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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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chocolote12 said:
Everyone, please listen to Veekie. Vampire books on Vampires from the Vampire faction that was friends with Nagash is ridiculous. It's irreplacable. Fighting the corruption of the merchants can be done by other people, with some decent rolls and a few simulated action points; it's nice to have, but not supernaturally good. Is there a cost for not taking it? Yes. But there's a cost for everything. Ferreting out corruption isn't nearly so hard as coming across Necrarch tomes.

On the other hand, this is lore straight from Nehekhara, about Vampires, by vampires, and vampires wrote the books on vampirism before they actually went and became them, because vampirism was originally an academic endeavor. If you want to know about the nature of the soul, this is your chance. If you want to know about what vampires really eat and why, here it is. If you want to create your own ascension ritual, stealing your notes from somebody who actually got somewhere is an excellent first step.

Yes, it's a gatcha roll. You know what? So was the Snake Juice, and the first roll we got, and it was a mediocre roll before we stacked the bonuses on it, let us get a shot at giving Kragg the Grim Ancestor Runes for every battle. As in, Storms of Magic style double battle magic. If these books are useless, they're useless. If they're amazing, they're amazing.
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I freely admit, the vampire books might offer a great deal of things we might not find elsewhere. The thing is, bacially every time we have a vote on forbidden lore or vampirism there is a strong undercurrent of people trying to use it as a foot in the door for necromancy and dark magic. Hard pass-that isn't what I'm interested in for this story, and the more 'amazing' they have the potential of being the bigger the headache will be from people insisting we should use the damned knowlege for things beyond approved paths.
 
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Nix's Warden said:
No. I don't care about the books on Vampires and Dhar, we're never going to go Vampire if we can help it, and we're never going to use Dhar unless its an apocalyptic Scenario and we have to use The Second Secret.

I don't care abit about Shyish, because its something we can ask the Amethyst College for, and Death Gods have nothing to do with our own divine Patron and Theugry Drive.

I don't care about books on Necromancy and the Undead because we have the fucking Liber Mortis in our tower in 8 Peaks, and anything that could possibly match or rival that, is going to be covered in bad juju cast by Manfred or worse Nagash himself. No thanks.



You assume that. This fucker is using a Nehekhara name. Guess what? That could just be something he chose to sound impressive. There is nothing shown IC that he is actually some ancient Nehekharian wiseman that has long lost lore. Its a pipe dream of people wishing for a Nat 100 and implying its anything else is lying to the other players.

I want the Proof of the College of Necromancy, because that is proof to the Empire we did something just like Belegar asked us to do, and the Trade Papers help make Rosie's life easier, reduce the number of dead Stirlander soldiers that will fall taking down the other vampires, and because a bunch of traitors not to The Empire but Humanity Itself will otherwise get away clean, and likely offer their services to other Dark Powers. Its our fucking job as a Grey Wizard to deal with such traitors and I'm not going to put that aside for the CHANCE to MAYBE get some personal shinies.
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This man speaks wisdom. Heed his words.
 
Rafin said:
Has anyone here actually heard of a quest where two different groups of voters control two different entities?
The closest I can think of was this one Worm quest across SB/SV where on one forum people controlled an alternate Taylor while on the other they controlled her Shard that was trying to drive her to conflict and other data gathering opportunities.
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I know it's happened a few times in real-life D&D games- usually one GM running two separate groups in a shared world. The immortal tale of the Head of Vecna comes from one such pair of games.

I'm not aware of anyone pulling it off in an online quest format, though that one Worm quest @Rafin mentioned comes close. It would be virtually impossible to segregate the players of the two quests, and very difficult to QM around the inevitable OOC-for-one-quest knowledge players would acquire by reading the other one.
 
Kornet said:
Hello, countess, look at your spymaster, now back to me, now back at your spymaster, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he stopped worshipping Sigmar and switched to Ranald, he could be wathced over like he's me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're on a gyro with the spymistress your spymaster could be watched over like. What's in your hand, back at me. I have it, it's the skull of that pesky necrarch you absolutely hate. Look again, the skull is now intel reports. Anything is possible when your spymaster worshippes Ranald and not Sigmar. I'm on a shadowhorse.
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SCO said:
As per turn results and voting pattern; this is actually going to happen now isn't it.



