Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Abby Normal]

This is presumably in the hypothetical universe Mathilde started dating Cython.

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Somehow this lead to me thinking about the poor event planners in that AU, especially as mathilde becomes more well known...
"Do i insult the politically-and-personally powerful wizard lord with connections to [The empress/king belegar/whatever VIP we know is most impressive to the poor dwarf/human/elf/whatever doing the invitations for this high society event] by not giving her a plus one, or do i risk this being the time her dragon spouse decides they are actually interested in attending a [wedding/canal unveiling/mandred's birthday/whatever]?"

 

[French Cowboy]

It might also be technically possible to harvest it directly if you can somehow move energy from the aethyr into a high-reality area without it passing through a low-reality area or exposing that energy to magic.

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Do gods tend to make low reality areas when they effect things in mathilde's experience? Either through their followers or directly?

Man, I just went back to the start of the thread to look back on what Mathilde might have been in another life, and it's kinda hard to imagine how utterly different things could've gone. Maybe instead of unlocking the secrets of the Waystones and plumbing the depths of the Gray Wind as a Lady Magister we would've instead been Mathilde Weber, head of the best conglomerate of inns in all the Empire seeking to expand her stranglehold on the hotel business to distant Ulthuan

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Honestly I don't know if this story would have the longevity it has had without mathilde being able to wield some kind of magic. Maybe it would, Boney has shown themselves to be a very excellent and consistent author, but I think a lot of the best parts of this story involve the exploration of magic and the deeper mysteries of Malus.

 

[Shogeton]

Honestly, the way Dwarfs interact with their crafted goods also informs how they deal with people and themselves.

It has to be perfect. If there's a flaw, you didn't finish it and you need to work on it or toss it out like the garbage it is. There's no 'good enough'

And that's why if they are faced with themselves having a 'serious flaw' if they themselves are a cannon that has misfired, even if they could do a lot of good, they shave their hair and 'fix' it by going Slayer. And if someone has 'damaged them' caused an imperfection, than it has to be something that is worked on. Even if it's just going on a long list, even if it might never actually get done realistically, the fact that there's a 'bookkeeping' note helps things make sense. The 'flaw' is still in the world, but it's a recognized flaw, and it's on the list of things to fix.

 

[LockedMind]

It's a fundamental difference between the two mindsets. The Empire thinks that if a cannon fires ten cannonballs and then explodes and kills its four crew, but those ten cannonballs kill a giant and twenty Orcs that would otherwise have killed fifty soldiers, that's a no-brainer and they want fifty of them immediately. The Dwarves think that if a cannon ever explodes under normal conditions, that's an unforgivable failure. The Empire compares the cost to the benefit, the Dwarves are unable to accept someone else's life ever being a cost of their creation.

The Empire absolutely would prefer a non-exploding type of cannon, but they'll keep using the exploding kind until the day that is invented. The Dwarves give primacy to the engineer, who will not allow their inventions to endanger any life but their own, which amounts to an extremely rigid bottleneck on prototyping and field tests.

Which system is better? That depends on whether you're the cannon crew or the soldier.

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And for Skaven engineer exploding is a feature.

 

[Shogeton]

In some ways, skaven are probably to humans what humans are to dwarfs. Moving with such speed, careless of quality or danger to the wielder, as long as it does the thing, and acting with selfishness that ends up harming them as a race. (Except of course humans are friendlier to dwarfs than skaven to humans)

 

[Boney]

Do gods tend to make low reality areas when they effect things in mathilde's experience? Either through their followers or directly?

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Divine magic, direct godly intervention, and the more powerful divine artefacts do. Large amounts of simultaneous prayer can too, though it's an open question about whether that's the God being prayed to or just the cumulative effect of that many people directing their thoughts in that direction.

 

[Guisarme]

Which system is better? That depends on whether you're the cannon crew or the soldier.

