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Nobody is talking exterminatus here. We are talking it costing political goodwill among Imperial institutions when we have ambitions to advance in one of them. The Ulrican dominance in the northern provinces absolutely does cost them political goodwill in the Sigmaite dominated south.
The institution we are trying to advance in is very pointedly agnostic and doesn't have the best relations with the cult of Sigmar. Thankfully, Reiner Starke is not yet the grey patriarch.
 
To me, the contentious vote comes down to 'Would I rather read about Mathilde writing an academic paper, or would I rather interact with the wolf-lads and the hard-as-stone adventurers?'

So I went back and edited in a vote for getting them settled.
Or with less bias:
Do we want to focus on interactions with nameless mercs and the Wolf guy who thinks we are here to be the Greatsword of Damocles?
Or do we want to focus on interacting with our Journeymanlings and actively pursue researchers for the Collage?

Personally I far prefer the Journeymanlings and being a Wizard than a suspicious knight and a total unknown while being a steward.
 
OK guys I'm going to put this bluntly, actively suppressing the cult of Sigmar either openly or in secret would take measures that to a modern understanding amount to religious persecution. Are we willing to make Mathilde the sort of character who would do that?

I know I'm not. I would certainly vote to promote Ranald, hell even to promote Ulric, but not supress the cult of Sigmar.
 
It's going to take Y E A R S to reclaim all of Karak Eight Peaks. If we stay now, we're going to stay until the job is done. Leaving later, for any significant length of time, would be like leaving a job half-finished.

I don't WANT to stay here for the next couple of years.
Not that past results are proof of future performance... but you do realize at the current rate taking the peaks will be around half a week of battle followed by months of sitting around waiting for reinforments?
More like Fall of Poland than Fall of France, really
Poland got squished between the over powered Nazi war-machine and an infinite number of communist monkeys... and still managed to generate a tale of defensive awesomeness with like 3000 guys versus 150-200 thousand... meanwhile France only lasted as long as it did because it took so long to cross it.... also the world was reeling over the inexplicable true that Belgium had an army in the first place... then France made them look like gods of combat.
We didn't manage to purchase the enchanting equipment for our lab until turn 9. At which point the campaign to clear the hills was rapidly approaching. We had a lot on our plate.
*suddenly dozens of paniked Tzechian mages storm the 8 peaks from all the wrong directions in an attempt to stop the growth of the bring of war goes faster. Planning fast enough to slow her down is attrition incarnate*
I honestly love that, both the idea, and the catch phrase. I wonder if a human has ever experimented with literally magical alcohol before?
This just makes me think MC ends up brewing a snek juice laced booze that give you ablative magic resistance when drunk... but also causes your hair to do its best to poof up in an afro that is moving psychedelic yawn colored and colored based on the local prevalent mystic Winds. The real issue is hats and helm tend to fly off if your hair is too long.
Well, there was that plan to marry lots of wizards into the nobility. We could revisit that
Yeah that? That sounds like a way to end up with a lot of random ex-nobel mages in the future. I expect that to go about as well as ditching spare nobels into the priesthood of the Catholic Church... AKA a ban on mages having kids so entiled twits can't donate all the Colleges stuff to their offspring.
Correction: Having her journeymanlings write a paper. And frankly, I think that's hilarious.
Its only really a good idea if MC makes a separate research paper on the effects of randomly chosen vaguely worded advice on the paper writing abilities of mages of other winds.
I hope you're wrong. France was on the winning side, after all. And the idea of a successful Orc Résistance is hilarious but also horrible.
You never see a purple Orc...
That would involve 85-90% or the orcs trying to become dwarves or humans while 10-15% of the orcs form the resistance and are supported by outside orc groups. After that whole only Gork thing they are going to get purged for being insane.
Somebody pointed out that some contributors lost upwards of 20% of their forces, a figure that would absolutely destroy a historical real-world army.

Warhammer, and especially dawi, are made of sterner stuff I suppose.
In addition to what vsm said, that doesn't include is was 20% loses AFTER four different conquests. So its 1/20(5%) loses the first battle and 1/19(5.3%) then 1/18(5.6%) then 1/17(5.9%)... assuming the loses are averaged out. Considering the other side was basically completely obliterated on each of those battles, that was some insane Kill-to-Death ratios going on.

Though the tactical implications of 'Grey wizard unitnentionally offs the a war boss and makes them ineffectual at the leading' I'm not sure the tactics books can really add much new from these battles.
 
OK guys I'm going to put this bluntly, actively suppressing the cult of Sigmar either openly or in secret would take measures that to a modern understanding amount to religious persecution. Are we willing to make Mathilde the sort of character who would do that?

I know I'm not. I would certainly vote to promote Ranald, hell even to promote Ulric, but not supress the cult of Sigmar.

