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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I know Mathilde won't be able to claim them, I'm trying to find out what happens to them for example the gold will be looted by the locals which I approve of and the magic books will be destroyed which is a bit of a shame but OK. I was told the other items would be destroyed though and wanted to know why Mathilde would want to destroy the other stuff.
I'm not sure which one of you is correct though, although I only recall reading a mention of destroying the magic books. We might have just missed it being explicitly mentioned everything else will be destroyed though.
This is a possible result but assuming EVA-Saiyajin is wrong and they're not destroyed it should be noted that we killed all the necromancers and it's unlikely much of the populace will be happy to see anyone who helped them get off free. So it seems equally probably they'll be held in storage to be given to authorities, or have someone who's literate find everyone in the ledgers and organize a vigiliante squad or just for the books to be burnt in anger.
Basically I'm wondering who's going to be coming back for all the pegasi corpses, the dragon bones and anything else we missed. At a minimum someone needs to head over there and destroy them to prevent another necromancer using them, but I could also see someone selling the corpses to the University or something for dissection or the Colleges for ingredients. Sure Mathilde won't be able to keep these things for herself if she doesn't loot them now but then who benefits from acquiring this stuff and who's coming back for it? I assume Stirland and the Dwarfs and as fast as possible to grab whatever cut they can get whether in terms of gold or prestige.
I don't think it would take long for the gyrocopter to go back for example and I'd imagine the Dwarfs would really like grabbing whatever gold they can that hasn't been looted. It'll probably take a while for the peasants to smash, burn and loot everything after we leave especially considering how scary the place is which means there's a period of time in which the Dwarfs can strike it rich.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Let's not try and argue around this.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
So why would Mathilde want to investigate those things? She has so much on her plate already with K8P and her growing spy network in EIC. What would she get?
I'm not. Don't imply that I am.
I'm asking people's opinions on what will happen to the items that we leave because that's extremely relevant to decision making. It's on topic and relevant to discussion. Not something to attempt to block off.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hypothetically possible, but... someone killed Gabriella the vampiress. Gabriella the conspirator was in position to take up the reigns with nobody but Albus Hungergore being the wiser. That sort of thing doesn't just happen. If the conspirator didn't kill the vampiress, the question of who did remains unresolved.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
So you asked why Mathilde would destroy the stuff she didn't take.
If you want to speculate on what will happen to the stuff we don't take that is a very different question. For the dragon bone they may try to sell it for some coins. Or they could try and impress their friends with 'hunting' trophies. For the gold they almost certainly fight each other over that. The dangerous books we will burn. The ledgers may be severely damaged in the fighting for gold or be burned for warmth given that Mathilde noticed a lack of good wood here. I don't know what the proof of the 'college' would be but it would also be looted and dragged off somewhere.
[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[ ] Detailed trade ledgers.
While I can easily understand why the first is winning, I'm a bit baffled on the second. BoneyM has explained that benefits for the options exist in the update; and us neutralizing a threat that would require the Emperor's personal attention, multiple Battlewizards, armies mustered and marched, potentially a crusade from the Grand Theogenist - and it still wouldn't actually kill all the Necromancers with the Necrarch potentially escaping too allowing whatever knowledge they acquired to be passed down for generations. This matters, this threat could have been Empire shaking. A College of Necromancy constantly churning out threats, gathering and refining knowledge and experience making them even better, in comparison to the current status quo where most Necromancers operate in isolation and hidden.
This was an Empire level threat, and we smothered it in it's grave with extreme prejudice. We annihilated all practitioners on site, killed the Necrarch, and likely even crippled the idea in it's infancy so it won't be attempted again for at the very least Mathilde's lifetime. Empire/Emperor favors, college favors, religious favors; this mattered, and means in the future our ascension to Wizard Lord or even just access to the restricted tomes of knowledge and spells that the College of Magic has becomes easier for us.
