Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I assume that this needs modifying given that the road is now finished, by the way.
Edit: Or possibly it should only be changed when we end up talking with House Fanpatar about our compensation?
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xamaplak
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE @SOUP?
- Location
- the Soup Store
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nonsense-balderdash, a sufficient amount of warpstone will make any tool work-function, regardless of its provenance. And then explode. But that's a feature, yes-yes...
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Shadowsteed in particular has been so useful in large part because of our Mastery, which a College tutor teaching Eike won't pass on. It's probably the spell with the strongest argument for Mathilde teaching it herself, except perhaps Aethyric Armour, which Mathilde has already taught her.
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If bored nobles cared about that there would be a lot less cults about.
Also I remind you that during Mathilde's promotion exam a noble volunteered to have a Grey Wizard try to subtly ransack their home while they had proof of tax evasion in said home.
As I said above, if we think we'll ever try to codify our Shadowsteed Mastery, we should have Eike taught the basic version she can potentially develop her own Mastery for as well as later learn the new spell based on our codified Shadowsteed.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That is a lot of ifs involved. We haven't even codified Knightbringer yet.
Of all our masteries we are the least likely to codify Shadowsteed. It has nothing to do with any of our skills or traits. Also that is a multi-AP action that might fail. I don't think anyone's going into the metaphorical vote trenches to argue for it on the grounds that Eike could have two types of sahdowy horse spells.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Not worth it in my mind. Especially since we have no time to actually codify anything really and even if we did we have bunch of others to do first. Eike might be Magister by the time we get around to that.
Just pass it on what we have. Perfection is the enemy. -literally even-
We also have years until Eike can safely and reliably cast Shadowsteed.
We'd need to spend an action to teach Eike Mathilde's personal version of the spell - an action we could also spend to develop a codified version of the spell which she could learn from the scroll of from another teacher we paid to learn the codified spell and teach it to Eike.
The action cost may well be the same, both end up with Eike knowing how to cast a superior Shadowsteed, but one option means that spell is available to the entire Grey College as well as Eike and she has a chance of developing her own mastery of both basic and the newly codified version of Shadowsteed to further develop it, and the other just gives her the Mastery.
Assuming codifying the Mastery is something Mathilde is able to do of course, but I think this would be, as it's not based on something like an arcane mark.
See above about codification. I also don't think we know it's a multiple AP action. I don't think the precedent of Rite of Way tells us that it is.
Teaching her the Mastery also costs an action.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I'd be delighted to codify shadowsteed, I think it'd be incredibly impactful to the everyday logistics of the Grey College. But learning one new spell and one mastery variant is always going to take more time/effort than just learning the mastery as a new spell. It's not more difficult than the spell being mastered.
- Location
- Aotearoa
As we have good reason to want to pass on one our incredibly useful masteries for Shadowhorse, I'd also want to combine that with the thematic value of Mathilde being the one to teach her Apprentice Eike her first real spell of Ulgu (i.e. one not also available to every Wind).
So I won't be voting for anything from the Relatively Simple tier in this vote.
Eike learning Sounds will increase her Magic score.
So I won't be voting for anything from the Relatively Simple tier in this vote.
Also I think this isn't right- current she's Magic 2, and Magic 3 is listed as required for reliable casting of Shadowsteed and other Relatively Simple spells.
Eike learning Sounds will increase her Magic score.
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Dermonster
The Shittiest Wizard
I haven't read through the preceeding 6 pages of discussion but if some variant of portativ hasn't been altered to Portentive I will be very cross.
I mean we don't know it's a single AP action either, so I think it is fair to work on the assumption that it's multiple. If you are wrong in one direction great free AP, if you are wrong in the other now you are locked into spending more by sunk cost.
Codifying the Battle Magic grade Rite of Way was a single AP action, so I wouldn't expect the logically much simpler Shadowsteed Mastery to take longer.
It takes more if Eike's time, sure. But it means she has much more potential to build on what Mathilde's developed which if she learns it as a mastery means she can never develop her own superior/bespoke version. By teaching her the Mastery we reduce her long term potential compared to the other option.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
We laboriously created Rite of Way from scratch and referred to our extensive notes in codifying it.
We got Shadowsteed (and Shadowknife) mastery by surprise from a critical roll. We don't understand why or how it works- I could see that being a factor in the difficulty of codification. From some other posts, IIRC we don't really grok how the base Shadowsteed spell works either as it's so alien to our paradigm of Ulgu.
We got Shadowsteed (and Shadowknife) mastery by surprise from a critical roll. We don't understand why or how it works- I could see that being a factor in the difficulty of codification. From some other posts, IIRC we don't really grok how the base Shadowsteed spell works either as it's so alien to our paradigm of Ulgu.
That's true, but on the other hand Rite of Way is also battle magic rather than relativity simple.
We also have access to elven texts about Ulgu that we didn't have before, and have much more exposure to elven magically paradigms than we did back when I think the discussion of Shadowsteed's impenetrability were discussed.
It's not battle grade for us. Also if magic were linear by complexity the college spell list would look much different. One of the factors is how much power you put in, but as rite of way itself shows the other faction is general affinity with the magic the which Mathilde has zero when it comes to horse magic. I'm not even sure when the last time she was around a flesh and blood horse for any length of time even is. The other thing that spells is made of is woho!Dawn/Dusk!Esoteric Nonsense and we have no affinity with that either alas.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
On the other hand, it might be simpler to create/codify a spell that has a great deal of magic behind it.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't expect us to codify our non-Shadow-Knives masteries because we've not previously been given the option to do so in turn vote options.
Eike was able to learn our Aethyric Armor mastery because she's our apprentice and learned our paradigm of magic from us; otherwise I'd expect it to be near-impossible to learn by others.
Eike was able to learn our Aethyric Armor mastery because she's our apprentice and learned our paradigm of magic from us; otherwise I'd expect it to be near-impossible to learn by others.
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It's only not battle magic grade for Mathilde because of her staff, not anything inherent to Mathilde or her understanding of the spell.
Quite possibly. However, the Rite of Way codification is the one data point we have that demonstrates that it's possible to codify as spell as a single action.
It's also possible for Eike to fail to learn a spell and for it to take multiple attempts to do so, as seen by Sounds. It also seems very likely that learning a Mastery might be harder than learning a basic spell, so even Mathilde teaching it her could take multiple actions if we roll poorly, just the same as the codification.
I'm pretty sure we do. It's part of:
One of the sources we can use to create a spell is our Spell Masteries.
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- Location
- Earth
Here's the bit on masteries from the Spellbook threadmark, emphasis mine:
So while I'd love to try to codify shadowrider, I wouldn't hinge plans for Eike's education on its success, and I'd rather have Mathilde teach her shadowsteed personally.
So while I'd love to try to codify shadowrider, I wouldn't hinge plans for Eike's education on its success, and I'd rather have Mathilde teach her shadowsteed personally.
Technically, yes, in the same sense that a high schooler can write a master's dissertation all by themselves. It requires a deep understanding of the subject matter to translate a personal, metaphysical insight into something that anyone can pick up—an understanding that apprentices typically lack, either because of their limited life experiences or their incomplete education on the topic.
They can try, but it's more the sort of thing an extremely skilled Wizard does as a capstone to their career, not something they bang out as part of their origin story.