[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
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Can I just say that post is nothing short of a work of genius?
I love it and somehow it never gets any less funny looking at it, I can actually picture Mathilde doing the Old Spice routine (She is very fit after all) to an utterly bewildered Roswita, in Isaiah's voice complete with requisite changing background imagery (illusions are fun)
 
veekie said:
[ ] Detailed trade ledgers.
Rarity:
-Uncommon. Its nothing that can't be achieved by other means, means the EIC is going to use already.
Utility:
-Timing. Its one thing to do it, but another to suddenly have all your finances yanked out from under you.
-Information network expansion. EIC expansion is free informant network expansion.
-Stirland release. If your objective is to ensure that we need as little work done in Stirland in the next 10 turns, this is it. Thats the Lahmians and the Blood Dragons kicked in the economic balls.
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From a purely reward factor, this analysis is accurate and the ledgers are lacking, but thematically the ledgers are S-tier. This is an option that not only strangles the vampires and enriches Stirland, but does so in a way that mirrors one of the first major services we ever did for Abelhelm. Getting the ledgers is profoundly narratively satisfying in a way that rare magic books aren't.

Besides. We're more than a little dwarf in mindset, now. The people in that book facilitated the literal predation of their fellow human. Let's cross that Grudge out.
 
TempestK said:
You're not making an equivalent comparison. The snake juice was something we could come back to at our leisure, something we could investigate again and again. The books are a one-off crapshoot. They're literally nothing alike.
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The Snake Juice had inherent properties determined without our input, by a roll of the dice, and once they were retroactively determined that was that. They're exactly the same.
SurpriseMe said:
The thing is, bacially every time we have a vote on forbidden lore or vampirism there is a strong undercurrent of people trying to use it as a foot in the door for necromancy and dark magic.
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Omegahugger isn't an undercurrent, they're a friend. :V

More seriously, options are options. The thread's opinion on things can often have little similarity with what the discussion seems to entail. See, for example, everybody talking about how they didn't want to read the book, and then maybe five people showing up to vote against it. Conversely, everybody talking about using Necromancy on Van Hal, and then five people showing up to vote for it.

The thread likes cool things, but it's not going to choose to do evil. Few people like reading about evil. Evil quests die fast, and with little acclaim, or else the voters refuse to choose evil options and they stop being evil quests.
picklepikkl said:
We're more than a little dwarf in mindset, now.
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As an aside, that's just a meme. The rest of your argument sounds fine, I guess, but Mathilde isn't actually, you know, becoming a dwarf or anything. There is no Dwarven Infection in Karak Eight Peaks.
 
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thepsyborg said:
I know it's happened a few times in real-life D&D games- usually one GM running two separate groups in a shared world. The immortal tale of the Head of Vecna comes from one such pair of games.

I'm not aware of anyone pulling it off in an online quest format, though that one Worm quest @Rafin mentioned comes close. It would be virtually impossible to segregate the players of the two quests, and very difficult to QM around the inevitable OOC-for-one-quest knowledge players would acquire by reading the other one.
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I believe there was a RWBY CKII quest where SB controlled one protagonist/nation and SV controlled another, but the name escapes me at the moment. Probably helped that one was mostly isolated and both were allied though.
 
chocolote12 said:
As an aside, that's just a meme. The rest of your argument sounds fine, I guess, but Mathilde isn't actually, you know, becoming a dwarf or anything. There is no Dwarven Infection in Karak Eight Peaks.
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About that....
BoneyM said:
Conversation after conversation adds to your knowledge of the happenings of this dark corner of the Empire, and even though most of them are dedicated to petty infighting and backstabbing, useful information can be plucked from them like flakes of gold from alluvial soil.
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chocolote12 said:
As an aside, that's just a meme. The rest of your argument sounds fine, I guess, but Mathilde isn't actually, you know, becoming a dwarf or anything.
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No, we're not literally becoming a dwarf and we didn't get hit by the Ancestor Rune. But Mathilde's internal monologue has commented about how at home she feels among the dwarves and how it feels more like home to her than the Empire did. As far back as the Drakenhof expedition, she was way more comfortable with the dwarves than with her fellow human. She took every opportunity to be Dwarfy on the expedition with Roswita. She named her sword in Khazalid. She keeps using mining metaphors.

Who you spend time with and who you value does influence your outlook a lot. I like Mathilde's growing Dwarfiness. The inherent contradiction between that and being a wizard, not just of any Wind but of Ulgu, makes great reading.
 
chocolote12 said:
As an aside, that's just a meme. The rest of your argument sounds fine, I guess, but Mathilde isn't actually, you know, becoming a dwarf or anything. There is no Dwarven Infection in Karak Eight Peaks.
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Actually, if Mathilde admires certain dwarven traits and customs, and is constantly surrounded by dwarves, speaking their language and at least socially mirroring their mindset, and has plenty of personal dwarven friends that make her biased in favor of their opinions, then she might very well become more dwarf-like in her own thoughts and behavior. That's just common sense.
That said, not only is grudge-hunting something she does not admire all that much, it is also something that Belegar himself has moved away from.
On the third hand, believing that people who knowingly trade with and supply vampires to enrich themselves deserve to be hunted and put to death has been in character for Mathilde for longer than her Dawongr status.
 
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chocolote12 said:
[X] Books on Necromancy and the Undead.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.