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This says a lot about the Trade Ledgers vote though. Merchants operate on a risk/reward spectrum, and just this paragraph alone should emphasize that the wealth isn't that great, and the risk is overwhelming. They already face threats of bandits, wild/dhar creatures roaming Stirland and Sylvania, peasants finding out who you trade with (burning), peasants finding out you're not willing to trade at a good price with them given the status of merchants in feudal societies (death), and added to all of that is the threat that the Vampires or Necromancers may just kill you anyway, the Witch Hunters if they found out will definitely kill you, the religious authorities if they found out will definitely kill you ... the sheer risk is monumental. Realistically you'd have to be desperate, be coopted by the Vampires, or just forced through threats of violence; or be a merchant who's Ranaldian given you're gambling on just shit odds.
Also influencing this is that merchants tend to operate on a local basis; so local merchant trades with another local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, and somewhere in the line someone trades with Vampires - or not even necessarily that just with the populace of a Vampire ruled town or village. There shouldn't be a grand conspiracy or cartel to sweep up, just individuals so this should very much just be a local affair.
Over time this is also a problem that solves itself as merchants feel the risk becomes too great and stop, the rewards elsewhere become better and stop, the Stirlander army approaches and they stop, Stirland government investigates or the Witch Hunters investigate and find out and either imprison or kill you .... this problem will attrition itself over time. Our focus on it shouldn't be needed.
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[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
This is a unique opportunity. Necrach vampires overall modus operandi are researching subjects of their interest for centuries, and notably what they obviously favor is the nature of their own existence as well as the use of Dhar given it's fundamental nature in their spells and how some transition from feeding on blood to subsidizing on Dhar itself.
We're honestly not going to get a better opportunity to get a good look at these subjects, and both those subjects can provide great insights elsewhere. The nature of Vampirism, the nature of the soul, and how Vampires feed are all interrelated - and Necarch's should fundamentally have a higher degree of knowledge on the subject given they posses spirit/soul sight with some even trying to recreate the Elixer of Life itself. Even without mentioning any potential paths this can take us such as Elixer shenanigens/killing Vampires easier/location of prominent Vampires and their names, this is likely to provide an overall bonus to Vampire rolls we ever take in the future. Vampire Lore on Vampires written by Vampire scholar with soul sight + 34 learning + unknown magic and research traits can't really be beaten, so there's also a chance for additional favour in the future from providing copies of the books to others.
Understanding Dhar itself is also important for us given our own experiments with the Vitae, greater understanding of the nature of the winds and how they congeal in general, use of Dhar by spell casters thus our ability it disrupt it in the future, and also should be helpful against the Skaven themselves. This should also be a helpful supplement to what we learned from Van Hal's book given that focused overwhelmingly on Shyish + Dhar; where as a Vampire they can use multiple winds of magic so could have experimented with it.
[ ] Detailed trade ledgers.
While I can easily understand why the first is winning, I'm a bit baffled on the second. BoneyM has explained that benefits for the options exist in the update; and us neutralizing a threat that would require the Emperor's personal attention, multiple Battlewizards, armies mustered and marched, potentially a crusade from the Grand Theogenist - and it still wouldn't actually kill all the Necromancers with the Necrarch potentially escaping too allowing whatever knowledge they acquired to be passed down for generations. This matters, this threat could have been Empire shaking. A College of Necromancy constantly churning out threats, gathering and refining knowledge and experience making them even better, in comparison to the current status quo where most Necromancers operate in isolation and hidden.
This was an Empire level threat, and we smothered it in it's grave with extreme prejudice. We annihilated all practitioners on site, killed the Necrarch, and likely even crippled the idea in it's infancy so it won't be attempted again for at the very least Mathilde's lifetime. Empire/Emperor favors, college favors, religious favors; this mattered, and means in the future our ascension to Wizard Lord or even just access to the restricted tomes of knowledge and spells that the College of Magic has becomes easier for us.
-------------------
This says a lot about the Trade Ledgers vote though. Merchants operate on a risk/reward spectrum, and just this paragraph alone should emphasize that the wealth isn't that great, and the risk is overwhelming. They already face threats of bandits, wild/dhar creatures roaming Stirland and Sylvania, peasants finding out who you trade with (burning), peasants finding out you're not willing to trade at a good price with them given the status of merchants in feudal societies (death), and added to all of that is the threat that the Vampires or Necromancers may just kill you anyway, the Witch Hunters if they found out will definitely kill you, the religious authorities if they found out will definitely kill you ... the sheer risk is monumental. Realistically you'd have to be desperate, be coopted by the Vampires, or just forced through threats of violence; or be a merchant who's Ranaldian given you're gambling on just shit odds.
