- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It doesn't get turned into a Battle Altar, it gets plugged into a pre-existing one as fuel. And those things aren't leaving storage for anything less than major battles.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
If a maximum-impressive "Annus Mirabilis" were an overriding priority, I'd have expected more people to have voted for that one plan this turn that saw a personal AP put into finishing the book, so Orbs, AV, and the Waystone Prototype could be presented all at once. I think it got, like, 2 votes in the end though.
- Location
- Oklahoma
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
How is it not?
Noone we have ever met encountered the substance.
EDIT:
To boot, the Orbs of sorcery are neat and impressive, but they are also not vital. They are not really that important in grand scheme of things, because everything they do can be done by couple of powerstones instead. So we are not withholding anything that important for that long.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Nothing really indicates the Colleges act that way though. They keep secrets from each other about sources of knowledge, or about secrets that don't affect the other Orders (see for example the fact Greys all have magically hidden secrets in their heads) but nowhere have I seen them being like "I can do this thing that you could make use of and I could teach you but won't" with the only possible exception being stuff like apparitions which is arguably illegal.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Theoretically an AV-enthusiast could go on an Apparition-killing spree and bleed them all for a little bit apiece. Killing Apparitions has been a fairly low priority as it comes with no reward. If you get a portion of an orb of sorcery or liminal realm out of it, even a very very small portion, it might become a more popular hobby.
- Location
- Norway
Think there was a recent post by Boney on battle altars not using orbs as fuel, but rather that their presence catalysed the spell, so you don't actually use them up.
Which would mean that most of the current orbs are probably dedicated to specific battle altars, so there wouldn't be a ready supply of battle altars.
BRB, gonna try to find the post.
Found it
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Battlemagic and rituals. Plenty of wizards never codify their spells and i doubt its just about the impossibility of it. We would also not be withholding the information for long, just long enough to brag about it.
Apparitions don´t bleed thought iirc. Asp bleeds because of its unique interaction with aethyr and mirrors and the way it was caught. For all we know they might be strained but thats a big if.
There is a reason some of us panicked prior to Architecture of Fate because we were afraid that whatever came through would fuck up the box. We have literally no idea how to make the substance.
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The Jades and Lights both gave us tasks before they'd turn over their knowledge on Waystones to us. We completed those tasks, and so they opened their libraries and gave us their expertise. But in the counterfactual where we said "No thanks, too busy", we would now be without the stuff we got from them, despite it costing them nothing to let us crib their notes.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Oh yeah also this. Having to do complicated hulahoops so that colleges actually arsed themselves to help us cement better international relations and possibly long term save the world. "Not withholding stuff if it helps us". Didn´t even occur to me since i was so oriented on the spell bits.
It's the blood of
Teclis also did feats that Mathilde replicated with AV. It's not confirmation, but it is a rather interesting coincidence to say the least. The Annulii mountains would at least be a decent place to source it.
Most of the time AV evaporates or transforms into winds upon contact with reality, but we know two methods of harvesting it that don't depend on the mirror box:
1) Laurelorn has a lake with a portal at the bottom that leaks AV into the water. It's protected by the Loch Ness Monster, but it creates the Rainbow Falls the priests of Vaul use.
2) harvesting it from a recently slain Apparition. This is tricky, because like I said, it evaporates quickly, but a skilled wizard can actually collect some through this method.
Additionally, it's speculated that Teclis had some ability to directly draw it from Aether itself—although how he does that is still a mystery.
It's a rare resource, and we have an unusual and unique method of acquiring it, but it's not a unique resource in of itself.
- Location
- USA
Speaking of Apparitions, I hope Eike is aware of what can stalk Ulgu-users if things go terribly wrong. Normally I'd say that a Senior Apprentice would know this sort of stuff by now, but when Mathilde was using "what's your worst" to admonish Panoramia over miscasting, Panoramia didn't seem to know what can happen to Ghyran-users despite being a Journeywoman.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Even apart from the fact there is technically a Big Book Of Empire Magic, Battle magic can't be shared. It's not of use to the other Colleges, because they can't actually do anything with it.
I'm not sure that many Wizards do keep back personal spells they are capable of codifying. I'm sure there are plenty who have minor improvments not worth teaching (like Mathilde's version of Skywalk she invented) or insights they don't realise are insights but I see minimal evidence that spell codification is somethign most Wizards keep away from out of a desire to keep secrets.
