a human is a one way trip to insanity, the thing is the snake juice (whatever it is) isn't something that goes through our soul. Working with it is more like alchemy than magic.
CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
You realize that's their purpose, right? In premodern contexts, taxing merchants who use your roads and passes is the point of controlling/maintaining them.
Edited for clarity. The bolded part is what I'm responding too.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Alright. Revoting. My choices are NOT going to help with the knife fighting, but I want to get another chance to explain my particular reasoning. And I've ordered my votes.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
[X] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with foreign relations, as a Spymaster focused outwards.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.
[] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
This suggests a future of investigation and study at Karak Eight Peaks, and perhaps helping Johann poke at Skaven technology.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
- Because I really, really want to catch up on Mathilde's "pre-existing study topics".
[X] Travel to Karaz-a-Karak with King Belegar for the striking out of several well-aged grudges.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with foreign relations, as a Spymaster focused outwards.
- Because as useful as Mathilde would be at internal investigation and sabotage of the greenskins and Skaven, doing that over and over again would get boring. Besides, being an external spy gives us the perfect excuse to travel.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.
- While I am not particularly interested in taking on too much responsibility here, I feel this job would synergize well with a lot of my interests. Having a stake in the human presence in K8P would help us not get to bored of interacting only with dwarfs, it ties in nicely with my preferance for external spywork, and it gives Mathilde a chance to proselytize some more and of deepening her relationship with the Empire's next most important cult after Sigmar, who she hates. Also, wolves for Wolf to hang out with.
[] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
This suggests a future of investigation and study at Karak Eight Peaks, and perhaps helping Johann poke at Skaven technology.
- My fourth choice. So, I won't mind too much if it wins, but I am not particularly interested in just doing research for a while. Honestly, I only prefer it over visiting Stirland only because I figure it would give Mathilde the best chance of making the Amber wizards put off leaving long enough to help with her magic egg.
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- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
We didn't interfere as he separated the wheat from the chaff. The situation has changed.
Both options are time-critical, so it falls to which is more important. Those Ulrican's will be at least a week away. Someone also has to call for other priests to join the settlement, priests of Morr and Shallya and Verena.
Everyone knows that the longer we wait, the worse off we will be when it comes to writing those papers. Nobody wants a repeat of the first time. We are all looking forward to those sweet, sweet college favors. It's not going to be put off indefinitely.
We didn't manage to purchase the enchanting equipment for our lab until turn 9. At which point the campaign to clear the hills was rapidly approaching. We had a lot on our plate.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
There is a world of difference between taxes and 'taxes'.
Could a runed/magic weapon/banner be designed to spread the effect of the below effect to the weapons of any unit she joins?
You instinctively channel Ulgu along any weapon you wield. Any weapon held by you counts as Magical.
Personally, interested in keeping a great weapon, in particular great sword, as our primary weapon so that she can basically become a miniloremaster. Not a master of multiple winds of course, but a master swordsman wielding a great/longsword and being a master mage. For this, well rune of parrying to mirror the defensive ability (not granting parry against ranged attacks but in melee well it makes it harder for most to hit her)… thematically more interested in a very fast greatsword than very powerful
Also, when it comes to money, I understand that Maximilian helped with the coins, maybe some extra gold should be provided to the Journeymanlings?
Would these be fair battle magic effects for Ranald sorcery, stealing magic, forcing rerolls and allowing rerolls? Perhaps with a bit of a gambling effect added in to some of the type so roll a 1 and you get a negative effect instead, roll a 4 you get a bonus.
removed line for now atleast
Do you think something could be set up with the dwarfs to make grounding staffs for wizards, i.e. a system where the colleges can request some and offer payment to any willing dwarf Runesmith
Since we are setting up at 8 Peaks can we start researching the magic snake juice with the dwarfs and perhaps sell some of it?
Would our wizard tower be designed for visiting wizards as well?
You instinctively channel Ulgu along any weapon you wield. Any weapon held by you counts as Magical.
Personally, interested in keeping a great weapon, in particular great sword, as our primary weapon so that she can basically become a miniloremaster. Not a master of multiple winds of course, but a master swordsman wielding a great/longsword and being a master mage. For this, well rune of parrying to mirror the defensive ability (not granting parry against ranged attacks but in melee well it makes it harder for most to hit her)… thematically more interested in a very fast greatsword than very powerful
Also, when it comes to money, I understand that Maximilian helped with the coins, maybe some extra gold should be provided to the Journeymanlings?
Would these be fair battle magic effects for Ranald sorcery, stealing magic, forcing rerolls and allowing rerolls? Perhaps with a bit of a gambling effect added in to some of the type so roll a 1 and you get a negative effect instead, roll a 4 you get a bonus.
removed line for now atleast
Do you think something could be set up with the dwarfs to make grounding staffs for wizards, i.e. a system where the colleges can request some and offer payment to any willing dwarf Runesmith
Since we are setting up at 8 Peaks can we start researching the magic snake juice with the dwarfs and perhaps sell some of it?
Would our wizard tower be designed for visiting wizards as well?