Also influencing this is that merchants tend to operate on a local basis; so local merchant trades with another local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, who trades with a local merchant, and somewhere in the line someone trades with Vampires - or not even necessarily that just with the populace of a Vampire ruled town or village. There shouldn't be a grand conspiracy or cartel to sweep up, just individuals so this should very much just be a local affair.
Over time this is also a problem that solves itself as merchants feel the risk becomes too great and stop, the rewards elsewhere become better and stop, the Stirlander army approaches and they stop, Stirland government investigates or the Witch Hunters investigate and find out and either imprison or kill you .... this problem will attrition itself over time. Our focus on it shouldn't be needed.
----------------------
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
This is a unique opportunity. Necrach vampires overall modus operandi are researching subjects of their interest for centuries, and notably what they obviously favor is the nature of their own existence as well as the use of Dhar given it's fundamental nature in their spells and how some transition from feeding on blood to subsidizing on Dhar itself.
We're honestly not going to get a better opportunity to get a good look at these subjects, and both those subjects can provide great insights elsewhere. The nature of Vampirism, the nature of the soul, and how Vampires feed are all interrelated - and Necarch's should fundamentally have a higher degree of knowledge on the subject given they posses spirit/soul sight with some even trying to recreate the Elixer of Life itself. Even without mentioning any potential paths this can take us such as Elixer shenanigens/killing Vampires easier/location of prominent Vampires and their names, this is likely to provide an overall bonus to Vampire rolls we ever take in the future. Vampire Lore on Vampires written by Vampire scholar with soul sight + 34 learning + unknown magic and research traits can't really be beaten, so there's also a chance for additional favour in the future from providing copies of the books to others.
Understanding Dhar itself is also important for us given our own experiments with the Vitae, greater understanding of the nature of the winds and how they congeal in general, use of Dhar by spell casters thus our ability it disrupt it in the future, and also should be helpful against the Skaven themselves. This should also be a helpful supplement to what we learned from Van Hal's book given that focused overwhelmingly on Shyish + Dhar; where as a Vampire they can use multiple winds of magic so could have experimented with it.
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- Location
- his hidden lair
We don't care. That's sounds blithe but the fact is trust goes both ways. Mathilde is alive because the Grey Order trusts her- the Grey Order raised and taught Mathilde almost everything she knows and is probably her highest loyalty. If the secret police you are a member of say 'don't worry fam, we fucked em' up for you' you believe them because the alternative is literally rejecting a substantial part of who you are and turning your back on your proverbial family who can now no longer trust you because you clearly don't believe in them and thus are obligated to kill you.
It's a little less extreme than that- but the point is Mathilde might believe other Greys are cagey with her- but she and every other single Grey all believe they are acting in each other's collective interest with bone deep certainty. It's the bedrock of the Greys who are to some extent one of the most insular Colleges in terms of actual trust.
As for Hexensohn? That's a loose end but it's beyond our pay grade and off the beaten path. Let our Patriarch and Magister Lords deal with the political headache that is.
On the topic of the vote: I honestly thought that three different mystery boxes and the components of future artefacts would utterly demolish a voucher for Imperial back-pats and a merchant hit-list. I won't always get it right and not every vote will turn into a down-to-the-wire knife-fight. And while it's possible that the explanations tipped the votes, it's equally possible that people are choosing patriotism and influence over forbidden knowledge and a kicking rad dragon skull.
It would take time for the news to filter back to Altdorf from those directly in the imminent danger radius, but it would do so.
Going into Advanced without dedicating time to learning it is much harder than reaching basic competence.
List of available classes at the Grey College is available in the Collection of Important Information threadmark under College Rep.
Skills now increase base attributes. Otherwise the sums would start to take up entire lines.
Yes, though presumably Alkharad was in the bear itself.
Yes.
When Dhar is involved it doesn't follow the normal power scale. Instead of becoming gradually more powerful, they just become less likely to die to miscasts. But the best of them were reliably casting single-target versions of Battle Magic, albeit under the direct supervision and instruction of Alkharad.
In tabletop terms, he was Lord level but not Special Character Lord level.
