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I think our most important action with Egrimm was not recruiting him. But when we looked over the apprentice/journeyman (Been a bit can't remember exactly) for any possible corruption.

Mathilde was in a position of absolute power for that moment as a Lord Grey Magister. Whatever she done could have been justified and if it was pretty bad that would have been the push Egrimm needed right there. But Mathilde just gave the guy a pat on the back and sent him along.

I really need to re read that part.
 
All of y'all are focusing on how Egrimm needs a hug, and how bad he could have gone and all that, but I'm over here just thinking that his inclusion means he's totally an official Duckling now :V .
 
Feeling reeeeeeeeeally good about our decision to recruit him and get him out from under his boss's thumb, now.
Well, the goal was to adopt him and either hug or stab him enough he doesn't become a problem. Seems successful.

I kind of wonder how Ergrim sees Mathilde. From our perspective, he was always delightfully sus. Did it feel the same from his? Did he think he fooled her? That she suspected, but decided to extend a hand anyway? That she is corrupted, after all? Would he care?

I'm pretty sure he's the one person Mathilde could tell about the liber mortis and it would only increase his respect.
And he'd ne totally down to get into it with corrupted Mathilde. Not as 2nd in command, because he has a thing about that, but certainly as an ally who is very independent but will act on her advice. Mathilde can command so long d she doesn't give commands.
 
All of y'all are focusing on how Egrimm needs a hug, and how bad he could have gone and all that, but I'm over here just thinking that his inclusion means he's totally an official Duckling now :V .
It's a shame the August Order Of The Ducklings no longer meets regularly
 
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I think our most important action with Egrimm was not recruiting him. But when we looked over the apprentice/journeyman (Been a bit can't remember exactly) for any possible corruption.

Mathilde was in a position of absolute power for that moment as a Lord Grey Magister. Whatever she done could have been justified and if it was pretty bad that would have been the push Egrimm needed right there. But Mathilde just gave the guy a pat on the back and sent him along.

I really need to re read that part.

First we left the Light Journeymen to Egrimm for pretty much the entire trip. We showed that we trust him, that he can do the work.
Then when he professed doubts about one of them and offered us to take a look. We did. And we put the work in (1 Action). And decided, no the Journeyman does not need to die.
Then we stole him out from under his Master, getting him out of his abusive environment.
Finally we did not keep him under our thumb, but allowed him out with our recommendation to Lord Magister.

It was no single thing that caught him, but a lot of little to medium things over years.
 
Either way, this is why I'm pushing for the Supreme Patriarch position. When Mathilde acted as a teacher and a leader to a group of wizards, it turned out pretty damn well.

She would have to brush up on some stuff, get some allies among the colleges. But I think it be a excellent goal for the future.
 
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First we left the Light Journeymen to Egrimm for pretty much the entire trip. We showed that we trust him, that he can do the work.
Then when he professed doubts about one of them and offered us to take a look. We did. And we put the work in (1 Action). And decided, no the Journeyman does not need to die.
Then we stole him out from under his Master, getting him out of his abusive environment.
Finally we did not keep him under our thumb, but allowed him out with our recommendation to Lord Magister.

It was no single thing that caught him, but a lot of little to medium things over years.
Getting him to LM was a big deal. That's something that cost her to arrange, which he would've been aware of, and also cost her control. It gave him the respect and independence he wanted. So Mathilde is basically the anti Alric.
 
???: Poor Egrimm, withering upon the vine. Ever the tool, to be used and put away and then used again, never the master of your own fate...

Y'know, there are other opportunities out there if you're willing to look for them. Oh sure, we're going to use you too, all very cutthroat, lots of internal competition you understand. But turnabout is fair play here, if you're smart about it you'll get to use us too, play your cards right and you could live forever, wield powers beyond your imagining, finally take the stage and show the whole world what you can do, and you're a clever guy aren't you Egrimm? Big guy like you, I think you've got a shot at the top.

You've been unfairly stifled and taken advantage of your whole life, it won't be easy, but in here you'd finally have an opportunity to rise or fall on your own merits, that's all you ever really wanted isn't it?

Are you really gonna keep sticking it out under that boot, watching the years slip between your fingers, when there's so much potential for what could be just in sight if you're willing to reach out and--

Mathilde: (Kicking down the door) Hey Egrimm wanna be your own boss?

Egrimm: Do I?!

???: Oh for fucks sake.
 
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Egrimm when Mathilde becomes Evertilde: Clever girl, stealing my promised position through kindness and care!