This was what I was trying to say earlier with a certain comment. Thank you for managing to say my thoughts better than I ever could have.
 
'Make'? Mathilde is this person, owing to the trauma in her past. Its a flaw that humanizes her, and entirely understandable considering how useless and awful the Sigmarite cult can be. It is what it is.
Or with less bias:
Do we want to focus on interactions with nameless mercs and the Wolf guy who thinks we are here to be the Greatsword of Damocles?
Or do we want to focus on interacting with our Journeymanlings and actively pursue researchers for the Collage?
That definitely sounds unbiased to me what do you guys think
 
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That... really doesn't seem comparable. Mathilde's disdain isn't for Sigmarites, it's for Sigmar, the actual extant god, who she feels is unworthy of worship.

Hell, Van Hal was a Sigmarite. She's not gonna treat people who believe in Sigmar as second class citizens, she's gonna encourage faith in other (more worthy) gods.
Heck, she grudgingly allowed Kasmir to say a prayer over her.
 
OK guys I'm going to put this bluntly, actively suppressing the cult of Sigmar either openly or in secret would take measures that to a modern understanding amount to religious persecution. Are we willing to make Mathilde the sort of character who would do that?

I know I'm not. I would certainly vote to promote Ranald, hell even to promote Ulric, but not supress the cult of Sigmar.
No. At least I am not. In the same time, I don't it will be necessary - cult of Sigmar is already all but absent from our territory, we merely need to give it rivals a good headstart in establishing themselves and that should be enough.
 
Never mind that we will of course be pushing for Ranald's prominence in this new town and that we will be playing nice with Ulricans, but I am still salty af that the anti-Sigmar consequence won all those months ago.
 
Not saying hating Sigmar isn't the right thing, but publicly going against him isn't a good idea. An Ancestor God gifted him with a weapon, which made him True Dawongr. We have yet to get there and it would also completely alienate us from the Empire.
I get your point, but Sigmar didn't get Ghal Maraz from an Ancestor God. He got it from the High King, as by the time Sigmar was around the Ancestor Gods had been gone for millennia, and the Karaz Ankor had already entered its decline.
 
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Never mind that we will of course be pushing for Ranald's prominence in this new town and that we will be playing nice with Ulricans, but I am still salty af that the anti-Sigmar consequence won all those months ago.
It was that, or alcoholism. And at least we can dance around being anti-Sigmar.
 
'Make'? Mathilde is this person, owing to the trauma in her past. Its a flaw that humanizes her, and entirely understandable considering how useless and awful the Sigmarite cult can be. It is what it is.

People can rise above the worst impulses of their nature too. Also I can't believe I have to say this, but everything one might dislike about the cult of Sigmar, the cult of Ulric is actually worse, these are the people who think you should be fighting Chaos Warriors hand to hand because guns are unmanly.
 
People.

I'm going to strongly suggest that we keep it civil and avoid taking personal pot-shots here. None of us want the thread locked.

I also think it's safe to say, given his track record, that BoneyM won't take this quest places where it violates Rule 2.
 
That seems highly questionable. We're a Grey Magister - on paper, we're not supposed to get involved with religion at all. And the major faith here is Ulric, which neatly explains the lack of organized Sigmar worship - hell, the Grand Master may end up offering us favours to keep the Cult of Sigmar out, not realizing we'd do it for free.
And then we assassinate him because that shit don't fly. Active conflict between imperial cults is not in the imperial interest.
The institution we are trying to advance in is very pointedly agnostic and doesn't have the best relations with the cult of Sigmar. Thankfully, Reiner Starke is not yet the grey patriarch.
And this will hardly improve those relations. Or indeed improve Sigmarite disdain for mages. We don't have to like them or their god to acknowledge they have both power and influence in areas we care about.
No. At least I am not. In the same time, I don't it will be necessary - cult of Sigmar is already all but absent from our territory, we merely need to give it rivals a good headstart in establishing themselves and that should be enough.
A large potential congregation, many of whom are from Sigmarite provinces, a Dwarf connection, passing trade from caravan guards - Priests will come.
 
The Empire never declared Exterminatus on anything. We aren't the Imperium and the Empire isn't the Imperium.

Right, so all we need to do is avoid the three failure conditions: mechanical, character, and ethical. Mechanical is triggering the malus by not having a religion other than Sigmar aligned with her institutions. Ulrican and Renaldian covers that nicely, and preserves the status quo from our past actions. Character is letting our cold-blooded optimization overrule Mathilde's ascribed distain for Sigmar, which is a definite penalty to interacting with devout sigmarites that we definitely voted for as a thread, so we need to be honest to it. Ethical is letting our distain for Sigmar the god to spill over into disparate treatment for sigmarites worshipers, which as you pointed out is the difficult trap to avoid; being ethical is hard and takes work.
 