Dread Aspect didn't have a chance to intervene because the clashes were almost entirely at a distance and Alkharad was bullshit fast. If he had decided that his spite towards Mathilde was more important than his spite towards the Lhamians, it would probably have kicked in to try to fight off his armless biting attack. Not every possible weapon will be used in every fight.
Tabletop stats have not been updated with Branulhune, as it says in bold capitals at the top of the tabletop stats. I have now also applied an underline.
They are weak in specific areas on the battlefield, but it'd be rather bold to take that to mean they're weak overall. Mathilde will focus entirely on information gathering.
Not off the top of my head. They're not mentioned much in canon, but it makes sense as they'd be very rarely performed, and lesser elemental spirit-daemon-things exist.
The Ambers don't care for money, the Amethysts in general tend towards the austere (though exceptions exist), and the Light Order tend to be rather holier-than-thou about it. For other Colleges, favour are more of a parallel economy rather than a replacement. College Favours come with the implication that you can be trusted with whatever you buy with them, so it can buy a lot of things that gold can't.
Quite a few. Mathilde isn't the only one that follows the spirit rather than the letter of the Vow, and 'building a wizard tower' is always accepted as a valid reason to acquire material wealth.
Abelhelm was skilled at wielding intimidation and authority. If he left that comfort zone he'd flounder quick, but he very rarely did.
This would completely shatter every rule in the Articles of Imperial Magic about not teaching magic secrets to non-wizards. If you want a scribe, get a Perpetual Apprentice, costs for which are in the threadmark.
Most people tend to get stuck in their ways as they get older. Wilhelmina likely would have plateaued at some point if she remained Steward.
For obvious reasons, the exact mechanisms and possibly spells used to gauge loyalty are hidden to those that are being measured with them.
Technically, not very. For reasons of respect, it would probably be done by the best one available.
College gets the lot.
He doesn't get a malus, but nor does he benefit from things like Mathilde's narrative bonus from the Lore skill and diceroll bonus from the Strategy skill.
If it was being hidden due to malarky rather than just Dwarven taciturnity, that's how I'd do it. But if there's not much at stake I'd rather reveal the raw dice roll and let the modified result be implied by the test.
The exact mechanism being used is unknown, both to Mathilde and, as far as she knows, to the Colleges.
Directly control. Necromancers can easily point a bunch of animated corpses in a general direction and tell them to start flailing, but Alkharad was going for quality rather than quantity.
Having Magic 0.1 is sufficient to use dark magic and necromancy. That's part of what makes it so incredibly dangerous.
If trade-offs can be made I'll lay out the mechanics of them. I assumed that Mathilde wouldn't decide to leave Belegar's royal bodyguards behind so she could take more loot.
Mostly handled by the Order of the Guardians, who have a similar set-up to the Amethyst College. Actively and spitefully preventing their resurrection every time it's tried is incredibly satisfying to Dwarves.
Lucky break.
Eye-for-an-eye rather than being able to redouble the impact. It's better against conventional weapons that mess up a general area than it is against precise strikes that have minimal collateral damage.
It's already been added to Mathilde's trophies. She likes the idea of having a skull shelf.
Simpsons did it first.
It will fall off on its own after a few hours, unless she picks at it.
Not often, but the techniques are still remembered.
Necrarchs usually take Nehekharan names, even those with no direct connection to it.
Well spotted. Fixed.
Normal 24 hours. The enforced break is actually really good at keeping burnout at bay.
More or less. If I break 4k and I'm not even halfway through the to-do list I start to look for natural conclusions to the update and things that might be put to a vote.
I've explained what they are. I'm not going to give a WoG assessment of their value and future consequences.
Not unless she kicks in some of her own College Favours, and nothing about her suggests that she's accumulated any. It's also quite unlikely she'd agree to have one implanted.
Oh, right.
Also the surface entrance to Karak Drazh is to the west of Death's Crossing, if there's an elegant way to make that clear.
It would take time for the news to filter back to Altdorf from those directly in the imminent danger radius, but it would do so.
Going into Advanced without dedicating time to learning it is much harder than reaching basic competence.
List of available classes at the Grey College is available in the Collection of Important Information threadmark under College Rep.
Skills now increase base attributes. Otherwise the sums would start to take up entire lines.