Even outside of those being arguably dangerous knowledge (being pre-Teclisean magic means it could always contain knowledge of Dark Magic) AFAIK, once Mathilde did stuff for them they supplied support. Not just books, but personnel etc. I also distinctly remember there being a mention that any Collegiate Wizard in good standing can borrow books from any of the 8 libraries.
Laurelorn also has a portal to the Aethyr under a lake. Presumably, one could source AV there. Or filter it out of the river, upstream of the waterfall they use to extract it as Winds.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Considering all of our findings are dependant on substance that only we can source at this point, i fail to see how this does not apply here either.
Has this been confirmed? Because i don´t recall that. The portal at the bottom of tarn of tears doesn´t leak AV, it leaks pure winds. The extraction of AV from dying Apparitions has been theorized but is entirely unconfirmed.
EDIT: So ok, Apparitions are a solid maybe that has a lot of bells and whistles but Tarn of Tears usually mentions already differentiated magic winds.
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Speaking of Chaos Dwarves and AV, in Total War Warhammer their story campaign revolves around obtaining a rare magical reagent called "The Blood of Hashut", which is mined from deep below the ground, and used in various Dark Arts.
When I saw the cutscene for the first time, I was like "holy fuck that's AV".
When I saw the cutscene for the first time, I was like "holy fuck that's AV".
They do 'bleed', but it's technically the magical energies they've made their 'flesh' out of losing cohesion and becoming a liquid in response to trauma. There's only so much that can be taken from one apparition before there's no flesh left or they take enough damage that they 'die' and their flesh unravels completely into energy again. What's special about the asp is that it's moving between reality and the aethyr, which means it's constantly pulling in new magical energy to replace that lost to damage without ever dying, and its method of doing so doesn't actually weaken the reality around it.
One major problem with harvesting it is that it's a volatile substance that detonates in the presence of magical energies or just if the reality around it isn't strong enough. That means you need to completely defeat an Aethyric creature in a way that doesn't involve magic and takes place far away from the usual rifts, rents, and rituals that let such beings enter reality. Apparitions are the most obvious candidate, because they don't throw around magics themselves and will travel far from wherever they entered reality from to pursue their preferred meal. It's also an open question whether the energies that would be bled by an aligned Chaos Daemon, or by a servitor of a God, would be inherently different in nature to AV.
It might also be technically possible to harvest it directly if you can somehow move energy from the aethyr into a high-reality area without it passing through a low-reality area or exposing that energy to magic.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
AKA: Tearing open a permanent warp rift. The safest and most reasonable option. Witch Hunters are big fans of this one.
That tends to create a low-reality area, because what you're tearing is reality.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I feel like it there should be reality reenforcing runes, but runesmiths doesn't seem to be a party to aethyr being summoning.
But if you can have a weak point surrounded by super strong points...
In fact the old ones might have made the polar gates for that specific purpose.
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Morbin' Curiosity
xamaplak
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE @SOUP?
- Location
- the Soup Store
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have a cunning plan. Let's delay both the book and the orbs until we get 5 more sets of power stones, and then? Then....
When he was informed that a Gyrocopter had landed in a seedy back alley, Algard ensured his latest and greatest test was prepared. Whatever she dumped on his lap this time, whether it be yet another Lost Dwarfhold that she tripped over while examining Waystones or Teclis himself with an entire barrel of milk, she would be at least equally shocked by this year's daemon-checker.
It took a few favors, but perhaps this would teach her to leave a written trail. Ulgu may be the Wind of tricksters, but at this point she could waltz in saying that she's become a Grey Dragon and gotten Cathay to expand Dragomas' non-aggression pact into a full-blown mutual defense pact and the only warning they'd have would be a short paper entitled "Dramatic Revelation: Gargantuan Notable Lizard Ulgu-Variety Real."
When she eventually sauntered into his office, he looked up from his stack of papers and raised an eyebrow, "Another full-blown Skaven civil-war?"
She gave him a small smile, "Not quite." Then she started rooting around in her pockets, and frowned. "Hold on," She said distractedly, "I'm sure I put them somewhere..."
As he watched in bemusement, she started pulling things from her pockets and piling them on his desk -- papers, quills, an Ulgu powerstone...
A slightly larger-than-average powerstone.
"Aha!" Mathilde said triumphantly, then groaned. "No, wrong one." An even larger powerstone joined the pile, then another one, then a diagram for some sort of fish-powered Waystone, and then a Ghyran powerstone, the largest powerstone yet, joined the pile.