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Given the Ulrican slant towards forthrightness in battle and life and disdain for cowardice, followers of Ulric distrust the followers of Ranald, the god of thievery and luck.

I think that Mathilde wouldn't... necessarily support the Cult of Ulric, as if they found out who she worships, they'd think she's barely better than a Tzeenchi plotter.
 
Given the Ulrican slant towards forthrightness in battle and life and disdain for cowardice, followers of Ulric distrust the followers of Ranald, the god of thievery and luck.

I think that Mathilde wouldn't... necessarily support the Cult of Ulric, as if they found out who she worships, they'd think she's barely better than a Tzeenchi plotter.
These are surprisingly chill ulricans. Their cult is anti-magic to an even larger degree than Sigmarism, yet they were quite fine working with amberlings. I am cautiously hopeful.

Besides, we need the backing, or at least grudging acceptance, of one of the two premiere cults, and Sigmarites are a no-go due to personal issues.

Weren't there like 4-5 different options?

Besides, alcoholism would have only made us even more Dawongr.
Yes, but those were the only ones which had a chance of winning. And alcoholism would be insanely disruptive to our work schedule, not to mention the horrific (if hilarious) possibility of drunkcasting.
 
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Thinking of the potential research topics that have opened up, I'd say that we should expect:

Mathilde's Map
Anti-Greenskin dispelling techniques
Using a god to earth miscasts.
Sorcery
Magic mushrooms.
The Anvil of Doom
The Only Gork ritual

All of these would be valuable, and would hopefully earn College Favour.

We also want to get Johann and Maximilian's buff spells to help write then, which is an extra reason to do it now.
 
Given the Ulrican slant towards forthrightness in battle and life and disdain for cowardice, followers of Ulric distrust the followers of Ranald, the god of thievery and luck.

I think that Mathilde wouldn't... necessarily support the Cult of Ulric, as if they found out who she worships, they'd think she's barely better than a Tzeenchi plotter.
What a god is is always a bit flexible. Belegar thinks Ranald is a god of Rangers. We can make that happen in truth. It's not so far removed from what he already is. And I think the Ulricans would respect that.

In a way it helps to be different, because you're not competing for the same niche. I think that's a big chunk of why Ulric and Sigmar are at each others throat so often: Too similar. You wouldn't see the same with Shallya and Ulric, because you worship them for completely different things.
 
Thinking of the potential research topics that have opened up, I'd say that we should expect:

Mathilde's Map
Anti-Greenskin dispelling techniques
Using a god to earth miscasts.
Sorcery
Magic mushrooms.
The Anvil of Doom
The Only Gork ritual

All of these would be valuable, and would hopefully earn College Favour.

We also want to get Johann and Maximilian's buff spells to help write then, which is an extra reason to do it now.

I don't think we should talk about sorcery yet, not before we have something concrete to show for it. It's a very unorthodox, the sort of thing that needs extraordinary proof to make an impression.
 
Thinking of the potential research topics that have opened up, I'd say that we should expect:

Mathilde's Map
Anti-Greenskin dispelling techniques
Using a god to earth miscasts.
Sorcery
Magic mushrooms.
The Anvil of Doom
The Only Gork ritual

All of these would be valuable, and would hopefully earn College Favour.

We also want to get Johann and Maximilian's buff spells to help write then, which is an extra reason to do it now.
I'd say that half of those go into 'do not talk about ever' pile (Using a god to earth miscasts., Sorcery, The Only Gork ritual), magic mushroms are plain unresearched - leave them be, and the anvil of doom looks more like a classified report than a public article (Krag must never know!).

I'd say a theoretical paper on the nature of Waagh energy and several shorter papers with practical anti-waagh techniques which heavily reference the theoretical paper.
 
Thinking of the potential research topics that have opened up, I'd say that we should expect:

Mathilde's Map
Anti-Greenskin dispelling techniques
Using a god to earth miscasts.
Sorcery
Magic mushrooms.
The Anvil of Doom
The Only Gork ritual

All of these would be valuable, and would hopefully earn College Favour.

We also want to get Johann and Maximilian's buff spells to help write then, which is an extra reason to do it now.
A note on college favors: Research isn't actually a great way to get them, at least from what we've seen. The Matrix got us 1 as base, and 1 for each other order that adapted it. Graduating was 1 base, plus 4 (2 for duel, 2 general) for performance. Donating the Shysh-Kebaps was another 2. So giving cool shit or doing impressive things seems to work better, at least effort to result wise. Not that we should right up our stuff, I just don't think it's the most efficient way to get favor.

Another thing: We might get a favor for mastering all the spells, since that's an impressive feat and a sign of great magic.
 
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