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Or if you're the all important third option, a relatively vulnerable civilian in the general vicinity that will be slaughtered if they lose to evil. Dwarves don't have nearly as many of those with their holds, and when a cannon crews death could mean the survival of a town the society will form the carrots and sticks to make the human system win out.

 

[rocketroland999]

[ ] The Second Secret of Dhar teaches how to collapse it upon itself. Practice upon local Dhar taint, and very cautiously see if this works with Warpstone.
Getting better at banishing dhar seems handy since Druchii are chaos adjacent.

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Id rather not perform an action that would make us persona non grata if ever found out

 

[Wiggy]

I suppose he might be able to get in under the Air Bud rule if he's willing to make the right gestures in the direction of Asuryan.

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It *would* be pretty hilarious to have an adherent of the Ancestor Gods as champion of Asuryan, even if it's not a dwarf.

If as has been speculated about with a Elfcation started next turn I feel like that's pretty much every perennial white whale of the thread hit?

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Until @Omegahugger gets their glorious undead army we will always have one beautiful dream to aspire to.

Dragomas likely can't share his transformation though. Magic is finicky like that, especially human magic.

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Yeah, it *would* probably be hard for a dragon to teach somebody to stop being transformed into a human.

"Chance for someone to be a wizard? Hmmm. Nat 100 on a d100. That sounds good. No ill defined probability spaces here." - Boney, maybe.

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I wonder what a nat 1 would do on that roll? Does WHF have anything analogous to Blanks?

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Until @Omegahugger gets their glorious undead army we will always have one beautiful dream to aspire to.

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Haha, how could I have forgot. Too true.

 

[xamaplak]

I wonder what a nat 1 would do on that roll? Does WHF have anything analogous to Blanks?

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Runepriests

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

I wonder what a nat 1 would do on that roll? Does WHF have anything analogous to Blanks?

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For being analogous to the 'inborn and innate resistance to magic' thing of Blanks, anything that has the Resistance to Chaos talent is the closest thing. So mainly Halflings, and those few religious lunatics who are hopped up enough on faith and divine providence to survive until they are named as Scourges of their deity. There is also a specific 'magic immunity' mutation in Tome of Corruption.

Runesmiths still need specific Runes to actually dispel spells being cast, so I'm excluding them from this.

 

[Parabola]

And for Skaven engineer exploding is a feature.

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In some ways, skaven are probably to humans what humans are to dwarfs. Moving with such speed, careless of quality or danger to the wielder, as long as it does the thing, and acting with selfishness that ends up harming them as a race. (Except of course humans are friendlier to dwarfs than skaven to humans)

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Meanwhile, elves do almost no actual engineering for purposes of war - across the three elven factions in 8e, the only real non-magical war machines that they have are... what, Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers and Reaper Bolt Throwers? (Lothern Skycutters don't count, they only sometimes have compact bolt throwers, are classified as chariots and the archers themselves are only capable of staying afloat due to magic.)

I guess this also reflects elven mentality, in that they clearly prefer magical solutions over mundane ones where possible, prefer making pacts with (or enslaving) great animals, dragons and spirits, and in general seem to prefer not specializing in any one thing (and engineering very much is a specialist thing).

 

[fictionfan]

But Mathilde is an influential dawi, Randal said she is a dawi . There was even a council that declared she is a dawi. I am not saying it be easy but it can be done.

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She is famous and popular dawi.
But she is also a clanless one who is not member of any of the major guilds.
In theory, maybe it could be done, but for the same reason that we can't just buy a gryphon, i do not think we can buy an airship.
We are not going to get that much gold, ever, might as well buy a dreadnaught.
Because if dawi decide to build a massive flying thing, they are not going to just sell it for someones private use, they will use it for the defense of Karaz Ankor.

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In theory we could commission an airship so long as we could actually sell the idea that it was to the benefit of Karaz Ankor.