Tzeentch, clapping wildly: Bravo, bravo, masterfully done Mathilde, masterfully done. Oh hey Egrimm, there's still a spot for you under that delightfully contradictory Witch! Every good Everchosen has advisors who at least vaguely want to stab them!
 
What was it someone called it during the Dum arc? Chaos-curious I think, the state of being about to teeter over the edge, but not having not yet done anything, just asked some questions and maybe found some answers you should not know.
Egrimm: Chaos curious.
Mathilde: Necromancy curious.
Johann: Warp-tech curious.
Adela: Dwarf-tech curious.
Panoramia: ...why are you all looking at me like that?
 
Now that I think of it, is Egrimm older than Mathilde? I know at the time of the expedition Mathilde was the youngest Grey LM, which probably formed Egrimm's first impression of her as an overambitious climber, because his main frame of reference for high-ranked wizards was Alric, the obsessive gloryhound who got his choirmates killed and then latched onto Egrimm as a useful pawn in the aftermath.

And then he meets Mathilde, and well:
You shrug. "If it happens I'll take it, but I joined Belegar because Abelhelm died and I didn't know what else to do with myself, and I found Vlag because I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with the right talents. I can't grab the entire Dwarven race by the beards and shake them until they stop looking backward and start looking forward. But I like them, so I'll do what I can to make the world a better place for them."

"There's a line for their history books. 'The Mathilde Age: She liked us, so she made the world a better place for us'."
 
Panoramia (and this is something that is already on my mind for a conversation in the treehouse scene) isn't quite the same as the Ducklings - she is more fully a Wizard than them, but she is a better Wizard outside of a Wizarding context than she was inside of the one she was born into. Some trees grow well in dense vegetation, others need more room to spread their roots, as a Jade Wizard might put it.
That's a really good metaphor in conjunction with the giant treehouse. It must be quite a statement, to any Jades that eventually visit.

And Egrimm? It is such a quiet thing, to fall. It begins inside, when you decide that the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can only be put right by setting aside all that must not be set aside. But then if the slings and arrows are stopped, after you've marked all these things for setting aside but before you actually do the setting... what does that do to a person? Knowing what you're capable of, but also knowing that you didn't actually do anything worse than maneuver yourself into a position to do all those things that you didn't actually do? All of the doors that life had so unfairly barred have now swung open. You can just walk down them. Do you? Should you? Can you let yourself do so, knowing what you might have become? Should you even care about policing yourself when you were so recently so ready to do so much worse?

Did you actually fall?

Is that thing? Can you fall just a little bit? Can you just pick yourself up and dust yourself off and continue on the path? You look around expecting to see judgement, but apparently nobody even noticed. Mildly skinned knees hidden under clothes and already beginning to heal. You can just continue on without anybody ever knowing or ever needing to know, like nothing ever happened, because nothing did.

But it could have.

But it didn't.
I never thought we'd actually have confirmation on this, given how much fun you've had teasing at the possibility with deniable Egrimm lines.

Guys, do we think that maybe our external social action this turn is Egrimm coming to confess his would-be-sins to us? That'd be a hell of a thing.

"Mathilde, I gotta confess I've been thinking of-"
"Falling out of resentment at Alric? Yes, I kinda suspected. But who among us hasn't been tempted to do things they really shouldn't? I'm just gonna keep rewarding your loyalty and showing you appreciation while giving you enough suspicion to quell my paranoia. Also, do you want to get to know a cool Ice Dragon I know? You gotta promise to not tell anyone that you have access to a near-unique source of insight on Hysh, which your colleagues would all probably slobber over. Which, you know, would be an ethical way to satisfy any urges for obtaining power no other human ever has gotten."
"...I'll never get fucking used to Grey Wizards."


Either way, this is why I'm pushing for the Supreme Patriarch position. When Mathilde acted as a teacher and a leader to a group of wizards, it turned out pretty damn well.

She would have to brush up on some stuff, get some allies among the colleges. But I think it be a excellent goal for the future.
I'll agree that the Supreme Patriarch is a leader to wizards, but I wouldn't say it's a particular teaching position. Because of how the Colleges were founded, by necessity it's a position that requires being good at fighting with magic, and you wouldn't be directly supervising wizards the way Mathilde supervised the Ducklings and currently runs WEB-MAT.

I'd personally prefer setting the cap on Mathilde's current ambitions to Magister Matriarch of the Greys and possibly being on the other side of the favor economy, being the wacky guest character in other peoples' stories that helps them out in whatever stumped them.
 