Yes, though presumably Alkharad was in the bear itself.
Yes.
When Dhar is involved it doesn't follow the normal power scale. Instead of becoming gradually more powerful, they just become less likely to die to miscasts. But the best of them were reliably casting single-target versions of Battle Magic, albeit under the direct supervision and instruction of Alkharad.
In tabletop terms, he was Lord level but not Special Character Lord level.
Dread Aspect didn't have a chance to intervene because the clashes were almost entirely at a distance and Alkharad was bullshit fast. If he had decided that his spite towards Mathilde was more important than his spite towards the Lhamians, it would probably have kicked in to try to fight off his armless biting attack. Not every possible weapon will be used in every fight.
Tabletop stats have not been updated with Branulhune, as it says in bold capitals at the top of the tabletop stats. I have now also applied an underline.
They are weak in specific areas on the battlefield, but it'd be rather bold to take that to mean they're weak overall. Mathilde will focus entirely on information gathering.
Not off the top of my head. They're not mentioned much in canon, but it makes sense as they'd be very rarely performed, and lesser elemental spirit-daemon-things exist.
The Ambers don't care for money, the Amethysts in general tend towards the austere (though exceptions exist), and the Light Order tend to be rather holier-than-thou about it. For other Colleges, favour are more of a parallel economy rather than a replacement. College Favours come with the implication that you can be trusted with whatever you buy with them, so it can buy a lot of things that gold can't.
Quite a few. Mathilde isn't the only one that follows the spirit rather than the letter of the Vow, and 'building a wizard tower' is always accepted as a valid reason to acquire material wealth.
Abelhelm was skilled at wielding intimidation and authority. If he left that comfort zone he'd flounder quick, but he very rarely did.
This would completely shatter every rule in the Articles of Imperial Magic about not teaching magic secrets to non-wizards. If you want a scribe, get a Perpetual Apprentice, costs for which are in the threadmark.
Most people tend to get stuck in their ways as they get older. Wilhelmina likely would have plateaued at some point if she remained Steward.
For obvious reasons, the exact mechanisms and possibly spells used to gauge loyalty are hidden to those that are being measured with them.
Technically, not very. For reasons of respect, it would probably be done by the best one available.
College gets the lot.
He doesn't get a malus, but nor does he benefit from things like Mathilde's narrative bonus from the Lore skill and diceroll bonus from the Strategy skill.
If it was being hidden due to malarky rather than just Dwarven taciturnity, that's how I'd do it. But if there's not much at stake I'd rather reveal the raw dice roll and let the modified result be implied by the test.
The exact mechanism being used is unknown, both to Mathilde and, as far as she knows, to the Colleges.
Directly control. Necromancers can easily point a bunch of animated corpses in a general direction and tell them to start flailing, but Alkharad was going for quality rather than quantity.
Having Magic 0.1 is sufficient to use dark magic and necromancy. That's part of what makes it so incredibly dangerous.
If trade-offs can be made I'll lay out the mechanics of them. I assumed that Mathilde wouldn't decide to leave Belegar's royal bodyguards behind so she could take more loot.
Mostly handled by the Order of the Guardians, who have a similar set-up to the Amethyst College. Actively and spitefully preventing their resurrection every time it's tried is incredibly satisfying to Dwarves.
Lucky break.
Eye-for-an-eye rather than being able to redouble the impact. It's better against conventional weapons that mess up a general area than it is against precise strikes that have minimal collateral damage.
It's already been added to Mathilde's trophies. She likes the idea of having a skull shelf.
Simpsons did it first.
It will fall off on its own after a few hours, unless she picks at it.
Not often, but the techniques are still remembered.
Necrarchs usually take Nehekharan names, even those with no direct connection to it.
Well spotted. Fixed.
Normal 24 hours. The enforced break is actually really good at keeping burnout at bay.
More or less. If I break 4k and I'm not even halfway through the to-do list I start to look for natural conclusions to the update and things that might be put to a vote.
I've explained what they are. I'm not going to give a WoG assessment of their value and future consequences.
Not unless she kicks in some of her own College Favours, and nothing about her suggests that she's accumulated any. It's also quite unlikely she'd agree to have one implanted.
Oh, right.