Like grudge against enemy [blank] can't currently be settled because we can't reach them this airship would allow us to reach them. Or if there was some other lost dwarf hold for us to go check up on.

 

[AlexScribler]

Man, I just went back to the start of the thread to look back on what Mathilde might have been in another life, and it's kinda hard to imagine how utterly different things could've gone. Maybe instead of unlocking the secrets of the Waystones and plumbing the depths of the Gray Wind as a Lady Magister we would've instead been Mathilde Weber, head of the best conglomerate of inns in all the Empire seeking to expand her stranglehold on the hotel business to distant Ulthuan.

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If we'd picked a different background than wizard it'd be Elector Mathilde Weber of Stirland, Sylvania, the Moot and lands South. Van Hal would almost certainly have preferred to put Stirland in our hands than risk it killing off his kids if we'd been eligible. I kind of like Branulhune better than a "measly" runefang though.

Or maybe Emperess Weber, first of her name, the Doom of Marienburg.

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

Or maybe Emperess Weber, first of her name, the Doom of Marienburg.

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Dunno if a non-Wizard Mathilde Weber would really have the same level of enmity for Marienburg. I mean, I'm pretty sure Mathilde's initial dislike of Marienburg started as 'the nerve of those bastards, to deny me access to their B O O K S just because I'm imperial'.

 

[French Cowboy]

Dunno if a non-Wizard Mathilde Weber would really have the same level of enmity for Marienburg. I mean, I'm pretty sure Mathilde's initial dislike of Marienburg started as 'the nerve of those bastards, to deny me access to their B O O K S just because I'm imperial'.

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That and the fact that their existence is the fault of Dieter IV, whose legacy she wants to wipe out in its totality.

 

[Jakobstj]

The dawi in the past designed and built them. Them being dawi I assume they have blueprints still. Than there is also cannon in which a slayer engineer designed and built it with the financial backing of one rich dawi merchant. Not saying it will not be difficult but money and will can make it happen

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The issue is that a crucial piece of infrastructure for making them is no longer functional at all... until the Karak-Waystone network gets expanded to have more power. So really, if we for whatever reason want an airship, step 1 will be to make more Waystone.

The Gas-Forge of Morgrim, lost, and with it the airships that were once held aloft by the airs it created.

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[JayTar]

Has there been much discussion about AV in regards to rituals? I can't imagine it hasn't been suggested, but I am curious.

Rituals are magic, but they aren't precisely wind magic right? So what exactly would happen if the energies involved came in contact with AV? (Yes it would almost certainly end very badly for any ritual not designed for it, but aren't you curious?)

Alternatively could a ritual be a solution to the "how to get more AV" problem? Trying to generate AV out of nothing would of course be bad idea. (And I vaguely recall a humorous/horrifying description for the failure state of a ritual to make another snake box)
But what if you already have a sample?
Imagine a ritual that starts with a small sample of AV say, and then slowly "grows" it somehow. Perhaps by feeding the existing sample somehow? Mess with things so instead of the AV transforming into whatever it touches the reverse happens? Or by using it as a template somehow?
The failure state could be as simple as "You lose your existing sample of AV" (Likely explosively). Assuming a small enough starting sample it should be perfectly survivable.

Basically make a double-or-nothing ritual for AV. As long as someone has the skill to cast it with more them 50% chance of it working, and the failure state is sufficiently survivable, it could be used to produce AV.

... Not that I am suggesting we experiment with making any such ritual. Leave it to a wizard that doesn't have an international research project resting on their continued survival. But it is interesting to consider what might pop up after we publish our book.

 

[DragonParadox]

It's a fundamental difference between the two mindsets. The Empire thinks that if a cannon fires ten cannonballs and then explodes and kills its four crew, but those ten cannonballs kill a giant and twenty Orcs that would otherwise have killed fifty soldiers, that's a no-brainer and they want fifty of them immediately. The Dwarves think that if a cannon ever explodes under normal conditions, that's an unforgivable failure. The Empire compares the cost to the benefit, the Dwarves are unable to accept someone else's life ever being a cost of their creation.