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- Location
- Brazil
Guys, please. "Mayor" is a tongue-in-cheek description, the position is essentially Leader of the K8P Watch.
It's absolution fantastic for our other job as spymaster, and it's infinitely more time-critical than the papers. Because the papers can be done at any time, becoming the founding leader of the Undumgi is now or never.
A research option is already winning the vote.
It's absolution fantastic for our other job as spymaster, and it's infinitely more time-critical than the papers. Because the papers can be done at any time, becoming the founding leader of the Undumgi is now or never.
A research option is already winning the vote.
Nope, the point of the axe is that wood is good at conducting magic, drastically more so than metal, and we can separate the Killy bits from the magical conducting bits. Not so with a sword.
To do that, we need to be in charge from the start.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My point is that if we don't want to take command, then there's much less reason to take the option. It's a great choice if we do want to take command, but otherwise it's much less useful.
First off, we know that some of them will be leaving sooner than later. Esbern and Seija will leave unless we give them temporary jobs here. Panoramia might leave as soon as her job with the Moot is finished. And Johann will leave after he finishes his Skaven investigation.
Also, you're being silly if you don't think our Journeymanlings won't be writing their own papers ASAP. They don't have a research backlog like we do, and if we don't pull them together as a group then they're going to be competing with us and each other to publish things first. Academics can be very cutthroat!
- Location
- Brazil
Guys, think long term.
We are setting ourselves up for the long haul here, a paper we write a couple turns earlier than otherwise is neat, a position of authority over the greatest human force in K8P, which will be the single military force in charge of a significant portion of the newest Silk Road is a magnificent opportunity which we simply won't be getting again in the foreseeable future.
We are setting ourselves up for the long haul here, a paper we write a couple turns earlier than otherwise is neat, a position of authority over the greatest human force in K8P, which will be the single military force in charge of a significant portion of the newest Silk Road is a magnificent opportunity which we simply won't be getting again in the foreseeable future.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It's not a town and we're not going to be the mayor, not yet. It's like how we aren't calling the tower option the magister Lord option despite our research probably helping with that.
These are the root options that might become something more, but they're also time limited opportunities in and of themselves. If we miss out on picking a spot to find the best one some people are going to call dibs. If we don't go with Belegar to watch the grudges being struck out, we won't get to visit the Karaz-a-Karak. And if we don't help out with making sure everyone gets settled, somebody else is, and we're going to have to deal with them everytime we try to do something, which is like the exact opposite of delegation.
These are the root options that might become something more, but they're also time limited opportunities in and of themselves. If we miss out on picking a spot to find the best one some people are going to call dibs. If we don't go with Belegar to watch the grudges being struck out, we won't get to visit the Karaz-a-Karak. And if we don't help out with making sure everyone gets settled, somebody else is, and we're going to have to deal with them everytime we try to do something, which is like the exact opposite of delegation.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So I was swayed to the undumgi vote for a couple of reasons: It was mentioned that by being a Wizard with research, the spymaster looking out at our boss' enemies, and setting up with the Undumgi we'd basically have pur old job under the different context raised to a different scale. Next being a part of the Undumgi aparatus and society means that we can setup the Deathwatch and generally make sure Death Pass is patrolled and secure which is very helpful to Belegar and a great way to get news from trade caravans as a very strong informational channel for the Old World. And it means we have influence over a force that needs to keep in mind Black Crag which is a nearby point of interest and one of the greatest Goblin and Orc strong holds in the World's Edge Mountains. And a nice leaping off point for us mucking about around there which has great synergy with our spymaster focus.
And after further thought I realized I don't want to add yet more research to what we're already doing when we have conceivably five Big Projects to deal with. The Juice, the book, the Coin, Ranaldian Theurgy/Sorcery, the Waystones. I am okay with keeping an eye on Johann and making sure we don't need to bust his ass for Article 7 but I don't want it to be the focus, beyond the admittedly high level of focus the Slaven will already be getting from Belegar and us.
And after further thought I realized I don't want to add yet more research to what we're already doing when we have conceivably five Big Projects to deal with. The Juice, the book, the Coin, Ranaldian Theurgy/Sorcery, the Waystones. I am okay with keeping an eye on Johann and making sure we don't need to bust his ass for Article 7 but I don't want it to be the focus, beyond the admittedly high level of focus the Slaven will already be getting from Belegar and us.
Why would Mathilde want to be the leader of K8P watch? Spying internally is mostly focused on the Skaven/Greenskins that occupy K8P; there's no reason to suborn the watch unless you fear internal dissent for some reason. The reason Mathilde commanded the watch in Stirland was to ward vampire conspiracies.
EDIT: Besides, I remember back when Mathilde was Stirland's spymistress that she constantly didn't have as much time as we wanted to research, so taking responsibility for more stuff means there would be less time to dedicate to the other choices.
EDIT: Besides, I remember back when Mathilde was Stirland's spymistress that she constantly didn't have as much time as we wanted to research, so taking responsibility for more stuff means there would be less time to dedicate to the other choices.
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