Also the surface entrance to Karak Drazh is to the west of Death's Crossing, if there's an elegant way to make that clear.
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- Location
- Greece
1) Far too many responsibilities and hobbies for chasing after whimsy. What do you believe can be cut out from Mathilde's rather busy schedule?
2) The conspiracy is gone, in a rather final and gruesome manner.
3) The Grey Order and her past master in particular would not tell her. You want to poke something that apparently is kept at the highest levels. Poking it will not get us a pat on the back, rather the opposite.
4) Looking up what the Patriarch of another college cared for in Sylvania would paint her as overzealous at best and a traitor at worst with the entirety of the death mages. Plainly put, does not have the authority to question.
Comes down to how much she trusts her own Order, really. And that's not even getting into the consequences on K8P should this turn sour at any point. Being a Court Wizard, representation, goes both ways.
If eventually wanting 'a' truth, best bet would be to buckle down, make it to Magister Lord over long decades of loyal service and ask.
- Location
- [REDACTED]- United States of America
This is my understanding of the topic. Because while a Dragon skull and Necromantic artifices are 'cool shit', they are passe compared to strengthening the Empire as a whole and striking a blow at the dark forces that seek to tear the old world apart.
- Location
- Cardassia Prime
For me, the fact these books on vampires and their related winds of magic were written by a vampire seems like a major point against them, no way they'll be unbiased at the very least, and outright misleading and corruptive as a moderate possibility. Already think Mathilde is walking a narrow rope with the Liber Mortis, no point adding more weight to tip her over.
And yes as said above, they're cool shinies but they don't seem that special or exceptional as opposed to what you made seem like major buffs to Imperial stability, the EIC and hits against wide-spread vampiric infiltration, which seem to go a long way to advancing a promotion and influence.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wonder if this will be enough to upgrade us from "Those cursed with magic are dangerous...but not just to friends and innocents." in Roswita's mind.
Anyways, I really must get to bed as it's past 4. Damn this quest for being so awesome.
Anyways, I really must get to bed as it's past 4. Damn this quest for being so awesome.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Full blown phobias aren't simply reasoned away.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
For me at least, it's less about patriotism and influence and more that we already have a huge backlog of shinies and projects that are competing for time.
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Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
We just found an entire College worth of people cursed with magic that have wanted her dead since she even took the throne...
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe it reads like a political dissertation, with a catalogue of his enemies' weaknesses, and the various conspiracies of the undead world. Perhaps notes on Neferata's hidden war with Queen Khalida?
...Yeah, fuck it.
[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
Others have approached it from other directions but my understanding of it is basically:
-Dhar is like, raw uranium ore. It can do some weird shit, its dangerous as hell to be around and whatever you get it on is going to be permanently nasty. You'd probably get cancer pretty quick if you mishandled it.
-True Dhar is enriched plutonium. It can do everything Dhar does, except more powerful. You're probably dead if you mishandled it.
Also you can't make a Duel Disk without illusory holograms!Wait, hold up, this is pretty much exactly what I would think Ranald-based Shadow magic would have in place of battle magic or something.
It's got gambling, because it's a card game. It's got deceiving, because it's a card game. It's got theft, because it's a card game (with booster packs). It's got protecting, because it's a duel (using a card game). And it's got banishing people to the shadow realm (because it's Ulgu-based battle magic).
Or, more seriously, the deadly parts come from the shadow magic, but being able to couch everything in a magical card game sounds right up his alley.
Averland:
Depends, the Elector Count or the merchants?
The individual merchants are going to be epically pissy at their trade monopoly being YOINK'ed.
The state itself is apt to be more neutral, what they lose in the monopoly on the irregularly and frequently wiped out by orc trade through Blackfire pass they gain in the Stirland side trade which still passes through a river they control and tax.
They go from getting a large cut from an unreliable and small trickle to a small cut from a stable, large flow. See the baronies Anton roped into the EIC. Same deal.
Moot:
A Stirland with a surplus of cash means they're going to be buying a lot of stuff, like premium halfling produce for the upper class who'd rather not be eating warpstone laced native grains.
Stirland just plain isn't going to be competing with the Moot for food sales, and Stirland would be too busy stabbing undead for the next couple centuries in the forests, crypts and moors to present a military threat barring the Empire falling apart.