The Empire absolutely would prefer a non-exploding type of cannon, but they'll keep using the exploding kind until the day that is invented. The Dwarves give primacy to the engineer, who will not allow their inventions to endanger any life but their own, which amounts to an extremely rigid bottleneck on prototyping and field tests.

Which system is better? That depends on whether you're the cannon crew or the soldier.

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It also depends on how your demographics look like and how long it takes you to train specialists. In that sense too the dwarfs' system makes more sense for the dwarfs. The Empire on the other hand can always find more canon-fodder, literal or otherwise.

Humanity, the Skaven of Order.

 

[Wiggy]

Would the ogre kingdoms count as an order faction?

 

[DragonParadox]

Would the ogre kingdoms count as an order faction?

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No, they routinely ally with anyone who will feed them

 

[NavySeel]

Would the ogre kingdoms count as an order faction?

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They and the tomb kings were always counted as neutral in the whole chaos/disorder vs order thing.
Basically you can find Ogres fighting against/for anyone if it will result in them getting paid/fed, and the tomb kings hate everyone, but also aren't Chaos or a force of Disorder the way that the Orcs are.

 

[The Phoenixian]

Spend the Orb credit and both great deeds on changing the names of the colleges. Going forwards, they're now officially:

	College of...
Gold	Metal
Amber	Animals
Light	Truth
Bright	Heat
Grey	Illusion
Jade	Life
Amethyst	Death
Celestial	Empyrean

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Took me a moment, well done.

Whoever suggested "Mathilde" as the character name deserves an award, we've got many jokes out of it.

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It's moments like this that have me picturing an corrupted or Everchosen!Mathilde

Proud servant of the Four, arguing with Mathilde: With power like that you could conquer the world not spend all your time an energy putting your name on everything from here to the moons.
Villain!Mathilde: But I don't want to conquer the world, I want to write my name on the moons.

 

[pucflek]

That isn't the Colleges being selfish at all - back when we started the project, we in fact had no guarantee at all that we'd meet any success: individual Magisters and LMs have smashed their heads against this wall before.

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Thats kinda not the point thought. Mathilde did manage to convince Mira to lend her Egrimm without any real commitment, but that letter she wrote should´ve been everything the colleges needed to lend their help, really.

I understand why they wanted something for their contribution, but that doesn´t change the fact that they weighed the pros and cons and decided that they would like helping some of their problems first before actually getting off their chair.

But they are quite clearly capable of their own self interest, and while that self interest still does good for someone, it was political as well. There is nothing that says that Paranoth is right to push for full secularism or that Alric is so bad that he never deserves the chance to lead again.

Compared to that, keeping the secret of how we made Morbs for personal amusement may be petty, but its counter balanced by the fact that the knowledge, if released, is kind of useless, because the wonder fuel for their creation has 1(one) alternative method of gathering that is incredibly tedious and probably doesn´t have very high yields and the Morbs, while symbol of absolute rad status aren´t actually all that important. And we are releasing it anyway like the turn after (or however long it takes to make the book really good). So on the balance not much is happening.

But thats a post fact justification tbh. I just find the particular way to hand them over instantly with the guide book to be unsatisfying so i am arguing for staggered approach and structuring my argument around that. I still prefer the handing over with the guide book over handing them over instantly with just how to make them and then submitting the rest, because the Morbs are literally the least of our discoveries with Aethyric vitae.

We made absolutely staggering discoveries about the nature of reality and winds of which the creation of morbs is just... an incredibly dull practical application of the least of amazing theoretical knowledge. Mathilde is literally about to write a book that could be up there with Puchta´s treatise of what winds are and such. One of those tomes that every self respecting mages brags they have in their personal library. ITs not going to be anywhere near as sizeable and encompassing, but, you know.