Mathilde was frowning, and at this point the pile was getting ridiculous, and Algard knew exactly what she was doing. "Hold on," he said, "I think something rolled under the table."
He ducked under his desk, opened a thick lead-and-steel box, and quickly grabbed and threw its contents straight at Mathilde's head. It hit with a satisfying 'thunk', and the 'thunk' his own head received immediately after was worth it.
"Well played," Mathilde said, now holding two Hysh Orbs of Sorcery in her arms.
"It's morbin' time." Algard sternly rebuked.
Morbin' Curiosity
When he was informed that a Gyrocopter had landed in a seedy back alley, Algard ensured his latest and greatest test was prepared. Whatever she dumped on his lap this time, whether it be yet another Lost Dwarfhold that she tripped over while examining Waystones or Teclis himself with an entire barrel of milk, she would be at least equally shocked by this year's daemon-checker.
It took a few favors, but perhaps this would teach her to leave a written trail. Ulgu may be the Wind of tricksters, but at this point she could waltz in saying that she's become a Grey Dragon and gotten Cathay to expand Dragomas' non-aggression pact into a full-blown mutual defense pact and the only warning they'd have would be a short paper entitled "Dramatic Revelation: Gargantuan Notable Lizard Ulgu-Variety Real."
When she eventually sauntered into his office, he looked up from his stack of papers and raised an eyebrow, "Another full-blown Skaven civil-war?"
She gave him a small smile, "Not quite." Then she started rooting around in her pockets, and frowned. "Hold on," She said distractedly, "I'm sure I put them somewhere..."
As he watched in bemusement, she started pulling things from her pockets and piling them on his desk -- papers, quills, an Ulgu powerstone...
A slightly larger-than-average powerstone.
"Aha!" Mathilde said triumphantly, then groaned. "No, wrong one." An even larger powerstone joined the pile, then another one, then a diagram for some sort of fish-powered Waystone, and then a Ghyran powerstone, the largest powerstone yet, joined the pile.
Mathilde was frowning, and at this point the pile was getting ridiculous, and Algard knew exactly what she was doing. "Hold on," he said, "I think something rolled under the table."
He ducked under his desk, opened a thick lead-and-steel box, and quickly grabbed and threw its contents straight at Mathilde's head. It hit with a satisfying 'thunk', and the 'thunk' his own head received immediately after was worth it.
"Well played," Mathilde said, now holding two Hysh Orbs of Sorcery in her arms.
"It's morbin' time." Algard sternly rebuked.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Refusing to Elaborate Further
Mathilde: *Drops off a set of Orbs of Sorcery for each Wind to the collective heads of each College, a feat impossible twice over for a lack of knowledge about how to even create such an Orb, and for a lack of ability to manipulate the other seven Winds to even try to create Orbs for the rest of the set*
Mathilde: *Refuses to elaborate further*
Also Mathilde: *Leaves*
Algard: "RANAAAAAALD!"
Regimand: "Wait for it..."
Mathilde, one year later, to the heads of each College: "BOOK."
Heads of each College: "You did fucking what with a Wisdom's Asp?"
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
An Aethyric Scoop, maybe. Make a bubble of reinforced reality, like some kind of runic bathysphere. Lower it through a rift. Open it to fill with Aethyr, then close and retract. The Aether never touches the low-reality zone around the rift. No idea how to do any of this, of course. Ask an Old One.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It very much was more than just their notes, it was their wizards too. And those notes (as well as any other unrelated texts you'd find while looking for them) very much can constitute College Secrets (TM).
The Jades' way of moving around Dhar is absolutely something they don't want to get out, for instance. And Egrimm explicitly mentioned that in the Light Order's archives there's a lot of stuff that needs to be locked up further - they really wouldn't and shouldn't trust anyone outside their Order to look around just to eventually find the notes Jovi Sunscryer left behind.
That isn't the Colleges being selfish at all - back when we started the project, we in fact had no guarantee at all that we'd meet any success: individual Magisters and LMs have smashed their heads against this wall before.
The wizards we were lent (as well as all the other magic-users at the table) could be doing all sorts of things for their own nations in the time they spend in the Project. As such, it was really a matter of compensation. Hell, for this very reason, when we pitched the Project to LM Krammovich, we didn't say 'this could save the world', we say 'this would definitely help out relations with the Eonir and maybe get some more insight into the Nordland-Middenland troubles'.
Now that we've met more success, and hopefully will be able to get a working waystone prototype? Yes, I would hope that they would actively show more interest for this.
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