Everyone, please listen to Veekie. Vampire books on Vampires from the Vampire faction that was friends with Nagash is ridiculous. It's irreplacable. Fighting the corruption of the merchants can be done by other people, with some decent rolls and a few simulated action points; it's nice to have, but not supernaturally good. Is there a cost for not taking it? Yes. But there's a cost for everything. Ferreting out corruption isn't nearly so hard as coming across Necrarch tomes.

On the other hand, this is lore straight from Nehekhara, about Vampires, by vampires, and vampires wrote the books on vampirism before they actually went and became them, because vampirism was originally an academic endeavor. If you want to know about the nature of the soul, this is your chance. If you want to know about what vampires really eat and why, here it is. If you want to create your own ascension ritual, stealing your notes from somebody who actually got somewhere is an excellent first step.

Yes, it's a gatcha roll. You know what? So was the Snake Juice, and the first roll we got, and it was a mediocre roll before we stacked the bonuses on it, let us get a shot at giving Kragg the Grim Ancestor Runes for every battle. As in, Storms of Magic style double battle magic. If these books are useless, they're useless. If they're amazing, they're amazing.
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I'm not against the idea of Vampire/Dhar lore, because that is something the Necrarchs tomes might actually have information on that the Liber Mortis does not, maybe, and it could be conceivably useful, though I'm wary of it
But the books on Necromancy and Undead can probably be disregarded, unless they're complete originals from Nagash himself, which they probably aren't, and even if they were they'd probably be ludicrous overkill compared to the original complete Liber Mortis we already possess, not to mention the amount of memetic hazards and defenses they'd probably be layered in
I'm just not interested in Shyish and death god books, they don't seem like they'd be very useful compared to everything else
 
SCO said:
The fact a 3-rd tier vampire had 34 Learning as his specialty says bad things about the stats of actual vampire lords and the worse things in the quest.

Nagash is probably sitting at 60-80 learning and 40 martial or something stupid like that.
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What makes you think a 34 Learning Necrarch is third tier?

He, the buff-focused wizard, damn nearly killed us, the master swordswoman with an antimagic-on-hit sword, in melee.

@LockedMind had it right, this guy is nothing short of a Vampire Lord, one of the killiest fuckers in any faction's armybook.

We aren't playing with the traditional over-inflated CK stats. One of the finest Martials in the world, aka Mounted Asarnil, is in the 50s. And that's an ancient Elf Prince on a Star Dragon.
 
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I remember the vote for where our loyalties laid before we took off for here and while our loyalty to the Empire and the College were both high our loyalty to humanity was only modest. The listing was also immediately followed by Mathilde being like "Hell yeah! Gonna go hang out with dwarves, love those guys!" So I'm a-okay with beginning the adoption process into dwarf culture. :V
 
CrimsonOddball said:
But the books on Necromancy and Undead can
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I was wondering why people were talking about that; I was so used to seeing the proof vote at the top of any block I assumed that they were the same for the switched votes, sorry.

[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
CrimsonOddball said:
I'm just not interested in Shyish and death god books, they don't seem like they'd be very useful compared to everything else
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Eh, there's been implications that more god lore could end up doing something neat. We only seem to run into death god stuff, though.
ADarkerPorpoise said:
I remember the vote for where our loyalties laid before we took off for here and while our loyalty to the Empire and the College were both high our loyalty to humanity was only modest.
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I was under the impression we were just telling them what they wanted to hear, but okay. (Not to say that we lied, but our main priority wasn't on telling the truth).
 
CrimsonOddball said:
I'm not against the idea of Vampire/Dhar lore, because that is something the Necrarchs tomes might actually have information on that the Liber Mortis does not, maybe, and it could be conceivably useful, though I'm wary of it
But the books on Necromancy and Undead can probably be disregarded, unless they're complete originals from Nagash himself, which they probably aren't, and even if they were they'd probably be ludicrous overkill compared to the original complete Liber Mortis we already possess, not to mention the amount of memetic hazards and defenses they'd probably be layered in
I'm just not interested in Shyish and death god books, they don't seem like they'd be very useful compared to everything else
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This is a good take. The vampire/Dhar books seem most likely to have information about combating this stuff that we can't get elsewhere; the Liber Mortis is not going to have the same insight about vampirism that a vampire's own collection might.
chocolote12 said:
I was under the impression we were just telling them what they wanted to hear, but okay. (Not to say that we lied, but our main priority wasn't on telling the truth).
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Sure, but IIRC from reading that discussion, the main thing we needed to change for "what they wanted to hear" was ranking our loyalty to the Empire above our loyalty to the Colleges, because while the reverse was more true we are required by law to put the Empire first.
 
[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
 
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Actually, does anyone know how long the vote lasts? Since this is a multipart thing, is BoneyM doing the regular 24 hour voting period? Or is it different?
 
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