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Guys, do keep any pertinent text invisitext or spoilers would you. I don't care myself but this is the sort of thing many avoid.
 
On a slightly different note...

[...] Also his boss took his golden bear ass to a place where a very influential subset of society religiously venerates physical perfection, and their species kind of tops out at twunk. [...]
I'm currently wondering what the hell Laurelorn's reaction would be to Boris Bokha, Bear Wrestler.
 
Panoramia will seek out the lost technology of the ancient druids, the creation of the mythical wonder they simply called Burrito
 
Not to disagree, but to add some context to that scene that I think might be interesting but isn't in the text because it would have detracted from the focus on Heidi: Mathilde takes a moment to consider it because to her, being a Ranaldian is one major facet to her character among several - being a Wizard, being a Stirlandian, being a citizen of Eight Peaks, heading the Waystone Project. Most major things she does is in service of one of those, and she often ropes in the others to assist when applicable. But Heidi is a Ranaldian, she does things to be a Ranaldian, and she does them in Ranaldian ways. When Mathilde pauses and says 'I suppose so', it's because she has to consider her life through that lens, where all her behaviours go into one of four Ranaldian boxes instead of Ranald things being one tool in her belt. Her greatsword shenanigans go into the Protector box, instead of being a blend of her Stirlandian and Eight Peaks facets; her smug mysterious aura becomes a Deceiver trait instead of a Wizard thing; her stealth stuff becomes a Night Prowler situational usefulness instead of an application of her Wizard abilities. To the normal lens she uses to see herself, the Gambler stuff is the only purely Ranaldian expression of her character, and that's why she uses it to get Ranald's attention - because it's the facet that she normally doesn't throw herself fully into, so when she does it's an explicit act of devotion instead of just her natural vibes being Ranald-compatible.

No lens is necessarily correct or incorrect. In the same way that Heidi parses all of Mathilde through a purely Ranaldian lens, there are people that see her through a purely Wizardly one, or a purely Stirlandian one, or a purely Dwarf-y one, or an international diplomacy one, not because those are more correct lenses but because those are they are most accustomed to using, or because they're the ones they can see the clearest through, or because they're the ones most applicable to the task at hand.
This feels pleasing to Ranald in its own right--Mathilde acts in Ranaldian-aligned ways even when not trying to, almost tongue-in-cheek "is she being like this because she's a Ranaldian or because she's a wizard and the answer is yes".

Similarly, the Ducklings all started thriving once they escaped from the mono-Wizard mindset that was constricting them and 'multiclassed' into a mindset and worldview that allowed other facets of their person to flourish, which ended up not only making them better people but also better Wizards than even they had remained stuck in the constricted mindset that was stunting them. Panoramia (and this is something that is already on my mind for a conversation in the treehouse scene) isn't quite the same as the Ducklings - she is more fully a Wizard than them, but she is a better Wizard outside of a Wizarding context than she was inside of the one she was born into. Some trees grow well in dense vegetation, others need more room to spread their roots, as a Jade Wizard might put it. Max has faded into something of a minor character in the story and I've allowed him to do so without regret because the Wizard part of his life is a job for him - a job he likes and finds fulfilling, but it's the clock he punches to be able to pursue his true passion that is a purely academic pursuit of metalworking. More than pretty much any other character, Max knows what he wants out of life and how to get it. In a way he's kind of like Jerry from Parks and Recreation - he doesn't care how seriously he's taken at work because the job is one he can put down at the end of the day and return to the life he finds supremely fulfilling.
Max is really good at what he does, but he isn't too focused or ambitious about growing that capability further. Which is fine, because what he does is quite valuable already and being so reliable and consistent is part of that value. Rather than disrespect, I respect that he has made good use of his wizardly potential and acts like a dwarf-quality cog in the important machine that is the Colleges.

