Adrian XXIV
Average User, from Poland
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If Mathilde became Supreme Matriarch, then she would be only being in existence to hołd both titles of Supreme Matriarch & Dawi Loremaster
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I mean she is probably the only being in existence that holds the titles of Dawi Loremaster and Knight of Stirland, no stranger to unique title combinations
I'm still aiming for the triple loremaster achievement. Being acknowledged as a dwarven, human, and elven loremaster would be really cool.
Ironically, the human title might be the hardest for Mathilde to get.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Well, I feel like it doesn't come out and literally say it, but the first part of the paragraph would be pretty pointless if there isn't some kind of magic to it. Unless it's basically, 'The Liber Mortis has no magical leakage... because it's not magical!'
Dhar is noted to be the most destructive magic, ever. For it to be a stable enchantment, doubly so of preservation - is
Necromancy is inherently about preservation, even something as crude as making a zombie has to keep the corpse from rotting too much and higher forms of undead are held in stasis. I think it would be pretty easy to make a book preservation spell with it.
Necromancy is the combination of Dhar and Shyish, which means that the effect is a corruption of the Wind of Death, rather than being just the megalomania and destruction of pure Dhar.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
I mean, there's definitely a subset of the voting base that is like, 'Well we already researched how to become the
Which is probably pretty close to (orthodox) Druchii sorceresses' view of practitioners of necromancy, Chaos Sorcery, the Lore of Stealth and similar 'Dhar + Wind' traditions... Posers, charlatans and dilettantes, the lot of them, none of them with any grasp of what true magical power means!
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I wonder what the Omegahugger in EgrimmQuest is called…
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Alphaslapper.
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can you imagine how badly this would've gone if we'd rolled Alric?
shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
What was the roll for? whoever joins the waystone project?
infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
That roll was for trying to specifically recruit from the Light College for the Dum Expedition.
- Location
- Canada
Ok, so Necromancy is corrupted Shyish, where the ending of death is stretched out so long that its no longer an ending at all. Skaven plague magic could perhaps reasonably be seen as a corruption of Ghyran, using rampant growth of life to wither, weaken, and kill.
Does Eshin stealth magic fit this paradigm? We know that it's cast by mashing Dhar with Ulgu, but what I can find of it outside the quest just makes it seem like Ulgu But For Assholes™.
Although having written this, this could just be a case of windherding; not actually aiming to corrupt the Ulgu, just using it as sorcerous oven mitts to avoid touching the ick... But if that's the case, why would a species that practically bathes in warpstone bother with the hassle?
Joke answer: corrupted Ulgu is all "collapsing the uncertainty waveform" magic like the thread used to suggest, but the result is always "someone died".
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As an aside, I was considering what corruptions of the other Winds might look like, and an Anti-Azyr focusing on clouds and obscuring weather to hide, confuse, and befuddle sounded amusingly familiar.
infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
Control:
If you don't have the Secrets of Dhar, trying to do anything finicky with Dhar practically requires another Wind.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Eight winds: corrupted edition
Aqshy - volcanic eruption and indiscriminate mass destruction.
Azyr - Warpstorm and madness? I'm guessing it'd make tzeentch very happy.
Chamon - Well, I'm guessing it'll be at home in a hellforge.
Ghur - Apparently this is what beastmen do? It definitely fits the bill.
Ghyran - Kudzu magic. (Rampant, parasitic, chokingly overabundant and toxically hostile to all... Or Nurgle's joy)
Ulgu - Corruption, contradiction, leading people to madness and a heavy leaning to assassination.
Hysh - Zealotry, a truth exalted above all in sheer fucking spite to reality and evidence. Death to objectors.
Shyish - We know this one.
- Location
- Canada
Could Mathilde's analysis be skewed by her experiences with Dhar? Generic dhar-using "witchcraft" is often described as a slapdash clown-show, using Dhar to punch above their skill-level, but the Mathilde at the time hadn't seen Druchii or high level Tzeenchian magic in person.
I imagine a human caster trying to do actual magic with dhar would melt before figuring out anything useful, but if the Druchii can use Dhar effectively, what's stopping a race of warp-dusted dhar fanatics from figuring out the rules of effective usage on their own?
I think the lore of stealth is the Eshin's solution to the primary weakness of Ulgu - it isn't killy enough on it own unless you get enough of it in one place to warp reality. For Clan Eshin, ulgu does most of what they want as it is naturally, it hides them from their enemies, confuses them to no end and allows them incredible mobility, the one thing it doesn't do is kill good. Dhar is awesome at murder, destruction is basically its purest aspect, so if you already have the ablity to wield ulgu, all you really got to do is grab a bit of Dhar with that ulgu and then you have a very hidden very destructive method of murder. Its not really to protect them from the ick but to allow them to use the ick in a way that is unnoticable.
Its also according to previous WoQM a corruption of an eastern interpretation of ulgu, rather than the Old World's Teclisian model. It might also be more of a corruption of hedgemagic ideals, if we ever learn how the Hedge works.
infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
She's read the Liber Mortis by then, so she knows what high-level Dhar usage would look like. It's possible that there was something more going on that she couldn't see, but as it is I suspect her analysis is correct; the Eshin mage used Ulgu to force Dhar into precise, nigh-invisible projectiles, resulting in a spell with the control and precision of Ulgu (as much as an oxymoron as that is) and the power and destructiveness of Dhar.
Given that the Skaven are untrusting and paranoid as a baseline, I imagine that any Skaven who's delved deep enough into Dhar to discover a higher level of manipulation is probably not inclined to share it. Especially given that if you give enough Skaven knowledge of the Second Secret, they kind of all cancel each other out.
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Did some speculation on such matters a little while ago, along with a few others!
(Also wondered shortly thereafter whether the Vampirates may just use Dhar-inflected Shyish for their sea-manipulating spells, through a Mystical association with drowning.)
Right now, if Egrimm is to be presented with the liber mortis, I think he would have a good chance of falling for it still. The book would offer a slightly better alternative to whatever faustian deal he could have gone for.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Could Shyish be used to make a tomestone or other memorial last 'forever'*
*Understanding that forever never actually ends so it would be impossible to actually prove success.
- Location
- Canada
Daemon's advocate: The Liber Mortis is high level Necromancy, specifically. Though it contains Vlad's Secrets of Dhar, it primarily describes Dhar as something manipulated by Shyish, which it has to be if it's going to be used to make skeletal soldiers and not piles of irradiated calcium ash.
Just to clarify, as I worry that this may be coming off as combative: I don't think you're wrong, I'm just picking at the edges of your argument to try and better clarify it for myself.
Honestly, this seems like the most likely reason to me in the end; control arguments aside, the net result of invisible grenades seems pretty worthwhile in and of itself.
I mean, the same can be said for all the other powerful magics and technologies they use; why would "pure" dhar casting be any different?
This makes a lot of sense; we know only a little of foreign interpretations of the winds, so a corruption of a distant interpretation could very well just be Ulgu But For Assholes™.
I mean, a corruption of the Indic Aqshy paradigm sounds like it would pretty close to the College model, if nothing else.
Not straightforwardly, Shyish is antithetical to permanence. It might be theoretically possible to tap into the mystic connotations of a tombstone as a symbol of an inevitability to make something along those lines happen, but it would depend on the wielder.