Furthermore, they have reason to expect Roswita to continue her father's legacy of positive dealings with the Halflings, knowing the Moot sent manpower when the Church of Sigmar did not is...sobering.
Strong undercurrent being 4-5 people talking about it to each other in a thread of over three hundred posters
That is true. I will reiterate I'm not against the Ledgers, I just want to be sure people are voting for it for the right reasons.
Right reasons:
-Narrative bookends.
-Most benefit for Stirland.
-Oppress traitors to humanity harder.
Wrong reasons:
-The books are useless.
-Stirland needs the ledgers to dismantle the trade network.
-Stirland needs the ledgers to beat the vampires.
To elaborate on the last point.
So, lets analyze the remaining vampire factions and what specifically they get from trade:
-Lahmians
--They're the intrigue specialists, and as we well know, intrigue must be funneled through natural movements of people. Dedicated messengers are too expensive to be running messages needed for the routine flow of messages unless your state is incredibly wealthy(as modern states are). You pass things along via merchants who are already making the routes and well they're as damned as you are if you get caught.
--They might know enough magic that ritual reagents are useful. Might.
-Blood Dragons
--Blood Dragons are eternal. Their equipment are not, and given vampiric strength, they're going to need a lot of replacement gear regularly for those without enchanted gear. Its possible that one of the Blood Dragons had a smithing hobby to supply their own people, but Sylvania is not known for rich mines that I can recall, if they want to keep being well armed they're going to need to quell their ardor or start looting. That said, it'd take decades(or a good defeat in the field) to actually get to the point where they can't get by with looting, reforging and recycling metal.
--Not a proper caster, relies on magic items. Presumably they buy these things on the black market.
-Strigoi
--Lives in the woods. Literally untouched.
None of them actually need black market trade networks to:
-Escape, vampires are pretty good at running away if they can overcome their massive ego.
-Feed their populations, too much volume needed to be smuggled realistically.
Essentially? The loss would be kind of a fuck you to the Lahmians, but only annoying to the Blood Dragons and the Strigoi won't even notice it. Don't overhype it.
Don't dismiss it!
It actually sounds a bit like degenerate matter to me.
If we had windstones of the eight winds, we probably could, but that really sounds like a process we could achieve without any snakejuice involvement.
Rarity takes into account what they're actually good for. If its dismantling the trade network, thats what the EIC routinely does anyway.
We do not need the ledgers to dismantle the trade network. The ledgers makes it happen quickly and efficiently, which is a desirable, useful but not necessary result.
By contrast the actually rare items are those literally not attainable by alternative means at all.
Already elaborated above. It mainly fucks the Lahmians, the rest are annoyed and inconvenienced but destroying the vampire trade network mainly hurt Necrarch and Lahmian forces, of which the Necrarch has been soundly fucked.
That said, purging dubious businessmen is its own good.
I just don't think its very urgent when we have other actors already going to do so in their own time.
This is a good point.
Not that I think being a boogeyman to illicit business concerns is important, but some might feel it is.
It will be helpful, but I don't think its critically helpful enough to overrule the other options.
We aren't the guy dealing with the mopup. That'd be the Witchhunter Spymaster.
Remember the vampire spies we caught who worked for the vampires because they were born to vampire rule and their families quite literally hostages to cooperation.
I dare say many of the merchants involved are going to be under some form of duress, plain greed or deception, rather than being fundamentally corrupt or evil, but under such circumstances examples WILL be made of them, all of them will be proclaiming innocence, but what ultimately kills them is that Roswita just plain has more important things to do than judge them individually.
That said I don't think this is significant either, maybe they don't have a choice, but it IS a war, and they're on the wrong team.
Oh definitely, I was intending to do the review post first, but once I saw the options I knew the options review HAS to come first, since theres two with clear and explicit benefits while the rest have speculation.
And anyone reading it has to land on it in one page out of thirty of just monovote.
Alkharad had to get his students somewhere, and the proof likely contains some information on how he gathered them. You don't get 60+ apprentice necromancers learning under you by sitting in a town being a badass necromancer. You actually need to go looking.
That said the proof is also very good for Belegar. He said to show the flag and make some waves...and make waves we did.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, that's a little naive of me.