Johann is interesting, because he was driven to prove himself and in pursuing that with some dodgy secret squirrel deniable ops this parchment will self immolate in five seconds shit, he got caught up in Mathilde's wake and Mathilde took him deadly serious in his own right from day one. The thread's deep suspicion of his bullshit was actually the best thing that could happen for him because what he wanted most was to be taken that seriously. And it turns out that when he was already getting acceptance from outside the Gold Order, his obsession with becoming the very literal Golden Boy stopped seeming so meaningful, and then pursuing it anyway out of inertia went in a way that could be seen as extremely badly but could also be seen as not that big a deal. Also his boss took his golden bear ass to a place where a very influential subset of society religiously venerates physical perfection, and their species kind of tops out at twunk. Being actively desired does strange and powerful things to a soul that spent so long yearning just to be wanted.
Johann came from a background where he was a wizard but his magic was stunted. Against the odds, a master saw potential in him and trained him up into being a force to be reckoned with. Mathilde became a superior that took him seriously from the start and appreciated the strengths of Johann's capabilities rather than get caught up in his limitations. Raiding the skaven with him repeatedly was a really good move--it shows that Mathilde really got and appreciated what Johann could do immediately and ran with it, because what normal wizard would look at a Gold wizard with inflexible magic and jump right on the "infiltration buddy" button?

From there, the ways in which Johann has been included and grown has probably helped a lot. Teaching him how to see with Windsight after being blinded and then taking him with us to the Chaos Wastes as proof that we really did believe he was no less capable for it. Getting the lizardman arm prosthetic that made him even more deadly in a fight and unique as a wizard. The adventure into the edge of Ostermark and then into Kislev--when a Lady Magister treats you as their partner in investigation, problem solving, and battle, you know you're a desired quality.

And Egrimm? It is such a quiet thing, to fall. It begins inside, when you decide that the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can only be put right by setting aside all that must not be set aside. But then if the slings and arrows are stopped, after you've marked all these things for setting aside but before you actually do the setting... what does that do to a person? Knowing what you're capable of, but also knowing that you didn't actually do anything worse than maneuver yourself into a position to do all those things that you didn't actually do? All of the doors that life had so unfairly barred have now swung open. You can just walk down them. Do you? Should you? Can you let yourself do so, knowing what you might have become? Should you even care about policing yourself when you were so recently so ready to do so much worse?

Did you actually fall?

Is that thing? Can you fall just a little bit? Can you just pick yourself up and dust yourself off and continue on the path? You look around expecting to see judgement, but apparently nobody even noticed. Mildly skinned knees hidden under clothes and already beginning to heal. You can just continue on without anybody ever knowing or ever needing to know, like nothing ever happened, because nothing did.

But it could have.

But it didn't.
From this, Egrimm is a fascinating case study. In a world where corruption of the soul and mind are very real things, questions are raised about where lines are drawn and their implications. And I think there's a strength to be gained in coming close to a fall but backing away from the edge--the experience in knowing what it's like but also knowing that you did back away from crossing those lines.

Mathilde came in at the right time and provided exactly what he needed: a friend, a superior who treated him well and respectfully, a partner in adventure and challenge, and a key connection towards the ideals he once believed in but had been denied and soured on over time. She used her influence and opportunity to cut right through the messy politics and darker things to give him an escape from that mess and give him the recognition and freedom he deserved. Then she took him to a place far away from all of the negative connotations he'd built and into a place of wonder and opportunity: Laurelorn, with breaks in a place practically built on merit, growth, and comradery--Karak Eight Peaks. He got to work with living legends in the fields of magic and runecraft as an equal and help unravel some of the oldest and greatest works in the world.

He knows he was on a dark path, and in hindsight it's horrifying. But it's a good thing that no one noticed, or that Mathilde, finding out from a very dubious source, decided that it didn't matter if it was true or not because the end result is that Egrimm was on the right path and would stay on that path so long as Mathilde kept doing what she was already doing.

There's a sort of irony, there--the high-ranking shadowmancer of the Empire, supposed to be the paranoid enforcer against corruption from the shadows, deciding that Egrimm's previously being on the path to high treason didn't matter because he'd turned away from that path by just being treated right. There's a parallel, too, about Mathilde and her reading of the Liber Mortis: in itself, an unforgivable red flag, but in the context of "is on the right path and is staying on the right path", she's not so different herself.

Kind of like how a Witch Hunter Elector Count once found out that his spymaster was under the thumb of the Lahmians, and decided to work behind the scenes to liberate her from that conspiracy rather than treat her as a threat to be expunged. Paying it forward and all that.
 
Honestly, for everything Mathilde has stolen, it feels like she has stolen the most from chaos.

Edit: did I do invisitext right? first time I attempt it.

Edit 2: I didn't, but thanks to help from the thread, I now did.
 
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I think positive Johann points being tied to being suspicious and hostile to him is hilarious. I can't remember any CRPG companion having that as a feature, even the one that like you being an asshole generally aren't in favour of turning that on them.
 
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